homey - to find your previous posts click on your name above to go to your profile. Change recent activity to "posts" and scroll down.

Eureka! Here's the previous revision and discussion :

Previous layout discussion

I like the door that leads directly out of the kitchen, but I'd change the swing, so that when you enter you have a choice of which path to take, without walking around the door. (You'll need room for trim on each side, which should leave room for the door knob, but you might need to address the possibility--no, inevitability-- of it's banging the cabinet--I have a wooden block behind my kitchen/DR door. Very high tech. ;) It occurs to me that the cabinet could be a base, with a hutch-style cabinet on top, set back by a few inches, with a matching piece of countertop.)

The 24" spaces beside the range should be sufficient, with prep space across the aisle on the island, but you really do need some landing space beside the sink. I have only 10" or so, beside an open doorway, and I wish I had more. On your plan, I eliminated the tall 12" cabinet beside the fridge and moved everything down. That centers the sink under the window, and makes room for a 12" trash pull-out beside the sink, still close to the island prep area.

Something to consider--I drew dish storage on the corner of the island, opening toward the sink, for ease of unloading the DW. Alternate dish storage is on the other side of the fridge, but I wouldn't have them stored much farther away from the DW. It will be easier to pick up and move one table setting's worth of dishes, than to unload the whole DW to storage 8-10' feet away. Is that cabinet already your designated dish storage?

ETA, you might have already considered this layout--turning the island and DR table. I made the cabinets in the dining area shallower, in case you need more space for the table.

Are you composting? There seems to be a walk from where you will be prepping the food to where you will be able to toss the peel etc. I would put the trash either next to or under the prep area.

I would never put a sink at the end of a run if I had a choice. This is a fairly small space I don't understand why you are putting in two sinks in the space. I would have the refrigerator on one wall, the stove oven on the other and the sink and the dishwasher in the island. Do you use your oven a lot? You do have enough space in this layout to put in counter height wall oven. Are you planning on aging in place? Not having to lean over could be a very helpful feature.

Atmoscat, I suppose you meant swapping fridge and ovens in my layout, correct? I think that if I relocate that door down the line, then I essentially need to move the ovens somewhere else because ovens next to a corner cab are not a great idea, and make the corner behind inaccessible.

Secondly, I imagine it's a good idea to keep ovens and range close. I do not move things back and forth from oven to range, but me running down the isle of sink with hot trays (from oven) intersects with someone loading the dishes or trying to access the sink.

Also regarding your suggestion of turning island through 90 deg - that will not work for me, because in that case, I will need more space for dining area and chairs. Turning the island adds 3' extra to my kitchen and everything will have to move to accommodate that. Not ideal solution, given my current constraints.

Mama_goose, I am glad you see value in the door, and point about swing is well taken. I too realized that sink should not be towards the very end of the counter, but thought to myself that I can always count on the counter above the DW as staging area. I do agree that it would be a little tight though. I will try this out on my own sink tomorrow and see how that works.

Now, my current range has 18" clearance on left end, followed by tall 36" pantry cabinet, and another wooden shelf that is 12" wide on right, followed by empty space that has no counter. To me, this has never posed a problem of not having sufficient staging area. Of course, my opposite side of my galley has a counter stretch that I can use for staging. In this plan as well I have island run at approximately the same distance. I do imagine 24" would be ok.

In my mind, the purpose of tall cabinet near cooking was to have an enclosed space to hang pots and pans. My current set up is a total hack, looks atrocious, but is VERY functional. Here's how (I am taking this picture in dim light, but you get the idea).

(What you see next to the toaster is my 18" span of landing space to the left of my range).

So I was trying to replicate that, behind the doors, in my kitchen. I would prefer that this be near cooking and not near dining so I do not walk a lot to just collect these items. That said, this is my wishlist, and this items can go if needed. I can store pots in drawers. If I can achieve either hiding appliances or hiding pots, I would be ok, doing both will be fantastic!

Also, mama_goose, I am trying to make sure that my refrigerator does not go too far away from my island coz it would be good to have that as staging area for stuff coming out of the refrigerator.

Practigal: One of my basic goals was to avoid a large sink in the island. I want to use my island as an un-inhibited prep space and I do need that space. I do not want to lose 32" in the center to accommodate a sink. This was discussed back in my earlier revision, and that is why, I compromised on a 15" prep sink.

Thanks for comments so far, looking forward to more.

Practigal - regarding ovens: I am planning on a R/O. However, my family size is small (1 kid) and therefore currently I have a Breville that serves as our go-to oven. In my new layout, my "wall ovens" refer to microwave and compact convection. I know they come as one body, but I use both parallelly, therefore I will need two separate ovens. Hope this clarifies.

Do you need 3-4 seats at the island? If you turn the island, and put the small sink on the left corner, you could make the island shorter (in length), leaving more room for the DR table. It might be worth losing some real estate on the island to keep it from being a barrier between the fridge and range. A bonus is that anyone sitting at the island has a view of the window, not the range hood.

You could still have your pots&pans storage in the tall cabinet by the back door--the top would just be maybe 20" deep, rather than 24" (to accommodate the door knob).

mama_goose, yes I do need 4 seats in the island. This great room space is for entertaining, and I have worked in a kitchen for years together, alone, so my main goal in designing this kitchen is to make it more social. 3 seats will be needed for us (family), and I can use four when entertaining.

Also, one clarification: this is not a forever house. I would want my forever house to be 1 story. Timespan for this house is next 10 years or so. We will likely move when DD goes to college.

In this plan, the island is untouched, but the door is moved to the location atmoscat suggested. The fridge, however is moved next to the pantry, to make an efficient work zone. (I realize it was there before, but I haven't read your previous thread.) It's not as close to the dining area, but the range is more protected from through traffic, and traffic from the exterior door is routed between the kitchen and DR. Groceries can be dropped on the island and conveniently loaded into the fridge and pantry. Trade-off is an UC oven, with a MW on a shelf beside the fridge, but you'll have a nice secondary prep area between the sink and range--another of atmoscat's ideas.

Ok, it seems to me from the discussion so far:

- Door is taking away valuable space

- Counter span does not have sufficient prep space, and many layouts suggested adding a corner cab. This will take away my wall of ovens and therefore I will need to relocate it someplace else. This wall could have 2 compact sized ovens, if possible then 2 compact sized and one full size oven.

So I realized that the walk in pantry is not making a job easier. It's limiting options. So I am taking it away in my revision (posted at the end of this post).

Instead, adding vertical, 48" cabinet space here. Note that this can be up to 48". Now, I have two options for my appliances:

- Inside the vertical cabinet, as shown in following image:

Magnificent Larder Kitchen · More Info

Another possibility is in the corner:

Rosenwald House · More Info

warrandyte · More Info

If I decide to go with corner garage, then I can use the vertical cabinet for putting in oven wall plus a storage area. So, with that possibility, I drew the following layout. Completely removed the door to the side yard.

Now, I suppose that the pantry entrance is not holding the rest of the layout hostage. Does this make this more functional?

Blue lines=walls, Red lines=windows, Brown: cabinetry

What do you think?

By the way, Mama_goose, I think I will be able to keep a tiny trash can under the sink and use "trash" under sink as compost bin. I plan to prep on my island.

I am seeing one improvement already here: swapping Range/Oven and Oven/MW wall to make Oven/MW in line with tall cab and relocating the range to leave space around it. Let me draw it and I will post improved layout by tomorrow. (If I am headed down a wrong direction, then let me know!!)

TIA.

I'm sorry to see the door disappear--I love the thought of walking right out into a sunny garden, or a vine covered arbor. OK, I'm over it. ;)

Do you mean move the oven/mw over against the tall 48" cabinet? I think that's a good decision--both tall elements will be together, and there will be more counter between the sink and range.

I posted a pic of this cute little door mounted can on another thread:

That trash can is super cute. I make very little trash - most goes to compost and recycle. So this type of container would be useful to me.

Sorry for not being clear earlier. My suggestion if you moved or removed the door was to move the oven stack over next to the pantry door (the far left of the range run). It sounds like that's what you're planning in your next revision. I think it's a good idea because then the counter between sink and range is not interrupted by something tall. I think you could still keep the walk in pantry if you want to, although the 48" tall cab would work too. Both seem to take up about the same amount of space on that wall.

Here is the new revision of layout. If everyone feels strongly for the one with pantry, then we will bring that into consideration, but currently it seems to me that I will not be able to store most of my wanted stuff underneath venting appliances.

Anyway. Here it is:

Some notes:

1. Range can be moved 12" to the right; right side has 36". This move will concentrate free space towards corner, which may be more useful, but I cannot say for sure. Would love to hear feedback.

Mama_goose: One of the cabinets near the refrigerator can be sacrificed for a door. I know what you mean :-) Now to access side yard I will have to leave from the sliding door to the right of the dining area, it's not convenient. So I may introduce it if it turns out that I have sufficient storage with door added.

Inviting comments/inputs. Please do not hold back - if you think I am going from frying pan to fire, please tell me!

TIA

Ooops, forgot to draw prep sink. No intention to take it out. It's very much there, just invisible :-) Please assume it's staying. Sorry for the inconvenience!!

I'm not envisioning any good layout tips for you. You have some great help already! I was just wondering if you could change the window on the other side of the dining table to doors to have the outside access you need.

And I would recommend you google YuckChuck (or Yuk Chuck or similar spelling). One of the best things I purchased for composting. I also generate very little actual food garbage and other trash so I ordered a second one for trash. They look similar to the one Mama Goose posted but the lid seals, yet opens quite easily, which keeps any smells contained until you empty it. And it easily lifts off the bracket to carry it someplace to empty and clean it. I absolutely love it.

Sorry if I missed this somewhere, the kitchen/dining space is ~ 16'x22'?

In your drawings, what does the dashed line represent?

Hi Oaktown, glad you are here. I found your inputs on my Master BR layout very helpful. Yes the overall space is 16'x22'. Dashed line was to represent 42" from the edge of the island, and it was more for the sake of my own comfort since I wanted to make sure I do not push appliances too much into the "dining" areas (except dish storage, glasses and serveware).

Hi funky, yes it's a possibility to make the window into a sliding door or a door followed by stacked picture windows. If we do not get a chance to put a door through the actual side wall, then that would be my next attempt.

Bump bump!! I know everyone is thinking about my plan, but I cannot wait to hear!! :-)

I might have missed it, but what are you planning to store in the 12" tall cabinet beside the fridge? Ironing board? ;)

It seems that for less cost than a pull-out, you could add that space into the other upper and base cabinets in the DR, or my preference--move everything down 12", and add an upper and base (cooky sheets/cutting boards?) to the left of the sink, to give you a little more room in the corner. The fridge will still be close enough to the island to use it for landing space, but you could move the island out another 6", to make the aisle 48".

mama_goose, in my current kitchen I have an 8" cabinet that hosts my broom, mop and small brush + receptacles, along with sponges, trash bags etc. I am planning the same thing for new kitchen, with slightly generous allocation of 12".

I was a bit shy about admitting it, but I'd like a separate mop and broom for the kitchen to quickly clean the spills etc. I have not found a better option anywhere else, but if I do then I am open to considering it.

Regarding your suggestion of cookie sheets etc. : I suppose that my oven wall will have storage for that. If not, then the 48" cabs are a great place to store it, because anyway I will need to store pots/pans or sealed/canned food near my appliance counter.

By the way I found this picture containing 3 ovens on one wall; and they look quite fine to me. Does anyone recognize the brand?

Presidio · More Info

Your oven preference is range, micro, + compact convection and micro needs to be in the main kitchen? Would you consider a 48" range + micro?

What is in the exterior closet and can it be moved and the space used in the kitchen? What is under the stair landing? What is the height under the landing (are the two stair runs identical)?

Is there enough room to put your side yard access door in the exterior closet area and still run the counter all the way to the wall, or are the stairs in the way?

Oak town, By exterior closet, do you mean the closet that's outside the "lower" wall of the kitchen in the plan? (In my version there's FAU's shown there but on the above plan I posted, they are not shown as such, but that closet is supposed to contain FAU's for two floors). I discussed that with my architect for alternative locations and it was decided that this current location is pretty much the best. By code, we cannot put it under stairs or landing. :( and we are not ready to put it on the roof coz we may possibly have a deck there. Also DH does not want them inside.

To answer your other questions:

- under stair landing is storage accessible from outside. I think it will be ~ 5ft high -- but if needed this space can be claimed by the kitchen or from inside.

- under the stairs is storage accessible from the main hallway that connects the great room with entry. I had it converted to a pantry but took it out (in my revisions) because I realized that it was not giving me additional storage but was wasting it away. So I decided to leave the counter cabinet separate from the pantry.

- The new under-stairs storage will be accessed from the hallway. So if I were to use it for kitchen purposes, I'd turn around the corner of (currently drawn) 48" cabinet and then access it. It's not super convenient but not entirely inconvenient either. However, I am open to using that for kitchen if I completely run out of space in the main kitchen.

- 48' range is a bit much for me. I do not need so many burners and cooktop grill etc. I have allocated 36" but may actually get a 30". Will decide soon based on my trip to appliance store. Also micro is my most used item so I would prefer it to be at a more ergonomic height.

- I need a compact convection and a micro in addition to regular sized oven and thought of getting wall combo to primarily make space planning more functional. In fact, I use compact convection way more than large oven due to my family size (2 adults, 1 kid, and not gonna change).

- mama goose, the tall 12" cabinet can go if needed. I am much more interested in keeping kitchen related items first.

Hope I answered all the questions.

Hi homey_bird,

I looked at all of your various iterations and of those I prefer the architect's sketch in your original post 1/5/16 -- though I would put the DW on the other side of the sink, and have some change in the cabinet run to differentiate the dining space from the kitchen space. For me the biggest drawback to that configuration is that it feels to me that the kitchen is "leaking into" the dining space.

I'm confident that you would be able to make it work nicely with the L+island, so I'm going to throw out another couple of totally different ideas just as food for thought.

1) Embrace the eat-in kitchen. Make the whole space the kitchen. Ditch the island and you can have a nice long 9' table running parallel to the long wall. Or you could have 2 identical 5' tables -- pushed together for large group seating or turned separately with one as a work/crafting table and the other as your eating table. This would give you flexibility and emphasize the spaciousness of the room. [Our kitchen is 16'x21' with no island and an 8' table in the center, so I'm a bit biased.]

2) They're two separate spaces. Use a peninsula backed with taller storage in the dining area to separate the two spaces. This would give you a way to hide your small appliances. I will link photos of the kitchen/dining of Julie Carlson (Remodelista) as an example -- I think it looks great and is highly functional, but probably not ideal for multiple cooks.

Julie Carlson's kitchen/dining/great room

Good luck!

Oaktown, thanks a lot for your suggestions. And really appreciate your ideas on making it work - I enjoyed your completely out of box take on my spaces.

You correctly guessed that my requirement of hiding small appliances out of plain sight is the main requirement, that is driving all revisions. I thought a 48" tall cab does take care of that. To suggest radical changes, you must see some real drawbacks to this one. Can you please elaborate on those? That will help me understand the rationale behind your suggestions.

By the way, the link you posted is gorgeous! Great combo of stone and wood.

TIA!!

Nah, I think the L+island+tall cabs is fine, and I can't think of any meaningful tweaks so just wanted to offer some other ideas.

I'm not a counter minimalist, because it's not realistic in our house. Our coffee maker, toaster/smart oven, rice cooker sit out. I keep clearing off the counter and things keep coming back and spawning new stuff! If we had a tall cabinet for hiding small appliances it never would be closed and the doors would be in the way :-P

We do have the luxury of a pantry nook where the rice cooker lives so it is out of sight but easy to use in place (I originally thought your furnace location might be a good spot for something like that, before you explained it was the furnace).

Will you still have easy access to a broom/mop closet elsewhere--close to a sink? After your second post about the 12" tall cabinet, I realized that I don't think the area between the kitchen and DR is a good place for mops and cleaning supplies, but that's just my prejudice. I'd rather have dish/serving related items there, or even art/homework supplies for the kids, but whatever works best for you is what you should do.

Just don't do this for the oven stack. ;)

Mama_goose, LOL! Yes that oven stack will not work for me unless I grow more. Currently at 5'4" I need them lower! Unbelievable that this exists in *real* kitchen, but may be a basketball league player lives there!!

And regarding the comment on broom closet: I think that's a good location for me, because that's the one place where DH and DD will not steal it for sweeping other areas of the house (like I said, I want a separate cleaning set for kitchen and dining).

Hi Everyone, found two great pics during my aimless wandering on the internet. Just wanted to share!! Let me know if any comments on the visual of the kitchen in #2.

- #1: this could be my inspiration for my island (I have 2-sided seating and am trying for a waterfall edge look. However, mine will likely have a bit more color).

- #2: This is quite similar to my kitchen layout (current). Missing are tall cabs to the left of ovens and in this photo, DW and sink are swapped. However, it even has a prep sink in the island exactly where I imagine it!