Hi flowersaremusic: If your rose is grafted in the Midwest region (Michigan/Wisconsin/Indiana/Illinois) ... most likely it's on Dr. Huey. That rootstock likes it alkaline, and Munstead Wood likes it alkaline. Nursery pot has acidic potting soil, at pH 6.5, to balance the alkaline tap-water given in nursery.

But rain water is acidic at 5.6, which makes the pot even more acidic, so Munstead Wood (grafted on Dr. Huey) CANNOT handle the acid, so it breaks out in mildew. Quick solution: Plant into your soil .. if your soil is alkaline like mine, it'll improve within a month. If your soil is acidic, then get Espoma Garden Lime (20% calcium and 10% magnesium) .. that will UP the pH and help with mildew immediately. It's sold at Walmart and elsewhere.

STOP ALL FERTILIZER, since pots accumulate salt too well, and salt & acid will induce mildew. Also flush the pot with your alkaline-tap-water will flush out the salt, plus raising the pH in the pot. Good luck, and please inform, thanks.

Thank you! I'm farther west, in north eastern WA, but similar climate. I am grateful to have all this information because I don't want to spray unless I have to. My soil is neutral, leaning toward alkaline, so that will help. I will get it in the ground by tomorrow for sure but before that, will give the pot a good flushing out. I will definitely post the results after it's been in the ground a bit.

According the comments on Help Me Find, Munstead Wood can get powdery mildew. In my own experience, if weather is humid and mild in temperature, then certain roses will mildew. The mildew will disappear with hot weather and due to the humidity link, good air circulation helps too. I always heard that roses grow best in a soil with a slightly acid ph.

Hmm...I know this rose has won awards, so I am surprised she is predisposed to PM to begin with. She's so beautiful, I think it might be worth dealing with a problem or two. I just don't want it to spread to my other roses. My climate is dry, unlike the west part of the state, so that will help. I've also heard roses grow well in slightly acid soil. Will have to research that. I appreciate your info.

Roses are all different, depending on where they are bred, and what rootstock they are grown on. Once you get into breeding roses and growing roses from seeds, you'll understand how they have different preference for soil type and pH level.

There are many different rootstocks which are bred in different climate and pH level. Dr. Huey, most popular on the west coast (CA, OR, WA) and the mid-west, was bred in CA in alkaline soil. Thus roses GRAFTED ON DR. Huey will be healthier in alkaline soil, and more disease-prone in acidic soil.

The rose park Munstead Wood is grafted on Dr. Huey, grown in our alkaline clay, and our Chicagoland gets very humid .. never see mildew on that ever !! pH of our clay is over 7.5, versus pH of potting soil around 6.5 for MG-regular-potting soil and 7 for organic potting soil.

The saying that Roses prefer it acidic originate from the east coast, where multiflora rootstock are grown. Multiflora like it acidic (its native soil), so roses which are GRAFTED on multiflora will be healthy in acidic soil.

Some Florida roses are grafted on Fortuniana rootstock, which thrive in sandy & dry soil and less susceptible to nematodes. Khalid's roses in Pakistan are grafted on Centifolia, which is aggressive like Dr. Huey in secreting acid .. thus best in alkaline soil to neutralize its acid to stay healthy.

Own-roots depend on its parental genetics. Meilland French roses love my pH 7.7 clay and bloom well, but disease-prone in others' acidic soil. Meilland roses was bred in alkaline region in Southern France. Multiflora-based roses like Excellenz von Schubert prefer it acidic: I had to use sulfur to lower my soil pH before it blooms.

I grow roses for a nursery. We grouped according to variety. Some of our varieties are susceptible to downy mildew when the conditions are right. Here in Florida that could be in the spring or fall. Mildew does not seem to infect a resistant variety even if it is right next to a group of badly infected roses. We never spray.

I also work as a landscaper and rose varieties that are infected with mildew in the nursery are usually having the same problem in the ground. Here mildew is not a problem for most of the season, so we ignore it knowing that it will go away with time. In some parts of the country though, the cooler /wetter parts, it can be a real problem.

Even though I have gardened most of my life, I learn something every day! Val O, it is good to know that roses grown near an infected rose are not necessarily in danger of the disease spreading - providing they are a resistant variety. The only other rose in my garden that's ever had PM is Charles de MIlls, and, unfortunately, it did not get better over the season. By fall, it was a mess, but came back strong and healthy this year. So far, so good with that one.

Strawchicago, you are a wealth of information and I appreciate your generosity in sharing it. It certainly makes sense that a rose will behave according to the rootstock it is grafted onto. I prefer own root roses, and have a few Meilland, a lot of Kordes, several California bred Carruth roses, which do especially well for me, many old garden roses, and a lot of Austins, which I have struggled with, but I'm hoping with the addition of mycorrhiza, good compost, a helping of alfalfa, and a top mulch of pine bark from my own felled trees will help all of them do well this year. I have been assured pine bark does not acidify the soil by the Garden Professors on FB. I hope they're right!

flowersaremusic wrote: "I have been assured pine bark does not acidify the soil by the Garden Professors on FB. I hope they're right!"

A very important point made by Straw regarding root stock. If your roses are grafted on Dr. Huey, they would not like pine bark in my estimation. I have most of my roses on centifolia root stock and last year, basing on this guidance that I read at so many places that rose like it slightly acidic, I gave a two inch top layer of pine bark (there are lot of pine trees around my house) to all my roses in pots and beds. Most of my roses had lot of fungal attacks during monsoon and even after that until I gave them a treatment of wood ash that increased the pH level and also added zinc, copper etc to the soil, the natural anti-fungus elements. However, if your roses are on multiflora root stock than pine bark might go well with them. And if they are own root then the behaviour will differ from cultivar to cultivar.

As explained by Straw in another thread.... other than the pH level, deficiency of certain main and trace elements like K, Mg, Zn, Cu etc can also cause mildew and the long term solution to fungus problem, in my understanding, lies in correcting the pH level and mineral deficiency.

best regards

We use pine bark on all our commercial plantings and the roses thrive. We follow the ag extension office advice of not allowing any mulch or soil touch building above the building's foundation.

The reason why pine bark doesn't harm in Florida is the region's fast-draining, sandy soil, so WATER DOES NOT ACCUMULATE around pine-bark like clay soil. Nurseries here put pine-bark in their potting mix, but neutralized its acidity with high pH lime.

Roses in Florida are grafted on DIFFERENT root-stocks than Dr. Huey which secrets plenty of acid to go through rock-hard clay regions like Texas, CA, Chicagoland. I have 2 brothers, and 2 sisters who bought houses in Florida and started gardening, and there's vast difference between mid-west clayish vs. Florida's loamy & sandy.

Pine bark was a BIG DISASTER in my last house's acidic clay, killing over a dozen roses through a wet winter. Our zone 5a get under -30 degree that winter, and the wet snow, coupled with slow-draining clay, resulted in roses' roots being destroyed by the acidity of pine-bark soaked in snow/rain.

At the same time, my neighbor roses all survived winter. Hers were in a fast-draining soil plus RAISED bed, plus winterized with local hard-wood-chips (ash, elm, oak) .... she DID NOT use pine-bark like I did. Below site stated that "hard-wood becomes alkaline as it breaks down."

Pine bark is a soft wood, it's DIFFERENT from hard-wood chips.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/pine-bark-vs-hardwood-mulch-36415.html

"Some fresh or finely ground pine bark mulch can poison young plants, especially if placed deeply in the soil. Plants that thrive in acidic soil, like azaleas and rhododendrons, love pine bark mulch, which also provides a high level of aluminum."

*** From straw: aluminum toxicity shoots up as the pH drops, which can kill roots. pH of pine bark is around 4, but become even more acidic if soaked in rain/snow water. Acid eats up roots. Below is Bill's testimony in the Fig-forum:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1888489/pine-bark-fines-and-soil-ph-or-acidity?n=20

bmoke(7)July 17, 2008

"So, this afternoon, while thinking about the Mountainman (MM) recipe, I wondered why MM suggested using a cup of dolomite limestone. Pine bark fines are acidic and the dolomite will counter the impact of that soil amendment. I did an experiment, just today. . The container still included 2 or 3 cups of waterlogged pine bark. Today, my pond water is at 8.33 pH and the standing water in a plastic pail of pine bark chips is 3.45 pH .... there were pine bark fines clumped around the dead and rotted roots." Bill

He re-tested it again: "I mixed 2p water at 8.19 pH (48 ounces) 1 part dry pine bark fines (24 ounces) and stirred the soup. The pH dropped to I mixed 2p water at 8.19 pH and 1p turface and 1p grit and pH lowered to 7.16 pH in 10 minutes. Then, I mixed the containers of water and solids in a bucket and retested the soup. The net result after 5 minutes was that pH lowered to 4.98." Bill in fig forum.

*** From Straw: I tested pine-bark's pH with red-cabbage juice and the pH was below 4 when soaked in rain water (pH 5.6). I did that a few times just to confirm Bill's result, the longer it soak, the more acidic it becomes. My major is in Computer Science, minor in Chemistry, but experience is still the best teacher.

In my last house of acidic clay, mulching with acidic pine bark killed roses with black canker through winter .. that was a $200 loss. Here's an excerpt from University of Georgia on thick pine bark mulch:

"Anaerobic respiration can occur producing acetic acid (vinegar), phenolic and alkaloid compounds toxic to plants. The pH may drop as low as 2.0, which causes nutrients to be flushed from the pine bark. These can also be toxic... Mold in the bark which repels water. Pine bark in dry piles may develop high fungal populations recognized by clouds of spores when disturbed. Once spread out and irrigated, a mold (mycelia) grows rapidly which repels water. Newly set plants may dry out and die. "

http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.cfm?number=B1291

Below are my roses in my current house (alkaline clay with pH 7.7), plus mulched with horse manure (pH near 8). Picture taken in Oct .. roses are much heathier with alkaline mulch since that neutralize the acidic rain, plus root like Dr. Huey, or own root Romantica roses secret plenty of acid, in order to go through rock-hard clay.

Khalid: I didn't see your post until now. Thank you for the testimony of how pine bark made your roses in pots more prone to fungal diseases. I took both biochemistry and microbiology in college: mildew prefer it slightly acidic.

Val: Thank you for what you wrote " Mildew does not seem to infect a resistant variety even if it is right next to a group of badly infected roses. We never spray." One member of Organic Rose forum left after I post research to differ with his statement that "the nursery gave his rose mildew". That's how Bill Radler won with his Knock-out roses, by brain-washing the public that his Knock-out is resistant to Blackspot strains (it came down with Cercospora fungus in Chicagoland rainy fall".

If people believe in "black-spot" strains or mildew is contagious, then they just grow only one type: Knock-out roses. Or they can return the rose to the nursery, blaming the nursery for giving their roses a particular blackspot strain, or mildew ... while dumping salty chemical fertilizer, or piling up acidic pine bark in their garden.

I got curious about the pH of roses' leaves and tasted several leaves in my garden. Own-root Pat Austin likes my alkaline clay, with glossy foliage, and that tastes best: sweet. Knock-out's leaves is extremely bitter, like medicine. The roses that broke out in blackspot: I tasted its leaves, it's slightly sour.

But the pH of a roses' leaves can be changed by how I feed it: No fungal diseases can affect Pat's thick & glossy foliage, until I gave it sulfate of potash (salt-index of 43, with 21% sulfur), and brewer's yeast (acidic pH 4) .. then its leaves became thin, dry and mildewed.

As the soil pH drops, leaves became thinner & lose their glossy shine. I notice the same when I put vinegar to lower my high pH tap-water. Below is how glossy & thick & and shiny Pat Austin's leaves are, with alkaline soil pH near 8:

Hi Samuel. Termites only feed on dead wood. They won't bother roses. Pine bark mulch does float. If we are planting in heavy soil where water stands or on steep slopes the pinebark can float away. Standing water on heavy soils isn't good for roses, they hate wet feet. When we plant in clay ( and we do have clay where I live in Florida, heavy gray clay we call gumbo) we grade so that the water drains off the beds. We plant so the top of the root balls are one to two inches higher than soil level of the bed. Then we mulch with 3" to 4" of pine bark mulch.

We been planting this way for 30 years and when we go back to visit our work, we see robust healthy Rose bushes. We do not plant grafted roses or roses not well suited to our climate.

Thanks, Val, for the info, would love to see pics of your roses. What's the pH in the ground, and the pH for roses in pot? Thank you.

That's the difference between warm zone vs. cold zone: in our cold zone 5a, we plant roses 3 to 4" BELOW soil level, otherwise they can't survive winter, and if people pile-up pine-bark on top, roots will be in an acidic puddle.

Acid can really hurt plant, esp. in heavy-rain/snow area. One winter I gave Wise Portia Rose tap water with acidic used grapefruit, and I almost killed it ... and it's an own root in my alkaline clay (pH near 8) !! Wise Portia as own-root prefer alkaline.

Pine-bark on top may work great for alkaline gumbo clay, but it was a disaster in my last house of acidic clay. Acidic red clay can have pH near 5, versus my present heavy clay with pH near 8.

I can see pine-bark works well on top of pots, to neutralize alkaline tap water (pH 9.2 nearby) ... but it doesn't work in heavy acidic rain, and acidic clay in cold zone.

That's why I piled up pine-bark around Japanese maple, they prefer a pH between 3.7 and 6.5. Own-root roses vary greatly: multiflora roses like acidic & loamy soil , versus French Meilland roses like alkaline clay.

Austin roses, if ordered directly from David Austin USA, are grafted on Dr. Huey rootstock, unless one ask for own-roots. I can get grafted-on-Dr. Huey at local stores cheap for $7 per gallon, but own-root are $20 to $30 each (more expensive if I include the shipping cost). The grafted rose is on the left, and the own-root is on the right:

Below is own-root rose, it's just canes connected directly to fibrous roots, with zero bud-union:

With 2 brothers and 2 sisters in Florida, I check on the most popular rootstock in Florida, Fortuniana roostock, and found the best soil pH for that rootstock is 6, quite acidic, which explains why pine-bark works for such root-stock to bring down the pH of alkaline tap-water in hot & dry climate. See below link:

http://www.kandmroses.com/Growing%20on%20Fortuniana.htm

Own-roots are outrageously expensive, I once canceled my inquiry to Angel Garden in Florida (specialize in own-root-roses), with own-root costing from $30 to $40 each, which I haven't include the shipping cost yet. I can get a gallon-size container of good dirt & grafted-rose loaded with blooms for only $7 at local store.

Bluegirl in Texas graft (or bud) her own-roses, plus grow own-roots from cuttings. She shared with me how the budding/grafting procedure produce faster & more vigorous roses in ground, versus much-slower-growth with own-roots (require misting in greenhouse). I like own-root since it can take soaking wet clay well, versus Dr. Huey prefer it drier and alkaline.

Questions for Val: own-root roses are wimpy, with roots like alfalfa sprout .. I have to baby-them in pots & partial shade for the 1st year. How do your own-root roses survive in hot Florida sun? Are all your roses own-roots? Are they in pots, or in the ground? What are the varieties of own-root roses best suited for Florida?

Wow! A lot of information to absorb this morning and I have a feeling I'm going to be feeling woefully inadequate to grow anything other than a petunia, if indeed that. Many, many thanks to one and all - Samuel adkNY, Val O and strawchicago, for your advice, experiences, links and scientific information. I will say that after using pine bark mulch for the first time on my garden over winter, my roses have bounced back like gangbusters earlier and healthier looking than ever. I only lost one hybrid tea to winter kill. Last year (with compost only) I lost 9 shrub roses to winter kill - both winters were mild. I do not have pine bark mulch near the house, plus, my siding is cement fiber, said to be termite proof, with a concrete foundation. Most of my garden is raised beds to help drain all those nasties away. In addition, to help drainage, each rose is planted in holes that are at least 2'x2', back filled with approximately 1/3 soil and 2/3 compost because my soil is hard, rocky clay. I'm seeing that this year will be an experiment. Especially, this one grafted rose. Next year, I may try shredded leaves - no problem there with two enormous maples. I noticed on a garden blog that the Biltmore Estate Gardens in N. Carolina, known for their rose gardens, use pine straw mulch in their rose beds. Different zone and climate and growing conditions, but I assume the results would be at least similar to pine bark mulch. (?) I agree, experience is the best teacher, and with your help, I will know what to look for and why certain issues may arise. Again, thank you, thank you!

Flowermusic: Your hard-rock clay sounds like my alkaline clay with pH near 8. I actually put pine bark into my planting hole to break up my rock-hard-clay. That would be a "No" for my last house in acidic & loamy clay.

Do you know what rootstock your roses are grafted on? With the North, some roses are grafted on multiflora, which prefer acidic soil, and pine bark will provide that acidity.

Thank you, Flowermusic, for info. of roses with pine bark in your soil/climate. Heavy clay like mine is deficient in manganese, and pine bark has decent manganese .. that's why I mix in at the bottom of planting hole.

Note that manganese is second in importance, after iron, in rose tissue-analysis. Re-post what U. of CA found in rose-tissue: http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7465.html

For low-ratios in roses, it would be 3 Nitrogen, 2 Potassium, and 0.2 Phosphorus, plus 1 Calcium and 0.25 magnesium. For ppm it would be 50 iron, 30 manganese, 30 boron, 15 zinc, and 5 copper

For high balanced-ratios of nutrients in rose tissue in %: 5 nitrogen, 3 potassium, 0.3 phosphorus, 1.5 calcium, and 0.35 magnesium. For ppm it would be 250 manganese, 150 iron, 15 copper, 50 zinc, and 60 boron.

Maple-leaves was BAD this past winter when I tested it, causing black-canker on all canes. I thought I could get away with that in my alkaline clay, but the same thing happened when I tested maple-leaves in my last garden with acidic clay. Maple leaves become too wet & too acidic in our heavy rain/snow zone 5a winter.

Hi Flowersaremusic,

I treat my roses like I do the rest of the plants in my yard. They get water, they get mulch and fertilizer (when I remember) . Raising the beds for drainage is a great idea, roses don't like wet feet. I never spray or worry about, bugs, disease, ect. Some varieties thrive and others die. In Florida, we need very vigorous varieties to survive. We trial every variety before planting it in clients yards. We plant in lots of different soils and we don't worry about the Ph, though we know the clay soil have are basic and the sandy ones are acidic. Pine needles should be similar to pine bark, we use the pine bark in clients yards because it is long lasting and a great weed suppressor. In my own I mulch with anything free, leaves, old hay, mulch from tree services and grounded yard waste.

While I can appreciate Strawchicago's scientific approach to growing roses, it is not my way. I am much more a "survival of the fittest" type gardener.

Years ago someone asked me about the pH of pine-needles, I tested it using red-cabbage juice, and it's neutral in pH, versus very acidic for pine bark (pink in red cabbage juice). To double-check that I searched on-line, and found a discussion in Soil forum where a soil-guy also said pine-needles are neutral in pH, won't affect soil pH. My background in computer science/chemistry gear me toward accuracy and truth.

Val: since you have been growing own-root roses for clients for the past 30 years, How do your own-root roses survive in hot Florida sun? Are all your roses own-roots? Are they in pots, or in the ground? What are the varieties of own-root roses best suited for Florida? What are own-roots well-suited for sandy soil? What are own-roots well-suited for clay? Thank you.

This post is about a grafted David Austin rose in zone 5. Munstead Wood has been a very popular rose the last couple of years. Roses come from the nursery with Powdery mildew sometimes. It could be the chemical fertilizers that help cause this or the leaves being wet.

Zone5 isn't in season yet.

Also Florida would be in rose season right now. Do you have any pictures of a David Austin rose similar to the one in this post?

Straw in zone 5 does.

Article about how to manage Powdery mildew in roses.

http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/20163039260.html;jsessionid=5EC47778DEF0A3900CBE10005E3B16F0;jsessionid=8EE2E022CC652B2D884A0F8C0DDFB2F9

Hi Strawchicago,

All our roses are own root. If a variety can't survive on its on roots, we don't grow it. We plant in the ground, it so hot here that in pots roses may require watering 2 or 3 times a day. We grow roses in plastic pots for use in our landscape business. For pots less than 5" in diameter we use a peat/perlite mix, for anything larger we used a pine bark mix. The soils are commercial mixes and I don't know the ph but I sure the lime has been added. We grow about 70% of what we landscape with. The roses we do not grow are under patents and are Knockouts and Drifts. Both sand and clay soils present their own unique challenges but we plant the same varieties in both.

Antique roses that do well here are primarily from the Tea, China, Noisette and Hybrid Musk classes. We have success with the single form of Knockouts and most of the Drift roses. We are always actively seeking moderns that we can grow. We love Belinda's Dream and use it in almost every landscape.

I'll try to post some photos tonight.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/3751411/rose-mulch-article-any-comments

Pine straw is a very popular use of mulch in the South.

Less growing of plant health with bark mulch and more disease.

I have to mention the Ohio State Mulch Study. Also Iowa State University and Georgia Kentucky and Texas A&M, Cornell and Penn State recommend mulching with compost preferred over wood/bark mulch.

Washington State recommends wood bark mulch.

It seems the pine bark mulch goes together with the powdery mildew.

I remember when I used chemical fertilizers and bark mulch I had roses with Powdery mildew. That was 10 years ago.

http://wtop.com/garden-plot-living/2016/03/garden-plot-keep-your-roses-growing-with-the-right-mulch/

Thank you, Val for your prompt reply, which answer all my questions. Yes, I would love to see pics. of roses in Florida. Khalid will be gone for 22 days in world-tour, so it's nice to see pics. from a warm climate like Florida. Jess in South Africa ... her roses are going in winter-dormancy. Our roses in zone 5a are just leafing out. I admire your nursery for not spraying with chemicals.

Thanks Sam for clearing things up, I understand that you went through the same discussion with folks in Rose forum. I went through that too, and people won't understand the pine-issue unless they have bad experience with that. It's great at first, but after years of using pine bark, the soil pH will drop in heavy rain climate.

Pine Straw is the same as Pine needle .. when I tested my 1-year old white-pine needles, I soaked in less than 5 min, and it registered neutral. But someone else tested it, and here's his result:

http://www.pinestrawdirect.com/PineStrawMulchAcidity-SeparatingFactFromFictionThroughAnalyticalTesting.pdf

"From this round of tests, it is clear that the fresh green needles leachate was initially acidic at 4.5, but following several simulations of rain and drying cycles over a few weeks time, the solution (the terms leachate and solution are used interchangeably here) was at the equivalent of rainwater pH. Over a period of 46 days, the needles were no longer acidic, with the pH being that of distilled water.

My fifth test utilized decomposed pieces of needles that were approximately one year old and obtained from the topmost layer of pine straw in a sunny and very dry area of my garden. After 30 minutes of soak time, the pH of the pine straw was 6.9, which was followed by a 24 hour soak test resulting in a pH of 6.0." by Scott Jacobs

Here are some photos from my yard taken this past week. We moved to this house 3 years ago, none of these roses have been in the ground for more than 2 years.

This is in front of my house. Those are Drift Roses in the foreground

This is our barn. The red rose is a local "found rose" a red China. Found red Chinas are common here it is probably a seedling that was not named. These roses were planted last fall.

This rose has been in the ground for one year. It is Polonaise, a Bucks rose. It looks like a winner

This is another Bucks call Prairie Sunrise

This "Birthday Girl" purchase last year from Heirloom

A mass planting of Belinda's Dream

Ivor, a great rose for my area. Very disease resistant.

Spring has sprung. Now all we need here is rain.

Khalid, I unintentionally left you out of the list of commenters to whom I owe gratitude for all the input. I have no idea what root stock my Munstead Wood is grafted onto. I will find out if I can. I think it was a mistake to buy one grafted rose for my garden of about 130 own root roses. She may need continual special care. Maybe she will be the beginning of a 'grafted section' in my garden since it isn't always possible to find the varieties I want on their own roots. Strawchicago's link given in the comment above was helpful. It didn't scare me into thinking my roses will all be dead by morning. My brain is bursting with information when all I wanted was someone to say pour milk or soapy water on it. Silly me. I won't do either of those things. Maybe ignorance IS bliss after all. Actually, I am grateful to have all this information to refer back to, because something covered here will no doubt come up again.

Keeping my fingers crossed it's on multiflora! But, I bet it's on Dr. Huey.

Yep, my grafted rose is on Dr. Huey - I inquired at Northland Rosarium, where it was purchased. And, big mistake by me - it is not Munstead Wood - it is Winchester Cathedral. I bought a lot of roses at the same time, and the tags were intertwined. I didn't notice my mistake until I pulled the one with powdery mildew away from the others. I already have a 4 yr old WC on it's own roots in my garden that has never had PM. This will be an interesting comparison.

Strawchicago, I am glad to know about your experience with your Pink Peace on Dr. Huey needing lime and potassium. I will remember that if my new Winchester C gets black spot. I have not have trouble with BS here, for some reason, but you never know.

Thank you, floweraremusic, for the update. My Pink Peace grafted on Dr. Huey was a blackspot fest, until I dug it up to put lime & potassium in the planting hole. It's 100% healthy now, and survived my zone 5a winter .. my other own-root-Pink-Peace died through the winter. Hybrid-tea are best grafted on Dr. Huey for zone 5a winter-survival ... Dr. Huey is much deeper root than own-root, plus cheap.

Recently I got 3 roses grafted on Dr. Huey only $5 each from Walmart, sprouting healthy leaves in my alkaline clay. Sam's club and Menards have them $7 each in a container, with lots of blooms, If treated right, grafted-on-Dr.Huey can be healthy & survive winter better.

For Austin roses, I prefer own-root, since they get too-big. I am receiving Munstead Wood from Roses Unlimited for Mother's Day. Husband ordered that for me last year along with Poisedon, Lady of Shallot, and Dee-lish.

Ahhh, all beautiful roses! I was worried about Poisedon surviving here. I think it's rated to zone 6, but if it's doing well in your garden, it might survive in mine. I bought Love Song instead because it's similar and rated to zone 5. However, it did not survive winter. I won't dig it up until June, hoping to eventually see some green peeking up from the base. I was sure I lost Dainty Bess, but was surprised to see some new growth yesterday. I have no luck with Hybrid Teas, but couldn't resist that one.

You have fabulous luck finding good roses at the big box stores! Me, not so much. I did, however, find First Crush, own roots, at my grocery store. I love that rose!

Maybe it would be a good idea to start my grafted rose off with some lime and potassium when I plant it.

Hi Floweraremusic: Seil in MI provides honest info.. as to what roses survived her zone 6b winter. Love Song died on her few winters ago, thanks to Seil I did not order Love Song. Seil reported that Dee-lish died on her, so I'm a bit worried .. might change that to an Austin rose if Roses Unlimited allow such late change.

Sandy/loamy soil has a better track-record of winter-survival than heavy clay. Acidic clay is worse, Niels in Denmark (zone 5b) lost 1/3 of his hundreds of roses. One late fall, I had clayish-bagged-top soil, versus loamy compost sitting outside. The clayish-bagged-soil got frozen in solid ice, but the loamy-compost didn't get frozen .. I was able to use that for winter-protection.

For my new roses I have to make it moist, yet loamy soil for best winter survival. I have a big raised bed for roses .. one dry winter I lost 4 roses in that bed. But this wet winter? The roses in raised bed did great, but the one in low-lands (wet heavy clay) are a bit late.

In my heavy alkaline clay, zone 5a, roses died more of dryness than wetness ... these are late in sprouting, but they still make it. Only one loss this year: Bronze Star on a steep & dry hill. I should had known better that orange-color-roses prefer it wet. My fault for not moving it to a wet low land.

Makes sense that the roses in clay didn't do as well as the ones in loamy soil. I use a lot of compost (about 2/3) mixed in the soil that comes out of the hole I'm planting in. Seems to help. So much depends on the winter. We get a lot of freeze/thaw/freeze/thaw and that is murder on roses. Good luck with Dee-lish, if you go ahead with her. Gorgeous blooms and heavenly fragrance! Might be worth experimenting. With the right weather and care, our late ones may surprise us and make up for lost time.