Where are the doorways going to? Are these doors or just openings? I don't like that when you open the pantry or fridge you will be blocking the door ways. Also, You have no landing spot for the items coming out of the microwave and oven in that pantry and oven wall. That is very uncomfortable to work in. What is the dimension between the pantry wall the cabinet wall (Size of the opening or size of the walkway)? Having the sink in the Island leaves very little prep space next to the sink on the island for my liking. Is there enough space on the back wall for all your counter top appliances and landing from the stove? Just some items to think about. I don't mind the split seating at the island. What are the rooms next to the kitchen just for reference and to determine who people in your home will interact with the space.

What is in the open space on the right in your overhead view?

Edit to add: Sorry, I re-read your post and you already said it's the dining area.

At the very least, I wouldn't put the DW between the sink and fridge, I'd switch it with the trash pull-out, and keep dishes in the 36" cabinet.

You have a lot of wasted counter on each side of the cooktop--have you considered putting the fridge by the DR, moving the ovens into the vacant space, and making a landing next to the ovens? Then center the cooktop and hood on the remaining space on the top wall. Or vice versa.

Third option:

Do you really need island seating?

Fair question. We want it, because we expect it to be a common place for kiddo to do homework, art projects, etc. In that sense the big expanse of island is really for multi-use.

Where are the doorways going to? Are these doors or just openings?

Sorry, the renderings are kind of sucky, and I didn't explain clearly. The door between the ovens and the cooktop cabinet run opens to the garage. The wider door on the other side of the cooktop run is a sliding glass door to our deck and is heavily used (often left open all day in warmer months). I really wanted to try to find the right balance between as much island counter as possible but not cutting off the sightlines and flow to that deck door.

Any other open "doors" or things you see in the renderings are not relevant or just limitations of my partial sketch. The kitchen and dining room open onto the living area, roughly like this:

I don't like that when you open the pantry or fridge you will be blocking the door ways.

Yes, it's a concern. The space between the pantry and the island is 56 inches, and they pull out about 20 inches. So that one is borderline. (I actually went to great length to get another six or eight inches there.) Slightly more troubling is the wall oven blocking the garage door, but we rarely use the oven, and even when we do the amount of time it is open is short.

The fridge french doors are 18" and open into that big open space. We have a regular full-door 36" fridge there now and don't really feel constricted in the space.

Having the sink in the Island leaves very little prep space next to the sink on the island for my liking.

Hmm, interesting. I could move the sink further to one side of the island, but as it is, I feel like it's pretty yuuuuge. (Sorry, couldn't resist!) There are 3.5' x 4' of open counter on both sides of the sink as pictured. With the cutting board or other flat item in the left part of the sink, that side becomes more like 4.5' x 4'. Still too tight, you think?

Is there enough space on the back wall for all your counter top appliances and landing from the stove?

We have only one full-time countertop appliance, our beloved Breville oven. It is in the sketchy on the far right, near the dining table and deck door.

What are the rooms next to the kitchen just for reference and to determine who people in your home will interact with the space.

To the "east" of the kitchen area is the dining space. South of the kitchen and dining is the open living area with a vaulted ceiling. One of the issues with this new design is that our new island is one foot wider and, thus, sticks out into the living room a little more. However, we don't have much living room furniture, and my feeling is that we spend a lot more time hanging around the kitchen area than sitting over in the living room part.

Thank you both for the good ideas/hard questions.

At the very least, I wouldn't put the DW between the sink and fridge, I'd switch it with the trash pull-out, and keep dishes in the 36" cabinet.

Yes, good catch. I actually had it the other way, but logistical issues with the island cabinetry and counter support forced me to switch it around. If I have the DW on the left when facing the sink, the cabients end up something like this:

Basically, a tiny 12", then the DW, then a 12" to handle the sink, plus a regular 36" sink cab, and then the 15" icemaker, and then a 24" cabinet. This orientation also means the DW is a foot further away from the main washing area of the sink, also because of that 12-inch sink extension that the Kohler Stages has.

I didn't want all the cabinetry so broken up (we prefer wider cabinets), and I didn't want to have to reach so far from the sink faucet to the DW, so I flipped it.

I like the idea of dishes in a drawer right next to the DW, but I've never done it before. Worth a try!

You have a lot of wasted counter on each side of the cooktop--have you considered putting the fridge by the DR, moving the ovens into the vacant space, and making a landing next to the ovens? Then center the cooktop and hood on the remaining space on the top wall. Or vice versa.

Very interesting suggestion. First, though, I must ask: why do you say the counter is "wasted"? I can cook on it, right? I don't really have any issues baking or chopping or whatever-ing on a standard counter. I love having long counter spaces to spread out on. Do you mean that it's wasted because there might be hot, messy stuff on the cooktop that precludes doing something else right next to it?

Anyway, as it happens, my very first kitchen plan had the oven stack on the right, where you put the fridge. But I eventually moved it over to the other wall, mostly because (a) we rarely use the big oven and (b) the big tall stack cuts off the sightline to the deck doors and probably would make it feel more closed-in.

One advantage of your proposal is that then we have a little mini-counter on the other wall where we can put the Breville, getting it out of the way. But then it is clear across the room from the place where the toast goes onto the plate and into my belly in the morning, so...

See this thread where will2kz put an Asko DW under the prep side of his Stages. Plus you can see the hidden pantry and lots more FUN STUFF!

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2670309/reveal-high-end-cooks-kitchen-cherry-miele-ample

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2687586/dishwasher-under-prep-end-of-kohler-stages-45-sink

You will do most of your prep near a water source, so to prep beside the cooktop you'd need to wash your items at the sink, then move everything across the aisle. You're spending a lot of money to prep on the sink. :)

If you bake a lot, the counter space by the cooktop might be more useful--for lining up filled baking pans, and for cooling racks, or if you plan to leave appliances out on the counter--stand mixer, toaster, blender, juicer, etc.

Doesn't the Stages sink come with the tray on either side? Or maybe it depends on the way it's mounted?

KOHLER K-3761-NA Stages 45" Stainless Steel Kitchen Sink · More Info

If you have no need for a cutting board cabinet, can you put the trash pull-out in the 12" slot? I have a 12" trash pull-out, and find it sufficient for a family of four.

I found pics of couple of GW members' Stages sinks:

bbtrix:

I understand why you want the cooktop and hood centered--it looks good. If you rearranged the fridge, oven, and pantry, at least the oven wouldn't be in front of the garage entry, and you'd have a choice of landing spaces. However, NKBA does not recommend having landing space for an oven across a walkway.

NKBA guidelines #23

See this thread where will2kz put an Asko DW under the prep side of his Stages. Plus you can see the hidden pantry and lots more FUN STUFF!

Now that is really interesting. (Plus the whole rest of his kitchen is neat, as you mention!)

I looked up the latest 24w Asko panel-ready washer. In the quasi-CAD diagram, they don't call out the actual height below the lip that is 33 7/8", but using my computer kung-fu skills (also known as, draw a box and count the pixels), it looks like the lip sticks up .62" above the rest of the washer, or 5/8".

Doing some quick math, 30" cab + 4.5" kick = 34.5. Minus 33 7/8 leaves 5/8". Plus the extra 5/8" from the way the Asko is shaped gives 10/8, or 1.25". Unfortunately, the Stages is just a hair under 2" thick at the drainboard.

So EITHER

(a) Asko doesn't make their DW to the same dims as Will's, or

(b) the actual dimensions are different than the diagram, or

(c) I mis-measured the diagram.

I'd probably have to find an actual Asko and pull it out of a box or display to see for sure.

Out of curiosity, I just went and downloaded some schematics for other washers. I didn't find a single other one that doesn't just show a continuous-height, solid rectangular blob across the whole 33 7/8". I happen to have a 2014 Bosch in my kitchen right now, so I am tempted to pull it tomorrow and have a look at it. The diagrams of most of the other manufacturers' DWs are much cruder and therefore may also be simply indicating the maximum height.

I love the idea of getting the DW up under the drainboard, though. It brings the washer closer to me and reclaims more linear cabinet space.

Well everithing is possible keep in mind these things

1) Not ovens should block doors access when is opened, is not safe and is inconvenience

2) You will run out of room on you over head cabinets very quick your cabinets are small and you only have four of them on your counter top next to the wall see if you can get taller cabinets

3)The island with the boots for your kids is fine. but remenber accidents hapen and a big sink spraying water in front of your kids home work to be turned in tomorrow can be a disaster but for a Sunday morning breakfast those booths are so confortable cooking and talking while your family eats is priceless

You're spending a lot of money to prep on the sink. :)

LOL, true. I'm spending a lot of money, period! I think my "project total" cell is close to breaking Excel at this point.

It's also true that we do a lot of baking and spreading out. I have basically the same counter run today (two feet shorter, actually) and I get a lot of use out of it. However, part of the reason for that is that my island is dysfunctional and its shape precludes its use for many tasks.

Doesn't the Stages sink come with the tray on either side? Or maybe it depends on the way it's mounted?

It's symmetric, so you can just flip it around, yes.

If you have no need for a cutting board cabinet, can you put the trash pull-out in the 12" slot? I have a 12" trash pull-out, and find it sufficient for a family of four.

I definitely need space for cutting boards and trays. I have lots of them. My current plan was to put them up above the ovens, but actually that is a little inconvenient for my... height-challenged... wife. The current design has only one space for them in a base cabinet, the lone 12"-wide cab on the "east" side of the island, facing the dining room.

The reason I can't put a trash pullout in 12" is because IKEA SEKTION doesn't have 12" drawers. They do make a 12" box, but you can only put shelves in it. My GC is also a carpenter and can fab anything I want, so I guess I could have him hack something up. But anyway, here we have curbside compost, recycling, and trash, so I really need three bins. One of them can be small since compost goes out almost every day.

I am really hoping my plumbing and disposal will be tight enough under the sink that I can fit all three trash bins in the massive 36w 30h sink pullout. I believe that will be possible, but the backup plan is to put them in the 15w drawers in the plan posted above.

So it's a bit of a messy conundrum, to be sure.

rjr220 in this thread.

Thanks for the pics and thread link. rjr's cabinets are custom, which is part of how he/she pulls that off. He/she also went 18" for the trash, which not surprisingly is also the first trash pullout width in the IKEA kitchens that really looks seriously functional (room for three good-size bins, in other words).

I'd love to go 18" as well, but I decided I'd rather have another of those sweet, sweet 36w drawer cabs and take my chances that I can put one or two bins under the sink and the other one or two bins in the 15".

I understand why you want the cooktop and hood centered--it looks good.

I agree, it looks nice, although in an earlier version I had it pretty far off center, and I went with open shelves on the right to further increase the asymmetry. I also thought that looked good, at least on paper. I'm not wedded to it, but it turns out that the best location for the exhaust ductwork to penetrate into the garage is right in the middle, so it's definitely a little easier to keep it there.

If you rearranged the fridge, oven, and pantry, at least the oven wouldn't be in front of the garage entry, and you'd have a choice of landing spaces.

You're pretty good at reading my mind, or at least anticipating in half a day all the variants that took me three months to come up with. :-)

We thought about putting the pantry against the wall, but honestly, we just hit the pantry constantly. Until this very latest version, I was planning on using Dispensa pullout pantries ($$$) almost 80 inches tall, three, to get enough storage in that 30"x90" of space we have for pantry storage in our kitchen. That's what we had in our last home, and they were awesome.

However, to go that route I have to get pretty far off the IKEA path, so this "IKEA friendly" plan reverts back to more standard 18" drawer pullouts.

Anyway, I digress: we use the pantry probably twenty times more than we use the oven in our house, and in our house today the pantry is in that corner and crappy and hard to use, and I felt like being able to see into the drawers (or pullout baskets, if we change our minds again) from either side was a huge win. So that's why the ovens are relegated to the corner, because they misbehaved. :-)

You make several great points, Art Stone:

Not ovens should block doors access when is opened, is not safe and is inconvenience.

Yes, it sucks, but our garage is not a high traffic door, and I would hazard a guess that my wall oven is open roughly 30 minutes a year, so in this case I think we'll have to take a calculated risk.

(Please don't tell anyone about my 100k BTU propane wok burner on the deck; now that thing is dangerous. More dangerous than the Big Green Egg right next to it when it's at 900F and ready to torch my arm hairs when I open it!)

I guess my point is, on a risk-adjusted basis I think we have bigger things to worry about it in our household. Ha ha!

You will run out of room on you over head cabinets very quick your cabinets are small and you only have four of them on your counter top next to the wall see if you can get taller cabinets

Glad you brought this up. We only very recently saw a kitchen with these short wall cabs and decided to switch our plan. However, we have measured our wall cabs in our current kitchen and we know how much of them we use (answer: very little). We have only a few simple plates and bowls and glasses... simple enough that we can put them on a single open shelf, if we want to. But we did want two 21x30" uppers for holding the messy stuff that doesn't look good, and that's what we had before. The new design has the same upper storage, which I estimate is about a third more than we use today. So I think we will be okay.

The island with the boots for your kids is fine. but remenber accidents hapen and a big sink spraying water in front of your kids home work to be turned in tomorrow can be a disaster but for a Sunday morning breakfast those booths are so confortable cooking and talking while your family eats is priceless

What about the water spraying all over my soldering project for my drone? Or my camera set up to shoot oil bubbles? Why's it gotta be about the kids and their pointless homework, eh?

Just kidding. :-) I see your point, and I also agree that it's a trade. Maybe the kiddos will learn to move out quickly when the cook--err, chef... comes into the kitchen and starts cranking up the fire, water, and ice.

You're pretty good at reading my mind, or at least anticipating in half a
day all the variants that took me three months to come up with. :-)

You've done the difficult part--we're trying to help you find the most functional kitchen plan, but each of us has our own MO. It's obvious you've thought a lot about the way you cook. Having the oven against a wall, with no elbow room on one side, would not be my choice, but, when you need elbow room to insert or remove a 25# turkey, you can open the garage door. Of course, you might never roast a 25# turkey, or any turkey at all. :)

If you were using custom cabinets, you could have a pull-out board in the pantry, for landing space next to the oven. At the least, you could switch the pantries and fridge, and make the pantries an upper and lower, for landing space for both appliances, as in my third option. Does Ikea offer 15" or 18" deep uppers?

Ikea uppers are 15" deep. They don't have anything 12" or 18" deep.

Thank you, fabulatrice. In this case 15" is better than 12".