Hi Runerat: Khalid's pots are best, with 140+ blooms per rose per pot !! He uses breathable terracotta pots, river soil, and homemade compost with wood-ash (20 to 25% calcium and 4% potassium).

Few months ago I dug up a Texas research that showed how Knock-out rose gave more blooms & healthier in a breathable pot like Smart-Pot ... over plastic pot. Right after that I ordered a 10-gallon Smart-pot from Amazon for $10, but after receive that, I wish I had ordered a 15-gallon instead. The 10-gallon side isn't high enough, it's more broad than tall.

A large terracotta pot would be more expensive & heavier than a 15-gallon Smart-pot. MG-moisture control potting soil is best if you use breathable pots. Make sure that you mix 1 cup gypsum per 2 cups of Tomato Tone (NPK 4-6-6) if you use a pot 10 gallon or larger. Gypsum has calcium sulfate, and calcium is important for root-growth. Slow-released granular NPK 4-6-6 will provide phosphorus (root-growth), and potassium (root-growth).

Tomato Tone is safe for the planting hole .. I did that with many roses. Tomato's root is even smaller than rose's root, and I put 2 cups of Tomato-tone in the hole with a bumper crop of tomato later. If you can't find Tomato Tone then Plant-tone is OK.

Espoma Plant tone NPK is 5-3-3, and Rose tone NPK is 4-3-2 compared to Tomato-Tone at NPK 4-6-6. All the Espoma's Tone have feather meal, composted chicken manure, alfalfa meal, bone meal for slow-release, lasting more than a year.

Espoma's Tone have microbes added, but I would still add soil from a river nearby for trace elements & microbes & humic acid, plus a few earthworms into the pot to make the soil fluffy.

Excellent thread! I hope y'all don't mind if I butt in with some questions. I have a pack of 5 7-gallon Smart Pots, but none of my roses are big enough for them yet. What happens when you try to move a rose in a Smart Pot? Does lifting the pot by the handles disturb the soil and thus the roots? What if you need to repot the rose? I've heard reports of the roots becoming embedded in the pot so you can't remove the plant without damaging them. If that's true, it seems that it would be difficult to grow a small band up from a 1-gallon to a 15-gallon. Finally, I wonder about drainage - can the pot be placed on a hard surface, or does it need to be raised up so air can circulate on the bottom? Just my thoughts; have not had the experience. Probably overthinking...

StrawC, Khalid - You guys are the best. Thanks for the helpful tips.

I grow a large number of roses in pots. I use black plastic nursery pots on black nursery mats in Florida. I think that the most important element is the potting soil, it must have a large enough pore space so that the pot can drain well. Garden soil is usually too dense to use in a pot. I use both a pine bark mix and a Canadian peat mix with equal results. Keeping the pots moist can be a challenge, in the summer, sometimes I need to water 3 times a day. For fertilizer I use a "slow release".

If I'm growing on a hard surface, I make "feet" for my pots. 4 pieces of 1" PVC pipe cut into 1" lengths and placed equally spaced along the bottom edge of the pot, works for me, though I have use large flat pebbles.

Hi Val O: Agree with you that fast-draining soil works best for plastic pot. My best result (for plastic pot) was a composted-pine-pro-mix. My worse result (for plastic pot) was Lowe's Sta-green potting soil (black peat & too dense).

Folks in hot climate & less rain complained that Smart-Pot (fabric) dries out faster than plastic pot. But Smart-Pot is ideal for climate like my Chicagoland, where we get heavy rain for hours, which can fill a 32 gallon in 10-minutes from my rain-spout.

Hi Springrose: The lady nearby grew her veggies in 7-gallon Smart-Pots .. they produced more fruits than my heavy clay, and more fruits than my plastic pots.

I can see aggressive Dr. Huey root going through the fabric and become entangled .. but that's NOT a problem with wimpy own-root. Even the most aggressive own-root, Frederic Mistral (4' x 4'), was mostly surface root, less than 12" deep after 3-years.

Most own-root are tiny .. I grew 40+ own-roots in pots for 6 months first, before transferring to the ground. When I transferred own-roots into the ground, each root occupied less than 2 gallon, compare that Dr. Huey which went down 4 inch. in just 2 months.

Personally I think fabric-pot would be easier to get the rose out without damage. When I took own-roots from plastic pot, soil clung to the pot, and I damaged lots of root when I took the rose out. It's even worse with Styrofoam, sometimes I lost 1/2 of the root since soil clung to the side. That won't be the case with fabric, it's flexible, so soil won't cling to the side, and one can take the rose out easily.

The best thing about Smart-Pot is one doesn't need to put anything under to lift it up for drainage. It was a nuisance to put plastic-pots on wooden planks .. the lady nearby had at least 10 Smart-pots, they sat against a cement patio, zero problems with drainage, thus much healthier.

Thank you Straw. I guess then my main concern with the Smart Pots would be our hot, dry summers. I do plan on growing several own-root roses in pots and one reason is that I want them to stay smaller because of limited space.

A possible idea to insulate Smart-pots in hot summer, but still let air in like Khalid's Terracotta pots. I went out to inspect my roses after a cold winter, the ones with alfalfa hay piled up did best: well-insulated against the cold winter & moist & airflow & earliest to sprout.

If I have many 7-gallon-Smart-pots, I would group them in one spot, have them next to each other to prevent moisture from escaping from the sides, then on the outskirt pile up alfalfa hay. That will keep the inside cooler & prevent moisture from escaping on the side. Alfalfa hay are cheap at $8 for a big bale, They stand upright in blocks so one can arrange them on the OUTSIDE of a group of Smart-Pots.

strawC - no river nearby so no river soil. Would you recommend MG Moisture control potting soil in Terra cotta pots or was your recommendation for using that soil was only for SmartPots?

My roses that Chamblee Nursery sent seems to be growing in some kind of mulch mix. When transplanting them either to the terra cotta pot or in the ground, should I lift up the roses with the growing medium and plant them? What is your recommendation?

Runerat: Both Terracotta pots and SmartPots dry out faster than plastic pot, so MG Moisture control would be good for both Terracotta and SmartPot. In my kid's 6th-grade science experiment, she tested seedling-potting soil vs. ORGANIC MG-potting soil (with chicken manure) vs. clay vs. sandy soil & fertilizer, and the ORGANIC MG-potting soil led the pack with her mung-bean plants, in VERY well-drained plastic containers with many large-holes underneath, elevated on wooden planks.

If the ORGANIC MG-potting soil is the same price as MG moisture-control, I would choose ORGANIC MG-potting soil .. I tested both soils with roses in pots, plus my kid's science experiment, plus a pepper-grower tested different types of potting soil on-line ... and ORGANIC MG-potting soil beat everything.

When you receive roses from Chamblee, lift the entire rose with the growing media and put in a bigger location (either a terra-cotta pot, or in-ground). It's easier to lift the entire root-ball out when it's damp & dry, but if I water the pot in advance, that's when the root-ball sticks to the pot, and roots get damaged when I take it out.

Chamblee's growing medium is excellent, it's best to leave their root-balls intact.

strawC - thank you. Apology for not acknowledging your response earlier. I did use MG Organic potting soil & used your advise & left the root ball intact.

I'm about to put four own-root 1-gallon plants from Roses Unlimited into 3-gallon Smart Pots. Sent my husband to the store and he got EcoScraps Natural & Organic Moisture Retaining Potting Mix. It contains pine bark, coir, compost from vegetables and some perlite. Should I add any gypsum or fertilizer to that?

Hi springrose: I put MG-moisture control potting soil (denser than your potting soil) in my 10-gallon Smart-Pot yesterday, dumped a 5-gallon water into that .. was VERY IMPRESSED at how fast it drains.

Then I put the same soil into a 2-gallon plastic pot (tons of holes at bottom), dumped a 2-gallon water into that, the water was floating above for a while .. even with wooden-planks to elevate the pot.

So I took hubby's drill and drill more holes on the side of that plastic pot. Yes to gypsum .. the year which I forgot put gypsum into pots it was a blackspot fest. But the years which I put 1 cup of gypsum per 3-gallon soil, roses were healthy. Gypsum is calcium sulfate at pH 6.8, and calcium is essential for root-growth and thicker-tissue to prevent pests and fungal infection. The granular gypsum is slower release, and that's what you want. Roses Unlimited recommended gypsum, plus lime in the hole if the soil is acidic.

My favorite granular fertilizer to mix into the planting hole is Tomato-Tone or Rose-tone, I prefer Tomato-Tone since it's higher in potassium & higher calcium. Rose tissue analysis is equal nitrogen to potassium, 1/2 calcium, and 1/10 phosphorus. Potassium is just as important as nitrogen. Tomato-Tone has more green sand (slow-release potassium) than Rose-tone.

Espoma Tone is sold everywhere for $10 per 5 lb. I use 1 cup per 3 gallon of soil. The year which I put Tomato-Tone in the planting hole, my tomato produced many times more within our short-growing zone 5a summer.

I just dug up a hole which I put Tomato-Tone & leaves few weeks ago, there more earthworms than hole with leaves, or hole with alfalfa meal. I put a few earthworms along with 1/2 cup of Espoma Tomato-tone and 1/2 cup of gypsum for my 2-gallon plastic pot. I reduce the dosage since my tiny bands are so small, less fertilizer is best .. both Roses Unlimited and Chamblee recommended only SOLUBLE fertilizer, no granular for 1st-year own-root, so alfalfa meal would be safer for tiny roots than Espoma tone's.

Since Smart-Pot dries out faster plastic, I would prefer alfalfa-meal or Standlee alfalfa pellets over Tomato-Tone. Why? alfalfa-meal retains moisture better, and safer on the root of 1-gallon own-root in hot Texas climate.

The pic. of 1st year own-root Scepter'd Isle which I posted in 100 degree heat had alfalfa meal in the planting hole. Alfalfa meal has calcium plus NPK of 3-1-2, but a tiny bit of SOLUBLE sulfate of potash would help for root-development. Gypsum is not best when one's soil is acidic, thus the calcium in alfalfa meal is safer. That pic. is in Nancy Rose's thread below:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3880697/need-help-for-my-austin-rose-scepterd-isle?n=3

I would mix it with some native soil and my own compost and more perlite. And also a few amendments.

Thanks, Straw. I don't have alfalfa meal or Tomato-tone, but I did pick up a bag of EcoScraps tomato fertilizer 5-4-6 a while back. I also have a bag of horticultural corn meal. Would either of those be useful?

Hi springrose: Corn meal is too acidic at pH 4, compared to alfalfa meal at pH 5.8. I tested cracked corn in the pot .. it was too acidic and my roses broke out in mildew. Nothing can beat alfalfa meal in hot & dry weather. It's worth getting for the health of your roses, all fertilizer have salt, except for alfalfa meal. Even gypsum has salt index of 8, and chicken manure is quite salty (Espoma'sTone have chicken manure).

Alfalfa meal or Standlee pellets actually work better on top (mixed with a bit of soil), than at bottom. As the soil shrink in the pot, I mix alfalfa with a bit of soil, and add that on top. When alfalfa is at bottom of pot, it soaks up water like a sponge, and roots get too wet.

EcoScraps at NPK 5-4-6 would be good for rainy weather ..but it won't be as moisture-retention as alfalfa meal (also have calcium). Calcium helps with high heat. There's a Texas A & M research that showed how calcium chloride helps plants to withstand drought and heat.

Ok, I think I will just pot up the roses in the potting mix and try some alfalfa mixed in on top, and save the tomato fertilizer for when I plant them in the ground. Thanks again!

Hi All, the rose bed i inherited has about 20 rose bushes. However, they seem to be struggling. I dug up one of the plants and found that there were a LOT Of feeder roots from other neighboring trees over/around the rose bush. What can i do to make my rose bushes thrive? Can i dig them out, plant them in either black nursery 10 gallon pots and place them back into the hole? Can i use these smart pots, but will the invasive non-rose roots be able to rob the rose of water/nutrients?

Try reposting on this thread. https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6145703/how-are-you-liking-your-new-additions-this-year#n=65

Lipika B If you put pots near roses: best to put them on cement blocks since tree roots DO CRAWL upward into pots.

Smart pots (fabric) are meant for fast-drainage as with vegetables or roses grafted on Dr.Huey. Own root roses need constant moisture so Smart pots are NOT best.

Khalid's Terracotta pots are best since it retains moisture plus cooler for summer plus allowing some air in for rooth growth.

In high rain climate, applying a wad of lime on top DOES NOT WORK. Lime is best mixed in with soil as Roses Unlimited's recipe of 4 gallons of soil & compost, 1/2 cup dolomitic lime (has 10% magnesium), 1/2 cup of gypsum, 1/2 cup of 46% superphosphate to balance out the calcium, and 1 cup of alfalfa meal OR 1/2 cup of Tomato Tone or Mills Magic Rose Mix.

https://www.soildoctorconsulting.com/pro-tips/13-soil-mistakes

An excerpt from above link: "Soil Mistake #12: Stratification.
Certain minerals are not soluble – lime and soft rock phosphate are two very common ones that come to mind. If applied but not incorporated into the soil, these minerals can build-up and form a layer in the soil.

In the case of lime, this layer, usually in the top 1” of soil will create a high pH environment and reduces the availability of P, Fe, Zn, Mn, Cu, and B.

This will create WAY more issues than you started with, especially because plants feed primarily in the top 6” of soil. A better way to apply these minerals is in super small quantities every year. The minerals will slowly work their way down into the soil profile through mass flow as a result of water percolation. Wait until your pH drops below 5.8 or so to apply a small amount of lime."

https://www.soildoctorconsulting.com/pro-tips/13-soil-mistakes