"meh" is a great description. Perfect, in fact. Would like to pour it all out but, instead, I'll use it on the wool loads.

Yes, @miami miami, a wine drinker. Made a living for most of my life using the ol' taste buds but it comes with a downside on cleaning products, perfumes, lotions and soaps. I won't even get started on hotel rooms, other peoples homes, or cars LOL.

Roc, I was also cursed with a good sniffer. I can enter peoples home and know those that wash bedding in hot and those that don't. I can smell dirty bedding. It seems to fill the air. I don't think the owners smell it, I really think some people remove their bedding from the machines and they smell downy or other products and it all smells clean and fresh to them, but I can smell the old body oils. I've been surprised a few times, people with beautiful, very expensive homes and belongongs, very orginized and clean homes, with bedding that stinks. do you know the smell I'm talking about? And I know people that have the stinky bed syndrome do not smell it themselves.

Roc-not to turn your thread into a wine one, but with your nose and palate I'm sure you have some wonderful recommendations!

And mamap, I have 3 brothers and know that smell very well-yuck! I can smell it the second I walk into one of my bros apartments. He's a bachelor and has no clue. I've tried to teach him about washing the bedding in hot and washing way more often. Who knows if he's actually doing it. Lol

Beds are one thing. Sure. But I get it from carpets, upholstery and draperies. I can hardly touch bedspreads. We rented a house in Italy one year. It was so horrible I made them pull every piece of furniture out, vacuum, wash floors, and put it all back. I should have charged the landlord a cleaning fee. Towels are another issue. And closets.

@miami - What kind of wine do you like?

I like all of them. But my top picks are Pinot noir, red blends, followed by Syrah (or Aussie Shiraz )

For whites I love a good German reisling, unoaked chard, Pinot Gris

I know what you mean about the smells, esp from new things, I can't stand new carpet , furniture, drapes, etc. I can smell the off gassing. Blech!!

You have good taste @miami mami - sounds like you know what you're buying. Ever tasted Jam Jar? I'm a zin grl. It's a concentrated zin but you sound like you go for lighter bodied wine. These days most of my wines are under $12. I look for good buys. Back in the day I was able to drink classified Bx and white French wines at reasonable prices. No longer. Just glad I don't feel I missed anything LOL

I have a better time discerning reds, but a couple whites I love when I can find them: Vouvray and Viognier. But I agree with @Miami that an unoaked Chard, sitting at an outdoor cafe in the summer, is hard to beat.

Ok so jam jar looks right up my alley, Roc! You're right, I do tend to go lighter bodied, cuz it's so dang hot here most of the year, medium and lighter bodied wine feel more refreshing. But I do adore the fuller bodies wines as well, I've been to Bordeaux and Burgundy tastings and very quickly learned that while I love these wines, esp anything out of Burgundy, yum, I cannot regularly afford them so I save for special occasions. You guys sure do love your Loire valley, I will have to see if I can find one of these whites. For regular consumption like Roc I tend to stay under $15, less if I can find it.

Woolite is great for cleaning coated leather furniture and car seats. According to a detailing forum I used to frequent, that came straight from Cadillac

Sspeer9, that doesn't sound like wine, lol.

Back on wine topic, Roccocogurl what would you recommend for an August wedding. My daughter likes red. I thought a red and a white, or those pale pale pink wines might be a good combo to offer guest. My daughter and her fiance might have ideas already, as he is a foodie and works in the hospitality industry. I'd love to keep the bottles on the cheap side too, as we are paying for it. I too try to keep my wine purchases under $15. There is actually a local vineyard that has a rather nice white with a bit of a fizz to it. I love supporting local. But the reds are made from the cold hardy grapes (that I think were developed in NY over the years). Iowa gets really cold and bitter in the winder with high winds to desiccate just about all living matter.

ETA, I'm bookmarking this page!

@enduring - There are many good wines under $15 -- so many. For an August wedding, I think you could offer a white, a rose and a red. If your future SIL is in the hospitality industry he may have some ideas and perhaps a source? The only thing I would say is be sure to taste the wines you choose before hand, of course. And then when you buy be sure it's exactly the same vintage. Those wines can vary a lot from year to year even though they are often blended.

Do you need Champagne also?

I would be less interested in local than in getting solid wines that just taste good and are at the right price point for a wedding. You want reliability. Honestly, nobody pays attention to the wine at a wedding IMO.

Thanks rococo. How long will a white wine store if I don't have a wine cellar or a wine frig? I have a basement that is coolish in the summer but that really does depend on the summer and how hot it is outside. This is an old basement with clay block foundation. How about storage for a red under the same conditions?

Not more than 10 days without temperature control. Can the store where you order store them and deliver a day or two in advance? Of course, if you're having 300 to the wedding that's a different story.

No need to worry about storing reds unless you're serving classified Bordeaux LOL. Just don't want wine to get hot.

So the whites just a few days otherwise temp control. The reds would store in the basement without issue. Thank you so much for the help. There will be about 80 people and we will have a beer too. Venue doesn't allow hard liquor. It will be at an arboretum.

Question, so when grocery stores have white wines sitting on the shelf for weeks, this is a problem with quality?

Wine needs temp control. Important to sample just before serving also -- just in case. Especially before an event. But sounds fine.

Yes, wine in a warm store for weeks and bottles upright are red flags. Plonk is plonk so if you're buying at a grocery store for every day that's one thing. You can take it back.

I would not buy wine for an event from a grocery store as the likelihood of a problem is much higher.

Also, I've seen wine stores with lighted displays and bottles standing up. I also don't buy those. Ideal wine temp is around 55F and light is not a friend to wine. Judge accordingly.

Got it. Thanks very much. Where do I look for wine by the case? An online source? Other places?

Do you have any local wine stores? What I do is go in and buy single bottles to taste. Then if I like them I go back and buy additional. Only trick is not to wait too long. Several stores here focus on modestly priced wines.

Closer to the event let me know what you find and if I can find it also I'll help you out virtually with the tasting.

I've been buying single bottles from Costco, but I don't know if I can buy bulk from them yet. We do have some stores, and a few grocery stores have specialized wine/beer/liquor departments. Those would probably work. Several years ago I did buy a case of a port from an online outfit in NY, that DH really liked. We had found it at Costco but then stopped carrying it. So I think we have some options, yeah! Very kind of you to share your knowledge. I has given me confidence.

My experience with Woolite (in a top load Speed Queen) was that the stuff makes a TON of suds. Even with low doses and in moderately hard water. No observation on how well it cleaned because I was using it up (to get rid of it) on dark colored/ lightly soiled clothing.

Wouldn't buy wine from Costco for a wedding though many might. You just don't know about transport and storage. Thing is to ID what you want then shop for it from the place most likely to handle it properly and at the best price.

I like this thread. 3 interesting conversations happening at the same time. I bet the men here find it a bit psychotic, but this is how women's minds work!

Since I was a little girl, I could smell dirty sheets a mile away even though I couldn't name the smell. I wash my sheets every Friday, and by Wednesday, my own sheets start to get that "lived-in" smell. I guess that makes sense that other people don't smell it, but I think it permeates the room! I wish I couldn't smell everything like I do, although rococo takes it to a new level; I don't know if I would have had the gumption to have everything removed out of a villa to be cleaned!

I use Woolite for handwashing...if anyone has a better recommendation, I will take it. I also have Woolite dark for the machine. I am not impressed. I guess I will keep it around for the wool blankets, but cabinet real estate is valuable; I may end up donating it.

I am going through a Viognier phase right now, and I, like Alex, have had a few glasses of unoaked Chardonnay lately. However, I am in a state because I had the most fabulous Cabernet 2 weeks ago. It was heavenly! Juicy berries galore. I really just can't stop thinking about it.

I don't know about the rest of the men here, but mine doesn't work all that differently than how you're describing! :)

LOL. I love it that you love it, el camino! I changed my sheets 3 days ago.

Rococogurl, I will definitely keep you posted on this wine topic. I am going to try these Viognier and Vouvray, that Alex started talking about and others have commented on.

Vouvray is a light and happy wine. Viognier is more complex to me, more of a developed white taste but a delicious one. It's so sad that French whites have become so unaffordable. I used to love Meursault and an occasional glass of Puligny-Montrachet. But, like so many things today, they have gone to the moon.

The whole smell thing is a mixed blessing. But I've learned that if I can smell something there usually is a reason and most often it's not a good thing.

Swear I'm not OCD but I am crazy clean. The other thing is what goes on in food stores and elsewhere. I sometimes must restrain myself from asking people to please wash their hands after they handle money and then go to get me food. Glove or no glove. Ugh. Maybe I should get a job as a health inspector.

Women's minds do work differently than MOST men's, ...women have had to be able to multi task, which means women's minds are able to think about more than one task at hand...a hundred years ago think a man was running arouns doing other chores while he was making the mounds in the earth to plant the corn..no he was doing one jobs..while a woman was attending all the household chores and nursing infants..its obvious to me that women have larger brains LOL... I did not say women were smarter than men so don't get your unmentionables in a uproar.....both sexes are equally intelligent... (except Mr Pinky) but women can do and think of many different things at once. Where most men concentrate on one issue at a time...

Roc....there's a small italian resturant in town here..I kinda of offered my services a few years ago there ..we were actually having lunch there when they suddenly became packed, than I overheard about an order that came in for 70 sandwhiches to a local machine shop..one waitress, 2 cooks...I walked to the kitchen told the one cook who happened to be the owner to grab me an apron as I had an hour to spare..she was making the sandwhiches at my arrival..I began dishing out all sorts of italian foods while I watched the owner..lord it must have bee 130 degrees in that kitchen..she had no gloves on and every few sandwhiches she wiped the sweat off her forehead with her hand..how absolutly gross...I was given 5 free dinner certifiicates for my help..that was 2 summers ago...we never used our free meal tickets and think I tossed them...shows you what can go on in the kitchen..

That's how I feel about sheets! Just about every human body excretion gets spread all over sheets. The thought of people using cold water to wash their sheets...may as well wipe your brow sweat and make a few sandwiches!

And I know there are people that use cold water and just use a coldwater detergent. And frankly depending on how cold their cold is very likely will see some stains removed...but body oils are a completely different matter..thats not shifting in anything less than at least very warm. Some peoples build up so much that you can see the waxy build up on the sheets and pillowcases. I know I'm picky about bedding, I don't think I'm OCD, I just think for myself I insist on good laundry practices in my house. I've been told by my hubs that I cause more work for myself because I do bedding mostly every 3to4 days, and although I include mine in that timeline I generally do mine sometimes every two days..Amiees daily of course. That does result in a lot of ironing, but I do only iron Amiee's and mine, still that's a lot of ironing. My nose gets me into this...same reason I can't eat meat..I get a whiff of raw meat and that's it, all I can smell is fresh dead meat..LOL. Like PJ's. They are worn once.

Total wine has vouvray and Viognier! These both sound like light summery wines tho Viognier sounds more medium bodied- cannot wait to try! And most are in the 12-15 dollar bottle range. Also want to recommend Layer Cake wines to you guys, they have a Malbec that is amazing, and a red blend called Sea of Stones. Also Apothic wines is more affordable, and I love their "crush" vintage if you can find it! I haven't met anyone who didn't like it!

Oh totalwine.com

Thank you Miami, (is wine your vise, lol)

Thanks for totalwine miami. Will take a look. Will look for Layer Cake and Sea of Stones. I've had one Apothic but it wasn't love. I tend to like full bodied cabernet so it was a bit on the light side for me. But not sure if the Apothic was crush.

At Christmas I bought wine gifts. Ironside was recommended. Huge, huge hit and delicious. About $15-16/bottle. I had the 2013 vintage which was very good in Cali. If you can ever find any of this grab it.

http://www.winedeals.com/ironside-cabernet-sauvignon-2013-750-ml-79490.html?vfsku=79490&vfsku=79490&gpla=pla&gclid=CKO04PeDnswCFcYfhgodDPAG0w

Going to taste the 2014 which just came in and see if it's any good.

Roc maybe apothic dark you would like. Special vintage, only made one season. But careful, stains teeth! And enduring-yes, although I'm still learning more all the time as the world of wine is huge!

Roc if you tried apothic red I'm surprised you didn't care for it. It's a 4 varietal red blend. Zin, merlot, cab and Syrah. But maybe that's exactly what you *didnt * like about it- too much going on, perhaps.

I like to recommend it to ppl who arnt big into wine because everyone seems to love it and it's 8-11$ bottle!!

Let me know on the ironside as the 2013 is prob gone

Thanks for the updated discussion. I love Cabernet and Melbec. My daughter wanted a red wine for the wedding. I will try that ironside.

@enduring - If you can order the 2013 Ironside it would be a great red for a wedding. But risky with having wine shipped in the summer -- hot trucks and all.

@miami - Apothic is well regarded. Just not one I liked. Do like meritage. Excelsior Cabernet (SA) is more to my taste. Also like old vine Zinfandels.

Look at layer cake"s "Primitivo",Roc? Grown in the heel of the "boot of Italy ".....very old vineyard.

The list is getting longer, thanks ms fab roc !

Well the wedding is over and I bought 4 cases too many of our wine. OH WELL :) I'm drinking a glass of the Pinot Noir as I write this. The Rose' was spectacular. I have just under 2 cases of each left, lol. I've been using it here and there. I took a bottle over to neighbors for yoga night. And I'm set for the winter! The Garnet was $15/bottle and the Commanderie de la Bargemone was $16/bottle. I got a 10% discount for buying by the case. Everyone LOVED the wine (and that killer wedding cake)

This is what we got:

LOVE pinto noir! Woolite is meh at best. I have two bottles here I need to give away ... ugh.

Ah, yes vino vinyasa....happy washing after!

You'll have to come over, cause I have 2 cases, lol! I'm trying to get my Woolite for Darks used up. I have not liked it very well, but I do like the scent. I gave an extra shot of it in the blacks today to try and hurry it along. Very sudsy, maybe it will clean a little better.

Thread bump. Woolite has been my mainstay when I put handwash items in the FL on the handwash cycle....

Suggestions ?

Yes, I'd like an alternative. I use Woolite in my FL for all my Tommy Bahama silk shirts. I'd be afraid to wash them in any type of Tide, which is what I use for everything else.

Typically I use Tide Pur Clean, and very little of it (Instead of Woolite). Now about the wine... I will wait a few days until the big 21 to give my opinions.