Cyn, I'm not exactly sure what Thermage is so can't say for sure if Ultherapy is the same or similar. I think Ultherapy has been out since around 2012, if I'm not mistaken. It uses ultrasound to lift the face and neck, but upon further research online I'm not so sure it's something I would do. I read a number of horror stories about it destroying healthy facial fat, and I certainly wouldn't want that to happen. I even read at least review from a plastic surgeon saying that he has had to do reconstructive procedures on Ultherapy users because their face becomes so shrunken over time. Ultherapy is supposed to keep working over a period of months and longer, and that is something that concerns me somewhat. At least with the fillers, there is a finite lifespan to the product and it's not something that keeps on and keeps on.

http://www.ultherapy.com/

I also prefer to have something done by my MD and the fillers are given by the dermatologist, while Ultherapy is performed by an aesthetician.

Jen, here's a link I copied when I was doing some research on the derma roller. While they do sell their own brand of the roller, the info on how to use it, what size, how often (based on the size) and cautions of overusing are worth reading. I have no affiliation with the site whatsoever.

I also found lots of conflicting instructions but this one seemed to err on the side of caution with explanations why. Overdoing it apparently can also ruin your skin. I figured better safe than sorry at the beginning and then to go ahead and tailor it to your needs once you know how your skin will respond.

I haven't ordered one yet so don't have any personal experience.

http://dermarollerinfo.com/how-to-use-dermaroller/

Talk about sobering. One of my art exercises was to do a self portrait. I did it in the morning with no make up on and holy cow , though my skin is smooth I have droopy jowls. I realize that if I had make up on I would have looked a bit younger but I can tell you that self portrait really has my head spinning. Yikes!!!

Holly-Kay, isn't it weird how we can see ourselves so differently depending on the context? I'll get ready to go someplace, do a last mirror check, and go, not bad, all things considered. Then I will catch a glimpse of myself in unfamiliar lighting and be horrified. Now, something we all need to be honest about is, in the end, what does it matter? I was feeling good about my appearance and having a nice day. Do we let unflattering lighting, etc. undo all that? It's hard, but it all comes from within.

Holly Kay are you an artist?

Linelle, when I was younger I looked in the mirror every opportunity, to make sure all was well with my makeup and hair, now I do my makeup/hair in the morning and dont look at myself the rest of the day.

RoseAbbey, I think that's a good plan. :)

me too, roseabbey! what is that- confidence or not caring anymore!? ;)

good luck. auntjen! hope u love it!

FWIW, I don't believe I saw anyone on here ever recommend using a derma roller daily. Skin does need time to recover and that turnover time will vary with each person.

On hair days, I just don't look in the mirror. The lighting is so harsh.

Roseabby, I do the same thing. I might run fingers through hair during the day sometimes, but I never rebrush or reapply makeup. I used to put on light lipstick each time I left the house, but gave that up months ago. It doesn't stay on, so unless we're going out for the evening (special event) I don't even bother.

I ordered a Nuface device yesterday - skinstore.com has 20% off storewide code. 30 day return policy. I decided to order/try instead of considering injections at this point. When I've had decent sleep, underneath my eyes are not bad, so it should do what I want. Thanks to the poster above that mentioned Nuface.

I have been following this thread, as well as some others with related topics. My head is spinning. I am 62, and in the last few years (maybe 2) I am painfully aware of changes in my face. Reading this, I am actually feeling a little better in that I think I can understand that the majority of the people I think have aged really well have probably been doing injections or other more"minor" fixes. I am toying with the concept but I am very afraid of it (no to mention put off by the cost). I always wonder too , that of course there are people who look wonderful from the help, but so many do not. And I would think that they have all (or most ) gone into this with good investigating . I guess I am just scared though I will admit that I think the marionette lines sounds like a good idea. The one that really troubles me is the bags under my eyes. I have a feeling that this would not be an easy fix so I might just choose to ignore it (if only I can).

I had posted a while ago inquiring about the derma rollers and still havent done any thing on that. I do use moisurizers but maybe will investigate the retin a or restilyn.

I so agree about how I can look in the mirror and think I am looking pretty good, and then see another view (or a photo :( and just be shocked how it can be the same person the same day.

My head is spinning with all this info.

Sheilaauss122, I hope you don't get dizzy from all the head spinning! I think too many of us are too hard on ourselves. DH tells me all day, every day, I am gorgeous. While he didn't think I needed a facelift (50th bday present to myself, 5 years ago), he agrees it took 10 years off. I didn't have bags under the eyes, but my upper lids and jawline were starting to sag. I am not photogenic and these things didn't help. I do feel better about myself since then and just want to stay "fresh." Not trying to fool anyone (very upfront about my age) and do things for myself, not DH, family or friends.

Oh, I wish I had the guts to do the facelift!

Who mentioned NuFace?

sheilaaaus, if the under eye bags really bother you, you should investigate a blepharoplasty. It is one of the least involved procedures and, if you choose the right plastic surgeon, can make a world of difference. There is really very little to it and no scars or visible incisions as they are inside the lower lid.

gail168 mentioned NuFace.

I second finding the right plastic surgeon.

I'm following hoping that someone will chime in on an amazing product that takes care of frown lines. Is a filler the only answer?

Rose, calling myself an artist at this point would be like Donald Trump calling himself a diplomat....but I have always loved art in school and sketched whenever I found time (which was seldom during my SAHM years and even less during career years). Now that I sold my business and retired I have time to pursuit my arts I guess I would consider myself a very amateur artist.

Rose and Linelle, I have always been so busy in my business and prior to that managing one of our other businesses that I only had time to primp getting ready in the morning. The rest of my day was a whirlwind with no time for primping. I do know that up until I was about 60 I was always pleasantly surprised when I caught a glimpse of myself in a mirror. Now I just think I am looking old. with that being said though, I have a world of confidence that I didn't have when I was younger and I would rather lose my looks than my intelligence or health. So yes, beauty does come from within.

Sheilaaus, I saw somewhere that OTC hemorrhoid cream can temporarily tighten the skin and make the bags lessen.

Well, I dermarolled for the first time ever this evening and it was a strange experience! Not terribly painful but not comfortable either. In some places there's kind of a "hurts so good" thing that happens which is weird. Right afterward I did use my serum and cream which helped soothe the redness, but my face had a warm, stinging sensation for quite some time. Now it feels better but I can definitely tell something happened to it, and when I look in the mirror the skin is taut and smooth and glowing nicely. Hopefully I won't wake up in the morning puffy or looking odd, but overall it was a pretty cool thing to do and I will be using it again.

You'll be back to normal in the a.m.

You were right, dsg. Back to normal in the morning, and definitely not more beautiful as I was hoping. But at least the rolling session hadn't left any visible signs.

Wouldn't it be nice if something worked overnight?!

Wanted to post my Nuface experience - it's going back today. I did one of the 15 minute treatments on #3 (goes up to #5). It wasn't painful when using - have to use enough gel or else it does tingle, and not in a good way. Mine came with the LED for fine lines which is the main one I wanted. The light is so bright, but at least it doesn't pulsate, I can't imagine it's good for the eyes. After all, when you go to the derm for similar treatments they cover your eyes. You can't really do that with an at home product. I suffer from migraines, and I'm certain this attachment will eventually cause one. I have a slight, dull headache today but don't know if it's from the device.

I have experienced a few random pains. Nothing serious, and according to blog reviews/comments (which I trust as long as blogger/user did not receive the product for free) this is common and goes away. What I discovered today, and do not like, is some experience red or dark spots from the device and they do not go away when you stop using. One went so far as to say her dermatologist said there was nothing they can do. I have fair skin, blue eyes and I'm just not taking a chance on permanent damage.

Thanks for the update on the Nuface ---- you got me really interested in that but decided against it due to some of the vision side effects people were reporting.

Just now reading back through this thread. I definitely would not use the Nuface if there is a change of vision side effects - or migraines either. As for make-up/hair - I do mine in the morning and that's it, unless we are going out in the evening, then I will touch up. I am very light-handed with make-up and choose to accent my eyes a bit. As for lipstick - I have pale lips. I am fair skinned with dark eyes and dark hair, so a bit of color on my lips REALLY makes a difference on me. Take a look at pictures of yourself, I think they are sometimes more telling than looking in the mirror. I can look at a picture and sometimes see where I need improvement. One thing I love is lip stain. It stays on and it's not glossy or shiny. I do like creamy lipstick/gloss as long as it's not too glossy looking. I never wear "frosted" lipsticks/gloss. I was looking at a picture of someone the other day - she had on a black shirt, looked like no make-up other than maybe a little on her eyes and I wanted to badly to tell her to put on little lipstick! The black drained her face, which to me is aging or makes us look "tired". Thanks to Jen's reference to the lady with the blog, I'm trying a few new items such as cleanser and moisturizer. CeraVe. I do think they are giving me more moisture. Have yet to try the avocado oil, but plan on trying that.

I ran across this website today, but haven't gotten very far into it yet. So far, so good. I like that products are tested for 30 days by real people. Good and bad reviews are posted. Truth in Aging

Sorry you didn't like the Nuface, Allison. I didn't buy the one with the LED attachment - I only use it for the microcurrent. Did you see no improvement after the microcurrent? Maybe its one of those things, like vitamin c serum, that works for some people but not others. I love mine!

I've just returned from a second opinion from a different MD. As I was having my hair done earlier in the week, I mentioned to my longtime hairdresser what I was planning to have done, and she said, "Oh, no! You've got to see Dr. D! He's the best in town!" She has started going to him for Botox, and as she continued to cut my hair her next client walked in, and this lady also goes to Dr. D. So I went ahead and scheduled a consultation with him, and as I was sitting in his waiting room a little while ago, one of the female senior executives from my office walked in! Apparently, Dr. D is very popular.

I liked him. He spent almost an hour with me in consultation, explaining why some of the things that my dermatologist had suggested would not work well for me. He spent a good deal of time explaining what happens to underlying muscle and bone as we age. He also explained that the fillers I thought would "fix" my lower face and jowl issue would not do what I expected. He said it would fill out/smooth out that area, but it wouldn't look natural. I'd have more of a big chin than the more feminine, heart-shape with a somewhat pointed chin that I should have.

I'm still a little torn about what to do, but am leaning more towards going to Dr. D for whatever I choose than going to the other dermatologist.

My other dermatologist had sold me a jar of numbing cream for $40 to be applied an hour before I came back to him for treatment. Dr. D said, "We have numbing cream here. We don't charge you for it!'

Wow, that is interesting TR. It is so hard to know who to trust and where to go for these types of things. I think this Dr sounds like he really knows what he is talking about and plus you have seen some of his work, even though you didnt realize. Follow your gut.

TR, what did Dr. D. recommend? Is he a derm or PS?

I sold my NuFace on Ebay as it did nothing for me.

Your derm took you for a ride on the numbing cream. The first time I used the numbing cream, my derm gave me some in a sterile jar. But next time, because I am about 45 minutes (at least) from his office and because keeping it in a jar like that doesn't have a long shelf life, he gave me a prescrip for a tube of the numbing cream. I want to say my co-pay was $5.

you might very well get yet another opinion if you go for a 3rd consult with someone else!

i do think it's odd that you had to buy your own numbing cream- but, maybe they don't want the patient sitting around waiting for full numbness... i think about some of the injections that i've had into my knees and mouth- they only let the numbing gel sit on for a few minutes... maybe it's a different type of cream that takes longer to be fully effective?? but it seems like a long time to wait for a numbing product!

you might very well get yet another opinion

Especially if the second was with another dermatologist. A consult with a PS would be advisable if you're concerned about jowls.

Yeah, I'm ticked off that I was bought and sold a bill of goods with the numbing cream! They kinda acted like, "Oh, it's nothing - $30 or $40". Well, it was $40 out of my pocket, so that's something. But yes, they wanted me to apply it to my face an hour before my filler appointment to make sure I was good and numbed beforehand.

Both doctors that I saw are MDs, and both are dermatologists. I don't want to see a PS because I'm not interested in surgery at this time.

Yes, busy, you apply the cream 1 hour before a procedure. For me, it took the edge off the needles. Don't be fooled that you won't feel anything, but after having an injection prior without numbing cream, it did help.

So, what did the 2nd derm recommend??

Jen, since you've already consulted with 2 dermatologists, why not get an opinion from a plastic/cosmetic surgeon? He/she may have an entirely different perspective, but might be worth investigating. Just a thought before making a decision between the other 2.

Agree with PCakes. PC's offer options which don't involve cutting.

I didn't realize they had SOLD you numbing cream at the first doc's office. That has always been included at my plastic surgeon's office. And just because you would consult a plastic surgeon doesn't necessarily mean 'the knife'. I go to mine for injections all the time. They might suggest surgery down the road as a long-term, more permanent solution, but that has only been offered up recently as a suggestion since I've been going for over 5 years for injections and due to my age. There comes a time when injections aren't enough, and I totally get that. Like blepharoplasty (eyelid surgery). No injection is going to fix that.

Anyway, it sounds like Dr D is much more like the Dr D I go to. He definitely explained more of the facial structure and you already have two recommendations.

Dr. D said that he likes to "work from the top down." And the more I think about it, the more sense that makes. Filling from the top is going to plump those upper areas which will, in turn, have at least a slight lifting effect on some of the lower areas as well. The first doctor that I saw wanted to inject Radiesse into my lower face to fill out the area where I'm starting to get a bit of jowling, and Dr. D said that would give me a very full lower face - which is not at all what I'm after. I have no desire to look like a Moon Pie. Or John Kerry (have you seen the man lately?).

Dr. D suggested six (six! dang!) syringes of either Voluma or three of Radiesse in my cheek, temple, and area right beneath the orbital bone. He also suggested a little bit of Botox to round out a horizontal fold that is developing in my chin (common as we age), and a little bit of a "smoother" to go into the short wrinkled lines on either side of my chin (I forget which product this is, but I'm going to call his office today and actually write down the details this time). His is a much different approach than the first doctor was going to take.

Dr. D also seemed a little less ambitious with his comments about longevity of these fillers. Whereas the first doctor had said it would be pretty much 1-2 years, depending on product, Dr. D was more conservative with his estimates.

I'm still pondering what to do. It can be a bit confusing (and daunting), but it's nice that there are options out there to explore.

you might want to get a cosmetic surgeon's consult to just get their opinion... doesn't mean you have to go forward with any surgical procedures- i tend to think of them as the 'experts' when it comes to this type of thing... tho, i'm sure either dermatologist could successfully give you a few injections if they have experience doing it!

tina- i just wonder what the difference is with the numbing cream you have used that has to be applied an hour ahead of time vs the numbing products that have been used on me in the office that are effective in 5-10 minutes...

This Dr plan sounds much better. A young face is an inverted triangle, as we age it becomes a triangle.

That sure sound like a lot of filler, TR. I'm not suggesting it wouldn't accomplish what you want but it's $$$ and temporary. I wonder if a PS wouldn't offer fat transfer as an option. I believe it's longer lasting than fillers.

I thought it sounded like a lot of filler too. I've got a call in to Dr. D's office to clarify a few things.

I know nothing about fat transfer, but will do some research. Dr. D did tell me that the area on my face that is starting to slightly jowl is not as a result of saggy skin, but I have excess fat in that area and due to other parts of my face on which gravity is taking its toll, the jowling is taking on more of a prevalent look. I don't know if I should be pleased to know that it's not just saggy skin but a fat face that I have! LOL!

Sounds like a lot of fillers to start out with. PLEASE do some research on Radiesse under the eyes. It's not recommend and can form nodules that are very visible when used that way with no way to reverse. I wouldn't use a doctor who made that recommendation. I see a facial plastic surgeon for fillers and Botox. He has never pushed surgery and I am very happy with the results. I am 67 and have been seeing him for about 6 years.

I've been seeing this new treatment (Kybella) for reduction of double chins mentioned more and more lately: http://www.dallascosmeticderm.com/cosmetic-treatments/kybella.cfm

My DH is very interested in Kybella for himself and has been reading up on the procedure. I think he's convinced that's the way he'll go when he finally moves forward on getting his issue fixed.

Just wondering TR, did you decide on which Dr you were going with?

Yes, RA. I have an appointment to have some work done next week and am very much looking forward to it.

So which doc did you decide on, the first or second?

The second, Dr D. His wife (who works with him in his practice) just called me and extended a discount on price, which is super nice, and we just had a long chat about fillers and the whole procedure. I am quite impressed with his office thus far!

That's great. I am excited for you. Hope you come back and let us know how it went.