This has been discussed extensively in the past. People use vinegar in laundry, they recommend it and it gets repeated over and over.

However, apart from removing rust there appears to be no science whatsoever to support the efficacy of any type of vinegar in laundry. I have used up to 1 cup of vinegar and never found it to do anything it's claimed to do. Doesn't deodorize. Doesn't soften. Doesn't do anything but a placebo effect.

Nothing wrong with placebo effect. Harmless.

No one has provided any science on its behalf, however.

So I don't imagine it would matter whether white to apple cider vinegar was used aside from cost.

Pat, I don't know.

What do you use the vinegar for? It is a mild acidic so it could be used as a mild laundry sour, so it may help neutralize carbonate residue. That is probably why some people report softer clothes when using it in one of the the rinse cycles. If however powder detergent isn't over dosed and/or the things are well rinsed you wouldnt notice a difference as there would be no residue to neutralize lol.

What I should have said was if enough vinegar is used it can help neutralize alkali from washing soda in powder detergent or boosters. Which when the alkali is more neutral gives cotton and linen a smoother finish. Laundries don't use vinegar for this since its so mild more would be needed...they use a true laundry sour.

Roc..I agree vinegar is over rated..but as a mild laundry sour..that's a different matter.

mama, to make a long story short, I have to rinse with apple cider vinegar after shampooing because I have a strange, sensitive scalp and the ACV works wonders to eliminate scalp itch. Therefore I figured it would help alleviate whatever may be in laundry detergent that might irritate my old skin on any given day. I mean, I actually have a medicine for my scalp but ACV is cheaper and most times works even better. Crazy, I know.

Thank you for your help always!

Pat

Pat,

For laundry (or on your hair) white vinegar will work as well as apple cider vinegar but will smell a lot less strong. If you want no smell whatsoever get some citric acid powder. It does the same as vinegar but with no smell at all. I know many claim these things do nothing in laundry, but for those of us with ultra-sensitive skin (and hard water in my case) it helps noticeably in causing less skin irritation and rashes. Good luck at beating scalp and skin issues!

The cider vinegar is not clear, so it might stain the fabric like weak tea dyeing.

I don't bother much with vinegar anymore. It does nothing when I have an overdose of detergent. Sometimes I'll use it in the fabric softener tray when washing wools, for the pH.

Since laundry sour has been mentioned, here's a description from a Dupont website that sells glycolic acid as a laundry sour for commercial laundries.

"Industrial and institutional laundries use a multi-step
laundry process which includes the use of alkaline
detergents. This detergent must be neutralized by a
“sour”. In the past, silicafluorides or hydrofluosilicic acid
have been used to neutralize the laundry. Today’s modern
laundry equipment, including automatic dispensers,
requires a flexible yet dependable liquid sour. Glycolic Acid
provides the dependability and flexibility demanded in a
modern laundry system."

Here's another description: "Clothesline Fresh Xtreme Laundry Sour is a blend of three types of acids
optimized to tackle the highest levels of alkalinity and iron found in
the wash bath. Clothesline Fresh Xtreme Laundry Sour is a concentrated
liquid laundry sour designed to neutralize the pH of the finished wash
to a comfortable level which will not irritate skin.Clothesline Fresh
Xtreme Laundry Sour is specifically formulated for use in large laundry
facilities. This product is for use in tunnel washers, large industrial
laundries, and food and beverage laundries. Clothesline Fresh Xtreme
Laundry Sour is also for use in facilities with high levels of iron
content by keeping the iron in the water and off of the linen.
Clothesline Fresh Xtreme Laundry Sour will also help to remove iron
stains from previously stained linen. Clothesline Fresh Xtreme Laundry
Sour is also excellent at removing suntan lotion stains."

Vinegar doesn't appear to be an ingredient in either of these. Googling "laundry sour" will turn up a bunch of other additives. It appears to me from brief reading that this is a commercial laundry practice designed to neutralize harsh detergents.

Again, if using vinegar in laundry makes anyone feel better, it's harmless. With extremely hard water it might have some effect though with the low level of acidity in household vinegar that's not clear.

But essentially, there doesn't appear to be any science to back up various effects except removing iron or steel stains.

A laundry sour is an acid..its primary use is to neutralize alkalinity, it does not remove residue, it neutralizes the alk.

Commercial laundries use detergents much more alkaline than what we use at home..so laundries have to use a acid to reduce the alk or soon as it hits the press the garment is turning yellow.

Vinegar is a mild acid but still if enough is used can help to being the alkalinity down in a washload that perhaps someone used say Tide with Bleach powder that has a PH of around 11 and than added a nice dose of OxiClean that brought the alkalinity even higher...a rinse using a generous helping of vinegar can bring the alkalinity down some..not saying its a strong enough acid to neutralize it..fabrics that have had the alkalinity neutralized will feel smoother than those that come out with a higher alk.

However this is different than what a FS does..a laundry sour will not remove residue and it will not soften like FS.

I also can't say how much vinegar needs to be used to be beneficial as a mild laundry sour. .a cup? A gallon? I haven't a clue.

By the way vinegar also doesn't cut suds.

Also want to say I agree with what Roc has said time and again...vinegar is not a FS ..its also not a disinfectant or a suds cutter.

hisown, I agree and I thank you for your time.

The fabric softener dispenser puts vinegar into the rinse.

Again, there is no science for claims of vinegar helping with skin problems, cutting static cling or softening clothes with exceptions stated above. As an acid, it would be a slight irritant.

If anyone wants to post verifiable science on this, we're still waiting.

It's the people posting claims without qualifying that their opinion is that it works for them who are saying what they want. it doesn't work for everyone.

This is almost as bad as the no-shoes-in-the-house controversy and I expect it would be equally as bad as whether the woman in the grocery store yesterday who was pushing her dog and his dog bed around in the shopping cart was doing something unsanitary.

OTOH, opinion and fact are two different issues. I expect we can all agree on that.

hisown, what do you think of the "free" detergents like Tide, All, etc.? Do they help you? Do you think the makers take out more than just fragrance? Do you think they clean as well as non-free formulas? Some days any Tide does not bother me, other days Tide Free & Clear bothers me. Really gets to be old hat some days, doesn't it?

Roc...What do you mean about the no shoes in the house controversy??

We have forbid shoes in the house for ages!! Most Scandinavian countries, many Asian countries and most of Hawaii does this.

Think about it...you walk through a dirty oily parking lot at Target, you visit a public restroom, walk through a park, a store, an amusement park....All of the ick you walk though, comes home with you (well some of it) and it goes into your home.

There have been many studies about this, especially for allergy sufferers. It can easily be looked up.

For us...NO shoes in the house!!

Oh boy I certainly agree with the no shoes in the house policy! And frequent hand washing. Even when I come back from shopping I remove my shoes and walk over to the sink and promptly wash my hands. But everyone is different and I can appreciate that!!

If the PH is high in the rinse still...vinegar can help lower it. Clothes that emerge from the laundry with the proper PH will be smoother than clothes that come out with high alkalinity due to residue...I think some people confuse this with softness. Its not the same thing. correct me if I'm wrong but even commercial laundries do another rinse after the *sour* rinse and than use a fabric softener, or conditioner. I don't think laundries would go to the added expense of using a conditioner in the finishing rinse if the laundry sour much stronger than vinegar softened the clothes.

As far as no shoes in the house, hubs and I kerp our indoor slippers in the mud room and swap when we come in or out. The boys don't wear slippers but take their shoes off in the door. Booties for repair people, ect...but if I happen to get company I do not offer booties or ask them to remove their shoes. Some people could have a foot fungus which would make it even worse than wearing shoes in.

Years ago there was a thread over on kitchens or ho dec about no shoes in the house. It was insane. A huge fight. Huge and it went on and on. People became crazed.

Who would imagine that could be so controversial.

We wear house slippers, always have, or sox in the house. No outdoor shoes. One way to forever be cured of wearing outdoor shoes indoors is to live in NYC -- the floors get so filthy the bottom of your feet need washing constantly.

Oh, and I so agree with Jean about the hand washing. I use hand sanitizer through the day and if I'm out, the minute I get back to the house I wash my hands. Also before I go to bed. It makes a big difference.

I bought some booties and keep them handy.

"Think about it...you walk through a dirty oily parking lot at Target"

Ssssh... you mean the Wal-Mart.. right? ;)

@Roc....we too use house slippers that are for indoors only. We have quick slips on & even Swedish clogs to go get the mail or take trash out. No outdoor shoes in the house!

A very good friend of mine who wear shoes in the house.....I took my shoes off there ONE time, and the bottoms of my feet were black. SO gross....her floors looked clean, but my feet got so dirty. Reinforced my firm and unwavering, NO shoes in the house belief and policy. Family, guest, workers, etc.....

You know it's funny.. ever since I was a youngster, I've refused to wear shoes indoors. I still remember going to some of my friend's houses, and a few of their mom's would make comments about how they wish their kid did the same.

Can't say I own a pair of slippers or anything. Just Socks, haha. :)

I have a shoes off rule in my apartment. Where can I buy booties?

I also wash my hands, but I have a caveat about the hand sanitizers. They are not very effective against the Norovirus, either is temperature, but soap and water are your best defense. Ask me how I know. LOL

Morton you should be able to find boxes of booties at Lowes

Pat,

People with badly sensitive skin (atopic dermatitis or something similar) can have it for different reasons, so what works for me may not work for you. None of the commercial versions that offer fragrance free or clear versions worked for me. I suppose there are other chemicals in them besides the fragrances and colors that I react to. I experimented for years, and spent an awful lot of time with terrible rashes, all of which itched and showed up as various types of blisters, some of which oozed clear stuff, while others hurt and bled. It can be a nightmare to have skin like this.

I don't know your specific problem, but I have been pretty successful for several years washing my clothing with Charlie's Soap to which I add a little Nellie's, some STPP and sometimes some Borax. As I said above, I put a tablespoon of citric acid powder in the dispenser intended for fabric softener. Then I wash the heck out of my clothing, letting them wash about ten minutes, then restarting the cycle over again. I have my machine set for extra rinses at all times.

I used to sometimes wash my husband's clothing separately so that I could use 'regular' detergents because he liked the way they made his clothing smell. My problems went on and on, and then my dermatologist said I needed to stop using anything with fragrance added in my machines, as just the residue was enough to keep my problems going. So I stopped, and my skin is a lot better.

I learned many years ago that I am severely allergic to fabric softeners, and cannot use any type at all. Thus I eventually found the vinegar and later citric acid powder. It's as close as I can get to fabric softener without harm. This does prevent static and helps the clothing feel softer.

I don't understand some of the vehemence and negative tone on this thread. What commercial laundries do, etc., is not relevant to those of us with skin problems. I'm just trying to share what works for some of us who cannot use the products other people can safely use. I hope this helps you, Pat, and maybe some other person with terrible skin who may read but not write on this board. Best of luck finding what works well for you! :)

Shoes come off at the door in my house as well. I always remove my shoes when entering others homes as well whether asked to or not. It seems disrespectful not to. Growing up we weren't allowed to walk on the carpet barefoot. My mother was sure the oils from skin would ruin the fibers. She still keeps extra clean slippers at the door for barefoot guest. Lol.

Apple Cider Vinegar is less acidic than white vinegar. When we had harder water (Michigan) I added citric acid to white vinegar and used as rinse aid in my dishwasher to keep the white film from the dishes. Depending on water conditions it may help with laundry. Most of Michigan's water supply is very high in calcium and minerals and mostly pumped, disinfected and used. I can see how some acidity in the rinse might help in Pat's situation. Certainly can't hurt but would need more acidity than a few Tablespoons of white vinegar.

One of my grandchildren was severely allergic as a baby. Our DD could not use ANY detergent. None. He got an immediate contact allergy. Working through the mom blogs she eventually found Cal Ben pure soap. It solved the baby's allergy problems. When we went to visit we rewashed our clothes so we could hold him. She still uses it. Not fab with the white towels but no more contact allergies.

I can't imagine that detergent ingredients are happy for anyone with severe allergies. There are other products.

@hisown - If an insistence on science and fact vs opinion is viewed as negative then that's unfortunate. Some of us are stiff-necked enough to insist on facts vs opinion stated as fact. It's all very friendly and it's part of the appeal of this forum.

Hisown..I hope you didn't feel negativity from me..I'm sorry if you did. I tried to make what I've learned clear.sorry dear. I will also say clothing comming from the wash with a high PH can be very irritating to healthy skin and even more so to sensitive skin..I can see vinegar helping there as it lowers the alkalinity which makes the clothing less harsh to skin.

Claims about vinegar have some basis in science, specifically the acid-base reaction familiar to anyone who remembers high school chemistry. Whether vinegar is strong enough to make a difference, in any given wash, is a quantitative problem, which is beyond the knowledge found in this forum. It also depends on different people's sensory threshold. Given all that, it's unscientific to claim that all perceived benefits from vinegar are due to the placebo effect.

Repeating myself LOL....Vinegar is an acid, a mild acid. Commercial laundries have a step by step process they follow. One of those steps is to do a *sours* rinse. But why...well they don't have all day to do a long hot wash like many of us like at home so they do short washes, but use detergent high in alkalinity. They than have to lower the PH, which is why they do a rinse with a *sour* an acid, much stronger than vinegar which enables them to use much less. The sour rinse neutrilizes the PH which in fact makes cottons and linens smoother..this smoothing effect can feel soft. We don't walk into a grocery store and buy a commercial sour, but we can buy vinegar which used at the correct dose will neutrilize alkalinity giving the clothing a smoother hand, which to some feels soft and I guess it does considering what the clothes would feel like with a high PH...ever feel cottons that have a high PH? They are rough and scratchy and very irritating to skin. Its not however the same type of softness as FS gives. I doubt its important to do this sour rinse at home unless you have skin like Hisown and Pat who needs to be careful that all alkalinity is neutral on their clothes do to skin issues.

Thing is softness can be different things to different people. Some people equate softness to the residue left behind by FS and some from well rinsed natural feel of cotton.

So in a nutshell if the clothing has a more than neutral alkalinity after it comes out of the wash it won't feel soft by a long shot..but if enough vinegar is used to neutralize the alkalinity the cottons and linens will be smoother..giving the feel of them being softer.

Can't believe so many take their shoes off in the house. I do wash my hands a lot, but never use anything antibacterial. Funny with all this cleanliness more & more people have allergies and such. I think you need to eat some dirt to be healthy, LOL! Guess no one let's their dog eat ice cream off their spoon..................

Speaking of dogs..how many let their pets in and out of the house..they have no shoes to remove haha

Meanwhile.. just a few blocks away from @larsi_gw's house ;)

Too funny, Mitch.

There is a lot of current and ongoing scientific research indicating that the "Placebo Effect" is not our imagination or "not real", but a true phenomenon which scientist believe is mind or brain based. Harvard's Mindfulness program is one. However science does not have an answer to what is truly responsible for the effect. It is not just subjective things like pain or softness, but measurable things that can be changed. Blood pressure, sugar levels, Parkinson tremors have all been reduced or manipulated by the "Placebo Effect". Currently modern medicine is using Mindfulness as a way to assist modern medicine be more effective in all areas including cancer, diabetes, and heart disease. Unfortunately the term "Placebo Effect" has in the past been considered a negative. "It's all in your mind". My answer to that is "So what it works for me."