I don't think it's such a mystery. Not if you know anything about addiction, how one gets to the point they are soo desperate for a drugs results they will do about anything to get it. Fentanyl became most famous for deaths in the rich and famous it was part of. It began as pain relief and then illegal drug users 'discovered' it gives them a high on top of the physical cessation of pain. Addiction is bad news that's for sure. We don't seem to have discovered a great way to help those with that illness. We are in great denial in this country about mental illness that is often at the root of 'recreational' drugs, as well as a host of other 'cures' that should be handled psycho socially not medically. Ya can't fix the symptom w/o facing the actual social/emotional issue.

Good points, arcy!

Punishment hasn't worked, yet some still think that's the only answer.

I know it's virtually "UnAmerican" to look outside our borders for what other nations are doing, but...aren't there some ideas we could try?

I've heard of clinics where *safe* drugs are dispensed to addicts -- and where addicts know they can get addiction help instantly, just by asking for it from the people they've learned to trust at the clinic. One of the big problems here is the lack of affordable treatment without long waits for help.

The Puritanical types amongst us will have none of that! It's condoning bad behavior, doncha know 🙄

I figure it would be cheaper to provide addiction assistance since it costs so much to put people in prison for being addicted but somehow that doesn't seem to be the choice. If we add more clinics without stringent oversight it just becomes another cash cow for scam artists just like prisons for profit have become. It is just too frustrating. Peoples lives are at stake.

Fentanyl is interestingly a fairly old drug dating back to the late sixties when it was made available. I think it was developed in the 50's. We just never heard much about it until it became the drug of choice for addicts. Apparently it is very cheap to make from easily available ingredients. It has legitimate uses.

Tangental: A PA in the cancer center's pain clinic prescribed Methadone. When it was filled, I was required to also take a kit with Naloxone, the nasal spray that reverses a narcotic overdose. (I decided against taking this, but thought the requirement interesting.)

" I figure it would be cheaper to provide addiction assistance since it costs so much to put people in prison for being addicted but somehow that doesn't seem to be the choice. "

There's no question that it does - harm reduction policies like supervised injection sites save lives and save money, and that's been backed up by studies on those that have been around for almost 30 years.

Incarceration is certainly very expensive. I don't think people trust the idea of addiction assistance because it is dependent on an addict showing up over and over and not relapsing. We don't tend to trust human nature in these circumstances. Better safe than sorry I suppose. I would have to see these studies mentioned above. Given the crime riddled streets where drugs are decriminalized I have my doubts on their telling the whole truth.

" Given the crime riddled streets where drugs are decriminalized I have my doubts on their telling the whole truth. "

Google for studies on "safe injection sites", or "supervised injection sites", because it's not about decriminalizing drug use, nor is it about just treating drug use - it's about reducing the harm of drug use to the user and to the community: Harm (and death) to the addicts, harm to the public from dealing with the detritus of their drug use, harm to the public from increased ambulance and ER needs, and harm to the finances of the governments that would otherwise pay for their emergency health care and death care (and the care of those they transmit disease to).

(Not all the safe injection sites are in locations with decriminalization policies - in some cities, drugs are only legal inside the SIS.)

Normalizing drug use. Ridiculous. Look what we have become.

I took a CPR class through our School District last month. We were given mouth guards and the gal said she would never give mouth to mouth to a person she randomly came across because of fentanyl. You don't know if that's what they ingested. I was, naively, shocked that was the reason.

”Normalizing Drug Use”! Sheesh, last time I went a day without coffee…my head split in two. Oh boy, am I ever addicted to coffee.

Folk get easily addicted to Rx just ask the Sadler family how that came about, if they dare be truthful, that is!

No easy answers, but jail is not one.

I stopped buying Heroin and Cocaine about 6 years ago because they mix Fentanyl with it. I like a little heroin a couple times a year, and Cocaine (not Crack!) for a bimonthly binge but fear the damn fentanyl so much I quit, I can take it or leave it and responsible with my drug abuse but don't have a death wish.

Illicit Fentanyl should be classified a weapon of mass destruction with trafficking a terrorist act with a mandatory death sentence with no appeal., leave compassion out of it.

Purchasing illegal drugs for fun? You were supporting the illegal drug system that kills people.

Drug use is already normal.

I not only support safe injection sites I also support enforced drug treatment. If a person breaks any of the rules it is off to rehab. People will tell you the addicted have to be ready to quit but I figure keep giving them a chance to be ready and maybe it will stick. We are certainly willing to pay to endlessly send them back to prison.

Such sites keep people off the streets. Besides first responders, I'm sure many who live in cities and other areas where public drug abuse is a big problem might appreciate that.

" and the gal said she would never give mouth to mouth to a person she randomly came across because of fentanyl. You don't know if that's what they ingested. I was, naively, shocked that was the reason. "

There are many good reasons for being wary of mouth-to-mouth (and why they make barrier devices for that), but fenatnyl is a pretty weak reason. A bigger reason would be the risk of diseases like HIV or Hepatitis. I'm not saying fentanyl could never be absorbed that way, but a) you'll probably recognize a drug overdose situation, and b) risk of transmission that way is very slight.

Even if you don't do mouth-to-mouth in a situation of cardiac arrest, chest compressions are still helpful.

Normalizing drug use. Ridiculous. Look what we have become.

I know, right? Caffeine? Nicotine? Look at how normal they've become! And alcohol! That does a lot more damage to the people around the drinker than to the drinker themselves (in my opinion), and it's not just normalized but promoted!

I think what you've become is someone who doesn't recognize reality and doesn't want to deal with it.

i haven't read all of the comments here but i'll say this...if this occurrence doesn't convince you of the fact that fentanyl is everywhere, and how dangerous it is, i don't know what will.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/husband-bronx-day-care-owner-returns-us-wife/story?id=103573555

A nurse that I used to work with (small town so I still hear what she's up to) and 3 friends went to New Orleans to party and nurse and one friend bought some cocaine. The cocaine was pinkish. I've seen cocaine and it's always been white. So the two snort it and pass out. Luckily the two other friends were there and were able to call for help and EMS was able to intubate and save nurse, but friend died. Friend had a 3 year old. It's not just addicts who die. Lots of consequences for the survivor nurse, including eventually losing her license.

Oh yes, cocaine was laced with fentanyl, as I'm sure you have figured out

" Toronto et al. you all have very low standards. "

What makes you say that? Because we have compassion for addicts and don't want to see them dead? Because we want fewer addicts using public hospital and EMS time and money?

Seriously - so do high standards involve cruelty and neglect?

Haven't we learned anything from Prohibition of Alcohol? Once it was legal, it could be held to label standards and age-regulated sales.

No, we'd rather hold our noses high and invite all the carnage around *illegal*, but plentiful, drugs. People are dying because we won't control drugs the only way they can be controlled -- from production through sale.

These cheap ingredients only reward their producers and sellers because they are not available and regulated by law.

More people die from alcohol-related causes every year than opioids or fentanyl. Not sure we have any good answers if we don't invest in making sure every child is taken care of, parents and families receive help they need for their children to grow up feeling safe, healthy, and happy and mental health services are readily available to all. I am not hopeful because it seems people look at poverty and mental health issues as being due to a moral weakness.

PBS

I thought about this discussion yesterday while listening to a recent episode of This American Life about hotlines. They profiled some folks who volunteer for a rather unusual one called Never Use Alone, that allows people to call and get non-judgemental help when they're using, in case they OD. The main person profiled is a nurse whose daughter is addicted to drugs, after being introduced to them by a boyfriend. Her main wish: don't die.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/809/the-call

I thought about some of the negative opinions expressed here, and elsewhere, and wondered if they might be different after hearing the stories of these people.

I’m curious what statistics aside from tax revenue make alcohol a model for substance regulation.

Didn't Prohibition give a huge boost to big crime syndicates?

Well sure you make anything people want illegal and you invite crime. But from a substance abuse perspective alcohol is about as bad as it gets.

I only found a 1999 article speaking to the costs of both alcohol and drugs. Yes, alcohol costs were much higher, largely because they calculated the potential earnings lost to individuals addicted to alcohol. With drugs, 50% of the costs were related to the criminal element -- fighting sellers and losses due to addicts financing their addiction through crime.

" the potential earnings lost to individuals addicted to alcohol. "

It also often affects the potential and earnings of multiple family members, including those born with FAS.

I agree - alcohol does terrible things to people's bodies, and can be quite addictive for a lot of people.

It's a slower poison than an overdose of fentanyl, tho - and it's only illegal if you're under 18.

Under 21, not 18.

They changed the drinking age when I was 18. That was decades ago. I'm pretty sure I live in one of the very last states, if not the last state to change that law. Which is odd, because it's a blue light state. We passed buying alcohol on Sunday not that long ago. (Wow! We're sort of mid-range)

But I agree alcohol kills lots of people.

Oops - been a long time since I paid attention to the minimum drinking age 😁

Alcohol has had it's issues so we should allow all forms of mood altering chemicals? That point all too often derails safety. You don't hear about alcohol being made laced with poisons. You don't hear about people killed by slipping alcohol into someone's apple juice. Adults making decisions to consume chemicals is costing us all and not just financially. THAT should matter.

" That point all too often derails safety. You don't hear about alcohol being made laced with poisons. "

Not anymore, but it was often poison during the brief period it was illegal.

The only reason I know Carol? I was grandfathered in. Me and my classmates. If you were out with your parents, you could order alcohol at 18. Weird, eh?

" If you were out with your parents, you could order alcohol at 18. Weird, eh? "

That's a weird kind of law, but an interesting idea.

Bear in mind, thanks to the ilks such the Sadler family, is how many folk began their addictions!

It's an uphill battle against a mindset that believes addiction is only a matter of willpower, and people who fall into it are lacking in moral fiber, so therefore do not deserve what's viewed as coddling.

“ You don't hear about alcohol being made laced with poisons.”

Maybe not being made laced with poisons, but rohypnol (and other drugs) are often slipped into alcoholic drinks. Just as fentanyl is slipped into other substances.

In addition, some people will drink isopropyl alcohol, with possibly fatal consequences.

I saw Narcan for sale at the kroger pharmacy. Not a bad idea to have it around these days 🤔

" Not a bad idea to have it around these days 🤔 "

Just make sure you know how, and how much, to use.

Toronto, I thought you could not overdose on it?

P.S. the side effect, is vomiting. Just so people know. Better than death?!

" Better than death?! "

Yup, but too much can cause fever, vomiting, tremours, diarrhea, and/or increase heart rate and blood pressure.

Or being dead?

Just read earlier that 74 former patients are now suing Yale over the stolen fentanyl...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryroeloffs/2023/10/11/lawsuits-against-yale-mount-as-more-women-claim-nurse-stole-pain-medication-during-torturous-fertility-procedures/

It seems clear Yale didn't have good oversight protocols in place to prevent the thefts and abuse of the drug - along with failing to adequately care for the patients who were harmed.

And there are links to other reporting showing that hospital drug thefts by staff don't seem to be an isolated problem.

" And there are links to other reporting showing that hospital drug thefts by staff don't seem to be an isolated problem. "

It's also not new - it's been a concern and an occasional problem for many decades, probably at least over 50 or 60 years......Some people are not trustworthy around the pull of narcotics (to use or sell).

Years ago I had to put a Fentanyl patch on my husband’s arm. They told me to be very careful not to touch that side of the patch. I was very careful but diidn’t think to use gloves.

About 20 years ago I had a herniated disk in my neck at C6-C7 and the nerve had fused into the disk. I was in the worst pain of my life. I had to lay off the high doses of Oxy I had been taking 12 hours prior to surgery. When I arrived into pre-op they gave me morphine to try to ease the pain and it didn't even touch it. Then they gave me a tiny dose of Fentanyl into my IV and a few seconds later the pain was completely gone. I told them to just send me home with some of that stuff and I could skip the surgery.