Somewhere around 20 years ago, I was at a business meeting in Chicago. I had arrived Thu night for Fri-Sat meetings and was bored, so wandered around the hotel. I soon discovered that there was also a bonsai convention being set up, which was to begin on Fri. I was amazed at the beauty of the little trees, so asked if I could observe. Permission was granted with the proviso I stay out of the way. I decided that day that I had to learn how to grow those wonderful little trees. I came home and soon stumbled on an adult education flier that offered a 1 day bonsai workshop. I paid my fee & soon had a little garden juniper, perfectly ripe for the killing. I stumbled around in total darkness for that entire summer before realizing I knew nothing about soils or keeping plants alive in containers, but that knowledge was prerequisite, so I set the plants aside and hit the books. I studied bonsai techniques and the art itself, but mostly I concentrated on physiology and soil science. After 4-5 years of what I think was pretty diligent studying, I had learned enough about plants and soils that, to my great happiness, I was able to keep plants alive and healthy in containers. I was using 'bonsai' soil that was commercially made, and little better than other heavy 'from-the-bag' soils that were available. About the only thing that set it apart was it's gritty mineral components. I discovered and joined a local club, and primarily through my bonsai magazines, gradually became exposed to a wide variety of potential soil ingredients. As I continued to study and gain a better understanding of how soils work and how various combinations of ingredients affected the end product, I started experimenting with various combinations of ingredients. I learned early on that soils intended to hold plant material for extended periods needed to be very durable. I was still operating under the illusion that container soils had to be nearly all organic or they wouldn't work. I soon discovered that was nowhere near true. It was a combination of trial and error, reading what others were doing, and experimenting, using what I had learned about soil science that helped me up with the idea of combining an ingredient that was large enough that it held very little perched water but still held plenty of water in internal pores (screened Turface) with an ingredient on the opposite end of the spectrum - granite, which holds no water internally - only on its surface. The bark, though it offers some nutrition as it slowly breaks down was an excellent compliment to the other two ingredients because it offered a filler that held about the same volume of water as the average between the Turface and granite, and because it was plentiful and cheap; plus, it fit the durability requirement better than any other commonly found organic component, as long as I limited the organic fraction (bark) to 1/3 of the whole or less. Each of the ingredients in the gritty mix is actually carefully chosen. Particle size, the ability to hold/not hold water, expense, availability (for me) were all carefully considered as I settled on the ingredients and ratio. I've been using the gritty mix for about 15 years, and haven't found a way to improve it yet. With the number of people I stay in contact with in the bonsai community, it's easy to imagine there were a lot of materials that could have been substituted for one of the 3 primary ingredients or added to the trio. Many were tried, then discounted, and I still prefer the equal parts of fir bark:Turface:grit to anything else. I guess to answer your question directly, about how long it took me to come up with the gritty mix, I'd say it was about 5 years before it came together, but I was still learning a lot in the first 4 years. As far as the gritty mix being perfect, it may not be, for everyone; but the nice thing about it is it's flexible/adjustable for different locales and plant material by simply changing the ratio of Turface:grit slightly. The same is basically true of the 5:1:1 mix - it's flexible. My interest in bonsai also sparked a keen interest in growing a wide variety of other plant material in containers. Since I recognized the difficulty presented by the high level of water retention in almost all from-the-bag soils, and I had already witnessed the superb results from the highly aerated gritty mix, not to mention the fact that the gritty mix is more expensive than bagged soils, it wasn't long before I was tinkering with pine bark, peat, and perlite. I saw that nurseries were growing woody material in mixes with pine bark, so I should be able to grow my veggies and pretty/flowery stuff in some sort of concoction with pine bark as the primary ingredient. Having already settled on the gritty mix, I knew just what I wanted to achieve with the 5:1:1 mix, so that was easy. A few years after I started using the 5:1:1 mix, I started sharing how well it works here. You might not believe me when I tell you that JaG was one of the loudest dissenters, and couldn't imagine how soils with that much air could possibly be better than from-the-bag soils. He'll tell you that himself, and mentions it frequently. (I miss his being around). It took a couple of years of often very strong debate before he tried it and saw there really was a stark difference in results between a highly aerated soils vs those heavier and water retentive. Now he's a strong proponent of highly aerated soils. I was actually afraid to tell the forum about the gritty mix, because it was such a radical departure from what everyone on this forum was used to growing in that not one person would ever have believed you could grow in a soil that was 2/3 gravel and 1/3 large bark chunks. Honestly - I had to wait until I had earned enough credibility before I could even tell you that I grow lots of perfectly healthy plants in the stuff. It's much easier to open minds when there is more than a singular voice crying in the wilderness. ;o) Let's see ...... what drew me here? I think it was originally because I was doing a LOT of searching for info on the internet and GW kept coming up. After a few hundred GW hits, I guess I started to explore and ended up joining. The bonsai forum wasn't much fun because there was (still is) constant fighting, so I ended up here. I had also joined several clubs, and had often been invited to talk about different aspects of gardening. I talk most often about soils and things related to container gardening, but I also do presentations about pruning and hormones, propagation, repotting ..... I do bonsai demos and lead various workshops, too. I look at all of that as a natural extension of my love for growing/nurturing plants, so I guess it's not so unusual that you have to put up with me here. Whew! That took a lot longer than I thought it would. It was a really, really hectic weekend, so it's time for bed. Thanks for your interest, Mike - if you're still awake. ;-) TTYL Al

> Thanks for all your work and observations greentoe... I am glad that this is of use. > I don't use the official gritty mix recipe for hanging plants. The added bulk density from the gravel is completely unnecessary. Yes! I agree - baskets hanging on anything less than a very reliable support need granite taken out and replaced with something. > I substitute pumice for less weight. Note that pumice has higher water retention capacity though in all those nooks and crannies than granite chips that have smoother surface. Particularly if the pumice particle sizes are smaller, you may need another adjustment, as smaller particles further retain more water than larger ones. > I need to get my hands on some DE because I think that will help reduce the bulk density even further by subbing out the turface. Oh, DE is lighter than turface? I did not know, as I only tried DE. > greentoe357 You said: It's not even two mixes. I also have an orchid mix now, a cactus&succulent mix and am slowly learning how... if you are already using gritty, wouldn't you just use it for cacti&succulents too? Just asking (I have just about all of my succs in gritty). Rina, Cacti often have naturally very small root systems, which makes large pots unnecessary (not harmful, like they would be with a more water-retentive mix - just unnecessary with gritty or another very well-draining mix). With very small pots, gritty mix's relatively large particles may become a problem - the mix may drain too fast and retain too little water - depending on how often you can/want to water. So I had to adjust the gritty recipe for very small pots - I did that by simply adding a bit of fine bark and by not screening the DE. You can also simply use the 511 mix instead of the gritty, although that is my less preferred thing for cacti in small pots. > I use "Gritty" for everything in a container grown indoors... from Orchids... Orchids! Jodi, I wonder how they are doing, compared in traditional orchid mixes, and how your care differs in it. I have not dared to venture into gritty mix for orchids. For more moisture-loving orchids, one part each of long sphagnum moss, coarse pine bark (coarser than for gritty mix, but orchid people would probably call it "medium") and coarse perlite do the trick for now in my zone indoors. For those that need to dry out more between waterings, I've tried mixes with more bark, hydroponic mediums added (growstone in my case), and/or moss eliminated - something along those lines. I might get Orchiata next spring and experiment with it as well, for both orchids and other plants as well. But I am always interested in what other orchid people are doing, to shorten my own learning curve. > I would add that you need eye protection to screen the bark, especially if it's reptibark and gloves, as they can give you splinters! That has not been my experience with my bark, true-blue, but I'll check how to edit the file more generally to mention eye protection, as it's a good point. I found nose and mouth protection to be more important in my case. I'd blow my nose with brown/red looking snot (sorry for details) after screening my bark - and this is even with wearing a face mask. And I got an absolutely nasty cough for a few hours after screening perlite - not a gritty mix component, but nasty stuff none-the-less. Now the first thing I do when working with perlite is shower hose it as soon as I open the bag, in order to keep the dust down. And I stopped screening it - you can't do it wet, and it just flies too much when dry, so if I can't use it out of the bag then it doesn't get used. Maybe I can screen it with a shower head instead of shaking the screen while dry - but then perlite dust will probably plug up my drain, as I have no outdoor space to do it. Anybody has done it indoors somehow successfully?

1) Al uses the gritty mix for containers he needs help lifting, and Al is hale. ;o) There really is no upper size limit, even for small plants if you're using a properly made gritty mix because it holds no (or very little) perched water. You need to be a little more cautious about the 5:1:1 mix - especially because there is a wide range in what you end up with as far as porosity/drainage, depending on what goes into it. 2) Over the long term, the gritty mix will outperform the 5:1:1 mix, but they're so close over the short hauls that I put anything 1-seasonal in the 5:1:1 mix. It's easier to make in large volumes and it's much less expensive. 3) It depends on what you use. I screen the Turface because of a size issue. The bark and granite I use are pre-screened, so I screen them over insect screen just to eliminate the dust. That's important to me because I grow many plants in pots an inch deep or less. I need to minimize every form of stress on those plants I can, and can't afford to have a thin layer of sludge at the bottom of these containers. It wouldn't make much difference in the deeper containers most of you would have your long term planting in. 4) "Crushed" is my own term. No 'crushing' is required as it comes in small, pre-screened pieces. I suppose granite chips would be more accurate, but I've noticed that habits are first cobwebs - then cables .... and so I'm prolly tied to 'crushed' unless I make myself think hard about it. ;o) 5) Schultz Aquatic Soil = Turface MVP. Calcined diatomaceous earth is a little different than Turface. It holds more water (on a size for size basis), has a better CEC, but also has a higher pH. Like unproven sources of calcined clay, calcined DE should be checked for stability by freezing in water over night. If it remains stable, it's ok to use. FWIW - I have a lot of maples (heavy on the Jap maples but also plenty of tridents & others) in the gritty mix, and have been enjoying very healthy trees for a long while. Your turn. ;o) Al

The manufacturer's instructions for fertilizer dosage vary quite a bit. IOW - there is a RANGE that covers dosages, not just one specific dose for all applications. How you fertilize and how much you use has a LOT to do with your soil choice and how you water. I prefer to fertilize during the winter with a very low dose of fertilizer every time I water; and I can do that because I flush the soil every time I water. It works great - I never have deficiencies or toxicities, and the ratio of nutrients, each to the others, is always very close to that at which the plants actually use the nutrients. There is a lot of value in fertilizing that way because you can have the lowest EC/TDS (roughly, the fertilizer solution strength) possible w/o deficiencies, which is just about exactly where you want to be. You won't have trouble wetting the gritty mix, even if the bark is completely dry. The reason is, the Turface never becomes hydrophobic unless it's coated with algae; so when you water, the Turface sucks up the moisture very quickly and the surface of the Turface and grit become wet, too. IF the bark has become hydrophobic, water vapor diffusing from the internal pores of the Turface and from the surface of soil particles is absorbed by the bark, which breaks it's tendency toward hydrophobia in just a few (10?) minutes. Dry soil is easier to plant in, but after I get the planting situated, I pour water through the soil until it runs clear from the drain hole. That's so I don't end up with a thin layer of sludge on the bottom of the pot. Keeping your soil free from particles smaller than .100" (a BB is .177") means NO perched water and well aerated soil from the top of the soil to the container bottom, no matter how shallow the pot, which offers more potential than soils made of the same ingredients but with a smaller particle size .... within reason, of course. As soils become TOO porous, it becomes increasingly difficult to keep them moist, so you're looking for lots of water retention w/o having to resort to interparticulate (between particles) water to get it. Al