I don't have anything great to add yet, but the Live oak "Late drop" in the first picture of this thread has put out 7 inches approx. this season. My Q. Fusiformis is looking nice at about 14 inches tall. The other 2 late drop Live oak only pushed out a few inches so far, but look ok anyway. My Durand oak may be a hybrid, or not. It has kept it's foliage from last growing season and over the past winter and is still holding the same leaves. The leaves are shaped like the thin holly-like leaves of some live oaks.

My Q. virginianas are loving this wetter summer. Some summers the newer later growth tips will wilt and dry up in mid-July and August. This season they've never looked better. Tallest one is about 15 feet now.

Also, the Ubame oak is really looking good too. I think this might be a tad hardier than virginiana and I think it's a more handsome tree -- at least the leaves are nicer. I've never seen a really mature Ubame, so can't comment on the mature tree form compared to Southern live oak.

My Chinese evergreen oak is putting out a huge new flush of burgundy leaves from the steady rains. Love to see this! New growth seems to be larger in leaf size than the Spring flush.

My Q. Virginiana "late drop' is about 8-9" new growth . Not much more than my last post in other words. Joe in Moe that is great that yours is doing good. I just hope that I can get close to 2 feet on my Live oak late drop by the end of the season. I am happy about my Durand oak being evergreen for almost a full year also. I am also glad my oaks have stayed free of oak wilt, with me adding oaks from Arizona and Louisiana also Florida, and having no problems. My other Late drop, Live oaks are looking good but aren't as impressive as the one in the first pic on this thread. There is another that is putting on a little more growth. I will post updates in the early fall after they all have put out all the growth they will for the growing season. Joe in Moe let me see in pics, how your Live oak has done also. Just to clarify, your above pictured Live oakj is growing in Missouri?

Poaky, I live in extreme SW Missouri, about 30 min from Arkansas border, 45 min to Oklahoma border, 5 hours to the Texas Border. Missouri can range from zone 5 to zone 7a depending if you live in the northern part to the southern part, generally most anything south of I-44 is considered the southern portion. We are considered mid-south or southern plains, although we live in the Ozark Mountains. Missouri Borders Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska and
Kansas on the north side of the state and borders, Kentucky Tennessee, Arkansas and Oklahoma on the Southern side, there is a huge range of plants, trees and temperatures and climate from one end to the next. Northern part of the state is prairie and flat, gets significant snow cold winters and mild summers and looks like Iowa. Southern part has hills and Mountains and has little snow if any, has oaks, maples, cypress, magnolia etc., has mild dry winters and hot humid summers. So think southern or Tennessee-like. Yes the Live Oaks I have are here in Southern Missouri.

I sent you a photo of a new spurt of 8" growth on my tree from the past week.
Overall, depending on which one of my 3 live oaks you look at, I have had between 12" to "18 inches of new growth, with at least 4 more months of good growth opportunity.

{{gwi:337822}}

Looks good Joe, My Q. Fusiformis has gotten wider, but not much taller than 8-10 inches. It has put out 2 side branches.There is no doubt that Q. Fusiformis is zone 6 hardy, but grows slowly. My "late drop" Live oak are still the same as my post 1 -4 days ago. I caught another "late drop" Live oak that had gotten pinned to the ground accidentally. It was still securely rooted in the ground and I was able to right it up and it looks salvageable still. You said you have another 4 months of growth. I have about another 2 1/2 to 3 depending on weather patterns. Sometimes October can be mostly mild, and November being when things get seriously cold. I guess it will be a wait and see thing. I'll try to get a couple pics of those that have been in the ground since last season.

I have a pic of the Live oak late drop in the 1st pic on the thread. {{gwi:337823}} It is the tallest plant against the wood fence backdrop. My Durand oak that kept it's leaves is here {{gwi:337824}}

The Live oak against the wood fence has put out 8-10 inches so far this season. There are lots of plants in the photo, but it is the tallest. There is a Rhody and Sweet woodruff behind it. The last pic is my 2 year old Durand oak. It kept it's leaves last year until present. Last winter was persistent cold but no horrible extreme cold. I have yet to purchase a weather station though.

They look good, the late drop looks much bigger.

I'm going to look up the Durand Oak

The "Late drop" is probably a Q. Fusiformis X Q. Virginiana hybrid. My Durand oak is a white family oak, zone 6 +. Possibly related to Live oak. I got it from Mossy oak native nursery.

I was thinking your late drop was Fusiformis and Virginiana too, fast grower.

Here is a photo of my baby acorns on my Fusiformis, approximately a 4 year tree or so.

{{gwi:337825}}

Joe, your live oak is ahead of all of mine. My L.O. in the fenced/protected zone is due for another vertical growth sprout, but yours is more developed certainly to be making acorns. I will take more pics in late Aug or Sept. Maybe Oct. Whenever the last spurt gets unfurled.

Poaky,

Not sure how old your live oaks are, but mine are 4 years now, so look for yours to start producing acorns at about that age.

Joe, My Q. Fusiformis is about 4, well, 3 1/2 years in my yard. My Q. V. X Q. F (or) AKA Live oak Late drop, were planted Spring 2012. I also added 3 or 4 more this spring. I put them in my lower yard, which may be colder than the 3 in my upper yard. Sorry to repeat myself, but the late drop are already taller in one year than my Q. Fusiformis. I will take a better pic of the plain Q. Fusiformis when the growing season is nearly done.

Looking forward to the pics, I guess these Fusiformis love the heat and grow faster out here

My Q. Fusiformis that was only 2 inches tall is about 14 inches tall or more, and getting side branches. It's a big deal to me, so humor me. Other Live oaks are still growing. I will try to take better pics of end of season growth, it's hard to see the trees in some of my pics. Maybe my brother can hold some paper again st the back of the trees, so you can see them good.

looking forward to it

I finally got up-to-date Live oak pictures for Sept 2013. The first one is the one in the protected area that I planted in Spring 2012. {{gwi:337827}}DSC00336_zpsbde8063b.jpg"/>

The next 2 are 2 separate L.O Late drop from my dog yard {{gwi:337829}} The next one {{gwi:337832}} This last one is a new spring 2013 transplant, but there are 2 from spring 2012 that I thought died, and they are the 2 small green things about 3 inches tall in front of this tree pic. And then my Q. Fusiformis from winter 2010 is in the last picture here, it had died back to the ground twice and is now about 2 ft as the last picture shows. {{gwi:337834}} I have 3 more of these( the Late drop L.O) in my yard but they are spring 2013 transplants. I shouldn't have shown the one yr transplant, I may have to move it and let one of the babies in front grow up, I am giving a friend one of them in fall, though. I hope I haven't jumbled the descriptions together, and it is understandable.

Basically I have 2 late drop live oak that are approaching winter #2, besides the tiny 2 in front of the spring 2013 transplant with the black fence around them. I think I will move the babies instead of the taller whip that has some height to it. If my other Late drop L.O make it through this coming winter I will update in spring. Joe (or anyone in zone 6 ) How is your L.O doing after this growing season?

Poaky,

They Look great, I will update with pics of mine soon.

Poaky,

Another winter coming on, I will get some pictures posted when all the other trees lose their leaves but my live oaks still are nice and green.

Probably late Nov or Dec.

I know Joe, I am worried a little about the live oaks not surviving this winter. They did great last winter, but it was a rainy winter last winter, what if this winter isn't? Well, I guess that's what watering cans are for. While they are small it's easy. My "late drop" live oaks did better than my Fusiformis. The 3 I have of Fusiformis died back to 3 inches this past winter. Well, anyway, I am looking forward to your update photos, if you have time to post, no hurry, whenever you can get to it. I will add one thing, all of my Late drop L.O. have more spikey leaves than when they were planted spring 2012. They arrived with no leaf sinuses, and releafed in spring 2013 with the holly looking shape, I guess that is what they call "site plastic".

Poaky,

I think might have a slightly colder winter without any sunspot activity.

Yes mine have gotten spiked too, but as the tree gets taller, the lower leaves stay smooth.

I just found this after posting about Compton's Oak and whether or not it ends up evergreen.

I'm a zone warmer, so it might be worth it for me to try Fusiformis as well as the "late drop" which must be the one that Nativ Nurseries sells??

However, you NEVER see a true Q. virginiana around here. In DC proper, yes (there are some at the National Arboretum) but not here.

The closest thing to an evergreen oak I've seen here is a Q. hemisphaerica (not sure I'm spelling that right and too lazy to google) and it does end up bare by February usually.

Hairmetal,

Try the Fusiformis and even though you live in USDa z7, thats an average, these trees love heat.

Check out your heat zone below

Here is a link that might be useful: Heat Zones

My heat zone is either 6 or 7, but I can't zoom in close enough to be sure.

Cold isn't the only thing trees have to endure. My virginiana was growing just fine, passed though a few winters and getting size. Then, it got crushed by Fallen trees thanks to Sandy. Have another containerized one for the Spring.

Hairmetal, my Compton's oak about 40 ft from the house remained evergreen until the next spring. I have 2 more that lost their leaves by December. If you decide to buy from Mossy oak natives Nursery, you will need to spend about $20.00 approx., as a minimum, so you can always try the "late drop" Live oak, they are cheap enough that if you lost out I think they are $5-$6 a tree, so no big loss. I only know of one source of Q. Fusiformis, Oaks of the wild west in Arizona. My Q. Fusiformis have all lost their top growth over the first winter down to 2-3 ". One has done this twice, and in it's 3rd year it is shorter than a first year seedling of the Late drop L.O. It's your choice, the Compton's are nice so far, but if you have room to try the late drop, if mine did ok this past winter in zone 6 you should be fine. The Compton's oak champion in Virginia is as big as most Southern live oaks, but the branching pattern and texture are not the same as the Live oak, I can only guess the Late drop will have the structure of the true Southern L.O.

I forgot to add shipping turned the $20.00 price on the 4 Late drop live.o I ordered to $30.00 for the 4 trees

Njoasis, I know it's possible that snow can cause a lot of damage to live oaks, but the much weaker white pines we have have been damaged, but not torn down by some really wet heavy snow over the 40 years in our yard. It is good that you have shared your experience so people can judge if they want to risk it. But it was the OTHER trees that fell down on the live oak. I am worried about my Magnolia grandifolia when it gets larger, having enough wet snow to make it loose limbs, but the L.O. has fine leaves and I don't think will have as bad of a time with snow load until kit gets thickly foliated.

If you are in zone 7 or higher, the live oak tree should survive regardless of snow load. I would agree, grandifloras may be more sensitive to snow loads but this depends on the variety of grandiflora--some are very vulnerable, others are just not damaged (in my experience).
Growing a Live Oak in zone 6 is really pushing it. Good luck with that. I have usually seen them listed as good to 7, but even so, I don't see any around me. But, this is sometimes due to lack of availability and gardening traditions. There is a beautiful, big, long leaf pine on my block which is also listed as good to Zone 7, but I never see them either!

"If you are in zone 7 or higher, the live oak tree should survive regardless of snow load. "

I don't know about this blanket statement. Zone 7 would mean Martha's Vineyard. It is solidly zn 7 but I would doubt there's one at Polly HIll. It's just that the summers aren't very warm, probably not warm enough to harden the wood of a live oak. Even in the zn 7 suburbs of DC, Balto., northern Delaware, etc. Magnolia grandifora is clearly orders of magnitude more prevalent than live oak. Yes it's a more marketable tree perhaps (the magnolia I mean) but if live oaks were plenty hardy, we'd expect to see more of them. I really think they are only 7b hardy in their normal form...and with respect to "big tree hardiness" when you really don't want to have a massive die off of the top. (clearly for a shrub, or even something like a fig or pomegranate, you care less if it dies back to the ground) The last place in Virginia they are common is Williamsburg. Of course some forms could be hardier. Some of the ones in Williamsburg were singed by 0F in 1994. (and the less hardy Asian oaks like Q. acuta looked really bad)

There used to be a live oak at Hill's Nursery in Arlington, VA. Looked OK but when Mr. Hill was consulted by Lady Bird Johnson for planting a live oak at the White House, he planted a Quercus myrsinifolia! If you have access to the Washington Post archives search "Hill's Nursery live oak" and you should find the article from the 1990s about their history in DC. The "City of Trees" book also has something to say about the subject.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://arnoldia.arboretum.harvard.edu/pdf/articles/2013-70-3-the-quest-for-the-hardy-southern-live-oak.pdf

BTW, with this thread becoming unwieldy, I recommend we start a "PART 2" version of it.

Honestly zones are just a guess. You have USDA which is mainly gardenening, you have Arborday which is mainly trees, you have heat zones, sunset zones etc.

I am in 6b USDA, but 7 Arborday and my heat zone is 7 southern here in SW Missouri. In addition, there are a few varieties of Live Oak. Late Drop, Fusiformis etc. - If you have a Fusiformis it will be ok in 6b, it might grow slowly in a low heat zone, it needs heat.

Live oaks are among the strongest oaks in the United States, they can survive snow cover, in addition their leaves are small and won't carry much load.

I am only heat zone 6 and Hardiness 6. I am happy with my spring 2012 planted live oaks. Hybrids of Q. FusiformisX Q. Virginiana. They are showing great growth from 2013 spring growth all the way too the current fall season. I think that my Live oaks will do great in zone 6, in full sun zone 6, compared to partial sun zone 7.

Ok, All I can say 100% is that my Live oak-Late drop _ Quercus Virginiana, has done great in zone 6 Pa in winter 2012-2013. It held on to it's leaves until May 2013. It started to bud out in May 2013, but the weather wasn't ready to be steady enough to not destroy the new buds until some weeks later.

I can't say all tender growth trees have adjusted to some colder areas, but some have, so why not try some if you want to try?

Poaky,

How are Fusiformis and Late Drop doing this fall?

I'll probably get some pics out when all other trees have lost their leaves :)

Good to hear from you Joe in Mo. So far my Live oak "late drop" trees, 3 of them on year 2 in-ground, look nice and green yet, as of November 1, 2013. My other 4 planted this past summer are okay.. Anyhoo, I hope my potential hybrid live oak "late drops" are okay in a colder zone, being "zone 6". I hope I didn't make a mistake in listing how many trees were successful, so far. I will just say all is fine so far. I am confident that the newbie Live oak "late drop" will be hardy, just like my original 3 Live oak "late drop"

I forgot to add that the plain Q. Fusiformis is still green. It will not be stressed (and the "late drop" live oak also) won't be stressed until late December and January, also February, March. Once April comes around, the Live oaks may put out some growth that will be ruined by spring frosts. May, likely middle to late May it will be safe for new growth, to not be ruined by late frosts.

Hi Poaky,

Glad to hear all well, mine are all still green, except one that might have gotten too much water has a couple yellow leaves here and there.

The 4 new Live oak "late drop" I ordered in October were yellow leaved on arrival. I think they will look fine after next spring leaf-out. When I tried regular Live oak a few years ago ( from Virginia ) it looked fine until about December, approximately.That is why I mentioned me not counting some cold until about December and forward, to get too happy that the trees may be fine until spring. I will be happy if they're green in January, of course, but there's always a chance for unexpected lows. I just looked over this whole thread and I haven't posted any pics of the Q. Fusiformis you asked about. I will post it, this was an end of summer 2013 pic of the Fusiformis. {{gwi:337834}} The tree died to the ground after the first winter, came back and did great in winter #2. Then died back over winter 2012-2013, and over the 2013 growing season it grew up about 18 " more than it's 3" at the start of spring 2013. So it looks okay, but if it dies back again, I already have a "late drop" planted near it, just incase.

I have 2 other Q. Fusiformis I forgot to mention because they died back the first winter and are now about 3" tall, really disappointing compared to the "late drop" LO. I found an old post I made that I had mentioned some teens in Jan and Feb, so I guess if they're still green in late Feb, I can get happy.

Poaky,

Very interesting about the die off and grow back of the Fusiformis. So the late drop LO are what combo of hybrid?

Poaky,

Was thinking about Fusiformis die off during winter, I think the stem stays tender longer, while your latedrop probably turns a bit more woody. I think if you cover the Fusiformis this year with a large pot when you temps get below 15 degrees, next year they will be "woody" enough to survive next winter.

JoeIn Mo, I had thought that the Q. Fusiformis would be the tough one. You know that the tree with that name would survive in tact compared to the "late drop" Q. Virginiana, It seems as though the Quercus Virginiana "late drop" is really the better tree to try in my zone 6 yard, where it has dropped to -8 F for one night. I can only guess what the Live oak "late drop" are genetically. I had guessed Q. VirginianaX Q. Fusiformis. It is not mentioned on the Mossy oak natives web site what it is, but is mentioned that it is a possible cross breed or back-cross of other live oaks. I just assumed it was Q. V X Q. F, because of the leaf form being really close to the 2 live oak I mentioned being a possible cross. I am sorry if I guessed wronge.

Nothing big to add yet, but I will just add that on the Mossy oak natives website, there is a brief video of the "late drop" live oak MOMMA tree in the background, but unfortunately it's in a wooded area and just a tall evergreen oak in a wooded lot, so I know it isn't a scrub live oak, but you can just ASSUME that in full sun it will look like what you imagine a live oak to look like, of course, meaning wide spreading shade tree. I want to add that I gave my best friend 2 of these "late drop" live oaks in Sept 2013, planted them for her, because she is a possible zone 5b. She is at the foot of the Appalacian Mtns. I misspelled that probably. Her yard is brutal as far as wind goes. Her yard gets wind-blasted in winter. Much more than mine. I just need to get some critter detterent fences up for her. She gets lots of deer and rabbits, she is surrounded by woods. I hope the critters don't interfere with these live oaks before I can protect them. I am interested to see how they overwinter in her windy, cold yard this coming winter. I told her of course what I'm doing, in case they don't make it. I gave her wild evergreen Mags too.

Poaky,

Wow your really trying to stretch those late drop in zone 5b, lol.

I read about the late drop, appears to be Fusiformis/Virginiana hybrid but one that holds its acorns late into December. My Fusiformis are from acorns collected in northern Texas in late December.

Poaky,

In case you missed this on another post.

I gathered the acorns for this tree late Dec 2012, so it's not yet a year old. I gave it to a friend. It will stay in pot outside in winter unless gets down to 10 degrees or lower to prevent root ball freezing.

{{gwi:333894}}

Quercus Fusiformis extreme north Texas variety. I also have some Okahoma variations of the Fusiformis as well.

I never saw the above tree, and you mentioning it before. From what you mentioned, and I agree with, it seems our trees are of similar seed source. They mentioned (Mossy oaks) for Texans to take notice. I looked at my biggest of the 2 nicest late drops and the wood seems like it isn't limp and tender on either. I guess I should quit blabbering about it and see how it does in time, maybe adding an update in January, maybe the 15th of Jan. I want to thank David for the article. I got baby trees from one or 2 of those Virginia located Q. Virginiana before I tried the late drop L.O. They survived until around January or around-abouts then. My friends yard with the Late drop looks sad. Either the leaves are gone from wind, or beasts chopped them down. I never protected them. Yesterday I went to her yard but didn't know I would be beforehand, and brought no protection. It was dark so I could only say the headlights showed no leaves. My yellow leaved from the same batch late drops have their yellow leaves though. I will try 2 more in her yard in spring, if the present ones are dead. I will have to bring protection at planting time. I will start a new thread, or any repliers can. David I love the pics in your post, a couple trees were on the Virginia big tree website, but they were small pics. Those of the multiple trees (groves) aren't on the V big trees at all. They look healthier without the moss draped, but the moss in just some lower areas is nice. I recently saw a bigger pic of the champion Compton's oak, and am glad I have 3 of them, the pic someone posted shows the branching pattern, and it is really great.