Yikes, I don't envy you the job of getting the root/soil ball out of a container shaped like that.

I suspect that the lack of attention to proper repotting is contributing to the problem. Those poor roots! Now is not the time of year to tackle that job, but it will be necessary in the spring. Plants need to have their roots pruned and potting medium changed every year or two.

Wholesale shedding of large branches is usually associated with death or severe limitations of the roots that primarily serve those branches. The branches of some trees are so dependent on a single root that you can actually remove ALL other branches and ALL other roots, and the closely linked root and branch will remain a living organism. Thuja occidentalis (eastern white cedar) is like that and nature abounds with living examples.

I'm slightly off track, but not far. It's likely that suppressed root function of important roots caused the larger branches to die. One or more of poor soil, root congestion, soil compaction, over-watering, or various combinations of offenders on the short list are the most likely causes of the lost branches and pouty plant.

As Dori said, now isn't an appropriate time to be doing heavy work on trees because their energy levels in Feb, Mar, Apr, are at their nethermost during those months. What would serve the plant best includes making sure the cultural conditions you offer now aren't asking the plant to live at the limits of what it's programmed to tolerate, which means keeping it warm and in bright light, not over-watering, and making sure your nutritional supplementation program is reasonable from the plant's POV, while you predetermine a plan that gets the tree repotted into a soil you can at least water correctly w/o worry the roots will suffer in health and/or function due to prolonged soggy conditions. Repotting is much more extensive than potting up, as it includes removing all or most of the soil and correcting (by removing) those roots that are obvious troublemakers. It's very important to make sure you stay any hand on the watering can that's too exuberant.

If you have interest in chasing these thoughts a bit, I'll offer some things you can read that go into more details about WHY the things I said are in the plants best interest and about HOW to proceed. Then, if you're up for it, formulating and putting the plan in motion would be easy. Forgot to mention - as a matter of course, you should probably plan on flushing the soil thoroughly the next time it needs water.

Al

Hi, thanks for the comments. What is my best plan of action to save it at this time?

The soil is light and fluffy, does not feel congested.

Should I gently lift the root ball and remove a bit of soil and add some new soil to the bottom and top?

Should I fertilize it at this time?

Remove the yellow branches (will be sad as it's now 50% of the plant!)?

When you say flush the soil... do you mean saturate it completely? Does this not over water it?

I do not know a lot about plants. Any help determining my best plan of action to keep it alive will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again!

Is your plant actually IN the pot shown, or does that pot have a smaller pot inside it?

Should I gently lift the root ball and remove a bit of soil and add some new soil to the bottom and top? No, not at this time. Your plant will respond better if you wait until later in the year when the plant is at the peak of its food production (plants make their own food [sugar] during photosynthesis). Mid to late Jun would be best for you and the Aralia.

Should I fertilize it at this time? No. It's possible that your issues is related (at least in part) to a high level of salts in the soil. More on that in a sec.

Remove the yellow branches (will be sad as it's now 50% of the plant!)? Let's leave those on the plant for now. You can remove them any time - putting them back on is more difficult. ;-) Often, branches that shed foliage will back-bud and push new growth after the initial impetus is no longer a factor. We'll hope.

When you say flush the soil... do you mean saturate it completely? Does this not over water it? I mean go well beyond the saturation point so you're dissolving and eliminating any accumulation of salts from the soil.

.... my best plan of action to keep it alive .... If I was forced to guess, and considering the fact that Aralia loathes wet feet, my guess is that over-watering is the root issue ..... and that IS a double entendre. I see where you have two choices. You can allow the plant to dry down to a nearly completely dry state between waterings and flush the soil thoroughly the next time it needs water, then we can work from that point; or, you can lift the plant from the pot, inspect the roots for rot, and take the appropriate action, which would be to remove enough soil to ensure you're pruning roots back to viable tissue and repotting into a (likely) smaller pot and appropriate soil. The longer term goal would include planning a full repot in June '16 or '17, depending on how well the plant bounces back.

Your plant might come out of the pot easily if there are severe root problems; or, if the loss of foliage/branches isn't primarily related to poor root health, you might have to be pretty aggressive in getting it out of the pot.

Al

Hi Al, thanks for the advice. The plant is planted direct in that pot (no smaller pot inside). I've had it in there for 3-4 years or so and it has grown quite a bit in that time.

I've been letting it dry the last two days. I just started feeling around in the soil with my hands and it's a bit clumpy toward the bottom, and dry. I gently tried to lift the root ball out and it came out really easily. Based on your suggestions I would say it has root issues?

Now that I've loosened up the root ball... should I remove the bottom soil, add new soil and replant it in there?

How do I tend to these roots? The root ball seems small, maybe the size of a 12" x 12" wide and only 3-4" deep.

Appreciate the help...

Josh

Hi, Josh - rec'd your message. If you're going forward on the assessment the roots are badly rotted and you need to do an emergency repot to save the plant, you should probably make sure you have your ducks in a row before you proceed. That means having the soil ready to go, a couple of pots to choose from - depending on size of the root mass when you're done with the work - and the tools you'll need. You also need to keep roots moist from now until the work is completed. The very important fine roots can be killed by dessication within minutes of exposure to dry air.

Let me say first, if the root system isn't obviously rotted, I'd just prune it back to the edge of the soil mass & stick it in a pot that fits the roots pretty snugly and fill in with soil. Let me know if you have more questions once you decide your course.

Al

Hi Al,

So I read your message late last night and in a panic, I ended up replanting the tree in the same pot unfortunately. I didn't have another smaller pot handy at home and considering I already uprooted the plant earlier in the day, I felt necessary to plant it well again. I tried to replant it in the same soil earlier yesterday after I pulled it up, but I could not do a great job. So last night I quickly pulled up the tree, dumped the old soil, filled the pot with new soil, massaged the roots lightly with my hands to break up some of the soil and replanted.

Not sure if that was the best plan of action but the procedure is now complete. I also did not know what to do with the roots before replanting them so I did what I mentioned above. I hope this wasn't a bad move!

Can you provide some feedback and direction going forward?

Any special considerations now that I have completed this that will help?

Thanks again

Josh

Take pains to keep the soil a little damp, but never wet. That includes never wet deep in the pot. Check soil with a 1/4 or 5/16" wooden dowel sharpened in a pencil sharpener (best) or a bamboo skewer stuck deep into the pot. Don't water until the 'tell' comes out almost but not quite completely dry. If you have a lot of soil uncolonized by roots under the main root mass, you need to consider the moisture level where the roots actually are. If you find the upper part of the soil seems dry and the bottom part of the soil is still wet, put about as much water in a spritzer or contact lens solution squeeze bottle (or equal) and slowly apply that water to moisten the top part of the soil but not add to the saturation level of the lower part. The plant does NOT like wet feet. It would have been better if you would have had at least a 75/25 mixture of peat and potting soil to plant in on short notice, but you can make it work with careful moisture level monitoring.

Good luck.

Al

Hi,

Resurrecting this thread to provide an update on the plant after the emergency repotting 6 weeks ago. Again, thanks for the help above. Happy to report the plant is alive and growing again!

Prior to the repotting, the plant was yellowing quickly and we lost around 50% of the branches. Here is pic post repotting, half the plant lost:

After we repotted it, we saw some new growth a week later!

Fast forward 6 weeks later and 4 new branches have sparked. That first one in the pic above has matured and now we have 3 more growing at the same time out of each main branch.

It's alive!

There is still a lot of soul underneath the root ball, and lots of space from the plant to the pot edge. I had no idea the root ball would be so small on this plant. Unfortunately, when we did the emergency repotting we did not have another small pot accessible (should of been prepared before I pulled up the plant).

Now going forward, do you think I should re-pot this again in a smaller pot? Or just leave it for now as it seems to be doing ok?

Does that pot have drain holes?

Yep pot has a drain hole.

For some reason my pics didn't post above, working on that.

Let the fact that aralia thrives in a fast-draining, well-aerated soil, and doesn't tolerate wet feet well (note the size of your plant's root mass when you repotted as validation of that point) guide your decision. It's not an easy task to prevent over-watering when a plant is over-potted. You really need to be on top of the issue while trying to avoid the salt build-up and badly skewed nutrient ratios that accompany the practice of watering in small sips.

Al

nY - While technically it's a hijack, it's still pretty much on topic, and the thread is pretty old, so it's not a serious infraction - a misdemeanor. I'm guilty of a much more serious impingement, much closer to a felony, when I went totally off topic on one of Tiffany's threads about F lyrate becoming the new peace lily and started talking about why time seems to pass faster as we age. I had to throw myself at her feet and beg a pardon, which it seems she was good enough to grant. Whew!

Now, to business. Can you point to the thread where I said a 75/25 mix of peat/potting soil makes a passable soil? If I actually said that, I apologize sincerely. If you followed that advice and lost a plant, I'd be happy to buy you a new plant, because the 75/25 peat/potting soil recommendation would be a misstatement on my part, and I'd be happy to pay a penalty for the inadvertence. Again, I'm very sincere and what I offered isn't meant to be a challenge to anything you said - it's a genuine offer.

We do have to consider the potentiality that you might have misunderstood. I can see myself recommending a 75/25 mix of perlite and potting soil as a last resort type of arrangement, but not the peat/potting soil, other by bungleblunder. I've actually spent at least 12 years at GW then Houzz, offering a profusion of posts that don't speak well of soils comprised of large fractions or entirely of fine particles; and, a (peat-based) potting soil/peat mix of any proportion could be the poster child for that type of soil.

Now, about your tree ..... Aralia requires good moisture control to even maintain viability, so the chances of continued decline probably are more certain that the probability of losing the plant if you repot into a soil that makes it easier to hold rein on moisture levels. However, you have to recognize that root rot, if advanced, will likely take the plant.

Let us know what you find, what you do with your plant, and the end result, as well as whether I'm indebted for the inaccuracy.

Al

Hi Al,

Thanks for your forgiveness on my hijacking this thread. I hope everyone else is as forgiving. And thanks for the offer to replace my tree. I'm hoping to help it live more than anything. It's my first houseplant ever and it's my first love. So I want to really fix my mistakes.

It was this very threads that I saw the "75/25 peat and soil" if you scroll up to Feb. 14.

I am on the hunt right now for the pine/fir find bark. It's been very challenging as most places don't carry or are sold out. If I'm out of luck, would it be alright to use the clay pebbles that is normally for hydroponic? I got a bag of it from ikea.

Here's the root the last time repotted it just before putting it into the 75peat mix. and the whole plant after the potting.

thanks again for your advice.

You're right, I did say that on Feb 14th. I meant to say The plant does NOT like wet feet. It would have been better if you would
have had at least a 75/25 mixture of "perlite"/potting soil to plant in
on short notice, ...... (That would be 3 parts of perlite to 1 part potting soil) , but I slipped up. I'm very sorry. I try to proofread most of what I write to minimize the potential for mistakes, but either I didn't or I skipped right over it because I was mainly looking for grammar issues. ;-( Most of the time someone catches those glaring errors and asks for a clarification, but this one slipped through.

The clay pebbles won't work well in a solid medium because of the size disparity between the spheres and other soil components. If you send me your address, I'll send you a large USPS Priority Mail box filled with pine bark, 5:1:1, or gritty mix - your choice - on me.

That's a VERY small root mass for the size of the plant, and illustrates the plant hasn't been happy for some time. Undoubtedly, its limited size is related to soil/moisture issues.

Al

Very kind words, n Y - thank you very much. I guess I didn't realize you were Canadian. Fingers crossed here, too. Best luck! Let me know if you think there might be anything else I can help you with. I'll try harder to be sure not to set you on a wayward course.

Al

I've had plants bounce back from worse, so there's always hope. For nY and anyone following this thread - if you're a regular repotter of your plants, you might occasionally run up against root rot issue similar to nY's images. If/when you do, it's a good practice to dust the roots with finely powdered sulfur, sulfur being a strong fungicide, and even press it into any hollows that contain rotting tissue. You don't want it thickly caked in the areas of rot, but an amount that's a little more than a dusting works well. Because I have it on hand, I would treat the roots with a topical fungicide or sulfur powder, then follow up with a topical application of a systemic fungicide to the top of the tree. I'd probably do the follow-up treatment 3 times at 2 wk intervals.

As I look at your plant's roots, nY, I think there's high probability the basal sprout will make it, but an opposite probability the main plant won't; or, the side of the main trunk that is rootless might die back. Hopefully, new roots will sprout from the cambium where it was trimmed back to remove rot. It will be very important to keep that area moist, so I would cut a piece of plastic, like LDPE (Visqueen) so it fits snugly around the trunk, and allow it to rest on the soil. This will keep the top of the soil from drying out and limiting the plant's ability to produce roots from the meristematic (stem) tissues in the cambium.

Some plants have VERY direct connections between individual roots and shoots. IOW, a particular root serves a particular shoot to the point of exclusivity, and if one dies so does the other. Other plants don't have such a strong connection between individual roots/shoots, and some can even reroute water/nutrient/sap flow as a survival mechanism. Never having worked with aralia to any significant degree, I can't say where aralia falls in relation to what I just mentioned, but the ideal case would be that the plant is able to do some rerouting to prevent the rootless side of the main trunk from losing viability. Keep us posted, please. I, and I'm sure a few others, would be interested in whether or not you save it. If effort counts for anything in Mother Nature's court, you certainly deserve the win.

Al

You're welcome. It was my pleasure.

You don't want to seal the plastic up tight so CO2 and other potentially harmful gases can't escape from the soil. You just want to have a disc of light plastic you can lightly lay atop the soil so the top layer doesn't dry out too quickly and prevent roots from forming where you removed rotted cambial tissues. If you had any sphagnum moss (not talking about peat moss here),

Al

NY I hope that beautiful tree makes it! It is gorgeous.

Moisture meters actually measure electrical continuity, not moisture levels. If you clean the tip of your meter and submerge it in a cup of distilled (deionized) water (in a clean cup), it will read "DRY"; add a pinch of salt and the meter goes all the way over to "WET". Soils with lots of large air pores aren't conducive to electrical continuity, to the readings might be considered to be erratic. It's hard to go wrong if you trust your eyes, and the wooden 'tell' you've used.

...... hoping for a good outcome for you and plant!

Al

The effects on the top of the tree from the root pruning has been very disheartening. I have read a lot related to this on this forum and it's a bit comforting. Still hopeful.
I'm a bit concerned about this particular woody branch/trunk below, -it's more wrinkly than the others and feels more hollow, like the bark is detached from what's inside. It was the first to lose a branch. Is it dead? Should I saw off the branch? I'm also concerned about this pinched off branch, -didn't stake it in time so it fell and pinched. Should I cut that off?
On another note, I noticed a long time ago that each of the woody branches have been chopped off, sealed with some kind of black sealer and greener branches grew from each. I first thought it was because who ever cared for it before had a vision or for this tree or used it for propagation but I'm starting to wonder if it was suffering and that's why all the branches have black sealing paint on the cut ends.
Should I also seal any cut wounds on this tree like what's been done before?

Trees being prepared for life in a pot commonly have their wounds sealed immediately after pruning to prevent tissues from dying back to a significant distance from the actual wound site. Most frequently, I use waterproof wood glue to seal woody pruning cuts larger than drinking straw size; and I'll often seal smaller wounds if they are on a well-developed tree on which the scar would be conspicuous.

I'd say there is no point in allowing the stems you asked after to remain as a part of the plant's structure. There is no downside, and not much of an upside for that matter, if they're removed.

Al

Hi Al,
I noticed that the bark of this ming aralia was getting very loose at the base of the tree for a while now, -couple of weeks, and some fungus gnats were trying to make a home in the soil. I was curious if it was still green underneath the bark so I pulled back a bit of it which came off easily and more than I wanted. It was black and fuzzy under the bark and then a bunch of clear worm-like (>1cm) squirming out of the bare trunk. I immediately covered with pesticide powder.

Many thanks on your guidance, Al.

nY

PS: Interesting observation, during the time I noticed the loosening of the bark, there was a strong almost sweet smell that came from the plant I can smell from a meter away. Definitely different front the mild turmeric-like smell when the plant was healthy.

The worm-like animal is a fungus gnat larvae. You should be able to see a distinct black dot at one of its ends.

I'm guessing the sweet smell resulted from gasses produced during fermentation or decomposition under anaerobic conditions found in saturated soils.

Al

Wondering what became of the aralia?? Did it meet it's demise?? Was it able to be saved?? Allot of wonderful information I've read here in regards to caring for my 10 year old aralia I've been able to propagate into many aralia children to gift away.

Hi, I love all of the Ming Aralia discussion! So helpful. Has anyone had success in propogating this plant?

i responded to succulentlady. But what happened to my comment?