You might get more responses in the antique rose forum since she is a old noisette. I am also interested in the answers you get.

Well, first of all, NO rose truly does well in deep shade. If by
"full shade" you mean on the north side of a building under an
evergreen, then it ain't happnin', lol. Describe for us the spot, what
is casting the shade, does it receive ANY sun, and what time of day?
Where are you? Shade in California is much different than shade in New
Hampshire. Are you going to grow the rose on a trellis or arbor, against a building, out in the open,
up a tree?

I will tell you now that MAC will tolerate SOME
shade, depending again on where you site her and where you live. But she
will not bloom well in deep shade, nor grow much either. You'd have
more luck with the wichuriana climbers and hybrid musks in general, but
even they won't bloom in deep shade. There are some glorious white
wichurianas, but alas, they're once bloomers (maybe a scattered few
blooms later on). There are some others you can find if you search
"climber, shade" on this forum and especially on the antique rose forum.

IF
there is sun anywhere near, most roses will grow toward it and will
bloom once they REACH the sunlight, which may take a while, and depends
on if the rose survives long enough ;) I've seen photos of MAC *planted* in
shade, and blooming 30 feet away, but these were probably planted when
the trees that now shade the rose roots were much smaller, and MAC grew
outwards and upwards as the shade grew.
John

edit: I second jasmine's suggestion that you post on the antique forum. But I'm afraid their answer won't be any more encouraging re: MAC. But they will have other suggestions, if only for something white blooming/shade tolerant that isn't a rose, lol.

Where are you, approximately? I am in zone 9/10 (different sources say different things) in No California, which has a 12 month growing season, and is evidently a perfect climate for tea noisettes, which is what MAC is. I hate to contradict John, but we have a MAC which I did (in my ignorance) plant on the North side of our garage, 2 feet away from a solid 8 ft tall fence on its other side, under a huge evergreen! It took it a while to get up to the top of the garage & fence - maybe a year or two. Then, where it had some sun, it spread out and got bigger. Then having established a base on the roof of the garage, it sprang over the fence and up another 20 feet or so up the evergreen! (see pics below).

We have another one which we planted at the base of an old 20 ft tall plum tree, in an area of our property which is sort of a forest of plums and an oak tree, and large ancient garden plants which have run wild. Not quite as dark a place as the first one, but definitely no sun down where we planted MAC. Within two years it had grown to the top of the plum tree. Then it went sideways over the canopy of the other trees and large bushes. You can see its blooms from all over the garden and from the inside of our house - they are so high up, and also drip down on both sides of the "forest".

Both of these bushes are now about 20 years old, and bloom 10-11 months of the year. It is the ONE rose I would definitely recommend for shade in a warm climate. Again, where are you? Tea noisettes do not take kindly to cold winters (our winters are usually in the 50s in the day & 50s or 40s at night).

Here is the base of MAC #1 planted on the North side of our garage - as you can see, it does get a bit of morning light from the East for an hour or so, but that's it.

Here is the top of MAC #1, the bottom of this pic is it growing on the top of our garage, then it lept up our neighbor's evergreen tree.

Here is the base of MAC #2, at the floor of our wild forest area. It does not get much lighter down there, which is why the MAC grew up into the canopy.

Oh, I forgot - here is MAC #3, which is only about 5 years old, and is growing on the South side of the same garage, in partial shade under a large old plum and a huge oak tree. It is only about 8-9 feet tall at this point.

lol...Jackie, you aren't contradicting me, you've 100% proved my point ;)

I meant not the part where you said she would "not bloom much in deep shade" - that is correct, of course. I meant the part where you also said she would not "grow much" in deep shade. Mine certainly did!

Of course, we don't know what Gan_di means by "full shade". See my MAC #3 (last pic) - she is blooming and growing, but not too big, in what I would call mostly shade with a bit of sun.

I let the others get tall and huge because that was the idea - this one I am going to try and keep mainly as it is, although I think it would keep blooming OK if I let it get a bit taller, say 10-12 feet, as the base of it is in more light than the others.

Maybe I'm asking for too much.

It is not a matter of "luck". Roses are plants for full sun (6+ hours daily). They are not shade plants.

hoovb - I have many many OGRs in my garden which get only 2-3 hours of sun per day, and at different times of year that might be dappled. They are all thriving and blooming fine. I think the "6 hour rule" is yet another example of what HTs demand being extrapolated to all roses.

Jackie

Jackie, a LOT of it comes down to the fact that you're in CA, and like I said, the quality of light and general conditions are more conducive to growth, under circumstances that would never work for more northerly growers like me. Even though my summers are probably just as brutal as any in CA, the summers are shorter, the sun hits at a more oblique angle and the winters take their toll, something you don't have to worry about there. MAC can lose a LOT of growth in the winter here, which would prevent her ever reaching the sun in some climates, such as my back yard. HERE, MAC will NOT survive for long in the full shade (from part-shade experience I speak), but MIGHT be able to climb into the sun before she expires if culture is otherwise faultless. If so, then it goes back to her not blooming UNTIL she reaches the sun. As for Marlorena growing it in shade, I'm sure it does well, but it again comes back to winter conditions. Her winters are NOT inland continental winters ;)

By the way, the photos I referenced of MAC blooming 30 feet away from where she was planted in shade are YOUR pix, lol.

We still don't know in what climate gan_di wants to grow MAC, nor the quality of the shade she's talking about. Zone 7 covers a lot of territory, and shade comes in a lot of flavors.

fig_insanity - I totally agree that local conditions make all of the difference, which is why I started out with an explanation of where I garden, and also mentioned the fact that tea noisettes are cold tender.

I do feel so lucky to be in a rose-friendly place. My MACs "culture" has not been faultless, it has been non-existent. I throw some osmacote pellets on them once a year, and they do get a tiny bit of water (instead of none at all) in our normal 6 month summer drought. That's it. They grow where they want to, and still bloom all of the time. Perfect for a lazy, hands off gardener like me.

I admire those of you who have to baby your roses, and take such care of them - I would not have the patience, or be willing to put in the work. My hat is off to you!

Jackie

Jackie, you have no idea how jealous I am of you and the CA cadre et al, lol. Tea roses are my great love. But then I remind myself of all the old once-blooming Euro roses that require just my kind of winter... it evens out, I guess ;)

...I don't mean to offend, and people can get very protective of their growing locales, but I do question the claim, oft stated, that California is a great place for growing roses, at least in the lower parts of the State and in the modern drought ridden age...

...I've only been to Los Angeles for a short visit and delighted in all the Bougainvilleas along the hedgerows, I wasn't looking for roses at the time so didn't notice any.... so I can only go by what I read on these forums, and when Jackie says it's a great place for growing roses, yet ''a 6 month summer drought'', that sounds like a contradiction in terms from where I am... and it does make me raise an eyebrow when I read of such extensive and elaborate irrigation systems people have there, in public and private gardens, seemingly almost daily usage, that if this wasn't available, how great would it continue to be...?

...am I right to question?...or not...

Not to detract from the original post but... California has alot of drawbacks for growing plants Especially the south part.

Drought being one. The 12 month growing season being another. Alot of plants simply can't grow for that long and remain healthy.

It's too cold for tropicals, too warm for temperate. Not enough cold for everything else.

And we don't get any rain for at least 8 to 10 months.

Northern California and Oregon are much better environments for roses than the southern parts are.

And all the guidelines for planting things don't apply here. And shade ratings mean nothing.

Hardiness zones are useless too. Heat and water tolerance would be much more useful information but the tags are usually written with the northern states in mind.

And I personally take issue with the idea that we have perfect weather all the time and no seasons. The fact is we have very distinct seasons that will affect plants in very extreme ways.

One must remember we're a desert. A coastal one, but still a desert. With an ecosystem that's designed to burn to the ground every few years.

Not a plant mecca.

Marlorena & ordphlen - I was only talking about where I live, as I think I said several times, not about "all of California", which would be ridiculous considering how big CA is. I live on the North end of the San Francisco Bay. We are about 6 blocks from the bay. Our "normal" annual rainfall is 35 inches, which is quite a lot, and certainly much much more than most places in Southern Calif get.

In this past drought, we got 15 - 20 inches of rain each year, which is very bad for us, but a lot for other places. As of today, we are at 28 inches YTD, which is probably it, as the "rain year" goes July 1 to July 1. Our water in my county comes from 7 local reservoirs on our local mountain. They are all full, and most were spilling by this past January. The state has even just admitted that we are not in a drought.

California, and even Northern California, is a very large place, with lots of very different climates. It is certainly true that many places in Southern California (6 to 10 hours in a car doing 65 mph on a freeway south of here) do have desert climates, but that is not the case where I live. We have a classic Mediterranean climate, I think similar to the South of France. Warm dry summers, cool very wet winters. Great rose growing country. I feel very lucky, as I said, at living here, where the warm weather loving roses (teas, chinas, hybrid giganticas, banksias, noisettes, hybrid musks, and many polyanthas) practically grow themselves. Of course, we cannot grow the old once blooming European roses, as they require more "winter chill" than they get here. I learned by trial and error, not by reading rose books (which as ordphlen says are useless to predict the size of roses, and contain guidelines for rose culture which may or may not be helpful here) what likes to grow in my garden, and what doesn't. Being lazy, I just plant more of the kinds of roses which like it here, and let them get on with it.

This Spring all of the gardens around here, and all of those I heard about in Northern California, had the best bloom in decades. Why? No one knows. I think it was because our rain started in Oct, and continued until about 2 weeks ago, coming every 7 to 10 days like clockwork.

Here is a small part of my garden last month:

I was agreeing with you jacqueline. And marlorena.

There's a vast difference in climate conditions across California.

By contrast this year we got 5" of rain.

My point was about my particular area. Which is not the plant paradise people think.

And I'm not even inland.

..my point is that, reading between the lines of members posts here, who live in various parts of California, including Jackie's, is that yes, wonderful rose gardens for us all to see and admire as the above photo illustrates admirably, but then almost in the same sentence it goes something like....''we have irrigation systems which get turned on every day''.... seemingly, despite any additional rainfall... or at least for much of the summer...

..perhaps this is considered a given and rarely questioned, as nothing out of the ordinary but I speak as someone who has never felt the need to irrigate an established rose in my life...

...but of course there are many huge old roses thriving on their own without intervention for a hundred years or more, I've seen some fabulous photos of them here, but things seem to have changed..

Many people from England come here and just plant things only to watch them die. They don't realise how often they need to water.

You guys get much more rain than we do so irrigation is necessary if we want things like roses.

Marlorena - Our normal rainy season where I live (and in most of CA) is Oct/Nov through May, or sort of. May/June through Sept/Oct is usually bone dry, even in a normal year, even in areas which get a lot of winter rain. NO "additional rainfall", in the summer, nadda, zip. Hard to imagine I am sure if you live in any of the many places where it rains on & off all summer, like England and the US East Coast, etc.

So, not only are gardens here irrigated, but so are all of the crops. Heard of CA as a bread/fruit/vegetable/wine basket? Without summer irrigation that would not be possible. As I said, we got plenty of rain where I live this past winter, which is stored in reservoirs, and then we can use it for summer irrigation. Of course, all drip or short soaker hoses between lengths of solid hose so that the water only goes on specific plants, and designed and constantly re-designed (at least in my garden where my DH likes to do that) to use the least amount of water possible.

My largest and oldest roses do not need much, it is true, so I can gradually wean them off the summer water. Many of my "companion plants" are bulbs from South Africa, which do not need or like summer water. Everything re gardening is local, local, local, so it is understandable that the situation here sounds so strange if you live in England. I laugh when I see gardeners from the US East Coast bragging on here that they do not give their gardens "any supplemental water". What they sometimes forget to say is that it rains once a week all summer where they live.

Jackie

Oh, I forgot to mention - our summer humidity is dry, dry, dry. Not at all like England, where as I recall it is moderate and lovely, or the US East Coast or South, where it is dripping. This makes the plants require more water also.

Jackie and ordphien, thanks for your posts, I have found them most interesting and informative... and I apologise if anyone thinks I'm putting them on the spot here, but Jackie, if I may take your case in point, and I think you have illustrated to me just what I'm getting at, that when you say your location in particular is a great place to grow roses, and your garden is always superbly presented, but it seems with the proviso that you have to irrigate most of the year...

...I think I read that the Sacramento Cemetery garden irrigates once a week, and maybe this is why Descanso dug out their old roses...

...so the question should be, where are the best places in the States to live to grow roses...? where you've got to irrigate or else the whole place would dry up? or areas where you don't..? I think that's an important question in this day and age..

Coastal Oregon & coastal Washington state - mild climate, and it rains on & off all year.

Some folks think it is too cloudy and wet for them, however...

Jackie

I'd like to see photos of roses growing in full shade, doing fine. Thanks. Maybe I just have different standards.

Marlorena, I have loved rose growing my whole life. I gardened in Minnesota z4 28 years, then 33 years in Alaska z3 before moving here to retire and garden. People try to grow roses wherever they are if they are a rose grower. Their best place might be where they were born, have a job, or by their family, or where their husband wants to go. I'm not sure being in a desert makes a cactus grower.

hi Sheila.... yes I know what you mean. Whenever I look for roses on HMF there is one place I keep seeing that seems to have every rose I'm ever interested in, and that's a lady called Marina, who gardens at a place called Amelia, Virginia. I sometimes think she has every rose imaginable.. every time I look, up she pops with a photo of the rose in question.

...so I can only conclude it must be a great place for roses, of all sorts..

Marina posts beautiful pictures, and I think that is a mild climate that may not have to deal with all the drought and drip watering hassle, or cold injury. The quality of the photography and the light quality can also color our perceptions of the rose growing potential in different areas.

I have an Eden planted where it gets maybe 4 hours of direct sun a day, from about 10 am to 2 pm. The rest of the time it is shadowed by a large plane tree that lives approximately 60 - 70 feet away -- so it is dappled, not deep shade. This Eden is only 1 year old and it is already over 6 feet tall and covered in blooms. Absolutely stunning, even in part shade.

I found this, it might help you. I just bought 3 New Dawn tonight for north facing wall. and a MAC is coming next week, for north facing wall too.

https://www.sarahraven.com/articles/right_rose_right_place_roses_for_north-facing_walls.htm