I don't know about the homemade, but what they sell at the store called "kefir cheese", especially the full fat variety, is softer (wetter) than block cream cheese, but similar to a wet ricotta, so it would work, especially it's stiffer the way you make it or if you drain it. Flavor is another story. Ricotta is naturally sweet. Cream cheese is sweetish and slightly acidic. Kefir cheese and its brethren are somewhat sour. Not as sour as yoghurt, but sourish along with the dairy sweetness.

Perhaps make a test first? Or add a little sweet (carrots maybe?) and work your way back?

Or talk to the kids about sweet vs. savory and about how you want to boost the savoriness of the calzone. If you tell them it's going to be sour and it's actually pretty sweet, they might approve.

I add a little milk to the CC to make it more spreadable anyway, so I think the kefir would be a plus. Some steamed, pureed carrots added to the tomato sauce would also be a plus--they would add sweetness, and make the sauce a little stiffer, as well as adding vitamins. I add basil to everything tomato, and I could add it to kefir cheese, too. Thank you, plllog. :)

grainlady, thank you for the very useful info--I have one of those small plastic coffee filter baskets, but I'd never thought to use it for separating the kefir grains. I keep a pint jar of grains + milk, separate the grains out when the milk thickens, and let the curds and whey separate in the holding jars in the fridge, after keeping them on the counter for a day.

I'll have to try the lemon/limeade, if I can muster enough courage. I've tried the kefir and the solids--I must say I don't care for either, but I'd like to find a way to use them to benefit from the cultures. Nor do I care for yogurt or buttermilk--if ever I have occasion to be hypnotized, I'm going to ask the hypnotist to tell me that yogurt, kefir, and celery are my three favorite foods. ;)

Sorry, my bad, I must not have made myself very clear.... You don't use the coffee filter for the grains, you remove the grains from the kefir like you regularly would after it thickens (I use a slotted plastic spoon for that), but you allow the thickened curd to ferment for another 12-24 hours without grains in it. THEN you place the curd and any whey that has separated (without grains) in the coffee filter basket to drain the whey from the curd. The longer the whey drains from the curd, the firmer the curd gets. The coffee filter basket (or a yogurt cheese strainer - which come in an assortment of sizes) are nothing more than a sieve with a very fine-mesh screen. It must have a fine mesh or the kefir curd will drip through any large holes - not just the liquid whey. Here is a link that might be helpful: http://thehealthyeatingsite.com/making-kefir-cheese/

FYI- When you cook the kefir or kefir cheese, the heat will destroy all the good bacteria and you won't have the health benefits. If you make kefir cheese, I would suggest you use it to make a spread or dip instead of cooking with it.

I eat drained dairy kefir (the thickness of yogurt or Greek yogurt) with a "shot" of flavored stevia in it (coconut-flavored stevia or lemon twist are my favorites, but I have other flavors I use - root beer, cola, pomegranate/blueberry, hazelnut, vanilla crème, English toffee) and top it with homemade granola. Another favorite kefir is coconut milk kefir - place the contents of a can of coconut in a jar and add 4-5 milk kefir grains and add the lid. Ferment it until it's nice and thick (12-24 hours - depending on the ambient temperature and the strength and size of the kefir grains) - remove the grains (and place them back in regular milk) and use the coconut milk kefir like you would yogurt. I think it makes a great dessert or ice cream base.

Since you're not a fan of fermented dairy foods, you may want to ditch the milk kefir and switch to water kefir. Be sure to watch the videos and read the information at Cultures for Health I linked above. Water kefir is a slightly effervescent sweet drink made with water, sugar, and water kefir grains -- but much of the sugar is consumed during the fermentation. During the second fermentation you flavor the water kefir. I usually use whole fruit (fresh or frozen fruit), but you can also add a 1/4 c. of your favorite fruit juice to 1 quart of water kefir. You need to purchase water kefir grains to make it because it won't work with milk kefir grains, and you can get water kefir grains from Cultures for Health. I usually mix flavored water kefir 50/50 with cold water to drink it, but that's a personal preference. I also use flavored water kefir + dairy kefir for our morning smoothie, which is a delivery system for other things we toss in (hi-maize resistant starch, flax/chia meal, isolate whey protein powder, and a powdered supplement we take). We drink this with breakfast, not as a substitute for breakfast.

To make root beer water kefir:

To 1 quart of "finished" water kefir (meaning it has gone through the first ferment) add: 1 teaspoon root beer extract combined with 1 tablespoon of sugar dissolved in 1/4 c. warm water. Add to the jar and place the lid and ring on the jar and seal for the second ferment. [You can find root beer extract in the spice isle.]

-Grainlady

Thank you for the clarification. I went looking for my plastic filter basket, and couldn't find it anyway--either I've given it to one of the kids, or it's packed away.

Whether or not the cooked/baked kefir is still beneficial was one of my main concerns, so thank you for answering that question. I'll try it in dip or cream cheese spread--I don't think I could use it any other way. I've been interested in water kefir, and I'd like to start another Kombucha scoby. I kept one years ago, but those things take over--I started composting the extras. I never drank the tea, but watching it grow was fun, and my late husband drank it mixed with fruit juice. I want to try the kefir lemonade before I give up on the dairy kefir.

My kids and I have always liked pickles and brined, pickled cauliflower and cabbage, but I'd like to try some fermented vegetables, too. Thanks again for all the helpful advice.

When I first started culturing my own kefir (about three years ago), I was interested in trying lots of the different things that could be done with it. I made pudding with kefir and chia seeds, drained it for kefir cheese, etc. I wasn't interested in using it in any cooked application because I knew that would destroy the probiotic benefits, however, in a pinch I have used it in place of buttermilk or sour cream in something baked because I had none in the fridge. Absolutely nobody else in my family likes it, but that doesn't deter me. All my experiments, save one, have gone by the wayside. I use it to make our favorite "buttermilk" dressing and the family can't tell the difference, even though they are aware of it.

Now, I just drink it. Every weekday. 12 ounces of kefir in my to go cup for my commute to work. Sometimes plain, sometimes sweetened with a bit of honey or aloe sweetener.

mamagoose -

The lemonade (or limeade) is made with the remaining WHEY, not the kefir (the liquid portion drained from the curd - people often just toss it after making kefir cheese).

How to: http://helloglow.co/lacto-fermented-lemonade/

donna, I wish liked the taste! I mixed a little fresh kefir with the bottled fruity kind my daughter buys, but my grandson tasted it and wouldn't drink it, either.

grainlady, I used the whey in the last batch of bread I baked, and saved the solids, but I'm going to try the lemonade with the next batch that separates. Thank you for the link. It says that the lemonade is slightly reminiscent of buttermilk, another cultured dairy product that I don't like, but I'm going to try to keep an open mind. My father's family all love buttermilk--I wish I'd inherited that gene.

I found, last evening, that kefir solids (I didn't bother to drain--just spooned out the mass as gently as possible), mixed with cream cheese makes a good spread. I used m/l 1 part kefir solids to 2 parts softened cream cheese, and added grated parmesan, granulated garlic, dried onions, dried basil, and oregano.

Most of the cream cheese/kefir mixture was used in the calzones, but I saved some to try on bread--no one could tell the kefir was in there! I'll try increasing the amount of kefir each time. Even though baking destroys the live cultures, the calzones were very good! I used plllog's suggestion of adding mashed carrots to the tomato sauce when it was almost reduced, which made it thicker.

I had extra pizza dough, so I made a thin crust round, spread some of the cream cheese mixture on it, then sprinkled some shredded cheddar cheese on top, and baked as usual. We enjoyed that, too, and it was dry enough that it would make a good finger-food appetizer if cut in very thin wedges, with tomato sauce for dipping on the side.

Thanks!

grainlady and plllog, I'm posting to let you know that I used the kefir cheese at a family dinner yesterday, and it was a hit! I have a faux boursin recipe that my family loves, so I added 1/4th kefir cheese, with enough whey to make it smooth, then piped the softened mixture into tiny sweet pepper halves, for a crudité platter. I forgot to take a picture, but they made a nice presentation with sliced cucumbers, grape tomatoes, thinly sliced celery and carrot sticks, and ripe olives. Next time, I might try stuffing jumbo ripe olives, and I think I'll try piping a line of the cheese onto baked puff-pastry 'fingers', just before serving.

My younger DD, who is moderately lactose intolerant, liked it so much, I sent some of the left-over cheese mixture home with her. :)

As I type I have a very thin film of a Kombucha growing in tea, and a jar of kefir whey lemonade fermenting.

What did you add? Herbs?...i have two pints and just drained another. I think i'll try and make a goat cheese style spread. Just read through the links and found some others. Garlic, rosemary basil...i suppose any combination. I had just not thought of making a spread. I do have the cloth filter bags.

Fortunately we like kefir plain. Or a 1/2 cup with a 1/2 cup granola on top. The last batch of granola i made has more fruit and nuts. I do need to find more uses like maybe an avocado dressing.

My last few batches of 'butca' have been fantastic so i hope yours goes well. I've been making the second fermentation with golden beet slices and lots of ginger. It gets slightly fizzy and tastes like ginger ale.

Not sure about the lemonade with all that sugar but i suppose it gets 'eaten' in the fermentation process. I'll give it a go.

This one is ready. I've been using the same method and exact same tea this past year after losing a batch. 4 green and 4 black teas, organic.

Hi, sleevendog, I added pulverized dried onions, garlic granules, dried basil, ground white pepper corns, a shake of Tabasco, and a shot of Worcestershire sauce. I've been eating the left over spread with tortilla chips.

I'm trying to keep an open mind about the lemonade and tea. ;)

The lemonade was ready today, and I'm happy to say that I like it. I don't usually care for plain water, so I always dilute fruit juice as a way to increase my water intake. I diluted the lemonade, too--I'd left quite a bit of the pulp from the lemon in it, which helped, I think, and since I had a lot of whey, I actually added more than the recipe listed. I like it so much, I started another jar, which should be ready in a couple of days. And my kitchen smells nice because I put the lemon peel in the sink--every time I run hot water over it, the peel releases some fragrance. :)

I'm hoping that I can fool my taste buds into eventually liking the first fermentation of the kefir. :P

I like the 'cheese'. We have plans for taking this further when we have time and make feta and a goat style...we have the small baskets for that just need the time. And hope to use goat milk. We have SandorKatz books that covers the process.

Just also need to get this process down to an easy method since we just started last Fall....at least the grains seem happy.

I will spice up the next batch. Thanks.

Ooooo....Boursin. I'll have to try that. And the lemonade. I've subbed kefir cheese for cream cheese a few times. Most of ours goes into breakfast smoothies. And kefir cornbread.

We had a program on kombucha at my library and I learned about second ferments, I've grown it for years but I'd never done second ferment. I just cracked a bottle of lemon-ginger, made with Meyer lemons from my sis's tree, grated ginger and some crystallized ginger that a friend brings me from Australia. Ohmy it's good.

Updating my kefir experimentation results: I made a kefir cheese ball, by hanging the curds is a bag until solid, then adding dried onion flakes, red pepper flakes, granulated garlic, basil flakes, salt, pepper, and a little sugar to try to balance the sourness of the cheese. I still didn't care for it without the butter and cream cheese, but my son loved it with crackers, so I sent it home with him. If I have extra cheese, I'll save it for his visits.

I made sugar cookies today, using a drop cooky recipe that I've been using for many years, but I substituted 1/2 cup kefir cheese for 1/4 cup of the butter, and left out 1 Tbs of the milk. Since the cheese was a little 'curdled' and very sour, I added a couple of Tbs. of corn syrup and substituted 1/4 tsp of baking soda for 1/4 tsp. of the baking powder, because of the lactic acid. Oh my, are they good!

Glad you brought this back up! I have a cheese method i've had some success with...need to take a pic.

It is getting ahead of me but we used it in all our breads last weekend and i've got another going into a straining system i find rather easy. I'v been adding herbs right away rather than later...

I've had some milk issues with the organic and that obviously is the ultra-paturized...then found a local milk i like that works better....

Does Grainlady use dehydrated/powdered milk?

sleevendog -

I use Country Cream non-fat dry milk powder to make kefir (http://www.amazon.com/Country-Cream-Instant-Nonfat-Powdered/dp/B0015TAPY6/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1459852782&sr=8-1&keywords=country+cream+milk).

If I happen to have some 1/2 and 1/2 or cream on hand, I'll add a little to add some fat, which makes the grains "happy" - but I've made LOTS of kefir with reconstituted powdered milk. I also use double-strength powdered milk (twice as much powder as is called for) in order to get a nice thick curd. It's a similar method I used when making yogurt with powdered milk.

-Grainlady

My grains are happy with some fat. I think i was impatient or just with different milk suppliers and trying various milks, i could not get consistent results. I need to settle on one while i get used to this. We don't use milk at all so buying it is a struggle keeping it in the house or on a shopping list. Nice to have a source for a powder so thanks for that.

Good recipes here...80 ways to use kefir...kefir recipes

Just made a really good salad dressing.

Oh, making Kvass today. Using the whey from a kefir cheese i started yesterday. Again something new to me. Started a crock of kraut and had lots of chopping going on....

And a good video link. Good basic stuff and i agree with most of it on a very basic level...just some of my methods are a bit different....fermenting