Where we live, at the dog pound, almost every dog in there could be labeled a "pit bull" or mix of this. I just read an article about a rescue that stopped putting the label of "pit bull" on their cages and found their adoptions went way up! Most people wouldn't know a pit bull from a boxer mix. They will just now put "brown and white terrier mix" or something like that. Most of these dogs are just mutts anyway.

Every pure dog breed has a specified disposition based on artificial selection.

American Pitbull Terrier's breeding origins came from fighting (bear & bull baiting) so their traits include fearlessness, aggressiveness, gameness, athleticism, loyalty and an eagerness to please. It's in their nature. They are also intelligent, so many Pits can be trained (nurtured) to not be aggressive.

Nature is a hard thing to overcome, so a Pitbull, no matter how lovely they are, will never be part of my household.

Lol, mtn. Six Degrees of Separation game.

" ... and don't bother to socialize / train them properly."

Dogs (not just pitbulls) actually need to go out into public places and have interactions with humans and other dogs in order to be properly socialized. If we want well-socialized dogs, we should probably allow them to become somewhat social.

Should we do away with cars, and do you only drive when there is no one else on the road?

tibbrix, I said absolutely nothing about eliminating dogs. In light of this discussion I was looking for some information and came across that web page. I found it to be sobering reading. If you found it not sobering then say so, but please don't say I said or implied things that I didn't. There's enough to *discuss* here with what's actually being said without adding straw man fallacies.

mtnrd, take a look at the Bridgeport Animal Shelter web site and you'll see plenty of pits available for adoption. While they may not be popular among the suburban set, they are ... or at least left to breed irresponsibly ... in the urban areas. And of course they are difficult to adopt out.

There are pits and there are pits. Some look like Petey, and some look like nothing but muscle and teeth.

Yeah I don't doubt that there are plenty in Bridgeport shelters. But in aggregate across all breeds, they are not even in the top 10... Making their heavy representation In your link all the more damning. That's my only point.

"Quite intriguing how people are permitted to generalize about other species than humans."

Yep. Humans can do that, because we are humans.

Pits are everywhere, even in NY and Conn...they get the bad rap because they are strong and when they bite it's a bad bite. Many of the rescues have come from a background of dogfighting, they will always be hard to trust.

"Quite intriguing how people are permitted to generalize about other species than humans."

Omigosh, I think we generalize about other humans way more than we generalize about other species, or at least as much.

mtnrd, I understand your point. I'm just pointing out the regional differences in dog popularity. From here:

Labs are far and away the most common dogs licensed in all but one of the 11 towns and cities analyzed: Bridgeport, where the breed comes in at No. 4, behind Pit Bulls at No. 1, Chihuahuas at No. 2 and Mixes at No. 3.

Pits used to be called nanny dogs. There was a time when many many kids had them. Google nanny dog. A lot of bad breeding has happened over recent years, same with Rotties. Idiots have made a big effort to breed the most aggressive for fighting and extreme guard dog situations. On top of that these breeds became popular with drug users and dealers. People like them made no attempt at training. The dogs were never socialized. Today these once fine breeds are often very messed up due to bad breeding and the rest.

There are people out there who are carefully breeding to bring these dogs back to their earlier glory but it will take a long time.

I really wish there were strict laws on breeding with pits, rotties and a few others. I would also like to see mandatory obedience classes when buying such breeds. Idiot people get these dogs and don't even bother to socialize them, they are often chained in a yard and or pen confined...so watch out if they get lose.

My pound is loaded with pits. It's sickening how people have messed these dogs up. Sadly, it's too risky to even think of a rescue when you don't know their history. I actually meet an aggressive pit puppy. It was tiny and (not playfully) tried attacking my Rottie.

Let there be breeding laws and strict permits for doing so.

I'm all for euthanizing all pit bulls and the people that wear perfume.............I'm with jellytoast on the perfume bit but Ok, let's just start with the pit bulls, which aren't really a breed after all.

Do you know how many people there are that spent their entire life not being able to even walk in a store that had a perfume counter or terrified to step into an elevator fearing that they could be trapped by some stinky person, which could put them in the hospital?

I am curious what some of you who believe a dog's rights are at least equal to a human's would do in my situation. I have a neighbor who has two small dogs, I have no idea of the breed but they are aggressive. The neighbors never walk or leash these dogs nor do they have an invisible fence. They simply let them outside for hours at a time unsupervised. They stand and bark at my son when he is waiting for the school bus. They poop all over my lawn, especially by my mailbox, it is disgusting. The dogs also chase me down the street when I go for a run. And they will stand in my driveway and snarl and bark at me while I am unloading the car. We have repeatedly asked these neighbors to not let their dogs out without a leash. They say they will try but the dogs get bored inside. The police say we must file a formal complaint against them which I am hesitant to do because they are my neighbors and I have to live next to them for who knows how long. They are actually nice people apart from the dog issue. They just believe their dogs have the right to roam and they get cooped up in the house. What about my rights?

Pit breeds are extremely common where i live also. Shelters are FULL of them.

ANY male, non-neutered dog is going to be so much more aggressive and dangerous than a neutered dog. Training, socializing, diet and exercise are keys to a good dog. A bored dog will be a destructive dog. A dog left chained up all day is going to be a frustrated dog that could bite.

It's about how you raise the dog-like how you raise your children-in what you'll get from your dog.

I truly believe there is no such thing as a bad dog (or bad dog breed). Only bad owners. I think every dog has the capacity and desire to love, but needs to be guided and taught.

Pit bulls can still be wonderful with babies. Found these pictures with a quick google search (not my dog, nor my baby). But it is sad that so many people wouldn't trust them (me included) because of what moron people have done to them.

I volunteer at a shelter in an affluent NY area. We have more pit bulls/pit mixes than any other breed. Pit bulls have a bad reputation, mostly because of their strength, the common association with gangs, their misuse for dog fighting, etc. There are badly bred pit bulls and those trained to fight, but I don't think panic about and stereotyping the breed as a whole is justified.

Mtnrd, they are not a "top breed" in your sense of the term-- for one, most people do not buy them from a breeder. There are so many at the shelters and available from other sources, and most (non gang member) sorts that take in a pit bull are people who tend to believe in adopting rather than purchasing. At least that has been my observation. My step daughter has a pit bull and she is great with my grandson. My sister has a pit bull mix who is the sweetest. Neither of them owns a gun, is a gang member or an anti-social misanthrope looking to make a statement. Most of the pits at my shelter are adopted by typical suburban families-- not gun-toting psychopaths-- but they will probably never be a "top breed,"

Pits are great dogs. Not all of them, obviously, but my one nasty bite at the shelter was from a toy poodle. Go figure.

Those photos just terrify me after reading the link I posted above. Why would you even risk it with an infant? Or any child? Esp that first photo...that pit is looking at that infant like, yum, lunch!

Here's how the life of a 14 month old ended:

When babysitter, baby in her arms, let her two 45 lb. dogs in the house from the backyard of her home, they became "nippy", jumping up at the pair, so she batted them off. The dogs then attacked, and mauling her, shredding her clothing and knocking her down, causing the boy to hit the ground, whereupon the dogs attacked him. The babysitter tried stop the attack, and redirect the dogs' attack onto her. A neighbor heard screams but did nothing. She got the child away from the dogs and called 911. The boy was taken by ambulance to the hospital, and by helicopter from the hospital to a medical center later that day, where he was pronounced dead of dog attack. Before the attack, the veterinarian center where they had been spayed, neutered, and otherwise cared for had not been seen as dangerous, but one was described as "standoffish" while at the facility. The owner said she had gotten the three-year-old dogs as puppies and that they had never shown signs of aggression. After the attack, the dogs were euthanized and tested negative for rabies, and the authorities decided not to press charges against the babysitter.

Or this 3 week old infant:

Mauled indoors by family dog when left briefly unattended

Or this 3 day old infant:

Two parents were watching television in bed with their newborn son and 2-year-old, neutered family pit bull Polo, which they'd adopted from the San Diego Humane Society five months previously; the SDHS advertised Polo online as "vivacious, bubbly and cheerful."[763] The mother coughed, and the 76lb pit bull responded by biting the newborn infant in the head. After a struggle to get Polo to release their child's skull, the parents drove Sebastian to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead. Polo was quarantined by San Diego County Animal Services, which euthanized it days later, at the request of the owners.[764][765]

LOLOLOL, gregbradley! For the record, I am not for euthanizing the perfumed, or pitbulls for that matter. :-)

Well, I just googled:

"maulings by yellow labs"

"maulings by golden retrievers"

"maulings by rottweilers"

"maulings by dobermans"

and came up with plenty of hits to match Annie's list of "maulings by pit bulls".

Can't just target one breed.

Maybe we should ban/euthanize all dogs above 15 lbs?

(Note: I have met nice and nasty dogs of all breeds and don't agree with singling out just one breed)

Yes, the stories of dog maulings are horrible. However, the same Wikipedia page says that each year, only around 20 to 30 people total die from dog attacks.

In a country of more than 300 million people.

By comparison:

Falling out of bed kills 450 people annually in the U.S.

Ants kill around 30 people, so pretty close to the same number as are killed by dogs.

In 2011, 29 people were killed by falling TV sets.

75 people also tragically die due to lawn mowers annually.

Playground equipment—and swing sets in particular—kill around 20 per year.

(http://www.oddee.com/item_98002.aspx)

I think we can probably get the ants, playsets and lawn mowers banned too ... the TV sets and beds I think are going to be much harder to legislate! ;-)

Yes, you can single out a breed when 25 of the 34 fatal dog attacks on humans in 2015 were caused by pit bulls or pit bull mixes.

If a yorkie attacks, it may be painful and expensive, but it's unlike to be fatal.

Dog bite deaths are so rare as to be comparable to lightning strike deaths. Much like lightning strikes, precautions should be taken but it is such a rare issue that it shouldn't prevent anyone from living their life. Typically you shouldn't leave an infant or small child alone with any dog and your household should be set up to keep child and dog separate when you are not actively in the room and monitoring. I think as with anything in life that is a little bit risky, which includes every single activity including walking (4700+ deaths in US in 2014) and driving (32000 deaths in 2014) a relationship with a pet can truly enrich a child's life. Trying to avoid every single thing that could add a little bit of risk would lead to a very poor life indeed - - and probably early death from bed sores and cardiovascular disease.

Here's the wonderful thing about google searching. If you want to find sites all about pit bull maulings, you can certainly find that. Just as you will find pit bulls make wonderful family pets...whatever people WANT to find out there to justify their thinking...they can find it! People should also be cautious when they leave a small child alone with a labradoodle. In fact, I have seen more aggressive acting "doodles" at our dog park than any other breed...just my personal experience. OH and I almost forgot, three different aussie mixes I've seen show aggressive behavior, one was even banned from the park.

There is a difference. I don't invite lightning into my home and live with it.

Clearly all dogs are are capable of inflicting harm on humans, and certainly some of the nippiest dogs I've seen are also among the smallest. (I suspect largely because people are afraid to discipline a small dog or don't take their bad behavior as seriously.) But there is something special about a dog bred for fighting bulls with their jaw configuration, musculature, tenacity and fearlessness that makes them more deadly to humans than many other breeds. I'm not saying people shouldn't own pit bulls or that pit bulls can't make fine pets, but they are inherently more dangerous and should be brought into one's home with that awareness and a serious commitment to discipline and training to prevent tragedy for both the dog and humans in the home, in the community, as well as other pets.

Caroline wrote:" They say they will try but the dogs get bored inside. The police say we must file a formal complaint against them which I am hesitant to do because they are my neighbors and I have to live next to them for who knows how long. They are actually nice people apart from the dog issue. They just believe their dogs have the right to roam and they get cooped up in the house. What about my rights?"

it is your right to file that formal complaint with the police if that is what it is going to take to for them to keep their dogs in. If it was me, I would try one more time to tell them that their dogs are a problem and that you are sorry but will be filing that complaint if the behavior does not stop.

Caroline, your right to live in and around your own home w/o fear trumps everything you've just described. If you've raised the issue with the dog owners before, go back to them and tell them that you are no longer willing to live in fear, that you wish to remain good neighbors, even friends, and that you are approaching them first to put a fence in or an area for the dogs before you go to the Town, but if they don't, you will.

I don't think all Pit Bulls are "bad", but I am leery of them, after what happened to a neighbor.

She's a dog rescue person, very knowledgable about them, and has 7 various breeds of her own. She walks daily (in her 60s at the time of this incident--early 2000s. Very healthy and strong woman, almost 6 ft tall). A couple of streets over from us, a family had 2 Pit Bulls and a mixed breed dog, in a yard, with chain link fence. She said they'd always bark at her, so she just kept walking, not looking over at them. One day, the gate wasn't properly latched, and they got out as she was walking by. The two Pits attacked her, and she fell. She said they started taking bites out of her, and circling, like sharks would. They were eating her. She was losing a lot of blood, and was convinced she was going to die. Finally, another neighbor heard the commotion, and ran out. Dragged her to his front door, while getting attacked himself. Someone called it in. She was flown by helicopter to the hospital, and thankfully survived. She would have died, had the man not found her exactly when he did. We visited her (she was in the hospital for two weeks), and you could hardly see any skin on her body, because of so many stitches. Her body now has large dents everywhere, from such big chunks of flesh being ripped away, and scars all over. Her thighs and arms especially. The story was on TV and in the paper for weeks ... I got interviewed by a newscaster, because my neighbors and I were in the street discussing it the day it happened, and a reporter stuck a microphone in my face. I was not happy about that, as we were all very emotional, not knowing if our friend was going to live, especially after seeing the amount of blood on the street.

Even after that, she tells people to not hate Pit Bulls, but to just be mindful of what they can do, of what any large dog can do. She still rescues dogs, still walks (with pepper spray). She didn't sue, as she said it was a freak accident, not malicious intent on the part of the owners. The dogs were put down. The owners had young children, and the dogs had never shown aggression before this incident, according to the family. Neighbors said otherwise. The owners never apologized for what happened, but instead blamed her (!), and were very defiant when interviewed.

Whether you believe in karma or heaven or whatever, your friend has a lot of good coming her way, MizGG. Her attack probably saved those children from a future incident.

Lisa, we all said the same thing.

I was so angry at the owners, for never reaching out to her, especially after she made it clear (in interviews) that she didn't blame them. She is a much more forgiving and magnanimous person than I am! Pretty sure I would have sued, especially after they tried to blame her for it in interviews. Outrageous.

Unbelievable that the owners never even apologized!! They are VERY lucky they weren't sued. My SIL is a huge Pit Bull lover, she has several. She fails to see their aggression as being a problem. She was actually offended at a baby shower with an infant and small children around that she was asked to put her dog away. I just don't get the mentality. I understand they are her children, but I have a (human) child and I don't make excuses for his behavior. He is appropriately disciplined when the situation calls for it.

Thanks for those who gave advice on my neighbor / dog situation. I know I need to ask them one more time and then report it. I hope they take it well. I am amazed that they also don't worry about the dogs being run over by a car when they are loose!

awful story. having more than one dog can stimulate a sort of pack mentality too. i would venture to guess that the dogs weren't well trained since they were allowed to sit at the fence daily and bark at everybody going by! in their minds they're thinking enemy or intruder everyday as people walk by and were being allowed to! if people were afraid as they went by, that just reinforces the dog's behavior in their minds as would the people who might have provoked/teased them, yelled at them, etc as they walked by...

doesn't mean they would have ever turned on their family- doesn't mean they ever would have had guarding issues with toys or food in their home...

i never had big dogs when my kids were babies, but if we had, i'm sure i would have taken some sweet pictures of them with the dogs like those above... but, that doesn't mean i would trust a dog completely!

it's too easy for kids (and adults!) to miss or misinterpret a dog's behavior... just like people, dogs have different personalities and some have lower tolerances for certain things. attacks like above are one thing, but are pretty rare-- but, many bites could be avoided if the people bitten had behaved differently...

MMGG, I'm sorry for your friend!

I know there are good and bad in all breeds but stand by my thought that there should be strict breeding laws on breeds like pits, rotties and a few others where large powerful jaws come in to play. There has just been too much bad breeding. If human murderous psychopaths kept breeding with other murderous psychopaths for a few generations I might not want to be around them either. Their wiring is skewed. With animals, well, we should be able to control it to a point. I think it should be against the law to be a backyard breeder with power jaw breeds.

There are people out there who care about these breeds and who are carefully breeding these dogs to closer fit their original temperament. This takes time. Even there though, sales should include mandatory obedience classes by law.

I'm probably going to get slammed for this but I also think for now that the average dog owner should stick with one if buying or adopting a power jaw breed. More than one starts turning into a pack. There might be one dog who is fine but when the other is not will end up attacking just because part of the pack is. Look how many fatalities in Annie's post where it was more than one dog.

I wonder, too, about that--if she would have been attacked if there had just been one dog involved? I don't know. Obviously, the injuries wouldn't have been so severe and life-threatening (I don't think). The mixed dog involved joined in with barking, but didn't bite her, that she remembers. Hard to know for sure, in such frenzy.

I have known other people who had/have Pit Bulls for years... gentle, loving, and docile. No issues.

The media here was definitely playing up the "Pit Bull Attack! Killer dogs!" angle. Had it been another breed, I think they still would have covered the horrific story, but not put such an emphasis on the breed of dog involved. They never even mentioned the third dog.

She had been walking that route for a couple of years at that time, we'll never know why they attacked that day. Even after her trauma, she was upset about the media spin.

FWIW, I remember reading an article about how a dog's hunting instinct may spontaneously kick in when children are running around them.

Also FWIW, my younger sister was viciously bitten by a relative's small elderly dog. She was standing in their kitchen, not near the dog, talking w/ other family members, when it started growling & suddenly lunged @ her, biting her deeply on her thigh, near the artery, but missing it. She had to go to an emergency room to be stitched up. She told me she later found out this dog had attacked & bitten before, but owner kept it hush-hush, because in where they live, if a dog bites more than once, it will automatically be euthanised by law.

Carolb, I bet small dog bites are at least quadrupled that of power jaw dogs but they are almost never reported.

My son was bit on the eyebrow by a friend's smallish dog when he was just under three. We were having dinner and my son had crawled under the table. It all happened fast. The friend had a daughter just slightly younger than my son, the dog never showed aggregation to the girl or family. However, things happen. Maybe my son was doing something with food and the dog, don't know. I did get upset in that instance but because the couple automatically yelled it wasn't their dog and that my son fell. Even though he was screaming that the dog bit him. I was partially to blame for not preventing a possible dog mishap /toddler/food and should have been watching more closely. Once the swelling went down there were very clear dog teeth marks. It was more of a warning shot as it just barely broke the skin. I would have appreciated at least some concern for my son though.

I have a scar under my chin from a Dalmatian. It was 100% my fault, though ... I was 5 or 6, and was bothering mama dog while she was nursing puppies. I didn't mean to agitate her, but did, and boy did I get in trouble with my uncle! (His dog.) I learned my lesson, she chomped my face good. I deserved it!

I have more cat bite scars than dog ones, though. A few horse bites, too. :D

Only one dog? Nah, packs are great when you're the pack leader.

They really aren't "power jaw dogs". They are simply bigger/stronger dogs and can cause more damage. Just like a 200 lb six foot person will inflict more damage than a 100 lb five foot person.

I have a friend who has a purebred Field Spaniel. He's not a huge dog, but he's well-built and strong. He is friendly and somewhat an air-head. However, he's been coddled and pampered and is totally without good manners and discipline. I asked her if she's ever said "No" to him and she admitted very rarely. He's eager to greet people, but it's impossible to pet him without getting slobbered on. He wants to jump on people as well. I have no problem saying No to him, but it barely registers. I will tell my friend, if he tries to jump on me again, I'm going to bring up my knee into his chest and she says, Fine. And I do, and I'll knock him back off his feet. I don't know anything about the breed beside this dog. I want to say he's stupid, but I believe he's been done a disservice by not receiving any obedience training.

Chispa, Yes, that's the thing, a lot more damage.

Bubblebee, I have two dogs, one Rottie and one tiny mutt. I am pack leader. Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there that have power jaw dogs that have no idea what that means.

I get very angry with my husband because he can't seem to grasp the pack leader thing. I spent much time on obedience training with the Rottie. He knows with me he never ever walks out the door without permission and when he gets permission (command) he is never allowed out before me and is not allowed to walk in front of me on lead. It's a constant battle reinforcing proper training as husband is so lax. Our Rot is very mellow but I would not trust my own husband with owning a power jaw breed that might not be as laid back. He is just a bit lazy about training.

Cue the memes.

According to Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic who conducted several tests of bite force with numerous animals- the top five power jaw dogs are...

Dobermans - some tested as high as 6 hundred pounds of pressure (this is being disputed and it is believed that overall Mastiff is #1)

Mastiff - 552 pounds of pressure

Rottweiler - 328 pounds of pressure

German Shepherds - 238 pounds of bite force

Pits - 235 pounds of pressure

However, even though these dogs would still remain in the top five the bite force would vary within each breed. For example, if the dog had daily play tug of war with toys their jaws would be stronger.

So, that is just the pressures and does not include how much more lethal larger jaw dogs could be simply because they would cover larger areas of flesh.

Should be breeding laws and by law mandatory obedience classes for owners.

Who is going to enforce the law and the mandatory classes? What is the punishment going to be for those who don't comply?

Not meaning to be argumentative, just curious as to how laws and mandatory requirements would be implemented and enforced.

I don't have the answer but rabies vaccinations are the law and that is enforced. Maybe with adoptions or dog purchase a signed agreement and later a signed obedience class graduate paper would have to be sent into Animal Control within a designated time.

It would at least help with idiots who get these dogs and just chain them up out back. These dogs are really like all dogs in that with out training and socialization can become fearful and unreliable when chained or confined if they get lose. But, there is the lethal bite force to consider that sets them aside.

I don't even see how rabies laws are enforced. I am required to have my dog licensed in my city, and having a valid rabies certificate every three years is a condition of maintaining that license. But if I don't get the license, I don't have to provide them with a current rabies certificate. They don't even know I have a dog unless I tell them I have one, or unless he/she somehow ends up in the city's animal control facility.

I do agree that people should be responsible for the animals they keep, but don't see how creating additional laws and mandatory requirements is going to accomplish that. The only people it could help are those who are already responsible and will want to do the responsible thing being asked of them. The rest will simply ignore the requirement or do the minimum to get by. A mandatory obedience class when the dog is first acquired will do nothing if the training is not continued and reinforced.

Like I say I don't have the answer. If you drive around the poor neighborhoods in my state it's common to see pitbulls behind chain link fences. These dogs are probably bought in some cases with good intentions. Sometimes I think the mentality is that it or they will be a combination of pet and protection. The problem is that they get the puppies in the house and don't have a clue how to dog parent. They get fed up with chewed furniture , urine and feces. They get fed up with the dog pulling on the leed. So, the dogs get stuck out in the fenced yard or chained to something. These are the most dangerous if they get lose. And, again comes down to the lethal bite force.

What if these sorts were given the tools to know how to train? Might help! Might also help with the very lazy buying these dogs in the first place if they know they have to go to dog obedience classes.

As an owner of a Rottie, a breed with a bad reputation, I would like to see this stigma close to disappear . I'm sure Responsible pit owners feel the same. However, it will never happen without some regulations.

I don't believe my thoughts are picking on certain breeds. My thoughts are to help the power jaw breeds and the responsible owners who love them with tighter breeding laws and mandatory training. These dogs are magnificent and idiots are not only ruining them they are contributing to the stigma.

I haven't read everything...

I agree w/Tibbrix about the leash.When a new person comes to the dog park we always request that the dog be taken off the lease before entering (It's double gated).

And as far as suing...I sat on the trial where Bobby Bonds was being sued for his dog biting an elderly man - his elderly wife sued for loss of consortium .

people could still 'ruin' a very well bred dog! mandatory obedience training would only be worthwhile if it is continued- some people think going to puppy class is it. and, some people are much better at training than others...

too many people don't spend enough time with their kids teaching them to be well behaved, let alone their dogs.....