Octagon floor tile + grout + shower walls = epic cleaning failure?!?

8 years ago

last modified: 8 years ago

Will this be impossible to keep clean on a shower wall with white grout, because you have to scrub each grout line individually? Or, will the sweeping motion of cleaning the wall and tiles be enough? What if I seal the grout yearly with fancy sealer?

(Yes, I know they aren't octagons but I thought it was the most likely search term if anyone else had the same question.)

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jellytoast

8 years ago

last modified: 8 years ago

I have similar tile with white grout, but my tile is larger and did not come on sheets like that. It is b**** to clean! No, the sweeping motion of cleaning the tiles will not be enough on its own, even on the walls. I have to use a grout brush and scrub each grout line. It is a PITA and I don't do it nearly as often as it needs it. I can imagine how much worse it would be if my tile was smaller than it is. Sealing the grout yearly is a lofty goal, but if you are anything like me, a year will pass, then two, then five and so on and so on. If you are a meticulous housekeeper, enjoy cleaning, or have someone that you pay to clean and they are thorough about it, then go for it. Otherwise, save yourself the grief.

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Comments (13)

mark_rachel
8 years ago
That seems like WAY too much grout for me, but not everyone is the same. White grout… no. just. no. We are going with 12x24 shower wall tiles. Ha! We are going with hexagons on the floor though.
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dave, a couple of things: "There is a former Kerdi seller who now carrys ProVa-Mat who whines on every forum about how they took his bread and butter, but he made one good point- Kerdi doesn't want you to use modified thinset because it isn't faced to accept it well. " Kerdi doesn't want you to use modified not because "it isn't faced to accept it", they don't recommend using modified because the latex modifiers need exposure to free air to dry. The portland cement portion of the thinset cures via a chemical reaction...no drying or exposure to air is needed. But the latex modifiers found in modified thinset need exposure to free air to dry. When thinset is sandwiched between a sheet of Kerdi and a porcelain tile, the only air exposure is through the grout lines. Small tiles that would result in a lot of closely spaced grout lines, you might be okay. Large format tiles with few grout lines and little exposure to air, not so good. If you were to just smear modified thinset on Kerdi and let it cure, you'd find it will adhere quite well. The Kerdi thread you like with no photos and the Kerdi thread you dislike with photos are essentially the same thread showing the exact same steps. You wrote: "I also found this kerdi thread that has pictures...but he doesn't go up the walls from the floor with the membrane, instead he seals thinsets at the floor/wall transition- not recommended. " The method in that thread is correct. With Kerdi, any membrane overlap or at least 2" is correct and watertight. Remember you can have a 2" seam on the floor slope itself...there is also an overlap seam where every Kerdi floor membrane seals to every Kerdi Drain. Any Kerdi seam is fine as long as it's at least 2" of overlap. Kerdi doesn't have to be "lapped for drainage" like other membranes. "I am putting my mortar bed on a concrete slab. Do I need anything between concrete/mortar to prevent the slab from sucking the moisture out of the mortar before it cures properly? " You still want a slip sheet between the concrete slab and the slope. A sheet of 6-mil poly or tar paper will work fine. I've never used ProVa-Mat. Whichever membrane you use, just follow the manufacturer's installation instructions. I understand you're using cultured marble on the walls. Are you using it on the sloped shower floor too? Or will the sloped floor be tiled? If the floor slope will be covered with CM, how are you planning on sealing the seams between the sheets of CM?
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"One shower wall is an exterior wall, another has no cabinetry on the other side, and another has very minimal cabinetry." Well then, there you go. It's not due to work that was done on the other side of the wall. ie, no one tiled a wall then had other workers beat the heck out of the other side of the wall, causing the tile to crack. Could it be settling? Sure, But if it is, it's unusual. When a house settles, cracking usually first occurs in the changes of plane (corners) because those are the weakest points in a structure. If the grout between the field tiles within a wall is cracking due to the house settling, that's significant in terms of it being a significant structural issue. Also, you have marble tiles which are not very strong. If you had significant structural issues, your tiles could crack too. But again, looking at the grout itself: pinholes in the grout, raked out grout lines, inconsistent surface texture of the grout within the grout lines. And the cracks that look more like shrinkage cracks instead of structural cracks? Those are all signs of a poor installation by the person that installed the grout. "How can you tell the grout wasn't mixed well? " Because everything you described, and everything I see in the photo, is a symptom of that. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm telling you that's my opinion based upon the evidence you have provided. And that's assuming (rut row) that he properly installed and prepared the tile backer board. If he didn't properly detail the backer board then the seams in the backer board could telegraph through as cracks in the grout. But you provide no information on that. Just the photo. But based upon the information you have provided, in my opinion it's simply a grout installation issue, and it's the fault of the installer. But again, that's simply my opinion. Good luck with your remediation.
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LE
8 years ago
Did you consider epoxy grout? We used in our last shower and it seems to me it cleans up pretty much like the tile. I don't have to use a toothbrush or anything, just more of a spray and wipe process.
mark_rachel
8 years ago
White epoxy grout is known to yellow. I love epoxy grout though. Maybe a light gray?
zellycat2
Original Author
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
This is all great info, thanks!! I'm a terrible housekeeper so gray epoxy grout sounds promising (bummer about the white yellowing - I hadn't heard that, yet).

I guess researching grout is in my future. Hrm. I've definitely read posts where people swear their white grout looks like the day they put it in because of their epoxy/sealer/whatever.

For now, I have to decide on tile (I'll research grout later). Would I be safe to use this tile if I was willing to do a dark gray grout, if I can't discover the secrets of perfect grout sealing? Or does dark gray grout also get funky?
vpierce
8 years ago
Those will be a pain to clean and gray grout still gets mildewy--you just don't see it as quickly....
zellycat2
Original Author
8 years ago
Hmn. Ok, I'm a terrible enough housekeeper I wouldn't actually care if the mildew was there as long as I couldn't see it (I'm not eating off the walls) but sounds like you do see it on the gray grout, just takes longer. Guess I'll stick with subway tiles and move on to researching my best chance at keeping grout clean from the get go. Thanks!
LE
8 years ago
Maybe it depends on where you live and how humid it is inside and how good the ventilation is in your bathroom. I am in the Pacific NW which is not exactly the desert, and I have never in 30 years had mildew on any surface in the bathroom. I'm not Susie Homemaker either, and I wait to see stuff rather than do "pre-emptive" cleaning, if you know what I mean. I have seen the pink stuff (bacteria, not mold) that grows on grout and behind caulk before, though! On the epoxy grout, it shows up only down near the bottom row of tiles and it comes right off without serious scrubbing. We always use liquid soap and spritz with an after shower spray once in a while.

I agree a yellowing of white grout with those tiles would not be good, but I bet you could get away with a gray.
zellycat2
Original Author
8 years ago
Thanks for all the help! I know how useful the forums can be, so for anyone following this thread, I started the grout/sealer research here ...

[https://www.houzz.com/discussions/is-your-white-grout-still-white-what-grout-what-sealer-help-us-all-dsvw-vd~3746405[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/is-your-white-grout-still-white-what-grout-what-sealer-help-us-all-dsvw-vd~3746405)
mark_rachel
8 years ago
Maybe consider a larger field tile for the shower walls & use this for the floor & for the back of a niche. It would make a great accent tile.
PRO
Cabot & Rowe
8 years ago
Instead of epoxy grout which starts out slightly yellow, what about Flexcolor CQ in Avalanche, which is the whitest of the white grouts, never yellows, and never needs sealing ? The picture below is the mixing of the liquid parts of epoxy grout
zellycat2
Original Author
8 years ago
Great ideas, I'll keep them in mind!
mrspete
8 years ago
While I like that pattern, I think it's a bit much as shown. I think it'd look better AND would reduce grout lines if you do one or more of the following:

- Use a larger tile

- Place the accent tile every four tiles instead of every two.

- Use a large size tile for the majority of the shower wall, and place this pattern in a small "picture frame" accent

Octagon floor tile + grout + shower walls = epic cleaning failure?!?

jellytoast

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Octagon floor tile + grout + shower walls = epic cleaning failure?!?

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