So, the location is great, the price is amazing, orientation to the sun good -- garage can face north, main rooms south ... but the frontage. What about this miniscule frontage?

On the one hand, we aren't crazy about yard maintenance, and I can imagine this space with no grass, just driveway and natural areas.

See that white dogwood? It's our state tree and my favorite tree.

But ... are we going to have enough space for a driveway, a mailbox, and space to put out the trash on Fridays? The house would sit somewhat "back" from the road, I imagine. I did the math with the setbacks -- no problems there. I don't love the electrical -- what is it? A pillar? But it is off to the side of the lot.

Obviously, this house has no on-street parking, but we would consider extra guest parking as a part of our landscaping.

Something just occurred to me: We currently live on a corner, and we don't love it. We have so much ditch to mow, and kids cut through our yard because our corner is a bus stop. Our current yard is fairly public. This one is quite the opposite.

I'm concerned that the neighbors, whose houses were built years ago, think of this empty space as "theirs", and I'm nervous about creating conflict because adding a driveway and entry here would "push them" back towards their own areas.

Thoughts?

Looks as if the 'front yard' will be running a gauntlet between the 2 neighboring houses - that's assuming you can build far enough back to actually site a house for some privacy. The pictures are beautiful, the creek had me at hello - what's the actual size of the lot?

I think you know why the price is amazing.

I would not immediately disregard it... but I'd keep looking. Can you post actual lot dimensions? And, if you were to build, could you keep some privacy trees up between them and you, without impacting what you want to do?

Geeze, only 85 feet wide! I'd have to walk in there sideways And no room for my tractor and tandem trailer rig.

***

My first home, built in the 1880s, was on a 15'x125' lot, a 20 minute walk from the centre of the city. Looks worse now then when I owned it, yet it's worth close to $1 m. You absolutely want more space, open the purse wider.

I love our five house cul de sac, especially as three of them are heading for demolition next spring.

I live on a pie-shaped cul-de-sac lot with only 50' at the road, but it looks nothing like the scenario here. All homes are set back at least 150' from the street, and trees were left up in the front and side yards. There is plenty of comfortable space between driveways, mailboxes, and landscaping. Our property is over 5 acres, but that doesn't change the fact that our road frontage is less than this lot is supposed to have. In these images, it does not appear, visually, that the neighbors have kept to their covenants and borders, online images can be misleading but I have a hard time seeing the 85' in this situation. If the neighbors have encroached, yes there are likely to be neighbor issues. This issue isn't whether you can "make do," as you might if you received this lot as an inheritance. It's whether you would choose this lot for your dream home.

Looks like the neighbors to the right have a shed for their RV. Do you want to look at that? When you site your house, will the front be facing their garage and driveway? Looks like it. But you could put your garage on that side.

On the other hand...a creek. I love a creek.

on the third hand, you are below the neighbors to the left. What is the drainage like?

Too many issues, too many things to work out and get around. I think you need to keep looking.

Go check with the city or county to determine the flood plane line of that creek. It could easily gobble up the back portion of that lot.

I had a similar pie shaped lot and was over it pretty quick after I got some lame neighbors building next to me.

The lot I'm building on now is 1.4 acre and 190' up front...just love it.

By the way from the satellite image with the car and driveway shown its impossible that you have 85' at the street. Maybe 60'. Why is the driveway and the other house so close to the assumed property line? I'd keep looking on that alone.

I agree that the neighbor would think you were rude if you asked them to move their lamp/pot/planter......but....they seem to respect the side boundry, I understand there should be a 15' leeway but its not "on" the lot your considering. I'd buy it it.....I like a DEAL.

Running a gauntlet -- yes, that's a good term. But the problem is only at the entry.

I didn't give the dimensions? Oops, I thought I did. 3/4 acre total, so not big, but big enough for 1800 sf. 85' at the street ... the sides are unequal, one 217 and the other 324 ... and the back is 258. I did the math with the setbacks ... plenty of space.

Here's a sketch-up that I made myself with the anticipated site spot. Don't take the siting too seriously -- this is something I knocked out in Word, and it's just an estimated "place holder" assuming house + garage slightly to the front, which seems appropriate for this lot. Most of the houses in this neighborhood have a "courtyard style" garage.

So, we'd have "a buffer" on both sides of the house -- trees to the left, garage to the right.

I can't answer questions about drainage and flood plain -- the real estate agent tells me the flood plain is a small bit of the lower end of the lot (what else would she say?), and she's promised to email me the flood plain information. She did email the covenants right away, so I look forward to her following through with that information.

Yes, the creek. Oh, the creek.

Thanks for your initial thoughts. I really think this lot would be ideal ... if not for the spot where the lot meets the street.

It appears the one neighbor has increased his side yard / frontage a bit encroaching on your frontage. I am sure once you out your driveway in there he's back off - probably just a natural progression of mowing.

I am a little concerned about the siting of your house - what will your views look like / how far back can you put the house? And - what kind of riparian buffers do you need with the creek?

Neighborhood looks nice - I would not count this out at all.

I am in Wake County - where are you?

ETA - who cares about the street frontage - that's the beauty of the cul de sac - you get to nestle back aways...

The "natural encroaching" thing had occurred to me. Mowing just a little more, no one lives on that spot anyway, what's the damage? Honestly, if I lived on the left, I would walk over the empty lot to go to the creek ... but once people moved in, I'd stop doing it immediately, and I'd say, "It was nice while it lasted.". I'm thinking of going back over and knocking on the door to meet the people on each side.

"View" is a strong term for this lot. The left side is more heavily wooded, and the creek is to the back. With no professional help, I don't know that the site is right -- it seems to me that I'd want the garage on the North side, plus it blocks the drive /garage on the right.

Riparian buffers?

We're about two hours west of you. Stanly. Not the better known Stanley.

Ah, I didn't know the term Riparian barriers -- and that makes sense, but it doesn't apply in this case: This neighborhood is served by city water and sewer.

Yes, you're right about the drainage from the left lot.

I do think you're onto something when you point out that the 85' is the red line, not the actual spot where you could have one foot on asphalt and the other foot on grass.

If we decide we're serious about this lot, we'll get a survey done ... and then, with evidence in hand, talk to the people about the space they're using. But I wouldn't want that to be my first-ever conversation with them.

As for chicken processing plants, etc., I know this area well, so I know what's in the surrounding area -- I grew up here, and my family has lived on the same plot of land since before America was America. My farm is about 10 minutes down the road.

I think if you get this lot, you might want to consider engaging an architect because of the pie shape to get the best of the views, etc.

Any other comments have been said already. I would definitely check flood zone, etc. I mean look at all those poor people who weren't in flood zones in LA and now are trying to dry out. :(

Re the mailbox, perhaps the two houses can have two mailboxes on a shared post between the driveways.

Regarding the neighbors, I'd research them online. In addition to what they say if you chat with them in person, a semi-public Facebook profile might tell you a lot about their personalities (and hobbies - shootin' guns, four-wheelin', etc.). Plus, if an arrest record or something of that nature shows up, better to know now . . . .

Assuming that you're in Stanly County, they have a GIS site on-line. I would look closely at the topography and flood plains. When we looked at land (down the road a piece in SC), we wanted a creek, but everything with a creek was in some form of flood plain. It seems like we're having '500 year' floods all of the time now, with many people saying, "We've never had this kind of flooding before." Maybe I'm a worry wart, but we ended up on top of a ridge, a couple hundred feet above any kind of water.

As for that lot, I'd have to pull a tape to believe that there's 85' of frontage, unless the road easement is a long ways back. I think it will look rather crowded once a driveway is put in. With the house pushed well back, it should be fairly private, though.

The neighbor on your right, when facing your lot, did a jerky thing by placing the driveway exactly on the property line. If you want privacy, you have to plant trees entirely on your side of the property line. This effectively makes your lot smaller (and therefore worth fewer dollars per acre) and the neighbor's lot larger.

Now, maybe that neighbor had to do that, because their lot looks even narrower than yours. But a neighbor who does one jerky thing is likely to do more jerky things. Having good neighbors makes all the difference in the world and I would be very cautious here.

Another thought:. You say that your garage can face North. But if the maps are oriented such that North is up, then don't the neighbors on each side have garages to the South? Do you want to be the oddball house that has the garage on the "wrong" side, with your driveway along side the neighbor's driveway to the right?

Use the GIS site and topography. The buffers will stand whether or not you are on city water / sewer - it's about protecting the waterways. You can turn on and off layers on the county GIS site and see where there are buffers, restrictions, easements, flood plains... and you MAY find that the build able area isn't what you thought it was.

From my discussions with the local building code folks - setbacks refer to structures, (i.e. above ground) and not paving.

I'm checking on the flood plain thing, but I don't know that information at this moment. Yes, I'm onto the 100 year flood /500 year flood thing, and I wouldn't tempt fate.

I like the two-mailbox thing.

I did some internet snooping on the neighbors yesterday, and I did learn some things -- nothing bad, but some family connections between the lots became apparent. As for the neighbor with the long driveway -- yeah, not the nicest thing to do, but what were her other options on a pie-shaped lot? -- her house is for sale, so I assume she won't be around long. The house is in a woman's name only, yet it's something like 4000 sf; I suspect either divorce or death is leading her to sell this large house.

North vs. South garages ... I don't know about that, but I've determined to take my dog on a long walk today, and we'll walk up every cul-de-sac and inspect the driveways. With the position of this lot, all other considerations aside, it seems "logical" that the driveway would fall on the North naturally. This would mean that you'd see the house before you'd see the garage.

I tried to look at cul-de-sac driveways online, but all I could find was short driveways. That's easy to figure out -- this would be, forced by the lot layouts -- have to be a moderately long driveway. Most of what I found is information about laying out streets in a subdivision -- interesting, but not pertinent to my query, given that I would control only one small spot in the whole area.

That shed still bothers me. If the house is for sale, find out how permanent the shed is. Some buyer may find it's the perfect place to keep their vintage cars they want to work on every weekend.

The garage facing your house, and pretty close, bothers me, too. You did say you'd have your garage on that side, but depending on how your house is sited further you can hear them working in the garage.

Here's a thought: if that house is for sale, have you considered it?

Three thoughts:

Garages are generally on the uphill side of the house around here. I think because it avoids having to bring in a lot of fill. Sounded like you were planning your garage on the down hill side. Something to explore.

The more expensive a house you are building the more important the quality of the lot to resale. So the impact of the trade off on the lot depends to some degree whether your home will be at the bottom/middle/top of the price range for the surrounding area.

If I could assure myself that the my home would be nicely buffered from my two neighbors ... I would not care what the driveway entrance looked like.

There's no shed. Something may've been parked in that spot when the picture was made, but there's no shed -- or, perhaps it was one of those "pod things" that people use when they're moving -- that makes sense to me...

Yes, garages are typically built on the upside of a lot (to avoid bringing in expensive fill dirt), but in this particular lot, the slope exists at the road ... and then flattens out towards the middle, where we'd build the house, so the topography doesn't suggest that the garage "should" go in any one place. Without having consulted the pros yet, my thought is that the garage should go to the North, leaving the living areas towards the South.

If we choose this lot, our house would be "low end" for the neighborhood ... while the lot is 3/4 acres on a cul-de-sac surrounded by mostly 1/2 acre lots. The neighborhood requires all brick construction and at least 1700 sf. In actuality, the average house in this neighborhood is 3000-4000. We are building about 1800-1900 sf. My expectation is that IF we ever resell (which isn't our plan, but, well, we all know about plans), we'd have the smallest house on the largest lot. I think we could resell.

An oddity on this neighborhood: The real estate agent says this is a neighborhood that "never took off". This area in general is booming for several reasons: The area is historically farmland, but the main road through the middle of things has now been four-laned, essentially bringing the big city (which is an hour away) a little closer ... and a whole lot of people are able to work from home at least part-time ... and the city is going downhill fast in terms of crime and bad schools. So a lot of people are moving out our direction, but most people are stopping on the other end of the county, while this neighborhood is seen by the city people as "a little too far". So the agent tells me it's essentially locals who are buying this neighborhood, and most locals are like me -- they already own land elsewhere.

I've developed a theory on why this lot is for sale now. Internet snooping tells me that the left-side neighbor's house is owned by Persons A, B and C. Person C alone owns the empty lot I'm considering, and Person C "guaranteed" the deed for the left-side house. A few other tidbits make me think Person C is the daughter's Dad. He bought a lot adjacent to the kids, perhaps intending to build next to them ... but now has changed his mind. If I'm right, this also means Person C may be fussy about who buys the lot, since that person would become his daughter's neighbor /perhaps be near his grandchildren.

The 85' referred to by the realtor is where the dotted purple line is below, yes? Using the car in the driveway next door as a measure, it looks like the frontage is slightly less than two car lengths. (That's a mighty long car if that's 85'!) Based on where the lines are, it's possible that the lamp etc. are on the edge of the neighbor's lot (if those lines are accurate.) But you might still have some issues with utility lines.

It looks like a very nice lot but I understand your hesitation. I'd want to start with a survey to show me the real lot lines, some of those flags that the utility companies place to show where you can't dig (at least that's what they do here), and then use one of those measuring wheels that lets you measure a long and/or curved space. (If you don't have one yet you may find it handy regardless of the lot you choose, for laying out a driveway, your walls, etc.) It will cost a few hundred for all of the above, but could help make a decision, and you'd want a survey prior to building anyway I'd think.

We had a similar quandry when we chose our cul-de-sac lot. It's the center of 3 lots in an existing subdivision from the late 80's, one of several lots held for many years by one of the neighbors because they thought their kids would build here. Fast forward 25 years, and it never happened so they sold them off. When we looked at the survey, we found that the neighbors to our right had built pretty close to our property line. Sometime after the initial build, they had widened the driveway just a bit, and we found that a small portion of the widening actually juts out onto our property by about a foot. Their mailbox was also built on our side of the line (although as mentioned above, that is actually city-owned property next to the street). We approached them and were lucky to develop a good relationship. We told them we would like to tear down their mailbox and build a nice double brick one--they offered to pay half the cost and did. We forgave the small piece of concrete on our property. We could have certainly asked them to remove it, but what would the point be? Wherever the actual property line is, we don't plan to use that part of our yard because it's so close to their house. The original owners have since sold, and we filled in the new owners on our first meeting, just so they knew. Bottom line--we love it here, don't mind the neighbors close because that's all I've ever known, we live on the private back porch more than the front yard anyway, and we have found that being friendly with the neighbors trumps 2 square feet of property.

Chellefnp, you are so fortunate to have nice neighbors and to be nice to your neighbors. You will need to resolve the property line, though, perhaps by selling them a small easement. Future buyers will have trouble with the survey. (And remember, you are paying the taxes on their foot of driveway.) and so will whoever wants to replace the driveway in the future.

The house I grew up in is going to be sold and demolished, but things delayed because of easement issues from 30 years before the house was even built.

Yes, what's needed for review is a surveyor-created plat map, with property lines, bearings and dimensions, setbacks, easements, flood plain and all other official items pertaining to the property. That should already be easily available at the county clerk's office where the deed has previously been recorded, and perhaps at some other public offices. The local abstract company should know how to obtain such a map, as should the realtor.

As to the 85-foot dimension on the cul-de-sac, dimensions on a radius are typically taken along the radius line, making them longer that a straight line, point-to-point, across the radius. Looking at the aerial photo above, however, the radius dimension of the developed property above the property of interest appears to be less than that of the property of interest. That property had sufficient room for an access drive, so certainly the property of interest will also be able to support a reasonable drive.

The most important question is what is the buildable envelope for a house in the mid-section area of the property, outside the flood plain line? The location of the two adjacent houses suggests a significant front yard setback line.

The mass of existing trees, if left intact, appears to guarantee privacy from the cul-de-sac, and perhaps from the neighboring house below the property of interest. Such a large growth of trees, however, also means filtered sunlight at best, and a challenge for the growth of exterior landscaping and for useful interior natural light.

Very careful site analysis and site planning will be required before designing a house for this property with these unique characteristics. Unless of course, one turns loose the sub-division tree butchers with their giant excavators, who will fell and remove all the trees, which appears to be the norm for at least the house below the property of interest.

I would definitely look elsewhere. You are not desperate, are you?

Initially, I really like it. I do not like to border water, however- I've seen too much flooding. I would also like to see the plats, and possible speak to the (Hoa? city?) about the neighbors encroachment before I was sold on it.

The lot is lovely and I really like the creek. As stated, check flood plains, but the mere proximity to the creek doesn't necessarily mean there is an issue,. For example we have no flood plain issue even though our building envelope is very close to a mountain creek -- the other side of the creek is lower and does have some issues though,. The one advantage of a pie shaped lot is more privacy out back,

Remember, like any real estate the cardinal rules are location, location, location and that grows even more important as we age, Really, really think hard about location for a retirement home. Proximity to services, for seniors. medical, your church if that is important to you, groceries and shopping. My now blind mother (age related macular degeneration) lives 30 miles from the nearest medical services and even pharmacy and life is becoming increasingly difficult especially as she ages and needs more and more services.

My bet is that the subdivision never took off and the land price is so low is probably a function of a difficult location. Having commuted to a city 40 minutes away for the last 26 years, an hour is simply too far for necessities -- maybe a fun shopping trip.

We have owned a couple cul-de-sac homes and they usually are given variances due to the driveway issues they create.

I would walk, if it were me. The lot is amazing, but would drive me nuts being crammed in between two homes like that.

Even if.. IF.. you had a legitimate beef about them being on the line... imagine living next to someone that you tried to push said issue.

Not worth it.

If it bothers you, walk.

If you really like them and it is not an issue, then chalk it up as an easy access to visit good friends.

R

I'd talk to the woman who has the driveway right on the property line before I did anything else.

I'd walk up, ring her doorbell, and say I'm considering buying that lot for sale - what can you tell me about the neighborhood?

You will learn what her temperament is like just on that friendly action alone!

FWIW, I live on a cul de sac and I absolutely love it. And I even have a small creek bordering my backyard. You will certainly want to know how much that creek swells when it rains, but if you are lucky it will be like mine and be a non-issue.

My driveway is basically right on my property line too. I love the neighbors in the next lot over, we get along fine. Many of the houses in my subdivision have driveways right on the property lines, and again, it's basically a non-issue here.

From where I sit, that property looks lovely. Nice trees, nicely maintained homes - I wouldn't give up on it if I were you. But I'm not you (ha, stating the obvious :) ) and I have no idea what else may be for sale near you that maybe you'd like better.

Using the car in the driveway next door as a measure, it
looks like the frontage is slightly less than two car lengths.

An excellent experiment -- it clearly proves what we all suspected; that front line may be mistakenly labeled as 85'.

Yes to the idea of a professional survey ... but not before I've made a preliminary decision about whether we are really interested in the property.

we have
found that being friendly with the neighbors trumps 2 square feet of
property.

Yeah, I'm definitely inclined that way. IF this comes to pass, I'll definitely address things in a civil manner. I'm not "that neighbor". The most important question is what is the buildable envelope for a
house in the mid-section area of the property, outside the flood plain
line? The location of the two adjacent houses suggests a significant
front yard setback line.

Setbacks:

So the envelope is something like this -- again, this is without any help from a pro, just having "walked it" once and internet-snooped it over the weekend. The front setback does seem quite large to me, but it suits this piece of property since the front is sloped (the high point being marked with the star ... whereas the middle portion is nice and flat, perfect for building.

Please check my math!

I received the flood plain information from
the listing agent this morning in my email, and it isn't an issue:
Apparently the land continues to slope downward towards the lots on the
other side of the creek, so they're the ones who must deal with flood
issues -- the 40 feet required at the back of the lot seems to be enough for safety ... regardless, the house we're going to build
won't come close to that point. We're looking at a house roughly 40-ish feet deep, so we could have 100' or more between us and the creek. I'm thinking the house itself will fit easily; a monster like the 4000 sf house next door would be a challenge.
I'm
thinking that the driveway is the most challenging part of the
project. I'm anticipating it'd be set where I placed the arrow.

Such a large growth of trees, however,
also means filtered sunlight at best, and a challenge for the growth of
exterior landscaping and for useful interior natural light.

I think the mature trees are one of the best features of the property. Some would have to go, of course, but it would remain a heavily shaded property, and that would affect landscaping choices.

I would definitely look elsewhere. You are not desperate, are you?

No, nowhere near desperate.

I would also like to see the plats, and possible speak
to the (Hoa? city?) about the neighbors encroachment before I was sold
on it.

No HOA to speak to, not in a city. I am going to call the developer -- I don't know how much good that'll do, but I have a few other Qs for him anyway. The neighbor with the long driveway has her house for sale, so not much point in getting chummy with her.

The one
advantage of a pie shaped lot is more privacy out back.

Yes, and with the trees and slope in front, this would be quite a private spot.

Remember, like any real estate the cardinal rules are location,
location, location and that grows even more important as we age,
Really, really think hard about location for a retirement home.
Proximity to services, for seniors. medical, your church if that is
important to youmany, groceries and shopping.

I'm from this area, so I know the services well -- no shortage of shopping, churches, etc. What we don't have is fast food and chain restaurants; yeah, we're a quirky place. I'm not unusual in that my family has lived in this area since before the Revolutionary War, and this county has the highest savings per capita of any county in NC -- but you wouldn't know it to look at us. But I digress ... as for medical, a new emergency room satellite has just been built 10 minutes down the road. We have a small hospital (which I don't like) 20 minutes to the east, a regional medical center 30 minutes to the north, and the biggest hospital in the state (where my daughter is a nurse) an hour to the west. Excellent services for the elderly, which my grandmother used: home health, Meals on Wheels, two senior centers, transportation for the disabled.

No, I think the real estate agent hit the nail on the head when she said that this neighborhood is beyond the point that "the city folks" consider an acceptable commute, and that's why they aren't buying. The town to the west (the one to which "city folk" are attracted because it's literally the first spot over the county line) is experiencing an absolute onslaught of quick-houses-on .2 acre lots, and they're selling like hotcakes. This neighborhood is "between towns", kind of in no-man's land ... but it's on the major thoroughfare that connects the big city and a medium-sized town. I wouldn't like to be on the front edge of the neighborhood /on a four-land highway, but this lot is literally at the very back of the neighborhood. I also think some of the neighborhood covenants are unappealing to the local folks: No livestock, for example; that knocks out all the people who are devoted to 4H and want their kids to raise chickens or a goat. No trailers knocks out a bunch of people too.
This would increase our commute to about 30 minutes, and it'd mean my husband couldn't come home for lunch anymore (he would definitely miss that); however, if we could own the land this afternoon and moved fast on scheduling a builder, we wouldn't be able to move in for a year ... and we don't want to move until our youngest finishes at the community college and goes on to university. And that puts us at retirement -- we will be retiring young; it's possible that we'd make this commute for a year. Being properly placed for retirement outweighs a short-term commute increase.

I appreciate that y'all're making me think of topics I should consider. At this point, I'd say I'm interested enough to pursue more information -- and I think the driveway is the biggest issue of concern.

But I digress ... as for medical, a new emergency room satellite has just been built 10 minutes down the road. We have a small hospital (which I don't like) 20 minutes to the east, a regional medical center 30 minutes to the north, and the biggest hospital in the state (where my daughter is a nurse) an hour to the west. Excellent services for the elderly, which my grandmother used: home health, Meals on Wheels, two senior centers, transportation for the disabled.

To me the major hospital would be too far away.

My sister lives about 1 hour drive SW of Asheville, near the SC border. Just over a month ago, her SO was out using the weed whacker when he hit a yellow jacket nest. He was stung probably 20x and started immediately to have breathing problems. Thankfully my sister was home, threw him in the car and drove him 5 minutes to the small, crappy hospital 5 minutes down the road. They got him stabilized, had to intubate him and then sent him up to Mission in Asheville. So my sister was commuting back and forth to Mission for a few days.

As I age, I don't want to be that far from a major hospital for many reasons.

There is no HOA, but there is an Architectural Review Committee? Unusual. I would want to know who sits on the ARC and whether they only approve where you site your home or whether they also have a role in reviewing your home plans and elevations.

I'm late to this thread and this might have already been stated, but don't trust Google maps when it comes to property lines. Use your town's MuniMapper instead.

Here is my land as comparison:

MuniMapper screenshot, which is correct and exactly what the plot plan looks like from the town. My property is outlined in blue.

And this is what the area looks like in Google maps. It does not have an outline of my property at all since I assume it hasn't been updated.

To me the major hospital would be too far away.

I'm fine with an emergency room 10 minutes away and a major hospital 30 minutes away.

There is no HOA, but there is an Architectural Review Committee?
Unusual. I would want to know who sits on the ARC and whether they only
approve where you site your home or whether they also have a role in
reviewing your home plans and elevations.

I agree that it's unusual. I intended to call the developer today, but I didn't get around to it. What I understand from reading the covenants and talking to the real estate agent is that the developer essentially IS the review committee. I have a couple questions for them about what will /won't be approved because although my intended house meets their requirements, but we all know that there's the rule ... and then there's what actually happens -- and I intend to build a house smaller than the average house in this neighborhood. I want to talk to them personally and get a feel for the approval process. That's a big question mark.

but don't trust Google maps when it comes to property lines.

Good point, though Google maps do match the county GIS maps. I just googled muni-mapper and came up empty for my area. Tomorrow should be an easy day for me at work, and I'm going to investigate further.