Literally 2 feet away- a sample of what covers most of the lawn. Cut no more than the long stuff & rarely walked on. It's essentially the same height last mowed at over a month before????

One patch of moss

Another area (front garden) where the grass has grown at very different rates. You can see also the 'browning' among the short grass.

Okay, so since taking the above shots I've hand-weeded everything, mowed with a newly sharpened blade (slightly lower than the top setting but still longer than most lawns- setting 6 out of 8), & fertilized the whole lawn with the stuff you recommended. I've also hand-raked all the patches in the front, re-seeded & rubbed over again with my hands to bury around half of the seed. We've got so much rain forecast for the next few days on & off (plus mostly rainy nights) there'll be no issue of them drying out & they'll also get a good chunk of sun. I found when I raked the short, browning grass, a lot of dead grass surfaced effortlessly. It thinned the lawn out (in a good way) & reduced the brown colour. I must have raked out a full catch-bag of dead grass. I sprinkled new seed lightly among these areas too & my hope is now the lawn will be less choked & be able to grow properly again.

I know this isn't a great pic but its the only one I have of today. This is me & my boy re-seeding the front lawn.

What are your thoughts? Am I doing this right? I still have the whole back & side lawns to do & it took a good 4+ hours to do this front lawn which was less patchy than they.

The fertilizer has been in less than a week btw so i guess we're yet to see what that does.

Thanks again for any help you can offer.

Welcome back! Looks like you're doing a great job. A broadcast spreader would make the job much faster, but then you'd miss out on the father-son time :-)

Looking at one of your pictures, the grass blades don't look quite right for tall fescue. Could you post pictures of:

• Your bag of seed where it lists what's inside. Are you using the same seed as last time?
• A picture of the fertilizer you used
• A close up picture of the yellowing grass blades. Take it as close as you can, we need to see detail on the grass blade.

Also, remind us, is this lawn in full sun?

Hi j4c11- wow you're fast to reply after so long :)

I'll post pics below as requested. As for the sun question, the front lawn is currently in sun from around 9am-3pm & the back lawn for less time- maybe 3pm-6pm. Obviously this varies depending on the time of year & length of days.

This is the seed, bought from the nearby suppliers yard. It's the third such bag I've purchased. It's what the landscape company used when they laid the original lawn.

There is nothing written on the reverse.

Fertilizer bag- front (8kg bag)

The reverse showing the contents.

I wrote down your message above & showed it to the specialist in the garden centre & showed her pics of my lawn. This is what she recommended. I don't know the exact size of my section but it's around 450 square meters (maybe half of which is the house footprint) & I must have spread around 6kgs of the fertilizer.

Close up of the browning grass 01.

Close up take 2

For comparison, close up of the longer, stronger green grass (same lawn- few feet away from brown pics).

There's some stuff in there that's very thin bladed. See the ones that are wide with many lines going along the length of the blade? That's fescue. I'm not sure what the other stuff is. Anyway, looks like you're on the right path. Keep the seed moist and it should be germinating in a few days.

Apply fertilizer again at .5kg N/100m2 in 30 days and every month after that during the growing season. Absent a soil test try to find something with equal N-P-K values (e.g 10-10-10, 17-17-17 etc.).They're typically sold as garden fertilizers, it's just fine for grass as well. If you can't find that, try to find something with nitrogen (N) and also potassium(K) - eg. 17-0-10, potassium is an important nutrient.

Reeljake: So do you think the browning stuff is dead from the spray? That would kinda make sense because the thick, dense stuff close to it (8th pic up) was bare soil when I sprayed. Would that impede the growth of new stuff in the same area? will thinning it out help the new stuff grow?

Danny Review: the pic directly above is a close up of the greenest grass I have (same thick patch seen pre-cut 8 pics up) & the lawn looks pretty much as it does in the pics above. The one of me & Asher seeding is only few days old of the front, and the pic 12 up (patio & shears in shot) is the back garden around a week ago.

Mecoprop and dicamba are both perfectly safe for tall fescue - if applied properly - starting 30 days post seeding. They're part of the standard 3-way mixes along with 2,4D commonly used on cool season grasses.

The thin stuff among the fescue blades is also fescue- just early stage. This is the stage where large areas of the lawn seem 'trapped' among heaps of brown thin stuff. It'll be interesting to see if those areas I've thinned out & removed a bunch of the brown start to progress- we've had a great mix of rain & sun & warm temps this week & the grass has grown a lot. I'll give it another mow & post some more pics this weekend.

Any germination on the new seed? Should start poking through in 4-5 days.

Yes we have gemination! :)

Some places took better than others & still no where near as many shoots as the number of seeds we put down. I haven't been perfect about the watering but I've kinda been onto it & I've watered on any really hot days (around 22 degrees C plus, nothing crazy). It's taken me until today though to finish seeding the whole back lawn- originally it was just the front. I've also put in a hedge today & the grass i took out I've re-planted in some of the larger patches in the back garden, so hopefully it will adjust & pan out over the next couple of weeks.

It's ideal weather really- lightly overcast but warm today, no rain but i watered morning & evening. Yesterday was gorgeous! The lawn as a whole is looking thicker and a nice deep green colour & better than it's ever looked to date.

I've also 'thinned out' some more of that underlying dead grass because those un-growing patches seemed to have improved since i did that last time. They're still a more yellow-green than the rest in comparison but more dead stuff came out today & it's looking better.

Would you like pics of anything?

We love pics, let's see how it's looking!

Hello again guys! :)
It's been a while i know & I'm sorry for not posting pics of my improved lawn almost a year ago. Well, spring has sprung again here in New Zealand & i've been looking forward to giving my lawn another overhaul.
Since my last post I basically got grass cover over more than 90% of my ground area. The remaining 10% being small patches here & there, mostly in the back garden. After researching i learned what i kept referring to as 'browning' above is known as thatch. I never took the time to de-thatch the back lawn due to the time it took to do the front (although i did the front a second time last summer).

Anyway, over autumn & winter my lawn was looking more & more in need of some TLC. It's a vast improvement on the pics as i scrolled through them again today (yikes), but still far from the bowling or golfing green i seek. The main problems were still uneven growth (i.e. patches which grow fast & large areas that barely if ever move) & a general brown colouring no matter how much rain or sun we're getting. The grass itself also is still really thin & whispy & this morning was at least 50% if not more, brown instead of green.

OK, first some thoughts on the seed. I need to double check with the supplier tomorrow, but looking online I think my original lawn seed was FINE fescue. I went through two 5kg bags of this getting my lawn to grow. Then, the third bag i bought (& posted above) is TALL Fescue... which as the only one the (same) supplier had. This would account for why some blades look different from others, the general whispy type of grass & why some areas grow tall while others don't. The only hesitations i have with that theory is i'm not sure the long / greener patches line up with areas I patched up, and I ave a niggling feeling the supplier don't sell Fine fescue, only tall. Hence, I'll double check tomorrow.

Alright, to the project: I watched some 'how to fix my lawn' videos online. I mowed the lawn & edges a little shorter than normal (not the first post-winter cut- third i think) & de-thatched the whole garden using a hired machine. I was amazed at how much 'hay' came out! about a cubic meter of dry, brown, dead grass. I went over the whole lawn twice. I then hired & used an airator & put holes throughout my lawn. The plugs are of premium lawn soil so i've left them on the ground to breakdown naturally. Tomorrow I had a delivery of compost coming, which I'll spread about half an inch thick across the lawn. I'll then re-seed, especially around the larger patchy areas in the back. I also have 2 bags of fertilizer (forgot I had one already) which I'll put down with the seed & rake it all through. The forecast is rain tomorrow so it seemed like the perfect day to do it.

What do you think guys? Am i doing the right thing? Should I compost AND fertilize?
Thanks as always :)

Welcome back!

It definitely looks like fine fescue. And it definitely looks like it's not thriving. I think doing more of the same is not going to yield better results. Your conditions remind me of the Pacific Northwest region here in the US, and so I'm going to suggest that your try seeding with Lolium Perenne aka Perennial Ryegrass.

Wow, ok, thank you for the advice. But Tall Fescue is coming up as a popular choice for NZ lawns & my neighbour has a tall fescue lawn which is lovely, thick & dark green in the back (more shaded) but areas similar to my own in the front. So i don't imagine that it's necessarily the wrong type of seed. It was also recommended by the landscaping company who laid the soil for us.
Also, if i change seed now, wouldn't that just look terrible? Wouldn't i have a mix of the two & need to be cutting different lengths? after 2 years of fighting i really don't want to start over!!! I think maybe irrigation could be key. While it does rain a lot (I had 3 mushrooms on the front lawn yesterday) the sun is very harsh here. Like Australia the ozone is thinnest- burn time is 15 mins. Could that be doing the kind of damage we're seeing in short periods of 3-4 days without rain? But again, why then the patches of thriving grass from same conditions? I'm so confused...

If it IS fine fescue- isnt that what they use on golfing greens? I'm sure i watched a video on that & the guy said they kept it to a quarter inch on the greens. If so, then it can't be coz I'm mowing it too short (early theory).

Also, if i change seed now, wouldn't that just look terrible? Wouldn't i have a mix of the two & need to be cutting different lengths?

Well, you're about to seed tall fescue into fine fescue, so you're going to end up with a mix of two grasses anyway. Ideally you would want to kill all the fine fescue with glyphosate and then seed. Though they're both fescues, fine fescue and tall fescue are not at all similar. If your neighbor is able to successfully grow tall fescue, then stick with that. But make sure it's Tall Fescue (Festuca Arundinancea).

I think your troubles are coming from having fine fescue in full sun, it is more of a shade grass and will go brown when blasted by the sun. Tall Fescue can take full sun and rain every 3-4 days is plenty of water for it (and possibly a little too much).

Thanks.

I'll hold fire on buying the seed then & do some proper research. I knew nothing at all about grass when i moved here so trusted the landscaper without hesitation.

Hello again. So I called into Central landscapes this morning (who have supplied all the soil, seed etc) & discussed the problem. They agreed fine fescue was an odd choice unless a shady spot. Looking at the pics they said it's probably being cooked by the sun. So i think i need to change seed.
Before i can bring myself to either scrape off or kill the grass after SO much work, I'm booking in a lawn specialist they recommended to have a look at it. Hopefully he can tell me what seed to go for. Central thought either tall fescue (though i suspect we get too much water for that- see rainfall chart above) or a classic Rye.
If i want the Wimbledon lawn with shortish grass & lines, would you still recommend Perennial Ryegrass?

Some helpful quotes for a local lawn company- Zones:

"There are many other seed varieties, including Tall Fescue, which is a lush green carpet grass and is perfect for Auckland conditions. Fine Fescue, which is similar to Tall Fescue, but because it doesn’t handle humidity well, is not a good option for Auckland"

Are there grass types more suited to different areas of New Zealand?

"In general, Rye is popular in the north and US ornamentals are popular in the south. Auckland is tough on grass growing due to its humidity, so hardier grasses are more suited for this region."

Thought it might help

If i want the Wimbledon lawn with shortish grass & lines, would you still recommend Perennial Ryegrass?

Funny you should say that, the grass used at Wimbledon actually is Perennial Ryegrass. It is also used on a lot of football and rugby stadiums because it can tolerate a very low height of cut and lots of traffic. I think given your requirements and conditions Turf Type Perennial Ryegrass is the way to go. Don't worry too much about killing off your existing grass, Perennial Ryegrass establishes very fast.

Thanks, feeling a little better about it all now. Broke the news to my wife earlier about the wrong grass. She took it amazingly well actually.
I also spoke to Troy of Colossal who did the original landscaping. He said Rye & Fine Fescue are often found as a blend any way because they grow well together so he also recommended seeding but not removing what's there.

Great. Just be sure you're getting Perennial Ryegrass (lolium perenne) and not Annual Ryegrass (lolium multiflorum) aka Italian Ryegrass.

Hi j4c11,

I asked Central Landscapes which type their Ryegrass was and they didn't know. The bag just says 'classic Rye' from Prolawn.co.nz. Their website says:

Prolawn Classic Rye Blend puts together a blend of premium qualityfine turf type ryegrasses. A dark green colour producing a strong turf sward for high wear areas with good performance under drought conditions.

Sowing rate is 5kg's per 100sqm.

Available in 25kg, 5kg and 1kg packs.

Since Central's a reliable gardening company & supply quality stuff & it's a NZ grass seed company, i figured it's probably the type i need. But just in case, what would happen if it turns out it's not? Thanks

Can you please tell me:
- Was my de-thatching & airating a waste of time & money given the amount of soil & seed laid down?

- Will the buried fescue be a problem for the lawn?

- Do you think I've put down the right Rye grass?

Lastly, i'm concerned that my soil is uneven. I was going to hire a roller but i googled advice & found everything was saying not to. Besides I didn't have time with all the last minute camp prep. Now that I'm back it's been around 10 days since seeding & there's heaps of new shoots everywhere. What can i do? Is it too late to address? One site recommended using a roller with half the water or less (lighter) in the winter when the soil is soft but not muddy. Since my lawn has only a thin top layer of new soil, i thought maybe a half-filled roller would be ok to use now. Would it kill the new growth? Another site recommended using a spirit level & wooden board & using the same technique as for concrete. What would you do? I have a couple of days before returning to work & the soil is still fresh & largely exposed so now's my chance!
Thanks as always

But just in case, what would happen if it turns out it's not?

Based on the description I think you're ok. Annual ryegrass is just that, annual, which means it would die off after 1 season. It also doesn't look that great, it's mostly used as temporary ground cover.

Was my de-thatching & airating a waste of time & money given the amount of soil & seed laid down?

Probably. Typically what you would do is kill the existing grass with glyphosate, run a dethatcher to rake up the dead grass after a couple of weeks, then seed. A light covering with compost or peat moss will help keep the seed moist.

Will the buried fescue be a problem for the lawn?

I don't think so. Worst that can happen is some of it pokes back through, but it was struggling as it was, I doubt it will successfully outcompete the ryegrass.

Do you think I've put down the right Rye grass?

I think you did, based on the product description.

Lastly, i'm concerned that my soil is uneven. I was going to hire a roller but i googled advice & found everything was saying not to. Besides I didn't have time with all the last minute camp prep. Now that I'm back it's been around 10 days since seeding & there's heaps of new shoots everywhere. What can i do? Is it too late to address?

I'm glad to hear the grass is germinating well. When it reaches 3 inches, cut it down to 2 inches. Keep it at 2" for another 30 days after the first mow. Mow often. When the grass is about 45 days old you can start experimenting with higher or lower heights of cut to find the one you prefer. Ryegrass can take cutting heights of under 1". Once it's safe to walk on, fertilize weekly for the first 8 weeks using a quarter of the monthly bag rate. So if the fertilizer bag says 2 lbs/month, fertilize weekly with 0.5 lbs.

Regarding the leveling, it's too late now. Let the grass establish, and once it's got good roots you can cut it real short and do some leveling with sand. You don't want to completely bury the grass, so it may take multiple rounds a few months apart to get it to level. Here's a great video on leveling.

When 60% of the grass hits a height of 3" or more, mow.

Hey Simeon how's your ryegrass renovation coming along?

Hi how did the lawn turn out?