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hummersteve

More thoughts on Worm Factory 360

hummersteve
7 years ago

When I first purchased mine 3-4 yrs ago there was an option for extra bedding or an extra tray and I took the latter. That gave me 5 trays, but for the most part I just used 3 trays in the rotation and used a 4 th tray with just shredded paper as a blocker for fruit flies. I recently switched and decided to use all 5 trays in the rotation. Since worms police themselves as far as reproduction goes they should now expand having much more room to do so. Im also guessing that I will be able to harvest more trays quicker because of the expansion. It may take 6months before I notice that much of a change but currently there are worms in all 5 trays and it will be up to me to keep them fed and happy. In my opinion for anyone who is serious about getting started and producing a decent amount of vermicompost the worm factory 360 is the way to go. The 360 has the "worm ladder" which is made in such a way that allows worms to easily get back into the above tray. When I check the drainage tray I will see a few worms there but not many and unless Im ready to harvest I dont bother the worms there. I will mention here that I keep mine inside as I have a 6' square walk-in closet which works well for me. This works well for me as I dont want a slowdown I want the worms to keep working 24/7. My intentions are to use the vermicompost in spring planting. I have also used homemade bins side by side with the 360 but have had some problems with the homemade one that I dont have with the 360. Never seem to have a problem with the 360. The only problem if you wish to call it that is when you first order your worms and settling them in , but the system does come with a very nice booklet guide which gives all kinds of info on how to proceed. Some people complain about the drainage in the bottom bin somthing which I have never had to deal with, but there is a relief valve made into the system for that purpose.

Comments (32)

  • theparsley
    7 years ago

    The regular WF has the worm ladder now, too. I bought my WF this past March and it has the ladder. I don't know when that change was made, but I guess they decided to make it standard. As far as I can tell, the only real difference now between the regular WF and the 360 is the domed lid.

    With so many trays stacked up, do you find that the material in the lower trays gets very compressed over time?

  • hummersteve
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Thats good news - adding the worm ladder to the regular WF. The reason for the domed lid is said to be for better aeration. As for the depression even with just one tray above there would be that, but it doesnt seem to be a problem for the worms as they do what they do.

    Another advantage to having a productive multi-tray system is when worms procreate leaving cocoons in the upper trays it gives those time to hatch and by the time the upper tray becomes the harvest tray you wont have to worry about losing any worms via cocoons. Things are working out so well now in my WF that when I harvest there are only a few worms in the harvest tray and I dont even bother to separate them and I have no problem letting those few worms go into my holding containers which are 5 gal buckets with loose fitting covers. Those few worms can still work on the finished vermicompost and I keep these in my garage out of direct sun. Also I noticed today there are a good amount of worms already in my 5th/feeding/top tray . On occasion as I did today I remove the trays to check on the progress sometimes 2 at time to not disturb them as much, some singly. In the middle trays I notice some debris as shredded paper which is as it should be . As long as there is food/organic material to work there will be worms there , then they move up to where more food can be had, thus the rotation of the 360 working as its meant to .

    For what its worth to anyone especially new wormers, I stock up feeding material and save in ziplock bags then when its time to process I run the mix thru my big mouth juicer making sort of a worm chow if you will. Also when I harvest as a helper I made this 2x4 frame with 1/4" hardware cloth to use as sieve and make the castings smaller more even particles. Mine measures 30" x 24" and I just lay it on top of my wheelbarrow, you can make yours any size but this size works for me. As you can see it is well used.






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  • hummersteve
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Im sure there is a certain amount of compression but it doenst harm the process. In a recent check Im noticing the bottom/harvest castings are more defined already than before just using a 3 tray rotation. In this system Im into the thousands of worms and no longer even thinking about a count but Im sure I was holding the system down by only giving them 3 trays . My thoughts are too take a harvest every 2-3 weeks. Too soon you say. Look at it this way , in a 5 tray rotation by the time the top tray reaches the bottom thats what 2 months, more than enough time for this many worms to process said tray.

    On another note I recently fed my worms a lot of watermelon rinds and because from experience I know I will get drainage I leave the drain valve open with a container underneath. This is the only time that I get drainage in my system. I also find that by cutting the rinds up into small pieces , it is easy for the worms to process it and easier for me to place it in the bin. I place the melon face down on top of bedding. I also have several layers of newsprint covering that.

  • theparsley
    7 years ago

    With regard to compression/compaction in the lower trays, I think it becomes less of a problem when the system has a higher population of worms, because worms are basically little drills moving through the bedding material at all times and keeping it porous. Well-processed castings also tend to aggregate together in a way that maintains porous spaces between the aggregations.


    But I still have some problem with a "crust" of unprocessed bedding material remaining on the very top of the bottom-most tray, even after the rest of that tray is pretty well processed. You wouldn't think this would be so, since the worms are constantly coming up and down through the hole in the tray bottom. But it is not a lot of trouble to remove that layer of material and put it back in the bin. I still wish, however, that it was easier for air to get to those lower trays, as they tend to remain so wet that harvesting the castings requires a long drying period before they are usable.

    I've also noticed that if I take more care to let the most recent tray fill up all the way before swapping out the next one, a more full tray will compact less when it's lower down and no longer actively receiving new material. Of course this summer I've been in a hurry to use the castings and haven't quite had a full workforce of worms yet, so I've been swapping the trays out before they're properly filled.

  • hummersteve
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Of course if we go to tray system we start it when we want to or are able , but ideally starting the process after gardening season is best . Then again it does take some time to get started in the first place. Patience is needed and for those who have little of that this may not work well for them.

    On another note on todays harvest I noticed quite an upswing in cocoons something I had not been seeing on previous harvests. I did not save these for my worm bins, but instead they went into my holding buckets and if they survive in there then they will eventually go into my gardens , plants , or someone elses. So going from the 3 to 5 trays has seemed to kick start procreation once again.

  • 11otis
    7 years ago

    theparsley: when I had my WF360 and found the finished VC too wet to my liking, I cut pieces of corr. cb, rolled them up and put them chimney like in the tray (3 or 4 spots). When still dry they supported/lift the upper tray and added some air circulation. Replace them once they're wet and it's easy to rip them into smaller pieces to be used as bedding in the working trays.

  • theparsley
    7 years ago

    Otis, I actually tried something like that a while back made of egg cartons, but they just smushed down too fast (and then I had bits of egg carton to pick out of the otherwise mostly finished VC). Clearly my execution was lacking.

    I've seen some people actually use screws to attach wood or plastic strips to the sides of the trays on the outside, positioned so as to keep the trays from nesting all the way into each other. That seems like a more lasting solution, if my handyperson skills could ever be up to it.

  • theparsley
    7 years ago

    OK, having decided I needed an easier and more reversible experiment, I've now dug up some small, short Ball jars and put them in each corner of the bottom-most tray (without lids, mouth side down). Don't have enough to do the second tray right now, but I can always get more. Single serving yogurt containers or the like would probably also be about the right size, but I don't have any of those handy. Poor worms, I have now unstacked their house twice in two days (had to do it yesterday to remove a clog in the spigot), but hopefully they will enjoy the extra elbow room.

    By the way, the spigot was clogged with castings and WORMS. Finally got them out by taking out the spigot and running water through it in the sink.

  • 11otis
    7 years ago

    The way I mentioned above will take away elbow room but it did absorb moisture faster than just letting it evaporate. If you just need more air-flow, this is what I did. Put the trays at an angle on the lip of the one underneath it and trying to minimize flying critters flying out, I covered the entire thing with landscape fabric. During warm days I left the WF on the balcony w/o cover.

    (But of course you know that fungus gnats ALWAYS find ways to get out).

  • hummersteve
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I dont find that staggering the trays is necessary. I just checked my current bottom tray and I love how the VC is looking. The worms are doing a great job and each and every surface casting appears defined. Im thinking by the time the upper trays reach the bottom in a couple of months it will be even more so . I should have been using all the trays sooner. Of course someone just beginning it will take some time to get to this point. Or you could do as that guy on you tube. If interested in that look up "3 weeks to harvest".

  • Charlie
    7 years ago

    I have a 3 tray WF and after harvesting 2 trays, I replaced one tray and fed in it through the summer. It appears ready to harvest, but I want to add at least one more feeding to fill up the tray to within an inch of the top. After adding the final feeding, I am going to employ the 3rd tray with just shredded newspaper until the second tray is consumed. I have the WF in a closed storage shed where I will place an electric heater that operates when the temperature drops to 35 and cuts off at 45. The worms won't work as much, but they did not die last year. My vermicompost is usually too wet for an easy harvest, even though I leave the spigot open with a drain-catch container under it. Winter is approaching; should I harvest the tray that is ready or delay it until spring?

  • theparsley
    7 years ago

    I have a couple of spare plastic trays (plain cat litter trays) that I use to age/dry castings after harvest, as an intermediate step before storage in buckets. My own preference is to get finished castings out of the system to free up the space so I can keep continually adding material - I continue to produce food scraps and coffee grounds all year round, after all.

    I have had the same problems with soggy vermicompost in the WF, especially in the bottom tray, but there seems to be improvement now that I've put some small jars as "columns" in the four corners of the bottom-most tray to maintain a little air space. Can report in more detail when I harvest in a few days. You could use jars, cans, yogurt containers, whatever you've got around that wouldn't buckle under the weight or dissolve and is about 3 1/4 inches high.

  • Charlie
    7 years ago

    theparsley - I will try that. I still have some castings with worms in them in a separate bucket from the spring. I like the idea of letting the castings dry out in a separate container. Then I can use my home-made screens to take the worms out. I have a 1/4 inch screen for that purpose and a 1/8th inch screen to separate the cacoons. I have never used them due to the dampness of the VC.

  • theparsley
    7 years ago

    Even when the castings are not so wet, I haven't found screening to be a very effective method of getting the worms out of the castings. Of course you can't screen at all when the castings are a big clump of wet mud. But red wigglers are pretty small, and the babies and young'uns are smaller still...and the cocoons are smaller than 1/8". Even when the castings get to be more granular so that the worms can't stay imbedded in the large lumps, the worms can still go through the meshes of the screens.

    Taking the worm factory tray you want to harvest and putting it on top with a light shining down on it, and then removing the castings one thin layer at a time while the worms dive down away from the light, works pretty well even when the castings are still somewhat wet. Just ignore any instructions that say to "brush off" the layers of castings - they won't "brush off" when they are a big clayey muddy mass - but you can rake up the surface layer a bit and then scoop off the top layer, come back in a while and do another layer, etc. This also gets the drying process started.

    Of course, it's better not to have things get so soggy in the bin at all, but I'm still working on achieving that balance myself, so tsk-tsking you on that point will help neither of us :-) If you're letting things run a long long time and they're still very wet, you may not be adding as much fresh bedding as you could - I find when I keep adding more bedding to soak up moisture, the trays eventually get too full and I have to swap out or else start building Worm Mountain.

  • Charlie
    7 years ago

    theparsley - Exactly how do you use your castings? I tried mixing some with my potting soil and placed a handful in the hole where I transplanted garden vegetables. I am unsure if it helped the plants.

  • theparsley
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I have a teeny-tiny patio garden, and it's difficult to dig, so I mostly use castings in the planting holes when I plant or transplant something, or else I top dress - just add castings to the surface of the soil, under the mulch, at regular intervals. I add castings to the soil of potted plants also. And I give castings away to relatives and friends with similarly tiny gardens. Lots of people use castings (finely sifted) in seed starting and also for rooting cuttings.

    Vermicompost can be used anywhere regular compost is used but it has some extra benefits - it absorbs and retains water in the soil (on account of worm mucus in it, yum!) and there's some research that worm castings contain plant growth-boosting chemicals that mimic plant hormones. So it's more of a long-term benefit to soil nutrition and structure than a quick boost like chemical plant food. I like the fact that it's especially concentrated because I garden in such a small space.

  • Charlie
    7 years ago

    I left my WF while I went on a 3-week vacation. The spigot was open so I know that it drained adequately. When I checked the active food tray, which I had left with a good layer of new food covered by shredded newspaper, It all appeared to be ready for harvest. Fast work! After three days with no food added, I found the floor covered with escaped/dead worms, most of them small. I quickly added some food and have seen no additional escapees. Good the mass escape be a shortage of food?

  • theparsley
    7 years ago

    Lack of food is probably the least likely reason for a mass escape of worms. Even in bins where no food has been added for many months, the worms tend to stay put and keep re-working microscopic bits of food until they absolutely can't any more, then they lay eggs and expire - rather than leaving the bin.


    On the other hand, bad conditions in the bin, like lack of oxygen or the presence of something toxic to them, may make the worms desperate enough to try and leave. Sometimes this happens to worms after they've been put into a brand-new bin with all new bedding, but otherwise, in an established bin, mass worm exodus is a bad sign.

    So I would check what's going on in the bin very carefully. Is the bedding very wet, or very dry? Any bad smells? Was there anything unusual about the food you added just before you left? Is there enough air in there? What was different when you were out of town - was there a tight fitting lid on the bin that normally gets lifted more often when you're home?

  • hummersteve
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Yes I have to agree thats not a reason for the worms to escape a bin , something is off kelter big time for them to leave or overflow their bins. For those of us who add kitchen scrap to bins and we check to see if any bits of that remain we have to remember there is always bits of debris they can always be working on.

    Since I have expanded my 360 from 3 to 5 bins the one thing I begin to see is cocoons which I had not been seeing using 3 trays. I have now ordered an additional bin and that will be my max. I had previously also made a homemade system using plastic tubs[ should have used rubberized] and it did ok for a couple of years and gotten a good bit of castings , but something went wrong worms started dying and I have since eliminated that system.

    Im fully convinced the factory system is the best way to go though somewhat expensive to get started in the first place with having to buy both system and worms. Evidently Im doing enough right with the 360 that Ive never had a problem with its use and get consistant harvests.

  • Charlie
    7 years ago

    Hummer - For your factory system, are you using 5 bins now and going to expand to six? If so, is the purpose to allow longer work times to get more pure castings as opposed to vermicompost? Can you give an explanation of bin use and how long (in ideal conditions) from implementation of the bin to when the bin is full and another bin added on top to when it is harvested?

  • hummersteve
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Charlie-- Yes Im now using 5 trays and the reason is hopefully to get a higher quality finished product but it will still be considered VC. With the expanded space the worms are already showing an increased reproduction rate with the appearance of the cocoons as the worms will regulate themselves given their work space. I may not have mentioned that my system is indoors in a large closet as I want the worms to work 24/7 year round and not have a slowdown for colder months as I want the castings for spring gardening and plants. I currently have the system on a two week rotation and to your other question currently in takes the top feeding bin about 2 .5 months to get to the bottom as a finished harvest. Once I get the sixth tray that will change to 3 months for the top tray to be a harvest tray. That should give a better product and most cocoons will have hatched. Those that dont and are in the finished tray Im not going to take the time to separate. I also wouldnt be surprised if the rotation didnt speed up or that I might take two harvests at once once the activity speeds up even more.

  • 11otis
    7 years ago

    You are right. The average time to harvest is about 3 months. That's the time frame when I had my WF. Then my 4 tier RM. However, now with my 2'x4' it's at least 6 months but I let it sit longer. (me being on the lazy side). Maybe my worm population is not up to snuff.

  • Tracy Kelley
    7 years ago

    Hello,
    A week ago I bought a WF360 for my early childhood classroom. A local soil scientist who runs a huge vermi-composting farm here in our town donated some of her horse manure/leaf compost and red wigglers for it! We are off to a great start- I "introduced" the system and worms to the students on Monday.
    We have lots of fresh vegetables and fruits for our school meals, so we are saving scraps of those. We have a chopper in the classroom, and the kids help me chop them up, then we freeze them, and I also microwave them to thaw them (and let them reach room temperature!) before feeding them to the worms- that way they get broken down some, and we are trying to avoid fruit flies in the classroom.

    I have 3 additional trays to add to the system, and would love to get it up to 8 trays eventually.
    My question is: once we have all 4 trays really up and running- how many scraps of food should we expect to be feeding the worms on a daily or weekly basis? I read that the worms can eat half their body weight per day- if all 4 trays are going, how many worms are we going to have eating?

    We are in an elementary school and can easily get plenty more scraps- our students have been composting for years (our school recycles/composts more than 77% of all waste in our school!), and we have a wonderful school garden where we can use the finished compost eventually!

    Thanks for any information, suggestions, or comments! :)

  • 11otis
    7 years ago

    In regards to WF360 I am sure hummersteve could answer all your questions.

    I am wondering, since your school have been composting for years, have you noticed any worms in the compost heap? Where is your location in regards to summer/winter temps.?

  • Tracy Kelley
    7 years ago

    11otis,
    Our food for composting for the school is picked up by another company, so we don't compost on site. I hope to change that at least partially at some point! :)
    We are in Colorado, so we have pretty warm summers and plenty of snow in the winters although our temps *usually* don't stay real low for too long for any period of time. But we can have extremes at both ends. I could not keep the 360 outdoors.

    theparsley- thanks so much for your advice! I am actually very glad for the "take it slow" advice. We have 3 medium sized plastic food storage containers full of chopped up fruit and vegetables in our freezer right now. I was VERY tempted today to take one out of the freezer today and start letting it thaw out and start the decomposition process in order to feed the worms- but they still have a fair amount of food in their bin right now. I will wait. We did get a few fruit flies, as I was using completely fresh food to begin with, but then we started chopping the food, freezing it, microwaving it, and then letting it come to room temperature before adding it to the worm bin. (I have read that both freezing and microwaving can kill off the fruit flies). I have only added food twice so far, and it was about 1/4 cup or so. The worms seem busy and active- especially in the 2 corners where I added food. No bad odors or anything, so I think they are doing ok so far.
    I don't know how many worms we started with, but it was like a Chinese food take out container full of the compost and worms, so it was a decent amount.

    I appreciate all of the advice! The kids are enjoying it and want to "check on the worms" once in awhile. They ask me every day which foods we can save for them- "Can I save my kiwi skins? What about my carrot?" :)
    It's a great learning experience for all of us!

  • Tracy Kelley
    7 years ago

    Adding- at home, I have 2 outdoor composters- Earth Machines. We definitely have lots of worms (and they look like red wigglers) in those- but they are about 3 feet tall and mostly full and I assume the worms burrow down in the winter.

  • theparsley
    7 years ago

    It sounds like you are off to a good start. Sometimes worm bin instructions tell you to wait till the food has "completely disappeared" before adding more - that's going a little far, but waiting until the worms are fully involved in the old food before adding any new food is good advice.

  • Tracy Kelley
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I added about 2 cups of food and some shredded paper on Friday, and today the food was almost all gone (I saw a little banana peel left). I added another 2 cups or so today. The worms look much bigger in size and in population. No leachate so far. No odors. No other bugs except if I look closely I see some little tiny crawling bugs here and there- not sure what they are but there aren't huge numbers and I am sure they are normal. I feel surprised that things are going so well so far! You just add food scraps and they make it into compost! The students asked to "check on the worms" today, and they sprayed some water in there and dug around a little bit and found clumps of worms here and there. They looked for cocoons but I am not quite sure what I am looking for (we did a google search to see what they look like though), so I don't know if we are actually finding any or not. This has been fun so far! The students also asked me "do worms sleep?" and I did a little research and have a decent answer, but we submitted their question to Wonderopolis too. :)

  • theparsley
    7 years ago

    Well? DO worms sleep? And if so, what do they dream about? Perhaps life in a nice bin with people bringing them food all the time!

    It will take a while before cocoons start turning up in any noticeable numbers. Once they do, though, they are not hard to see (at least for the young eyes) - they look like shiny pale yellow or reddish beads. They stand out most in very finished dark vermicompost but are harder to see in mixed bedding and food. If you fold up a piece of burlap and put it in the bin, cocoons and baby worms will turn up in the burlap - apparently the worms like to use the rough material to help scrape the cocoons off their necks, so cocoons will tend to be concentrated there.

  • Tracy Kelley
    7 years ago

    Thank you!

    And the answer I found was that it depends on how you define sleep. :)
    http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1997-03/854542855.Zo.r.html


  • Andrew Arenson
    4 years ago

    theparsley, I'm intrigued by your mention of mosquito netting to disrupt the lifecycle of fungus gnats. I'm battling an infestation of both fungus gnats and fruit flies in my 360 which we keep in our kitchen and I'm near my wits end. How does the mosquite netting help? Couldn't the flies live their entire lifecycle inside the bin?

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