No hot water - what the energy ratings really mean!
refiredo
8 years ago
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sparky823
8 years agowhirlpool_trainee
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoRelated Discussions
on demand hot water - how long does it take to get hot water?
Comments (3)The time it takes for the hot water to get to your faucets or shower is related to the distance the water has to travel from the hot water source to the sink and the diameter of the hot water building supply pipe (typically 3/4 inch) as well as the feeder pipe to the sink (typically 1/2 inch). A 3/4 inch pipe holds about 8 ounces of water for every 3 feet of pipe. So if your tank (or tankless) unit is 90 feet away from a faucet, you would have to push out about 1.8 gallons of cold water (plus whatever water is in the feeder pipe, a 6 foot section of 1/2 inch pipe holds about 8 ounces of water) before the hot flows. A typical sink faucet will run at 1.5 gallons per minute maximum flow rate - so you are looking at over 1 minute to get hot water in this scenario. With tankless units, there is also a small delay between the time the unit senses water flowing through it (which triggers it to fire) and the time the unit heats the water up to the set temperature. There are 3 ways you can eliminate the long delay. The first is to put a hot water source (tank or tankless unit) closer to the sinks that are far away from the current source. The second way is to use point of use hot water generators under key sinks that you use. These POU units are very small tanks or tankless units designed to service just once sink. The last method is to install a recirculating loop where you constantly circulate hot water through the hot water building supply. I have a Rinnai tankless system that we installed in the basement directly below the master bathroom. From the time I turn on a shower or sink, hot water is flowing within 10 seconds. That was the good news. The bad news was that the kitchen sink and 3 other sinks that we use often are over 120 feet away from the Rinnai tankless units. Just before we finished the house, we discovered that it was taking several minutes to get hot water at the kitchen sink - and that was unacceptable to us. I wound up installing a recirculting loop. This was not the way I would have preferred to do it, but space and venting in the basement on that side of the house was an issue. You could just live with the delay you have - 1 minute isn't that bad. If you decide to fix the delay, I recommend posting some details on the plumbing forum and seeking advice on how best to correct....See MoreInstant hot water--energy waster?
Comments (21)I've had one for about a year-and-a-half and I use it a lot and really like it. Ours is plugged into the same outlet that our disposer is plugged into - no problems with that (it was done by electricians). I plugged mine into a programmable timer. I mostly only use the hot water in the morning for tea etc. and at night when making dinner. So I have it on a timer so that it runs for a period of time in the morning, and in the evening, but is off most of the middle of the day and overnight so that it's not continually heating water when I'm not likely to use it. I'm not sure if it saves a lot, but it was easy and inexpensive to do, and I guess it doesn't hurt....See More1st hr rating=deceptive - Tricky hot water heater sizing problem
Comments (14)drtechno, How cold is the water at the coldest part of the year? If it is 35-40 degrees (I've seen mine get near 32) then a 70 degree rise would bring it to 105-110...not 120 On a tankless, you assume a shower temp of 105 as if the tankless was outputting 105 degree water and forget about mixing. So, a 200k btu/h tankless could heat ~5 gpm from 40 - 110 degrees (which would give you a little extra for heat loss in the pipes and the option to run more than 105 if you like hotter showers) which is enough to run two standard showers, but not your 7 gpm master shower... and certainly not all three. The reason that you don't worry about mixing ratios on a tankless is because you aren't storing any water. On a tank system, it makes sense to store 40 gal of 140 degree water and mix it down to 105. There's no benefit to doing this on a tankless. Some of them even have bathroom controls so you can set your shower all the way to HOT and then set the water heater to output the exact temp you want. In practice, you generally set a tankless to 120 or so for the dishwasher and washing machine - but it doesn't change the capacity of the heater. You are running less water through the heater, but it's at a higher temp rise so the math is the same....See MoreNewbie & really bad windows / energy costs - need help
Comments (9)My goodness, your situation sounds exactly like ours! We were paying $250 on average in 2002 and decided it was time to take action! We are in Central CA, just south of SF Bay Area. Same conditions as your place. High enough on a slope that regularly has to 60-MPH gusts in Winter. During the last storm, warning in our area was for 75-MPH wind. In the summer, the exposed slope can heat outside to 115-F easily. Burning heat. Expecting snow the first part of this week. We are planning our retirement as well and setting up our place to hopefully last 20+ years with no more big improvements. I strongly suggest using windows with the following qualities: 1. In sun exposed location, consider using fiberglass or aluminum clad. In shaded location or less exposed location, vinyl may be OK. 2. In Wild fire zone, forget vinyl and stick with aluminum clad. 3. Have at least double-pane. 4. Make sure the window has Low-Solar-Heat-Gain Low-E II (or even III) coating. 5. If your elevation allows, consider buying those with argon gas filled in between the glass panes. 6. Sites that help determine best measurements for our locations. Main link: http://www.efficientwindows.org/ I did a search for windows appropriate for CA - San Diego and this link takes you there: http://www.efficientwindows.org/city_all.cfm?id=6 You can change the search by changing it to "All glass types" instead of "Double Low-Solar....." just to see. You can also look at CA-Daggett if that more closely approximate your location. 7. If you are in Wild Fire zones, be sure to use tempered glass. It will buy an extra safety margin. Low-E II (or III) is a coat of material applied to the glass so that it reflects solar heat away from the house in the summer and yet able to reflect the interior heat back into the house in the winter. We have them on ours and it is absolutely fantastic. THis is a must. Some will certainly argue that vinyl windows are cheaper and do as well. We still have two Milgard vinyl windows left in our house. As a home owner who wants to live peacefully through retirement, I will not use vinyl. Vinyl is inherently weak chemically so other chemicals must be added for it to survive heat and cold and so on. Why bother? If you are willing to spend for long term satisfaction, go straight for fiberglass or aluminum-clad wood interior windows. Fiberglass and aluminum are both stronger than vinyl and require no special additive to stiffen them against heat and cold. As for Argon gas, it can only be used up to a certain elevation. Reputable windows dealers will know this and know whether they can order the gas for you. The gas fills the airspace between the glass panes so that solar heat cannot easily travel by convection from the outer glass to the inner glass. It can cook outside up to 115-F and the inside remains a cool 75. It is wonderful! As for brands, we used Marvin Windows (bought 4 years ago now). They make a fiberglass version too. Andersen windows is a good brand as long as you buy the higher end versions that meet your requirements. My relatives use Andersen in SF East Bay Hills area, one lives on Santa Cruz mountains facing the sea. We last shop for windows 4+ years ago so I can say nothing about other brands now. Our experience is that we paid for what we got most of the time. Go cheap, for sure it will have cheaper performance. Do research carefully before signing anything. Be very picky and let the shop know you are "picky". A bit of hard work now up front will save a lot of angst later. For contractors, make sure they know what they are doing. Some charge extravagant prices if they think they can fool ya. Some charge too low because they cut corners. You will need to get good recommendations and learn a bit about how windows are installed and then quiz the contractors. Then watch them like a hawk. They will need access inside and outside. For ease of access, we basically cleared everything away from our windows so they could move safely and swiftly without hurting themselves or slowing the job. Better we give them lots of room than hurting them or having them accidentally break something. Finally, a side note. We installed a 10KW Grid-Tied PV Solar system on our property and have paid nothing to PG&E since. It cost $75K at the time, state paid $25K rebate so we ended up with $50K. At current PG&E rate, we would be paying close to $300 a month even with new windows. We will "recoup" our $50K in 14 years. With PG&E rate about to go up again this year, it has been a blessing. You do not need a 10KW system to save. Most families use a 5KW to reduce energy cost. It is worth considering for your location. Good luck and Happy Retirement!!!...See Moremamapinky0
8 years agomamapinky0
8 years agotideman_59
8 years agoceruleanblue
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoAlex Chicago
8 years agowhirlpool_trainee
8 years agowhirlpool_trainee
8 years agoceruleanblue
8 years agowhirlpool_trainee
8 years agoAlex Chicago
8 years agobossyvossy
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agowhirlpool_trainee
8 years agoAlex Chicago
8 years agoceruleanblue
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoDon
8 years agorpsinfoman
8 years ago
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