Hmm, the Rudbeckia is a new one for me, could probably fit several in the back corner of the yard near the rain garden overflow where I'm looking for something with height. I like the blueish color. I've got some Eutrochium purpureum in that location now, but had planned to move them this spring to a shadier location.

I'm a Rudbeckia snob, so I encourage removing the flower stems on maxima (I hate the flowers...I like the bold foliage)...and keep in mind I grow several other species (and enjoy the flowers) of Rudbeckia. You can flower it for yourself and see if I'm a fool or wise ;) Mine have not only been evergreen this year, but I have major new foliage started in December that's taken 12F in stride and ready to roll forth this spring.

Well, if you can handle native invasives (if you agree on that concept), impatiens capensis (jewelweed) has big interesting leaves and bright small flowers...but you'll have it pretty much forever...it reseeds with abandon. It may be an annual, but it grows fast and will reach six foot in a favorable situation. Hummingbirds love it!

I like the foliage on columbine, my recommended varieties are A. chrysantha (better with half sun or so), and the local native A. canadensis. They lend a nice soft ferny look.

If you desire leaves for a sunny location, don't forget Silphium terebinthinaceum (Prairie dock) and Silphium laciniatum (compass plant)...please note these are big bold plants and not pansies.

I understand the snob factor, there are plants I snub because I simply don't like them. I snubbed echinacea until last year because it seemed like the knee jerk singular plant everyone mentions when they want to add a native or two but now I'm on a tear for some, especially E. angustifolia. For 'big leaves' I have cactus, hesperaloe, yucca etc because they will grow here, are easy & provide strong contrast against grasses, not that it was a plan or anything, it just worked out that way when I shifted my plant focus several years back.

Ouch! I like Rudbeckia hirta because they are so ridiculously happy looking that they give a kind of comic relief. Whasa malla you barron??? Mine come up where they will, here and there at different stages because I toss a few deadheads around so theres always a smiley face or two blooming its little heart out, not lots of them but a few always show up in various places. The original seeds were a gift from PoSW one year after I'd snubbed them for a long time & I didn't sow those for about 3 years. When the one came up, I'd forgotten about it & didn't even know what it was until the next year and now I like them, when they get ratty, which they always do after blooming, I just pull the whole plant since its a biennial.

I have a 2 1/2" long x 3/4" wide cone that I saved from the R. maxima (I just measured it). My plants are still young, I think this will be year #3 or maybe #4, but it appears maybe this summer will be my first to see a mature result, they take a few seasons to reach size. The flower really stood out and was BIG, I had only three flowers when one finally bloomed. The leaves are cabbage-like in texture, currently mine are green but they get more blue in summer but when its not blooming its low to the ground, just big leaves.

Cold hardy native Hibiscus would be bold, there ought to be a variety that would do well there. I've seen them planted with grasses, the combination works quite well especially in late summer.

Woodstea, if you want I can send you seeds, contact me by GW private message, my e-mail is not public but I will get the message.

I like Prairie Dock too, its big. If you like big, you can't beat Cowpen Daisy for hundreds of continuous blooms and nice blue foliage and EASY. One plant in full sun is plenty.

There is a utility easement strip at the very back of my yard that I've thought of sowing with Impatiens capensis. It's down below a stone retaining wall that runs along the back of my property, two and a half feet wide or so with the neighbor's chain link fence running behind it. It's mostly a tangle of English ivy, Virginia creeper, milkweed vine and half dozen or so other things that I go down and cut back somewhat every few years. It has a thick layer of leaf litter, stays moist because it's low and also takes the overflow from the rain garden. Gets bright sun in the late afternoon, but otherwise shaded. I'd like to have something vigorous down there that could provide nectar to hummingbirds and/or butterflies.

I do have a couple of prairie dock plants already, but they are just getting started.

I definitely want to try some annuals/biennials this year following your suggestions, TR. I've got a lot of perennials that I like but whose flowering seasons are pretty short, so there are long gaps from mid-summer on where I don't have much in bloom. Coreopsis tinctoria, Rudbeckia hirta, Helenium amarum -- I'll take a look at cowpen daisy too.

For long bloom time you really cannot beat annual gaillardia. I wouldn't be without it. That and Helenium amarum insures blankets of color (helenium) and blooms from spring until December if we don't get a hard freeze that is which is entirely possible although not always the case. They don't care how hot and dry it gets either. The gaillardia is another from a seed pack sent to me for free from PoSW, otherwise, I'd probably never have grown it.

Heuchera ("alum root" or "coral bells") is a great foliage plant that does well in shade. There's probably 10,000 or so different varieties with different colored/patterned leaves.

I would also agree with columbines, that is if you can keep the sawfly larvae off of them. It's a miracle any of mine survive after being repeatedly mowed to the ground by them all summer long.

In your climate, you could probably get away with some of the cold-hardy ferns, too.

Zach, just my two cents, I can't grow a hybrid heuchera to save my life...I think it has to do with the non-mountain air we have here (heat and humidity) and probably would affect my near neighbor to the North as well.

Yes to some of the hardy ferns...for sure. Columbine miners are all that I've ever seen affect Columbine here...and they're only in the area if there are other columbines (or you bring them in on the plants).

I've got a few Aquilegia canadensis, and I expect to see many more this year as they reseed into the bare areas around them. Last year I had leaf miners, but they don't bother me too much, and the plants seem to recover fairly well if I prune them back after flowering. The leaf miners themselves have a number of predators like chalcid wasps, so I suppose I am helping promote the food web, etc.

These plants as well as the annual suggestions seem more like filler plants to me -- which is not to trivialize them, just the idea that they aren't there for structure and it's okay if they move around through reseeding.

Yep, lots of foliage is just that...filler :)

You might be right Dbarron, I think a lot of cultivars of huechera are (at least partially) H. sanguinea, native to the southwest.

'Autumn Leaves' is a cross between H. americana and H. villosa is said to have excellent heat and humidity tolerance. In fact according to the Missouri Extension service "Heuchera...cultivars from the native species H. villosa and H. americana breading
stock, are perfect for an Ozark garden." So if you, or Woods Tea, are able to find these particular ones, you might have better luck with them.

My columbines are never affected by leaf miners, the sawflies don't leave any for them, lol.

One of the best plants I have found for "structure" are the ornamental grasses. I think TR would agree that they provide excellent "bones" for a sunny perennial bed. I would attribute that to a combination of their more subdued aesthetic and their striking form. The provide a more consistent appearance in contrast to changing blooms of perennial flowers, and their unbecoming nature is contrasted by sharp form helping them to stand out in the landscape but blending into it at the same time. Many of the shade tolerant foliage plants provide the same consistency, but they have a more unassuming form lending them to being "lost" in the landscape and acting more as fillers than structure...if any of that makes sense, I'm really just rambling here.

I use beauty berries and Silphium gracilis for a larger leafed perennial in part shade.

Woods, what about Podophyllum peltatum-the mayapple? true, it is ephemeral in nature, but it could get you part of the way there. Sure has the big bold thing going on.

I've thought about mayapples, yes. There's an excellent Missouri native plants group on Facebook. This spring there were lots of photos posted of various ephemerals as they emerged around the state and I thought the mayapples looked fantastic. Not sure if I've ever seen one.

What's the best way to get spring ephemerals going? Most of my plants are either ones I buy at the April native plant sales or else ones I've wintersown (and these tend to be the typical cold strat summer bloomers). I've seen some ephemerals at the sales, but by that time they are already starting to wind down. I did put a few bluebells in last year but they disappeared within a few weeks. We'll see if they return. It's certainly less fun to plant things you won't see for a year, if at all.

ZachS, probably half of my plantings now are grasses -- yes, definitely great for structure, but I'm lacking contrast, in both texture and color.

I did plant some Heucheras this last year -- they are H. parviflora, native to the Ozarks and Appalachians. One of the few things in my yard right now with green foliage, though it looks rather tired.

Would you be interested in the yellow columbine from west Texas canyons? I know they aren't native to your area. They do fine in good drainage and I have heard that people grow them in areas wetter than mine if the drainage is addressed. I will collect seed for you if you are interested.

Woods, in my capacity as horticulturist for this city's stormwater utility (among other things)-we do lots of projects like stream restorations where development upstream is causing mega-erosion in ravines, etc.-we purchase lots of plugs of various native forbs, sedges, ferns, etc. I could link you to these suppliers, but they're up here and they're strictly wholesale.. I don't know if other states are so blessed with such wholesale plant outlets as we are here. In all honesty, I don't know how or where to get quantities of such plants in this affordable (plug) format, for the retail customer.

All that said, if you were able to find yourself a supplier, I wouldn't hesitate to work with plugs. Just like we always say about trees and shrubs, these small starts tend to take hold and do well.

Hee, being a country boy, it just floors me to think of someone BUYING mayapples. They're so prolific that you can literally dig them up on the side of the road here (and I wouldn't feel bad about doing so...due to how they spread). They don't scare me (planting wise), but expect them to run around all over the place quite freely. They do stand out (thus me being able to spot them at 55 mph going on curvy roads). I like them and I freely admit their big parasols make a statement. Woods where do you live ? We might could meet and go on a digging expedition or something.

The mayapples in Pennsylvania were always n enjoyment in my childhood. would they fulfill the drought hardiness requirements.

My sister calls a plantain she has growing 'Poor Man's Hosta'. I'm pretty sure its Tuberous Indian Plantain, it came up volunteer in her yard up in Kansas where it grows native & she's letting it establish itself. Arnoglossum plantagineum. We both like it better than hosta.

How much shade are we talking about here? I thought it was part sun?

Arnoglossum plantagineum
http://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=ARPL4

Wanto...I'd rate mayapple as quite tolerant to dry soils. Often, under the tree canopy, it can be quite dry and what's more, it's not at all uncommon to see big patches spilling over from the woods out into a sunny, dry roadside or ditch embankment.

TX, That is beautiful. They say it grows in Cen Tex but I have not seen it. I will keep my eyes out for it.

Tex darlin, while your indian plantain is adaptable, it prefers moist soils. I had one appear "spontaneously" in my marshy meadow...in four years, I had about fifty of them (they're low key enough that they were quite welcome). I'm certain they blew in from about 1/2 mile up..there was a pasture there with a corner that had several. I've always liked them...and even had when when I was a kid back in Arkansas...dug it out of dad's land near a stream. If Wood likes it, it will do quite well in his area....not quite sure about Wantonamaras.

It is commonly known as Prairie Hosta or something similar to that...it does fit the bill I think.

OH , I know it would not like my land. In the back of my gorge there is a spot that stays damp. They say it is here in central Texas but this land is all about high ground and low ground. I will keep my eye peeled for them when I am down stream side. I bet there will be some local differences to alkalinity hardiness and drought tolerances. Streams go dry down here.

She offered me a start of her plantain but the shade I have is all dry shade full of hackberry roots and I turned it down for now. It does quite well in Kansas and I imagine it'd do good in Missouri and besides, I like the name she gave it. I think of Hosta's as Slug Food and the idea of planting something related and more imaginative (and native to boot) appealed to me as well.

Dry shade is a challenge, barron. Mine is heavier on the shade than sun but I'm doing well with artemisia (Silver King), Salvia Greggii, Rock Rose (Pavonia), Turk's Cap, Mealycup Sage and surprisingly well with Muhlenbergia dubia which I find I like more than the Deergrass Muhly. I've got a whole area that is Muhly started from volunteers thanks to the generosity of Wantanamara for the 3 original plants she sent because in Texas they actually do sell lots of hard to find natives LOCALLY. Its a big grass and perfectly spherical which is good, a lot of bang for the buck type plants.

Nolina does well and so do those big Englemannii Prickly pear cactus that get the huge yellow flowers and big red pears, they are giant cold hardy ones that don't mind wet feet or rain and which are commonly planted around here although not locally native.

Wantanamara also sent some kind of native Texas Phlox of which I forget the name which is very fragrant and blooms pink in spring and a really nice native skullcap---has big fuzzy heart shaped leaves. This year there is a whole thick patch of them. THANK YOU!!

Maybe Wantanamara can help me out here with some names........ I'm so bad at remembering sometimes. I'm still stumped on that bulb type plant that blooms red in fall. Help!!! I'd know it immediately from a list if I saw the name and have searched in vain.

TR, it's called getting old...and I have it too :( Do you mean lycoris radiata ?

Sometimes the name simply escapes me. Yes, I remember being able to buy native plants in Tx. They're generally harder to find (as you note) farther N and E.

Found it. Its got a silvery cast which is nice for brightening and largish fuzzy leaves. Its also evergreen. The phlox is evergreen too, I think its Drummonddi phlox?
Scutellerai ovata

Others I've tried that do well in mostly shade with some sun are wild yarrow, salvia coccinea and echinacea.

Phlox pilosa , Scutelleria ovata spp. bracteata... I am stumped on the red lily type plant that I sent you. All I can say is TAKE PICTURES.

I do find that Muhlenbergia lindheimeri grows in my woods more than they grow in sunshine because they grow where the moisture run past or seeps and that is normally in an arroyo or on its way to one. The character of the grass is definitely changed by the shade and it becomes a long swath of bent flowing grass and not a large upright tuft that arches over. It is amazing how many PP are in my woods. Again the character is changed. the cactus gets very dark green in the woods and never grows to large.

No barron, thats not it. The problem was too many plants, she sent me a lot in one shipment and I tossed the labels too soon after planting in fall trying to clean up & beat the weather, next year I was left with trying to figure out what was what because I hadn't marked them or written down names. She'd labeled all the plants and I would know it as soon as I saw the name. Its some kind of bulb type plant, 1.5 foot tall stems, long green bulb type leaves and blooms reddish orange in fall. Produces a lot of seeds.

Mara, it grows wild on your property, come on WHAT IS IT?

I planted 5 Lindheimerii in dry shade, they are looking great & they bloomed, I've got them behind the M. dubia's. In the winter & late fall its sun which looks nice in late afternoon with the west sun shining through, but all summer its nearly full shade.

If I saw a picture, I bet I could name it too...you do have a pic, right ?

No.

Mara, it was with that group of plants you sent of stuff that grows well in shade, if that broad hint is any help. The leaves look sort of like daylily leaves only not nearly so robust and big. It won't be until Fall 2016 that I can take a picture. It blooms late fall only last fall it got nipped by cold so it didn't have a chance. The flowers, if I remember right back to 2014, were clusters on top of stems rather than a single flower per stem. Lots of black seeds in papery deals.

I'm usually not a fan of big leafs...they have too tropical a look. My first thought is ostrich ferns. They create a wonderful wooded look. Also, what about trillium?

Ostrich ferns can be a bit too successful (just my two cents)...spent years getting rid of a good stand (lol).

For me that's a selling point. When I plant something, I want it to *STAY* planted. It depends what you are planting it with...If the OP is planting it with grasses and forbes, it has to be pretty aggressive to not get smothered.

Yes, ostrich fern is famously growing out into the lawn all over northern N. America! But that very rhizomatous nature also means is is a great soil-stabilizer, holder of banks, etc. There are large patches of this fern in full sun-in wet ditches in NE Wisconsin. Nobody planted them, nobody takes care of them...but they do magnificently well. We have begun using it in some of our stormwater projects.

There is also cinnamon fern.

Yeah, that's another great fern. In my experience, not quite so rambunctious in terms of colonizing new ground, so that could be a plus in the garden setting, and a minus in terms of holding banks, etc....but a most interesting and beautiful fern. BTW, all ferns are considered "soil builders". They tend to come into a site early, like say after the lava has cooled, lol, and tend to pave the way for other groups of plants later.

So sorry I didn't wade into this post earlier, but what you really want is Spikenard-Aralia racemosa. First time I saw it I was overwhelmed. Growing in partly sun area, large leaves that split off angularly, frothy plumes, and red berries late summer.

I collected seed two years ago in fall and sowed them outdoors. I must have had about a thousand seedlings in spring. I'm still giving them away.

You might like to look at the eryngoes - some very fascinating eryngiums in the US and, although not exactly large leaved (a neat rosette) I have become slightly obsessed with dodecatheons. In the UK, we commonly come across d.meadia but I have seeds arrived for pulchellum and jeffryi. The primula family as a whole have been objects of desire for this sandy, dryland gardener and finally having moisture and shade, I intend to utterly ignore ph (neutral to acid - mine isn't) and plough ahead. No end of woodlanders but mostly spring - disporum, maianthemum, uvularia, jeffersonia, tellima, saxifrage, gillenia etc.

I also bought an absolutely enormous artemisia (a.lactflora rosenschlier) to grow with panicum and miscanthus. I have the willow-leaved sunflower but remove the (insignificant) flowers.

eta - just remembered begonia evansii ( b.grandis ssp evansiana-) a hardy type which should do OK in your zone...and also, polygonatums (Solomon seal things). Might be straying from the purist path though...