"Acer cappadocicum ssp. lobelii"

Usually treated as a distinct species Acer lobelii

"Acer griseum x pseudoplatanus"

Sounds a highly improbable hybrid combination! I'd be very dubious about the claimed parentage.

Resin

Where do you get all those trees? Half of them I've never heard of before. Mail order or local?
If local please give me some names of places to visit if I'm ever in Syracuse

Great posting...love hearing about collections.

Quercus dentata 'Pinnatifida'... could you tell us more about this tree?

I've just ordered a variegated gingko, a weeping gingko, two weeping black tupelos, and a variegated English oak.

I have nine "Gold Rush" dawn redwoods which I hope to plant into a grove this winter. I also have a white redbud, a "Blue Ice" Arizona cypress, and three "Wolf Eyes" chinese dogwoods.

Suggestions for zone nine are appreciated.

While I can recognize some common latin, (Acer, Quercus) I'm sure that other novices like me appreciate a few common names, here and there.

Any southern collecters out there?

Here is a list of some different trees I'm trying in the last couple of years and some others that are closer to decade.

Kalopanax septemlobus- dies to ground like paulownia

Tetracentron sinense-died in the heat, I don't know, probably try it again.

Pteroceltis tartarinowii-I don't even remember if I still have it, I think the deer killed it. But it was very vigorous as I remember.

Paulownia tomentosa-dies to ground

Paulownia elongata-dies to ground

Aralia elata-growing slowly, but surely will gain dominance, just needs more time.

'99alnus glutinosa-I thought this one was a winner. Very vigorous and would be nearly the last to drop its green leaves in the fall. But then they have died back and pretty much are wasted space.

'00Cercidiphyllum japonicum-haven't been impressed or disappointed by this tree.

'98Ginkgo biloba-If I live to 500 years old, I'll be impressed with this tree.

'98Metasequoia glyptostroboides-not fast growing in my conditions. Japanese larch are twice as tall in same conditions. But the fall color makes me wanting more.

Pterocarya rhoifolia-some dieback, but fast growing

Pterocarya stenoptera-started from seed last year, not sure how many will have survived.

Pterocarya hupehensis-another that I have, seeing which one is the best.

Eucommia ulmoides-sounds interesting, too little to know much yet.

Gleditsia caspica-if this is truly what I got from seed, fast growth from seed, and little dieback

Gleditsia sinensis-Looks like it could be total topkill from seed last year. See if they decide to come back and live.

Hovenia dulcis-not much luck with this fool, dies to ground

Salix alba caerulea- I have my very own cricketbat willow. fast growth like most willows.

Have both chitalpas, morning cloud last year and 'pink dawn' this year. Morning cloud flowered last year and grew quickly. There is probable winter damage.

Populus koreana-never grew as fast as my Populus cathayana, but is prettier.

Populus alba 'Richardii'- looks great in spring, but doesn't grow. Not what I was hoping for in white poplar.

Platanus x acerifolia 'Suttneri'

Here are some added in '07 spring season-

Platycarya strobilacea
Toona sinensis
Populus candicans 'Aurora'
Populus angustifolia
Populus simonii 'fastigiata'
Populus szechuanica
Populus tomentosa
Magnolia kobus borealis
Aesculus turbinata
Halesia monticola
Catalpa ovata
Rhus verniciflua

and some others I'm trying from seed.

Salix genus could be an interesting one to collect, since there are so many species that are big or small.

"While I can recognize some common latin, (Acer, Quercus) I'm sure that other novices like me appreciate a few common names, here and there"

Mostly, they don't have any common names . . . they are, after all, rare trees, so should only have rare names ;-)

"Kalopanax septemlobus- dies to ground like paulownia ..... '99alnus glutinosa-I thought this one was a winner. Very vigorous and would be nearly the last to drop its green leaves in the fall. But then they have died back and pretty much are wasted space"

The Kalopanax failure is really surprising, it is a very hardy tree native north to eastern Siberia. Maybe yours is from a southern origin? Worth trying some other sources.

For Alnus glutinosa, it sounds like it is possibly suffering from Phytophthora alni infection, check the symptoms against the photos at the link below.

Resin

Here is a link that might be useful: Phytophthora disease of alders

I was surprised as well about your Kalopanax failure. I looked at a mature specimen at Longenecker Gardens in Madison, WI, last summer that was flowering and quite attractive. There's a variety that has deeply cut leaves as well. Anyone know where I might find one in the upper midwest?

Right up my alley here, but too much to respond to!

1) Have three Kalopanax septemlobus planted here going into third season, all in full sun and never had any dieback. All about 7 ft. tall now. One is the deep-lobed form which I believe is var. maximowiczii, it came in unsolicited (but welcome!) with the others from Forest Farm.

2) Two Tetracentron sinense planted last spring, one died immediately from full sun, moved the other one to 3/4 shade and it did well but is slow to leaf out this spring. Two others I overwintered in containers are going into spots with at least half-day shade.

3) Pteroceltis tatarinowii: I have two small ones growing in containers and they grow well, but mainly laterally, floppy, will be a struggle to encourage apical dominance.

4) Eucommia ulmoides: entering fourth season, grow well in any exposure, but pretty boring as an ornamental. The leaf-tearing trick is fun, though, and it's a very important tree in traditional Chinese herbal medicine (du zhong).

5) Mixed results on Pterocarya x rehderiana. Two had severe winter dieback, the third less so and has taken off now in its fourth year, about ten ft. tall, strong tendency to be multi-stem. I like the look of this tree.

6) Acer davidii, capillipes and rufinerve: a pair of each bought as 3" caliper B&B, about 18 ft. tall & planted last spring, I thought in spots perhaps too sunny. Got a little bark scorch last summer, but all are leafing out now and all but one is flowering.

7) Sciadopitys verticillata: starting to get good growth now on two that are about 2 ft. tall, hoping for 6 to 8 inches of new stem this year!

8) Liriodendron chinense: two spindly ones about 7 ft. tall, planted fall of 05, some modest growth last year, hoping for significantly more this season. If you like the L. tulipifera leaf, you'll like this one a lot, too!

9) Nyssa sinensis: came in large B&B last year (like maples above) and was surprised to see it lost hardly a twig to dieback in summer after transplant or over the winter. Is leafing out strongly now.

10) Chionanthus retusis: similar size to above, just leafing out now. Will be interesting to see if it flowers this year. Habit seems a lot different from C. virginicus, kind of "frizzy" or "twisty," and branches seem notably thinner.

11) Acer macrophyllum: hmmm, seems hardy enough (some minor twig dieback in winter) but not a strong grower so far; it didn't help that vandals knocked off the top half of it last summer.

12) Taxodium ascendens: only have been in ground a year but seem to like their new home in full sun.

13) Stewartia pseudocamellia: two in ground one year now, rather thin but 7 ft. tall, both flowered last summer.

Things that have been difficult: establishing Sassafras (one of three survived). Casualties: Larix occidentalis, Cedrus deodara, Franklinia altamaha, Mag virginiana (trying again this spring in hopefully a better location). I posted about the Euptelea loss under a separate header.

Things we're trying this spring: Mag grand 'Bogue' and 'BBB,' Pterostyrax hispida, Styrax japonicus, Alnus glutinosa 'Imperialis,' Mag sieboldianum, Stewartia sinensis, Acer circinatum, A. triflorum, A. pseudosieboldianum and Chionanthus virginicus. The last is flowering now in a container on my patio, waiting to be set out, and the scent is wonderful! It reminds me of lilac, but a friend says it's more like jasmine...in any case all of them Oleaceae!

One thing I would like to do now is get as many North American Carya spp. as possible established here. Omitting C. floridana as highly unlikely, there are ten others (eleven if you count ovalis separate from glabra). Right now I have ovata, laciniosa, glabra, cordiformis, illinoensis, texana and myristiciformis in containers (air pruning). The last two are available from Oikos this year. Generally considered Zone 6 in the literature, Oikos claims they've brought these through Zone 5 winters with no problems. I'm looking for a source for tomentosa (definitely hardy here) and if I saw pallida or aquatica available (esp. from a more northern source), I'd definitely pick up a pair of each.

Cacau

Resin, would you happen to have any idea why Acer lobelii is so uncommon? It seems to have many ornamental attributes for such a rare tree, and it's not like its some exotic species from a lonely valley in Yunnan, but from mainland Europe itself. In regards to the hybrid I agree it seems unlikely, although I have seen a peer-reviewed paper on Acer genetics that concluded that these Maples are not as distantly related as they may appear. Dirr himself mentions a hybrid (saccharum x griseum) he found in a seedbed, in his manual, so I guess it's possible. Esveld has a few photos of pseudoplatanus x griseum, and my plant looks exactly like the ones in their photos.

Quirkyquercus- Almost all of my plants are mail order. My main source is forestfarm, although I have also ordered from Arborvillage (going out of business unfortunately), Camellia Forest, and Colvos Creek. I'm not aware of any really good sources of rare material in the Syracuse area, although I hear Durand-Eastman park in Rochester houses many unusual species, especially maples, and has been a source of scionwood for some rare tree nurseries. Some of the plants there are beleived to have been lost to cultivation and are listed as such in some references.

vancleaveterry- I can't really offer too much information on the Quercus dentata 'Pinatifida'. The species itself is a medium sized oak with HUGE leaves. It was one of the first trees I saw on a college field trip to Morris Arboretum in Philly and I was truly awed by it, even though their plant was relatively young it stook out in my mind. When I saw forestfarm offering a cutleaf version, I had to have it. It presents a very ferny of feathery appearance; I beleive there are some photos of it on esveld's site. Be sure to keep us updated on those Ginkgos!

Cacau- I really like the hickories as well. I have been trying to find a source for some of the chinese species, so far without luck. I would try the floridana anyway- only one way to know if it will live or not! I also beleive that forestfarm sells the aquatica in in the tube size, as I almost purchased one this past spring, opting instead for a dubiously identified Chinese Coffeetree. You got really lucky getting a cutleaf Kalopanax; that plant was on my list this year but the only source I know for it was Arborvillage, which is closing. Ditto the cutleaf walnuts I wanted.

Thanks to everyone else who responded with lists of their collections. It's always interesting to see what other people have and what is succeeding where.

"any idea why Acer lobelii is so uncommon?"

Sorry, no idea! It is rare over here, too. Quite a few are grafted on Acer cappadocicum (grafted specimens easily picked out by the root suckers!), which suggests propagation may be tricky.

Tried looking up . . . seems it is also very rare (and listed as endangered) in the wild in southern Italy, where it occurs only as scattered individuals "including the endemic Acer lobelii Ten., which grows in small areas in the meso-hygrophilous beech forest, each of which consists of very few individuals or even of isolated individuals" Guarino C & Napolitano F (2006). Forest@ 3 (4): 527-541 1

Resin

Ptero,

Thanks for the tip...I missed seeing the Carya aquatica in the FF catalog. Might have to order a couple of tubes, will have to check out the minimum order and the shipping cost.

I think I'll pass on the Carya floridana for now, until I see someone in Zone 7 growing it! Anyway, I haven't seen it on offer anywhere.

Forgot to mention in earlier post that I'm growing Ziziphus jujuba and Leitneria floridana. The former I know can be grown here, the latter...no idea.

Broken Arrow Nursery in Hamden, CT is a wonderful source.

I just planted Acer x conspicuum 'Phoenix' and Parrotia Persica 'Lamplighter' today (I went out there last weekend). From them, I've also gotten Zelkova Serrata Goshiki and Ogon, Cercidiphyllum 'Tidal Wave', Stewartia Pseudocamellia, Acer pectinatum ssp. forrestii, Acer tegmentosum 'Joe Witt', Aesculus pavia, Betula Nigra 'Summer Cascades, Cornus a. 'Golden Shadows, C. controversa 'Janine', C. Kousa 'Elizabeth Lustgarten' and 'Summer Games, Franklinia, Halesia monticola 'Variegata', Ginkgo 'Chris' Dwarf', Heptacodium miconoides (ok, that's a shrub), Taxodium distichum 'Cascade Falls'... tired of typing. :-D

(I guess my fondness for variegated trees is showing through).

Anyway, for anybody on the right coast, BAN is a better bet than FF for a lot of things. A friend of mine makes a trip to BAN from Syracuse pretty regularly.

My yard has the following trees:
Paper bark Maple
Japanese Maples
Vine Maple
Hedge Maple
Dawn Redwood
Bald Cypress
Sawtooth Oak
English Oak - "Skyrocket"??
Turkey Oak - Q. cerrus
Red Buckeye
Ruby Red Horse Chestnut - "Briotti"
Red, pink, white Cornus florida
Cornus mas,Cornus alternatfolia
Chinese Dogwood
Redbud
Giant Sequoia "Glauca"
Ginkgo - Fastigatia, Princeton Sentry, Salem Lady, Fairmount, Magyar, Autnum Gold
Magnolia - accuminata, stellata, tripetala, Asheii, "Butterlies", hypoleuca/obovata, virginiana grandiflora ssp. 'Edith Bogue, Bracken's Brown Beauty, Pocano and clone from Appalachian Gardens.
Service berries, fringe trees, Sweet Gum, Sassafras, Japanese Tree Lilac
European Beech - River' s and Rohanii.

I think all are listed - its a jungle out there!!

~ Gerry

Pteroceltis... Thanks for mentioning "Forest Farms". I saw a half dozen oaks on their web site that I will order this winter. Lord knows what I'll find when I explore further.

I will definatly be ordering a Quercus dentata 'Pinatifida', the cutleaf version. And hopefully the Gingko I have on order (off ebay) will have good variegation. I hear they can be disappointing.

I may try some coast redwoods next year. The Giant Sequoia's don't seem to like the summers here.

Also will try "Appalacian Red" redbuds next year along with a half dozen other redbud varieties I am looking at.

Broken Arrow nursery's "Chris's dwarf gingko" is now on my want list.

Pteroceltis - You compared Acer miaotaiense to A. miyabei - just wondering if you are also growing miyabei? A. miyabei 'State Street' does very well here. I'm also surprised you don't have the griseum x maximowiczianum hybrid on your list (cultivars 'Gingerbread' and 'Girard's Form') - this hybrid is probably a bit hardier than straight griseum. A. maximowiczianum should also be in your collection. Are you familiar with or have you considered trying Liquidambar acalycina? L. acalycina 'Burgundy Flush' is supposed to be pretty hardy (original tree from Beijing).

vancleaveterry, where did you order your variegated gingko from? Do you know how many hundreds of collectors have been searching for those to no avail? Please share your source! Thanks!

Matt Dominish "Dominish2007" sells them on ebay, along with a number of other interesting graftings. He has weeping gingkos, weeping black gum tupelos, cut leaf beech, wolf-eyes dogwoods, variegated English oaks, Weeping dawn redwood 'Miss Grace' Quercus robur 'purpurea' (purple english oak) etc etc.... and a bunch of Japanese maples.

I am happy with the half dozen plants I have bought from him.

Dominish doesn't have a variagated gingko listed at the moment but I have a link to an expired auction that has pics. You can have a look and see if that is what you're after.

He seems to post one about every other month. Let him know you're after one and I bet he lists one right away.

Terry

Here is a link that might be useful: ebay variagated gingko

I know this is an old thread, but I thought that was a good reason to ask some of you how your trees have done since 2007. An update, if you will. Successes & failures.

I haven’t visited these forums in some time and actually rediscovered this thread doing a google search on some rare plants (go figure). Since we have a lot of trees and not a lot of resources and time to protect them, most of my losses are due to deer/rodent herbivory. Instead of dwelling on all of the plants I haven’t been able to keep alive, I’ll mention the highlights and surprises here. I went go in depth on too many so ask if you want more details and I’ll try to keep an eye on this thread and respond back when I can. I have been in Arizona since May and I’m basing the updates from this past growing season on my mother’s observations.

-Strongest growing maple is Acer lobelii by far; arrived as a stick broken in half during shipping en route from Colvos Creek Nursery in Washington state and has grown at least 3 feet a year. It towers over all of the other sticks in my maple collection at about 15 feet.

-Acer davidii grosseri hersii (what a taxonomic mess!) is the strongest growing snakebark and a new addition since the original post I believe. I don’t give it any “help” nutrition-wise and it has grown 2 feet each year; excellent striped bark turns crimson with the onset of cold weather and the leaves are a mix of red, orange, and purple in the autumn. From Forestfarm and while they are awesome, I have not yet keyed this plant to confirm its identity; either way, doing awesome for a snakebark in a clay-dominated alkaline soil in an exposed area.

-Acer rufinerve gets no fertilization either and has some years where it sits back and grows little, and other where it takes off. Apparently this year it grew over 2’, so it now stands about 8’. Bark is excellent, although it doesn’t change to crimson like some of the other snakebarks. Can occasionally develop minor signs of nutrient deficiency but not a big deal. Leaves are amazing both texturally (coarse) and by color in the autumn, a mix of red, orange and violet.

-Acer henryi looks like a Boxelder and grows like one in upstate NY. After a rough time establishing and a nasty bout of sunscald, it now grows about 2’ a year and has excellent red and violet autumn colors, with violet usually dominating.

-Acer longipes is notable because I was able to get one through a winter (low -13F) with the only damage due to herbivory. Supposedly sprouted up big time this past summer. Not many experts seem to place much faith in its hardiness and it may have been below the snowline at the time of the low temp. Time will tell.

-Acer mandshuricum, Acer triflorum, and Acer maximowiczianum all suffer through chlorosis. A. triflorum does the worst, A. maximowiczianum the best. A hybrid from Forestfarm between A. pseudoplatanus and A. griseum has done very well, with violet-backed leaves and red fall color. Hybrid vigor and no cold or soil issues.

-Acer oliverianum is starting to pick up steam and has yet to be damaged by temps as low as -16F. Might be benefiting from the protection of a nearby hedge. Fall color is usually reddish-orange; it is deeply shaded.
-Calycanthus raulstonii ‘Hartlage Wine’ is a huge success. Massive flowering in the second year and completely hardy. Grows very fast and gets leggy unless trimmed. Flowers are gorgeous and large, with virtually no scent. Numerous visitors that have seen the plants have subsequently scoured google for a dealer. The intense color has even drawn some hummingbirds. Seedless. Highly recommend.

-Magnolia grandiflora ‘Bracken’s Brown Beauty’ gets defoliated by about January when the truly consistent cold temperatures begin. This about the time that the soil freezes for good as well, limiting the plant’s ability to care for the leaves no doubt. At times, it looks like a fancy houseplant with shiny green leaves growing amongst the snow. No cold-dieback although it is not yet established and grows only about 6 inches a year max so far (haven’t got an update for this past season yet). It is late to leaf out in the spring.

-Have a Stewartia malacodendron that apparently did very well in a shaded and very rich sand lens in a protected area that gets partial shade. It is big enough to be above the (likely) snow line and I will be very, VERY interested in seeing if it overwinters.

Perhaps more updates later (and as I receive them!)

Thanks for the update!

Over the last 20 years I have tried a large number of woody plant species and selections here in Z5 NH. There are too many to list here but if anyone is interested I could mail you the list. And I would be happy to answer any questions you have regarding adaptability.

I presently live in Tallahassee, a very kind climate for Magnolia grandiflora (and aging Yankees!), although for 38 years I lived in Irondequoit, NY (Rochester) on the west side of Durand Eastman Park. The park was founded 100 years ago on the shores of Lake Ontario by George Eastman and Henry Durand, who hired Frederick Law Olmstead to design it, and it contains a wealth of horticultural exotics. To me, the most surprising was a mature and very happy Magnolia grandiflora. How it manages to survive the Rochester winters is a mystery to me, but it does and apparently has for a long while. It is growing among other mature trees in a small ravine that is sheltered from the west.

While on this subject, I have another magnolia mystery. A beautiful seedling has appeared in my yard and is growing like a weed. I would take it to be a Magnolia grandiflora, of which I suppose it must be some cultivar, but the leaves show no trace of the rusty-colored backs which I always thought of as a fundamental of grandiflora. Is this perhaps missing in very young plants? It now is about 5 feet tall and about 3 years old. I'm looking to transplant it this winter as it chose to begin life in the shadow of a Satsuma orange tree!

Bob Brown, Tallahassee r9brown99@gmail.com

I'm confused r9brown99, did you just bump this old thread because it mentions someone trying a Magnolia grandiflora in upstate NY, or because you were the original poster and have now moved to Florida? ("presently"?)

Your plant that doesn't quite look like Magnolia grandiflora is probably Magnolia virginiana, which would be evergreen down there.

r9, Magnolia grandifloras can be fuzzy, rusty brown on the underside OR smooth green. Many (most) of the ornamental cultivars are selected, in part, for that characteristic. Older species are typically light green on the back.

I don't see a picture to help you verify.

Apparently, M. grandiflora are not unusual in the area. See THIS old thread.