I'll have to watch for that b/c off hand I can't remember if it went bare or not last winter. Do you think it would lose its leaves even in a very mild winter like in Houston area?

Yes

After loosing it's winter leaves In spring, the Live oak will put out new leaves that are more leathery than any Willow oak will put out. Willow oak leaves are not as thick and leathery as Willow oak leaves. And of course, you will be able to tell the Live oaks from the Willow oaks. Live oaks are so long lived and those in the south will tell you the difference for sure.

I don't think that the leaves look anything like each other! Quercus phellos is nicknamed Willow Oak for a reason.

Why don't you post a photo of the leaves for us? And tell us where the plant came from. There are a number of live-oak looking oaks.

The live oaks at the entrance of your subdivision will still have some of last years leaves. They are thick, leathery, evergreen and sometimes have teeth.

OTOH, willow oak leaves are deciduous and lack teeth, see my pic.

Even the often substituted Quercus laurifolia, with its small narrow leaves, is very different from a willow oak.

I hope that you share pictures of several leaves from both the trees at your entrance and the Q. phellos that you planted.

Live Oaks come in different variations- Virginiana, Fusiformis (Texas live oak) etc.

here is a pic of a Texas Live oak - it could be mistaken for a willow oak, however it's not, it doesn't lose its leaves, has thick leathery leaves.

The acorns on a willow acorn are rounded whereas the live oak fusiformis has a pointed acorn

@sam_md, I can say my tree does not have foliage like the Willow oak in your pic. I got the tree from a tree farm but it was a hectic time for them and since I wasn't familiar with a willow oak, just wanted one, it could have been very easy to sell me whatever and I wasn't the wiser. Now some years have gone by and I'm getting suspicious.

joeinmo

Your Texas live oak looks nothing like mine, which came from a nursery in Texas. Mine has foliage similar to, but not the same as Q.virginiana. I've seen Q.fusiformis on the Edwards Plateau, but none with foliage like yours.

Maybe the Texas sourced Fusi (that Kentrees has) has some more Virginiana genes in there? BTW, I am butting in here, I am not starting a new subject because my post has to do with these leaves that are looking like Willow and Live oaks. I have a "Bas*rd white oak tree" Or Durand oak from Mossy oak natives nursery in one of the Gulf southern states. This tree has Willow oak leaves which are very leathery. I have a Willow oak whip, it has soft leaves, but this Durand oak, has the same shape leaves as the Willow oak, but they are very leathery and tough. The leaves don't look like the tree in the pic on the Mossy oak tree site, showing how they should look, it just says "site plastic", meaning (to me) it's growth habit and leaves will look different depending on where it is growing, I was thinking, shade or no shade uphill or downhill, or something like that. I will gladly send some leaves to Joe, or anyone who may be interested in checking them out. But, I realize most folks won't know what's up with the tree. I just may send the Mossy oaks people am email. They may know something, but, there just may be some Live oak genetics in there, the Durand oak is a white oak family oak of unknown heritage, hence the name "Bast*rd White oak". Poaky1

thanks everybody for your input. I have not had the opportunity to take really good pics of both as well as a side x side one.

Joeinmo, my tree is too young and no acorns yet. Here are some pics

Here is bark cliseup

Canopy, I got on my knees to take photo pointing camera upwards

Foliage closeup

I have yet to take pics of live oaks at entrance of my subdiv

Live oak, Quercus virginiana.

Kentrees, you probably have a Virginiana, or a hybrid...most nurseries have no clue. But just in general the Virginiana tend to be a much wider leaf, and the Fusi much more narrow. There are a ton of hybrids in Texas

Bossy, looks like a willow - click the link below

Click here

Bossy the leaves are attached wrong to be a live oak. Too many close together on the branch. Am I right Joe? I hope someone knows what I mean, the placement looks wrong.

I don't know why I didn't think of this before. The last image Bossy posted shows a white oak, no bristles. Live oaks are white oaks. Willow oak is a red oak, it has bristles, or, since its foliage is NEVER lobed, a bristle at the end of the leaf.

poaky1

There's natural variation in live oaks, although probably not as much as other white oaks such as Q.alba. When live oak was first described it was thought that the younger more upright trees were a different species than the mature wide spreading ones. I've seen literally thousands of live oaks in my travels through the south and FL, and to me, the last images Bossy posted look like a typical, healthy, young live oak.

Bossy that looks like a pure Live Oak (Q. virginiana) to me! Certainly not willow. Willow oaks never get the occasional marginal spine, and their leaves don't curl under or recurve either. And the way the leaves are arranged on the stems just says 'live oak' to me. Live oaks are nice! You should keep it!

Sorry, I am certainly wrong then! I just thought the branch in the front in the above pic looked wrong, but, I don't have any Live oaks other than my 1 small Fusi and the smallish QMLO, certainly nothing that makes me know what a Q. Virginiana should be branched like. I thought they were in clusters along the branch instead of single leaves along the branch. Again sorry, my mistake.

Poakie q. Virginiana is CKA live oak

Sorry Bossy, what does CKA stand for?

Commonly known as

I'm very well aware of that Bossy, but you didn't know that. I've been obsessed with having a Live oak since I saw "Forrest Gump" years ago. I've even tried the original Southern Live oak Q. Virginia, of course they died in my yard, I even tried a "Late drop" Live oak Q.V. that is a special form of Q.V. it lived one winter in my yard, a very mild winter. That experience is what started this whole subject, thread. I've tried them all, and the Quartz mountain Live oak I have now (through the curiousity and generousity of Joe in Mo I have THE HARDIEST Live oak there is, and it made it last year, I mild winter, but, it will likely do fine in a -0F winter, we just don't know how low the tree can go. I ask a lot of questions to Joe in Mo like a newbie, but, my memory is crap, that's kinda why! I shoulda knew that pic was QV but, I thought the leaves were not right. It doesn't look like my 2 L.O.'s potted here, but you see the trees all the time. Later.

Poaky Im a little confused about what you're trying to say but in any case, if after this winter it turns out that tree is evergreen, it will be proof to me that it is a live oak, and I would gladly give it to you. It isn't that I hate it, its just than with a large property, there are so many oaks out there, that I would love to sort of collect different ones. q. virginiana is quite common in my area (b/c it does very well) but I just want different. Q. phellos while common in some areas, is one you don't see often and certainly not around me. I will be disappointed if my suspicion is confirmed. No biggie, Ill live thru it.

Bossy, it's most definitely live oak (Q. virginiana).

Now, what other oaks would grow well for you (I am preferential to evergreen)?

You might look up Quercus rhysophylla, the loquat-leafed oak. Or Quercus polymorpha, the Monterray oak. There's Quercus laceyi, the Lacey oak. Quercus oblongifolia, commonly known as the Mexican blue oak. These should all thrive in your region and remain evergreen.

Some of the Asian evergreen oaks would do well too, possibly: Quercus myrsinifolia, Q. glauca, Q. acuta, Q. salicina, Q. phillyreioides, etc.

Rats!

i have most of the ones you listed, including a teenie tiny Glauca. I've never yanked a tree before but this one I will. Maybe I can put it on CL 4 somebody to enjoy. I wi try to get another q Phellos. Since we generally have mild winters I have about 50/50 ev to dec..

You all have been very helpful.

Bossy, I am confused now also. I thought I explained myself clearly. I just thought that you were thinking I was unaware of what a Q. Virginiana was by the post you made that Q.Virginiana is CKA (commonly known as) Live oak, and I just said I knew that, etc. Me wanting one since I saw the movie "Forrest Gump" which is filmed in the deep south and has Q. Virginiana trees galore in the movie. No biggie, sorry if I confused the subject any Bossy. I meant no harm etc. And again my post about the leaf arrangement being wrong, I am likely wrong, all I have to go by are my 2 potted Fusi's, one a Texas Fusi, and 1 a Quartz mountain Fusi. The leaves on mine (smaller than any you likely see that are Q. V.) have leaves that are arranged differently. They are still babies. Bossy, I hope we're cool. Your input is of value to me, and so is Joe's. I am likely to make many incorrect posts, I need to learn alot about growing any form of Live oak, and appreciate the info from you (bossy) and Joe. That's my best explanation guys. And me trying them all, I meant the trees closely related to the Q. Virginiana, as the Q. Fusi and the Q. Fusi (Quartz mountain Live oak ) are. If the other Live oaks mentioned ( by you Bossy) are related to Q. Virginiana, I didn't know that. But, when I said I "tried them all", I meant the Q. Virginiana relatives, barring the small shrubby ones from the Texas scrub bush dry places. BTW, Bossy I have a Willow oak here, so you can (winterwise) definitely overwinter one. Mine is a slow grower here, not sure why. I have another one that deer rub has killed down to soil level. Later guys. Poaky1

we cool, man, we cool, ha.

For those who might not know (I didn't) Texas fusi = quercus fusiformis. Had never heard of that quercus before. Poakie, I see that my confusion was regarding your TX live oak, referred to as "fusi". I am straight now.

Joe, is the Q.M.L,O. more cold hardy than plain fusi? Sorry, I have asked before, but, now, gimmie an answer.

Poaky, yes

Thanks Joe, I thought so, but wasn't quite sure. Yes, I should'a known.

For what it's worth,

Q.M.L.O. = Quartz Mountain Live Oak = Quercus fusiformis, (or Quercus virginiana var. fusiformis, depending on which taxonomist you speak to) that is among the northern-most populations (and presumably the hardiest) of 'live oak' in western Oklahoma.

Even the term 'live oak' is deceptive, as it can refer to a number of evergreen oak species...coast live oak, sand live oak, shrub live oak, dwarf live oak, canyon live oak, interior live oak, etc. Probably best to use the actual species name.

You know Bossy, I didn't start this subject or thread about Live oaks, I got this thread mixed up with the "Most successful try at Live oak", which I did start about me trying Live oaks here in Pa. I feel like such an ass, with good reason, I might add. For so long, I had just been posting on that "Most successful try at Live oak" thread with Joe in Mo, that I wasn't realizing I hadn't started on the "Distinguishing between Live oak and Willow oak" thread, well, THIS here post. Sorry, But at least it helped you (Bossy) to hear about their being a Q. Fusiformis, maybe I helped somehow. I had posted on this thread or post because of my confusing leaves on my Bast*rd Live oak, which are thick and leathery, but not like Live oak exactly. Anyways, I am sorry for the mixup.

UPDATE: as you probably know, the weather had been crazier than crazy. I am seating in my patio, wearing shorts and looking at a so/called q. Phellos which has not dropped any foliage. Would it be possible that dormancy had not kicked in due to 70/80 degree weather?

On a separate note, I have a young red oak which lost most of its leaves in late October during week long cold spell. Then it's been mostly springlike and the tree got of set of new foliage. Unusual for me.

Pics taken today

Bossy if you want an unusual oak for Tx, Chisos Red Oak Q. gravesii. Mine produced a handfull of acorns this year. If they sprout you are welcome to one. Leaves turn a red in my alkaline soil.

So it was definitely a live oak?

I suspect it is, ed Lincoln, looking pretty evergreen to me.

Tjyars i have a chisos oak which I adore. Its health was compromised during the 2011 drought but it's still with us. I love that tree.

nothing wrong with live oak but I am disappointed b/c it's common in my area and I really wanted something not easily found in my county, and q. Phellos is one of them. Rats!

Sorry for all the crap above again bossy, I was likely drinking. I would say that is definitely a Live oak. Leathery thick leaves curled slightly on the sides, light gray bark, lotsa dark green leaves still present. If it was a Q.Phellos I would think that less daylight would've made it loose leaves if temps were still high. Unless Q.Phellos is called semi-evergreen in the south.

It is semi evergreen in the south so I think I would have had SOME foliage loss--I've got nothing.

Looking at your pics I would say I REALLY think you have a Live oak there. Just be happy with it, it is a nice tree. I will not envy you in about 6 months, but, enjoy your beautiful Live oak in your shorts now Bossy. My Live oak is wrapped in christmas lights, it's 32F now, will be about 22F all day tomorrow, my potted little Live oak is in a makeshift greenhouse now, tomorrow my butt will be in thre house watching TV NOT leaving the house. Unless our weatherunderground channel gave a inaccurate forecast. It wasn't supposed to turn like that, but we don't get "the weather channel" so I will just protect the potted LO tree anyway in case. Seriously Bossy Live oaks are iconic trees of the south, unless you have no room for any other trees, why not grow one? I haven't read above, you may have 20 more in your yard. Enjoy your nice winter, btw, do you ever get any winter to speak of bossy?

Definately a Live Oak, it looks like all of the others around here, foliage is usually darker than other oaks.

Someone further up mentioned bristle tips on the leaves, but I have found that some Live oaks do have them and others are completely rounded, even native trees out in the woods.

Poaky, I will get over my disappointment. It is growing quite well,