I've not had that problem...yet. I have noticed that the older the 5-1-1 gets, the more slowly it drains...still quickly, but not as quickly as when it was freshly made. I hope not to have that problem come winter...

Laura I'm a little worried...if it's happening now, then the winter will certainly be worse. Would you make a new batch and repot?

I've had a gnat problem before when I was using a heavy peat based bagged potting mix. I found some very helpful info on how to control them organically on THIS page. Using combine techniques, like Hydrogen peroxide solution, cinnamon, not keeping the soil so moist, worked fairly well for me. Hope i don't have the problem this winter.

When did you pot your trees? I am not sure it would be worth it if they trees will go through another shock...I don't know. How bad is it?

Eventually I shall post a few photos of my indoor plants (close to 100). Fungus gnats are a problem for me, but I battle them with something called beneficial nematodes. Fungus gnats reproduce by depositing their eggs within the first 2-3 inches of the soil surface. Eventually the eggs (about 100 per gnat) hatch into larva which then feed on organic matter and/or the plant roots present in the potting medium, before becoming airborne critters and repeating the reproduction process. This happens over about 2-4 weeks, but this can be faster in warmer conditions. Beneficial nematodes are a form of parasitic roundworm (not parasitic to humans or animals) that invades the fungus gnat larva, eventually killing it. The roundworm then uses the carcass as a host for reproduction. Eventually many more roundworms will emerge, representing their reproductive cycle. This is a long-term solution which happens to work well on other larval stage insects too.

I use Guardian for Fungus Gnats by NIC: Visit Here

Occasionally this is also available on amazon.com/amazon.ca! It ships live and is therefore cooled using ice packs. Upon arrival to your home it must be refrigerated until used. I hope this helps! It is a full-proof solution when combined with sticky yellow traps!

Stefan- that's a lot of indoor plants . what's ur setup do u have a greenhouse or Solarium .

Hi Devsense,

I actually use wire racks to use space vertically, so the plants are are essentially located in a corner of my apartment by the window! Believe it or not, I do have enough space but not enough light. I supplement with LED grow lights. I currently run around 700-800 watts of LED, which will likely increase during the winter. I've attached photos of my indoor garden...

Indoor (pretty much sunless) vegetable garden!

Tropical plants/ferns/citrus seedlings (also essentially sunless)

Citrus bushes, in front of south-west facing window. Most have new growth, and the red navel orange looks to be flowering!

My indoor citrus trees! Again I do not take my indoor plants outdoors!

The top shelf is some random stuff (Australian Finger Lime needs repotting), some bananas, a cashew plant, ect.

And without grow lights (with the fiddle leaf fig in view!)

Looks like a beautiful jungle Stefan!!

Beautiful!!! Now that's what I call using lights!!1 Good work

impressive. its like an exclusive little oasis . I use 600w HPS/MH. But with a ever increasing collection am researching what lights to add. LED is the way I want to go but its a lot of conflicting information on the Web about which brand to choose, therez just so much gimmick. what make of LED do u use ?

Hey Laura,

Its a giant lime from Four Winds that came at the end of April. I repotted right away in the 511. It just started pushing out new growth about 3 weeks ago. The top looked a little dry today so I mixed it around with a chopstick and there were a ton of gnats. I've had them before in the winter with the old mixes, but not as bad as this. Never really had a problem in the past with gnats on outdoor plants.

Stefan...your plants are incredible, even more so for indoors! I will check out the info you sent. Thank you

Devsense they are lights that I purchased on amazon.ca. They are the brand Mars Hydro. Their LED grow lights are intended for cannabis, however I find they are also very effective for tropical plants and vegetables. I also bought a cheaper alternative under the Roleadro brand name, but it produces more heat and is not nearly as effective as the Mars Hydro lights. I use the reflector series (here) currently because it has little light spread, however for indoor fruiting of my citrus trees I will likely upgrade to the Mars II line (here).

To everyone: Thanks for all nice comments! :)

I don't know...if it's been in the mix for awhile and adapted, I'd be tempted to remix and switch it out. You could try a treatment for them though. I'm just afraid you'll be fighting them all winter.

How long does alf it take for the lower layers of the mix in your pot to dry out after you water?

The 5.1.1 if made correctly should dry out pretty rapidly, at least a couple of days in heat and sun. At least three days in in shade. At least 3 to 4 days if in the house and so on...No more than a week...

If it take quite some time before it dries out, i would start over before winter sets in..Or you could use the wicking method to help drain the moisture from your pots quicker.

I have never had an issue with flies unless there was too much peat or I used a bark that was totally decomposted..

I think it staying wet longer than its supposed to Mike, so in going to start over. I'm going to mix up a new batch today because this giant lime seems infested. It's pushing out new growth now....will repotting affect that? It's in a 5 gallon container. Four Winds recommended a 10 gallon, but that seemed way too big.

thanks Stefan. I did some Googling n the 420forums have some detailed journals using these lights with positive results . I am thinking of the MarsII 700 or 900. another thing I noticed is the Mars website lists it cheaper than amazon even after converting to CAD. which one r u planning to get.

n apologies jersey for discussing unrelated topic on this thread.

Jersey, I had a few of my citrus in the gritty mix, the pots were heavy.. Then when I ordered more citrus, I potted them up in the 5-1-1 because I did not want to be lugging around heavy containers. Well, like you, I had a gnat infestation... When it warmed up this spring, I took them outside and the gnats disappeared. But, I have been re-potting many of my citrus back in the gritty mix. I have a few more to re-pot. I want to get it done soon before they need to come in for the winter because I do not want to deal with the gnats. They drove me crazy.. lol

The bag of peat based mix I bought and used for the5-1-1 had this list of ingredients: sphagnum peat moss, processed forest products, coir, organic fertilizer (derived from poultry liter, feather meal, and, meat meal) and yucca. It is by Nature's Care, and, it is supposed to protect against over and under watering. Was this a bad mix to use in the 5-1-1?? I only watered the citrus every four to five days, sometimes longer (they were in well draining pots) did the dowel/finger test but, the soil just had a mucky look to it deep down.. I use it in my outdoor containers mixed with perlite, and, never had a problem with the gnats.

I have lately been making my 5-1-1 more like 6-1-.75 (the last being the peat moss). I also started using the extra large perlite that Vladimir recommended and really like it. I wish I'd used that perlite with my earlier trees. Mine seem ok though...so far. Let us know how it works out Mary!

Yeah me too , esp since I use Composted Pine Bark , I find they have enough fine particles , I am thinking of even doing without any peat , I use ProMix HP for peat , which has coco coir n mycrorrihizae , dont know how much benefit the mycrorrihizae gives .

Thanks everyone for all the input. I made a new batch of 511 today and cut back a little on the peat. I do love the gritty Jinnylea, but the giant lime was in a really big container and I knew I'd have a problem lifting it. I did find a bag of super coarse perlite at a hydroponics store Laura, so hopefully that will help too. I probably could have cut back even more on the peat, but oh well. I've had gnats over the winter when my plants were in commercial soils, but I never noticed them when they were kept outside.

I repotted it today and put it in a shady spot. It was just starting to push some nice new growth and I hope that continues at least for whatever is left of the season.

Devsense, I love when unrelated topics come up...it's such a great learning forum!

I will take a pic tomorrow and keep you all updated. In the meantime, I'm fighting off the bees that are feasting on my figs...ugh

Jersey, you gotta do what is best for you and the trees. Your tree and mix look great. It will thank you by pushing out even more growth..

That sucks about the bees and your figs. :( But, I understand the battle. The bees love the Plums on our plum tree! We have holes in a lot of the fruit!! I picked every fruit I could get my hands on even if they are just turning. I will let them continue to ripen up in the basement. So far they have not gotten ahold of the figs outdoors, but, I discovered a wasp nest inside the gh over the weekend. Ughh!! I have two fig trees in pot's and they have figs on them. A few are almost ripe. I need to beat them to the fruit..

Mike, thanks! I will not use the organic peat mix again for citrus. Even a small amount was not good in the 5-1-1. I do love the gritty mix and will stick with it for now.

My fingers are crossed and thanks for all the encouragement as always! How does everyone store their extra 511? Or do you just make the amount you're going to use? I have a fair amount left and nothing left to repot lol.

Jinny, I was out there with a fly swatter and gloves to pick my figs. I've had to pick some early, but they taste so much better when they can fully ripen on the tree. Unfortunately, the bees found them, so it's a battle now. Plus once the bees make a hole in the fig...the ants come marching in!

Does anyone bring big pots with gritty into the house or just in greenhouses? I didn't think I'd be able to get a 5 gallon pot of gritty up the steps from my patio, plus the thought of the shuffle when temps fluctuate a lot.

I make about 40 gallons at time and store it in a plastic trash barrel that has a tight lid on it in my barn. I have not seen any gnats.

Vladimir, I had some extra in the spring that I kept covered in one of those Home Depot orange buckets. I didn't get gnats, but there was some kind of fungus growing on it after a couple of weeks. I'm thinking if it's uncovered it will dry out. I have it outside right now in 2 big pots. How long do you store it?

Hey Jinny...I don't blame you for not using peat in your mixes..I refuse to use it in many too, especially all my plants I like in the gritty..I didn't realize you said that you use the gritty mix only now, my bad...Good for you))

I think asked if it was bad to use the 'mix', 'Natures Care' with feather meal and stuff...I just wanted to encourage you to use pure 'peat' since any other additives could cause a gnat issue if you were to make a 5.1.1 again...Keep up the good job with the gritty !! If anything, everyone should use the gritty since it does not weigh as much as they think it does when wet....Believe it or not, sometimes I will make the 5.1.1 without peat substituting 'pumice' or 'surface' instead and it is awesome!!! All my Hoya thrive in this and many of my citrus....

Jersey, I bring both the gritty and 5.1.1 mix plants into the house..It must be me, but I have pots full of the gritty and the 5.1.1 and they both seem to weigh the same to me...I don't make a mix ahead of time and store it for more than a week or so...I am afraid it will decompose too much by the time I use it. I will actually soak my bark for a few days but without the peat..Then I use that damp bark and mix it with the peat and perlite as needed to keep it as fresh as possible....

I love how your tree looks in that pot and the color of that mix..Good job..By the way, I had no idea all of us had FIGS in common.. I think we are all too much alike in the plants department! I just finished picking 20 ripe Black Mission, as sweet as they could be...What kills me, is that some can have a problem in one area and some of us nothing in another..I never saw a bee go for mines...Crazy and over 27 varieties...

Jersey, I store my 511 for up to 3 - 4 weeks. This mix is supposed to last at least a year, so storing it for that relatively short time should not make a difference. I use 511 and gritty and gritty is definitely heavier.

Mike, I have previously mixed up some 5-1-1 using turface instead of the peat.. I like it much better that way. But, I still prefer the gritty mix overall.

Well now I'm going to have to buy new plants so I can use up the rest of my 511 lol. I have to say that whatever I potted in the gritty seemed to do much better. My only concern is how fast it drains and for the smaller plants I can put them in the sink to water. I think it would be harder with the bigger plants. How does everyone water them in the house? If I had a greenhouse it would certainly be easier...one can dream

Nothing like eating a warm fig right off the tree!!!!!! And those are soft Mike, another thing to eat while you're healing:)

If repotting is not an option, and sometimes it isn't, I would still reach for the tried and true Bacillus thuringiensis var. israelensis (Bti) in liquid or granular form, mixed with or dissolved in water. Apply only on watering day, not as an extra dose of water when the plants have probably been watered too frequently or are in an overly mucky potting mix.

Bti can be an excellent stop-gap remedy until the permanent fix can be adoped....repotting into the coarse textured, fast draining potting medium of your choice, store bought or homemade. I've used what I consider the perfect commercial mix for many, many years, ready to use straight out of the bags.

Jersey..Right?? I just pick a few more today, which don't hurt to bite and boy do they taste nice and sweet and delicious!! White variety...Yes, water as usual in your potted plants..I use a saucer underneath and I use a hand held pump sprayer to water all my plants so it slowly exits the bottom once they are inside..)

Rhizo!!So happy to see you and to see you are still around helping others with your expertise!! I have missed you and I keep thinking to get in touch, but so much has happened here that I keep forgetting..It's so easy to post here at times, that is should be easy to write an e-mail..My bad((

hizo, what is the name of that commercial mix? Is it still Fafard? Have you bought a bag recently since it was bought out by Sun Gro I think..It is way more dense than before...What do you think?

Posting issue.

That makes more sense Mike, a hand held pump sprayer...it would give me a lot more control! I use a watering can outdoors for most of my plants and it just seems to all come out of those in the gritty. They're doing well, so obviously taking as much as they need.