Do you know all those licensed tradespeople? Do you know how to make sure they have the proper insurance and bonding(if required)? Can you adapt their schedules if there are set backs, or hire another trade if one bails?

I don't know of many painters that would install an entire room of drywall. That is usually the sheet rockers duty/job.

t is possible to do what you are proposing, I just would doubt you could get it done in less than six months the way you are proposing.

The contractors(providing they are qualified and capable) could do it in less than two weeks.

You seem to have left out the preparation of design and construction documents as well as filing for a permit with you as the general contractor.

Double the lead time for cabinets and have a place to store them when they arrive.

If you have not done this before the savings are likely to be small and/or not worth the pain.

Three contractors have already told you what you want will cost. If you aren't willing to pay that up front, then you will pay it over time, and with time. Cutting out the design expense costs you money in the long run. 6-10 months later, with a 15% over run on the budget to fix the amateur scheduling and quality control mistakes, you will look back and wish that you had hired a pro to do it for you.

"We did get quotes from 3 general contractors and found their prices to be too high. We got a 4th and he said to tell him what to do and he'll do it"

The 4th guy is a GC or a day laborer?

I don't get why it would take 6 months. I am in the process of obtaining quotes from various tradespeople and so far they tell me they can do the job the next day if I we were ready. From the demo guy to the plumber and electrician, they can do the rough in within a week.

As for the design, we went to a cabinet maker where they created a design based on our measurements. They will come out to do a final measure when we order.

As for the cost, gen contractors where quoting us $20 to $25k for semi custom cabinets. The cabinet maker quoted us $12k. Both quotes are just the cabinets with no installation cost. When we told the contractors that we will supply the cabinets they suddenly became disinterested. This made us feel that they would only do the job if they had an opportunity to make a huge markup on the price.

I live in Los Angeles if that helps provide some context.

4th guy is a GC that our realtor referred to us.

Doesn't your cabinet maker have his own installers? I had custom cabinets made, and they did the installation. They also contracted out the countertop install.

I also acted as my own GC. We only needed a plumber to hook up the sink, DW, and disposal, and we have a friend who is a plumber. Our electrician was referred to us by the cabinet maker - they have worked together a lot. I have another friend who is a licensed GC - he did some drywall work for us, but I'm not sure he would do such a small job for just anyone.

We did our own demolition and painting. I also ordered/purchased everything else we needed: sink, faucet, disposal, pulls, range hood - right down to the toe kick vent cover. There were a lot of little details.

The whole schedule revolved around the cabinet completion date. I allowed plenty of time for each task, to make sure that the subs weren't getting in each others way, and to allow for delays. We started demo the end of June, cabinets installed the middle of August, flooring installed after that, counters installed early September.

Oh, and I spent a couple of months working on the precise layout with the cabinet maker. I did the design, but he did the details, like getting the clearances right.

My project went smoothly, but I suspect it helped a lot that I had either personal experience or a really reliable recommendation for each of my subs - and that I did some of the work myself.

I can't believe the tradespeople are so un-busy that they can start work immediately in every case. Here in SF you're lucky to find someone good who can start in two months. That said, our project (with a GC) was completed in about 3 months (kitchen, 2 bathrooms, miscellaneous walls, closet, painting interior, refinishing floors)

Why do you need to tear out all the drywall? That might be an unnecessary expense. Electricians and plumbers can move stuff by surgically cutting holes only where needed. Patching will be a lot less work and money than a complete tear-out. Handymac's right: hire a drywaller, not a painter to install/fix drywall.

Yes, you can GC your own remodel. Make sure you screen screen screen the subs, though. Read through a lot of back threads here about what can go wrong so that you can develop good radar about hiring good people. Quick availability CAN be a red flag (if construction is booming, why aren't they busy?). It may not be; sometimes good tradespeople are looking for smaller fill-in jobs, and you may get lucky.

Take time to design your kitchen well. The Kitchens forum is a great help for this.

"It [quick availability] may not be [a red flag]; sometimes good tradespeople are looking for smaller fill-in jobs, and you may get lucky."

I agree with this. There could be a number of reasons why a subcontractor can be available quickly, including another job being cancelled or scheduling changes/delays on other jobs. Many subcontractors who specialize in residential remodels (as opposed to tract work) aren't married to a job for months like a GC is.

I acted as my own GC, too, but have construction experience and know people in the trades. I also had patience and wasn't in a rush. We did some of the work ourselves and subbed out a lot of it. It wasn't without it's headaches, but you can have headaches with a GC in charge, too, as a lot of threads here will attest to. Nothing was insurmountable. I wanted control of my own project and wasn't willing to hand that over to someone else. Verifying licensing/bonding/liability/workers comp insurance was easy enough. I did have one subcontractor say he had insurance, but a check on the CSLB said otherwise and he couldn't provide the documents to prove it so he didn't get hired.

I don't think acting as your own GC is for everyone, but it's not impossible.

Why do you need to tear out all the drywall? That might be an
unnecessary expense. Electricians and plumbers can move stuff by
surgically cutting holes only where needed. Patching will be a lot less
work and money than a complete tear-out. Handymac's right: hire a
drywaller, not a painter to install/fix drywall.

I don't disagree (without hearing about ALL the work that's being done), but I'd rather pay $25 an hour for a drywaller than $100 an hour for an electrician or plumber to be messing around trying to fish wires through little holes or something.

And with the drywall off, I can also put in blocking for cabinets, check/add insulation, etc.

Young Skywalker; don't forget. No work gets done without a contract. None.

Can you afford to take the time off work to get the subs started on the jobs, return to the job sites when they have questions, and make sure everything is done correctly before they leave?

While watching work being done,do you recconize correct and incorrect proceedures? Doing so almost require's being able to perform each trade in question ( something few can do without years experience)

Unless you are intimately familiar with every aspect of the remodel, the job will quickly go south. The normal reactions will be A- blame the sub-contractors B- Why didn't someone tell me? Further, you'll have to make every decision up front, acquire all the materials before work starts, and store them somewhere. The main reasons to have everything on hand - tear sheets, installation instructions, proof the product is in good shape/correct color/size, and to keep the job moving.

Common problems;

1- The listed items above are in the wrong order.

2- Will you provide tear sheets / installation instructions for all the appliances, lighting, cabinets.... ?

3- Who will supervise the day to day operations to ensure the different trades dovetail with each other? Who will give access to the property? Alarm codes? Keys?

4- What happens when trades give opposing recommendations ?

5- What happens when the next trade comes in and says the previous work is not up to speed to allow the next trade to continue?

6- Change orders?

7- Who tells the electrician where the outlet for the fridge goes? For the stove?

8- Do you want the garbage disposal switch in the backsplash? As an air operated switch on the counter or face of the cabinet?

9- What sized can lights will accommodate the trims and bulbs you select? do they need to be IC or not?

10- Since the drywall is coming down, who will handle any framing issues? Insulation? Moisture barrier?

11- What percentage of the job will be paid to the electrician as rough in and what will be the final trim out?

12- Who supplies the switches, outlets, plates, light bulbs (temporary ones during construction and finish?

13- Does the trim carpenter fill the nail holes or does the painter?

14- What will be the final flooring surface? If tile, who checks the floor for deflection (if wood framed) or flatness suitability for the tile selected if SOG?

15- Permits? Inspections?

16- Does your homeowners policy cover you for injury of contractors? Will you be verifying the liability and workman's compensation insurance policies of every worker who walks through the door?

17- Who will be handling the releases of lien from the contractors and their suppliers?

18- Will you be checking the up-to-date licenses for every contractor?

19- What happens when one contractor causes a delay for the next contractor?

20- Who handles trash disposal?

21- Who handles dust control ? Flooring protection? Furniture protection ? Pets? Children? Gates left open?

22- Will the backsplash tile selection effect outlet location?

FWIW, contractors are compensated for their experience, time and effort spent selecting, transporting, financing (we have to pay for it when we order it) and storing your items. It's not uncommon to spend a few hours at a loading dock with a fist full of paperwork waiting your turn to start checking each box of tile for color, batch, broken tiles, and size before it hits the back of your truck. All the while hoping it's not raining or snowing.

Depending on complexity and size, our normal kitchen remodels take 3 weeks to 3 months. But then, we work one job at a time, 8 hours a day.

"The normal reactions will be A- blame the sub-contractors B- "

Were that not so brutaly accurate,it might give me a chuckle. But as it is,that's exactly what you can expect. Come to think of it,I recall someone recently saying their GC told them he wasn't responsible, was blaming his own sub and it was client's responsibility to take it up with the sub.

Contractors get discounts that you can't get. If you buy your supplies at retail price, it will cost more IMHO.

I'm in a renovation with a contractor who is semi-retired, so I've managed fixtures, cabinets and countertops only. He's managed all the difficult stuff--plans, permits, subs, structural, etc.

Contractors will mark up those materials, too, so don't assume you are getting them cheaper.

C&R stopped well short of the 50 bullet point list.

May the force be with you, once in orbit skywalker.

Even WITH a GC, you have to be available all the time to answer questions, maybe go to the job site. It's a lot more of that if you are the GC. Doable but time-consuming.

"Unless you are intimately familiar with every aspect of the remodel, the job will quickly go south"

I agree, to be your own GC you pretty much need to know how to do it and be willing to be around while the work is being done or trust all the subs to be in your house without you while your gone (while still being available to answer questions...) and also ensuring tasks gets done in the correct order and done correctly before the next sub starts.

A better way to GC your own project is to know how to do most of it and hire out for a few things and DIY the rest on your own time. However, if you have lots of free time to be there (aka retired) and know what needs done then I don't see a problem being your own GC if you don't want to DIY or are not able to DIY.

Essentially, someone needs to be in charge. If you don't know how to do it and wont be available during the reno it wont work. An analogy similar to this would be why a team has a coach instead of just letting players run the show. If you know how to do it and play an active role being in charge it should go ok. If your asking how to be your own GC, you probably wont be able to be your own GC because you should already know what you need to know.

Random notes: Painters don't do drywall. Although, some drywall hangers paint. Carpenters do not normally install cabinets, they do rough framing and structural work.

Thanks for posting an update! I think your experience will be encouraging to those who are considering managing their own projects.

Great follow up. And I'm impressed that you got it all done in 6 weeks!

Were you tempted to quote Sophie's original post and point out how every single warning was wrong? :-)

While this is terrific news,still only one side of the story. such is commonplace on threads. Ill wager a few minutes talking to the tradespeople involved there would be a disconnect to some degree.

telluwhat , its saturday and thought id liven the place up a bit.

Not always, just requires people with enough knowledge to schedule properly, be available for questions, check progress and quality, and for the trades to do their jobs correctly. There will always be setbacks in some form life is not perfect. Thanks for the followup L. Glad you could tell others about the experience of how there were challenges but you were able to do it. Not all people would have managed it as well but that is just how it goes. Advice on being a GC is not one size fits all. You are right you dont 'have' to know how to fix your car to take it to a shop and have someone work on it, but there has to be a way for you to check it has been done right. Having that construction knowledge allows you to know they did it right. In the car example you could take it to another shop and have it checked that they actually did the work. With construction, you cant check without tearing it out and redoing it. That is why the quality and progress checks are vital.