Sorry but this is not a very good plan.

Your coffee station is right in your work zone instead of the fridge and freezer.

Where will you put dirty dishes after dinner? And if you need to clean some dishes by hand where will they go? You need more room on either side of the sink as well as landing on either side of the range. You don't have nearly enough!

Here I did a drawing showing the progression of preparing and cooking food.

Red being taking food from fridge to sink. No problem there

Green taking washed food to prep. Hope you will have tile floors that you don't mind constantly getting wet from the wet newly washed food being transported across the aisle to be prepped.

Blue shows prepped food being brought to the range to be cooked. No problem there either but you don't have space to put the food down before cooking or taking it off after cooking. A baking sheet pullout is NOT wide enough counter space on the side of a range and especially not between a sink and a range.

Lastly I circled the orange. That is all wasted counters that will wind up being a drop zone for whatever from the hallway. Just human nature.

BTW, like your pantry, mudroom/laundry area.

Thanks for the input.

I realize the main issue is counter space between sink and range (and listed it as my #1 concern). Working around the existing window and exposed chimney has been a challenge, ideally I'd move the window over, but then I'm dealing with patching 110 year old brick and the side of the house will definitely look off.

Moving the range is problematic because I'll either have to demo the existing exposed brick chimney entirely (which I really don't want to do since its a primary feature in the kitchen that I really wanted to keep) or turn that counter run into 12" depth rather than 24". I have that now... and hate it. I liked the range there because it kept the brick intact but no longer wasted the space. Venting the range will also be harder since its not an exterior wall.

I initially had the sink and DWs on that wall you moved the range to, but it seemed really far from the fridge and crammed the 2nd DW into a corner which wasn't great. Plus there wasn't a good spot for silverware (and was probably going to end up using a single dishdrawer instead of a regular DW as a result). I'd also really have to keep the upper cabinets for dishes/glasses which would probably result in losing that second window.

Prep issues aside do I really need a big landing space on the sink side of the range? I have all that ("wasted") counterspace on the opposite side for landing space.

Front loading washers and dryers like those are fairly deep and fat. It maybe difficult to get into cabinets above without a step ladder. Also, front loading washers can shake like the dickens - I wouldn't want one touching the walls or the dryer. Generally speaking, the washer door would also be an issue for front loaders as the space to load clothes is more constrained when the door can't open fully.

Basket drawers sort of sound ok - except for the washer shaking thing until you look at the closeness of the bench and the missing side wall of the pantry. Those walls are usually about 5-6" thick with the drywall on. If you have a basket pulled open, where can you stand? The missing walls of the pantry also affect your aisle clearances on three sides of the pantry-closet thing.

So, be aware that you need to leave a minimum of 3" of slack (aka filler) at the ends of cabinet runs where both side stop at a corner. You only need to leave 1.5" of filler space on both sides of a corner tho, when both sides have cabinets. This is to allow the opposing doors and drawers to open properly, even in summer.

I would put my range exactly where you show yours and work outwards from there. I spend a lotta time at my range or on the counters beside it and I'd want the windows there. I'd look at what happens if the cleanup sink/dws are on the top wall leading to the hallway and the pan storage switched to where the cleanup sink was.

For me, I rarely use the laundry sink for any purpose - so I could be talked into a much smaller one which would give me some slack on the machine spacing. Or going naked without a devoted sink for laundry at all.

Same thing with closet AND lockers AND big storage bench.

These are just thoughts, remember that nothing is perfect and everyone is different. And to have some fun...

Other things I had considered were

1) Moving the sink down past the window which would look a little weird and be less central to the kitchen

2) Changing the island so its 8' long and seats 4 on one side and has a prep sink + prep space on the other side. But we have 5 in our family so that would rule out the kitchen for family meals together. Not sure how big a deal this is.

I had also played around with several different coffee and speed oven locations (including having them stacked together and in different locations). I liked this because it gave landing space on counter behind for the speed oven and it allowed the rest of the cabinets in the stack to be part of the wall of storage with the pantry door.

I drew the pantry shelves as 18" deep, intending them to really be 12-14" deep after the framing and drywall.

Honestly I'm not sure if the drawers underneath the washer and dryer will work out as envisioned, I've seen them online so I'm sure its possible, but have to discuss this with the cabinet people. The idea was to have enough space to stash at least two laundry baskets away hidden out of sight. The alternative would be to stack them and put a cabinet with a pullout that can hold two laundry baskets next to the stacked w/d. I'd prefer them side by side, but stacked is okay if needed.

I'd probably need 3" of filler next to the washer to help with the door opening, its drawn as 30" but in reality the machine is 27". The dishwashers and main sink sizes are fixed, but the rest could be modified. So there's cushion.

I do want the laundry sink ideally, it could definitely be smaller but orienting it with that window without looking bad was giving me trouble. Was thinking maybe center the faucet on the window rather than center the sink itself?

The main reason we are building this expensive addition is because of a lack of storage space (which is understandable given the age of the home), hence all the storage but the sizes of the lockers and bench are negotiable.

It's still a bit of a haul from the fridge to the prep area (11') but I think that would minimize the other issues?

Could use the end of the island for drawers and have them 18" deep (so effectively ~15" interior space, which is what I need to fit the serving platters and bowls I had to move).

Maybe try envisioning the laundry sink centered on the wall where the dws are - evenly between the windows? It really doesn't have to be right up against the machines. Then it could double as a prep sink - as I said, I don't use my laundry sink at all since I discovered the joys of the hand wash cycle. If I did use my prep sink to say wash a dog, I just wash it out afterwards.

With cleanup on the top wall, combined with dish storage, you'd have a pretty clear prep area on the long wall with good access to food storage and dishes for serving, while also letting helpers set/clear tables without getting in your way. Dunno if any of that would work for you.

It still wouldn't minimize the fact you do NOT have enough landing space between the sink and the range! 9" or whatever it is is not enough. Ideally, you'd want at least 18". And yes it would be a huge haul to the prep sink with the island almost being a barrier.

Well it 6" of 12" deep counter and then 10" of 24" deep counter between what's now become the cleanup sink and the range. So it's 16" of counter, sort of. Obviously, its kind of an awkward space but this isn't new construction and I don't have free range to move everything around.

Removing the brick bumpout would make things easier, but it kind of kills the whole character of the room and probably involves some costly structural work to boot.

I have plenty of space on the opposite side. I also have plenty of space behind the range on the island. The range is also 48" and there is going to be landing space on top of the range 360'ish days a year.

I understand its a guideline violation, but is it really that critical? Do I really need that landing space to the left of the range? Why is that such a problem?

Yes you need the space to the left. Think of as you cook, putting your ingredients down or moving something off the stove to plate, etc. I don't know about you, but I use both sides of my stove.

Now here is another idea for you. This gives you space on both sides.

Realize that 70% of your time is actually spent prepping. I believe it's 10% on cleanup and 20% on actually cooking?

The majority of prep time is not spent at the sink. It's spent at the counter cutting, dicing, chopping, etc, etc.

So here I moved the clean up sink and DW's to the right of the stove, and added a prep sink to the left of the window. This way you would be PREPPING in front of the window.

Also if you don't like the cleanup sink so close to the stove, another thought is to have one of the dishwashers to the left of the prep sink, so then dirty pots, etc could be put in there.

I think the guideline is at least 15" next to the range, considering I have some limitations to work with, I think I'm close enough I don't find it to be ideal but neither is it a "must solve" problem. I mean I do have 16" of counters, granted half of it is only half depth.

I initially had the big sink + 2 DW on that wall. Also looked at splitting the dishwashers, but most people seem to think splitting up the location of two dishwashers is a mistake. The main reason I moved it off there is there just isn't room for storage of the plates, glasses, and silverware there, especially with the reclaimed window. I'm not hauling dishes and silverware across the room to put away. I'm pretty confident I spend 30-40% of my time in the kitchen cleaning up. I don't cook daily, but I do dishes daily. Sometimes twice daily. It's certainly the most annoying part.

To be honest, the windows aren't a great view on that side of the house. The natural light is nice, but the view is really just the side of my neighbors house. We live in the city, so the houses, while detached, are kind of close to one another and that's the worst side of the house by far (that is how I lived with a faux window 5 years without really noticing). The good view of our backyard/patio/playset is on the wall with the mudroom bench.

A reclaimed window--good news, and I think the range will look even more amazing with a window on both sides.

I remember your other thread, with the clean-up sink and DW on the top
wall, with the second sink/DW as laundry/scullery, which gave you two
prep spaces--both would now be in front of a window, and would still share the
trash pull-out. Separate DWs aren't ideal, but given the restrictions in
your older home, I would have preferred that to your new plan.

I like
cpartist's plan above, although I think I'd make both sinks full size,
and put the second DW to the left of the laundry/scullery sink, where it
could be left open during prep, to receive used utensils and vessels. I
would put a counter between the DW and W/D, for sorting and folding
laundry. Pots, pans, mixing bowls, and other cooking/baking vessels
could be stored in drawers between the scullery sink and range, with
glasses and cups in upper cabinets above the clean-up sink, flatware and
knives in the drawers to the left, and plates and bowls stacked in a
super susan.

I'm not hauling dishes and silverware across the room to put away. I'm pretty confident I spend 30-40% of my time in the kitchen cleaning up.

Of course you don't haul dishes across the room! You put them away in drawers in the island! So you turn around, put them away. Most of us are huge advocates for drawers over doors in our lower cabinets. You get much more usable storage and lifting up is usually easier than trying to pull down.

Or you can do what Mama says which to me is even better. I think with mama's revisions she nailed a layout that will work beautifully in your old home

As always appreciate the input greatly.

You think a Susan would work well for dishes? Have never had one myself but always thought of it as a place you stick bulky things you don't use much not stuff you use constantly.

I get the benefit of dishes in drawers but thinking a Susan wouldn't be so great?

Just wanted to chime in and say that 9" between the sink and stove would drive me absolutely batty. Since it's so close to the fridge I would want to use that sink and then be frustrated by the lack of room. Also, with a 48" range if you are cooking on that side you will absolutely want a little more space to set things down since it will be quite a ways to the other side of the stove. I do like MamaG's layout a lot. It does split up the DW's but again that would be less important to me than having more space between sink and stove. It also seems like if you are putting a DW along the upper wall in the drawing you could put some upper cabs there instead of shelves for the dishes.

Or you could use those funny corner drawer things for dishes... I don't think I would love a susan for dishes.

I'm not a lazy susan person. I'm using these drawers instead:

Shaker Grey · More Info

I'd seen the dishes in corner susan idea on a blog (I think), although IIRC, it was to encourage kids to set the table. I would think the heavier items like plates and bowls would work OK (in the absence of drawer space or upper cabinets), but in a sturdy super susan:

There's only 6 or 7" (it's hard to measure since the opening is outside) from the edge of the reclaimed window to the wall.

Obviously I couldnt run upper cabs the whole length of the perpendicular wall and have them overlap the window by 5" but would it look bad to run say 5' of 12" deep uppers to the ceiling and stop 4' or so from the exterior wall? I'd have to work out a cabinet arrangement with the sink in mind, but would something like that work or just look weird?

The island is mostly seating, it doesn't really have storage for much of anything other than trash/recycles.

I stopped the uppers 2' from the reclaimed window, then stuck in the shallow open shelves to fill the space, but those could be omitted. Would 2' work? I wouldn't stop them more than 3' from the window (edge of the super susan), then center them over the sink. Tall or stacked cabinets are appropriate in an older home with high ceilings.

You could do drawers on the island facing the range. Still close enough to the DW to put away dishes.

Dishwashers flank the cleanup sink which is a nice looking apron front (36" Kohler cast iron is what I was planning) which is, more or less, centered on the wall.

24" upper cabinets over one dishwasher hold dishes, 24" upper cabinets over the other hold glasses. There's 36" of space over the sink for either bridging shelves or cabinets that would be more raised off the counters framing the sink. These will stick out 12" off the wall, whereas there is only about half that gap between window and wall. There would be 2'6" from the upper cabinet to the window wall. Seems like that would be okay and not look too weird?

Trash/recycle area stays in island and is 15-18" deep x 22-24" wide, there is 12" or so of width left over for something. 36" wide drawer over top.

The second dishwasher is kind of close to the range, by my measurements the range sticks out 12" due to the bumpout and there is 6" of unused space left on the wall, so tight but not terribly difficult to load the 2nd dishwasher I think.

Silverware can be in a 24" drawer next to the corner. Access to this drawer and the second dishwasher at the same time is a problem. The blind corner will require a pullout that allows for a drawer over top or could just be closed off completely as dead space.

Laundry and prep share a 36" cabinet sink (some sort of undermount stainless vs a twin for the other sink?) Dog food gets stored underneath, dog bowls in the toe kick (or could put them in the cabinet next to washer and dryer)

Hanging/drying bar stays and ties into a single cabinet 15" deep by 27-30" wide upper cabinet. Space over second sink is open? Will this look ok?

Remaining cabinets (~68") between sink and laundry cabinet can store the small appliances, gadgets, platters, etc.

Problems I have concerns about

Functional

*The blind corner with the dishwasher is tight, limits access to the silverware drawer and dishwasher at the same time, and requires either some blind corner pullout contraption or losing the corner outright. I don't like giving up storage, but I think I have enough already its not tragic? Would a drawer dishwasher help here?

*are two 24" upper cabinets enough for everyday dishes and glasses? I measured my dishes and think it would be fine.

Cosmetic

* sink isn't under a window and one sink is right next to a window, i guess this is ok?

* have to put in two areas of upper cabinets that I'm concerned will look odd (have had trouble finding example pics of a similar setup). i had also gotten a little excited about having minimal uppers.

I think you'd have to measure carefully to see if the DW on the left of the sink could open all the way without brushing the stove. In a rental we were in, I had something similar and the DW would hit the edge of the stove when open. And no, I don't think a drawer dw will help.

Additionally it looks like you'd have to completely lose the corner to get good storage space. Better to lose the corner and have the cabinet to the right of the stove all drawers.

A trash drawer on the island will be useless. You need it where most of the trash is generated; at the prep sink.

Instead of a trash drawer there, I'd put a drawer microwave, or regular drawers for extra storage or...

Do you need a 36" wide cleanup sink? Could you get away with a 30" sink which would mean you wouldn't be quite so tight on that wall?

Silverware could be in a drawer on the island too.

I think 2 24" uppers for dishes and glasses should be ok.

No one will notice if the sink is at the window or not. I'm assuming you'll be making your 48" range the star of the show?

I've got 33 inches to the range so it's plenty to open (most require 25 to 27), but there is about 6" of dishwasher door that would just have a few inches between it and range and couldn't stand behind it. The half to 3/4 of the dishwasher would be easily accessible. That doesn't seem to be too bad to work with.

The sink could be smaller but ideally wanted a specific one which is 36". Don't think a few extra inches really helps here with this setup but could if needed.

I could swap the trash with the baking sheet pullout to keep it in prep area and use the island for storage drawers.

I agree closing off the corner to make it dead space seems the best way to go with this setup.

What exactly do you need two dishwashers for? What will you fill each one with?

I'm just concerned having both DW's flanking the sink will be tight there.

Mostly it's to handle overflow. I obviously don't "need" two dishwashers but I did want them since about half the time I do dishes (more or less daily, sometimes twice daily) they don't all fit and I have dishes leftover for the next load or to hand wash. So I often wake up in the morning and kitchen still isn't clean. Hate it. I just like things "done" not this feeling things are just less bad (I get enough of that at work).

I'll hand wash a pot or pan (admittedly sometimes I get lazy and DWer them) but I can't stomach the time I waste hand washing items that belong in a dishwasher. I just want room for all dishes to be done... every time.

I guess I could trim the sink down 3 to 6" and do a relatively big single bowl there and make the "prep" sink the "dream" sink (as much as any self respecting man can have a dream sink haha). Sharing it with laundry probably having a big double bowl would be a good idea anyway.

Would two apron front sinks look nice or too much? Was planning on the Kohler cast iron undermount.

With a 30" sink I *should* be able to fit a corner Susan again (it would be real tight to door with the side panel for dw) and I'd still have 15" drawers left on range wall.

Two apron front sinks would be fine. You could do the larger one for clean up and a smaller one for prep.

Personally I'd still rather have a longer drawer cabinet than a corner susan but you have to figure out what will work best for you.

The reason I asked about the additional DW wasn't to say you don't need one but to try and determine if it would again be better off nearer the prep sink like Mama originally showed it. :) But if most of the DW is dishes, glasses and silverware, then I'm guessing you can't split them. My thinking was that if you did put all your prepping dishes and pots and pans also in the DW, then you could easily split them.

I just had another thought! :) How about one full size 24" DW and have a second smaller one on the left of the clean up sink. Have an 18" DW on that side?

I'd block the corner in favor of the drawer base beside the range, and
keep the 36" sink and two DWs, if you're concerned about splitting them.
Also, I think two sinks of the same style will be fine, especially
since they are so far apart, and one is almost out of sight.

I have a 4 drawer base to the left of my DW, on the perpendicular wall. The drawers don't open in front of the DW, but I just pulled them out to check--they would both open fully over the bottom DW tray, even if it the tray was loaded with dinner plates. So, I could load either of the top two drawers from the bottom DW tray. My silverware baskets fit the bottom tray, and the removable silverware baskets also have carry handles, so I could remove them from the DW, and carry them across the kitchen to unload if necessary. I assume all DWs have that feature.

I think the 24" cabinets above the DWs will be fine for glasses and dishes, and a shelf above the sink will keep head space open, and can hold some of the frequently used glasses or cups, or you could have one of those pretty wooden plate racks:

This is a mock-up with two dishwashers:

ETA another similar pic, which has been altered to show 2 DWs and 24" cabinets above:

Two options for the upper corner:

Another way to do two dishwashers is to do one 24" dw and one 18" dw. If you get a quality 18" one, you can fit a lot in there! Plus also consider something called a lemans corner Link is just for the photo.

I continue to be grateful for all the thought you guys have put into this.

I don't think the 18" dishwasher provides enough extra space to be worth it. The best I could do with both a 18" dishwasher and 30" sink would be to get an extra 15" drawer stack in. It doesn't seem to provide me enough space that it really eliminates things being kind of cramped issue (I couldn't really stand in that space). It also gives me a significantly smaller sink, DW, and kind of kills the symmetry of that wall.

So here's what I got