Berrytea, From what I understand it is a bourbon with noisette ancestry. Since HP is kind of a catch-all category of sorts, it seems a lot of roses kind of get lumped into that group as well as another. This seems to be especially true of roses classed as "hybrid bourbons," not so much of the plain "bourbons." I am a huge fan of bourbons and hybrid bourbons, so maybe I pay more attention to those groups, but I know this is true of damasks and portlands as well. When I think of HPs, I think of big blooms and relatively less plant vigor - none of which describes CdB. CdB's remontancy is MUCH better than most bourbons or HPs, and more on the order of a floribunda. Does any of this make sense? Recognizing them by sight is an imperfect thing. I feel like I kind of have a grip on what bourbons look like in a very general way, but explaining it would be full of qualifications since I am not schooled in this. My affinity for bourbons probably comes more from the fact that they do better for me than any other class. But, there is a lot of diversity there. In general, it seem to me the foliage of bourbons is distinct from that of other classes in that it's not gallica-like, not hybrid musk-like, not tea-like, etc. But I couldn't tell the foliage of certain HPs as being non-bourbon, like Souv. du Dr. Jamain, for example. Or certain Austins, like Gertrude Jekyll. In fact, everything about Gertrude Jekyll, (other than its vicious thorns), screams bourbon to me. I do know that OGRs with noisette ancestry tend to be lighter and looser in bloom form. That is true of CdB under the strongest heat of summer. On the other hand, it really resembles the gallica Duchesse de Montebello under opposite conditions. The fact that it blooms at all in 90 degree plus heat (and, boy does it ever) is probably due to its noisette heritage, because no other bourbon I know does that. On the other hand, mine had essentially no dieback during our unusually cold (for zone 6) winter. Did I mention I love this rose? I know nothing about its ploidy, but wish you good luck in all your rose pursuits. - robinia

I've grown it in my coastal southern California garden - it's magnificent here, one of the Tea roses that opens in our often misty weather. The flowers are massive and beautifully colored, a sophisticated blend of cream and dark pink touched with burgundy tones depending on the weather. The bush is very angular and once it matures it becomes rather awkward - it needs support. I grew it for 7-8 years, it was an incredibly productive bloomer. I can't remember what happened to it, but I think it became unhappy after I attempted to shape it better - it really resented pruning and eventually declined. I had the same problem with an extraordinarily vigorous climbing Madame Cochet which had to be pruned so people could walk safely. It too went into a terrible funk after a couple years attempts to "control" it, and it never recovered. I would grow both again if I could find bigger spots! Both of these roses have extraordinary full flowers - wonderful!

I got one years ago from Antique Rose Emporium, under the name La Biche (since it was a found rose and has now been identified by some rosarians as Sombreuil). It arrived big and healthy like everything I've ever received from ARE. Unfortunately it hated conditions here and was an awful mildew magnet. Rarely bloomed. Grew backwards and died within a couple years. It seemed to hate hot, DRY conditions and craved copious amounts of water. Much more than my other roses, which doesn't fit in with my gardening style of featuring water misers in the garden. But if you have more humid conditions and either get lots of rain or don't mind heavily irrigating, then it may do just fine. Interestingly I have a rose that is known to be an offspring of the original tea rose, Sombreuil (aka Mademoiselle de Sombreuil), called Madame Georges Bruant. She's a rugosa. I bought her as an experiment because of my prior experience with La Biche. I was curious to see how this rose would behave, seeing as how the identity of the tea parent is on firm ground. As an aside rugosas do splendidly in my garden and make good companion plants for drought tolerant California natives. My MGB came from Pickering last year. Well, she behaves just like her parent--a mildew magnet AND very thirsty--both traits untypical for rugosas here. I bought 2 other rugosas from Pickering last year as well, Wild Edric and Polareis. Both of them have lovely, clean foliage, with Wild Edric's being some of the most beautiful foliage on any rose I have. He is also very drought and heat tolerant too. Madame Georges Bruant on the other hand requires lots of extra water in the heat or she wilts very easily (and her flowers fry in the sun). This is a problem as I have CA natives surrounding her and they can't take the floods MGB craves. She is soon to meet Mr. Shovel. Wild Edric however is thriving next to low water CA natives Bothriochloa Barbinodis (a grass) and Salvia Mellifera, and a South African salvia (Salvia Namaensis). Polareis is next to drought tolerant lakeside ceanothus (C. cyaneus). I attribute the poor performance of MGB to Sombreuil. If you have conditions she and her offspring favor, you may get beauties in your garden. If not, be prepared to give lots of supportive care. Melissa

I had a friend who volunteered in the Brooklyn Botanic Garden -- not a rose lover particularly -- and she couldn't get over the fantastic fragrance of Coquette des Blanches which she smelled while she and a few others were moving it from one part of the garden to another. (One of the photo contributors on Helpmefind suggests that this rose resents pruning.) Martha Stewart likes Boule de Neige, though. It appears to have more purely white, tea-like, scrolled flowers and larger, darker foliage -- if one can judge from the pictures. Both are beautiful.