Opinions on exterior trim sizes and layouts, show me yours
More trim questions/opinions:
I tried to draw some trim to scale. In the left gable, there are 3 different sizes of trim/crossheads. (4" sides, 10" top; 5" sides, 12" top, 6" sides, 15" top). Which of those do you like best? (sorry if terminology in the rendering is wrong)
In the right gable there are different combinations of shutters overlapping the trim (which I think is traditional) or shutters beyond trim, and with a sill and no trim board below (I think thats traditional from reading around here) or with a sill and trim board below. I left shutters on some windows and not on some as we are undecided, but we will have them on all the single windows or none of them.
What do you do on the center window above the door? Does it get a sill even though it is non operable?
We aren't going to do shutters or the crossheads on the side and back elevations- would you do 4" trim all around those windows or something with a thicker trim on top (say 4" around and 6" top)? Do we still need sills? We are trying to save some money but we also want it to look decent.
How wide trim do you do around garage doors? Do you match the corner trim or the window trim?
We are hoping to sign the siding guy tomorrow but we have to tell him all of the trim details so trying to make some final decisions. I thought he would guide us but looks like we have to specify everything. Thanks for help and opinions!
Please post pictures of your own trim if you want! I would love to see some pictures
Comments (37)
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Give me your opinion on this houseplan
Comments (12)Finally! Someone is building a nice, "boring" plan with a good use of space and access to various rooms. Good for you! A couple of comments (of course!) 1. Ditch the fireplace in the MBR, romantic but will just be used as a clothes hamper... 2. Make sure the "future rec room" is well insulated (floor over garage and walls) since it looks like it will be constantly used as a path from kitchen to bedrooms. Or wall off the stairway path from the rec room, so you don't have to heat and light the rec room all the time. 3. Might increase the size of the pantry into the garage storage space. 4. Don't wall off the garage storage space from the rest of the garage- it's cute, but will just make it hard to wrestle stuff in and out of that area. 5. You might put a wall and door from the corner of the utility room to the corner of the back stairs, to seperate the side door, garage door, and utility room from the kitchen, creating a "back foyer", and preventing cold air from blasting into the kitchen. 6. You could move the family room fireplace to the outside corner of the room, leaving the wall space available for normal height TV placement. I've also seen houses that put it where the picture window is, but that stinks since it ruins the nice view. 7. Bravo on using the space over the family room. Another possibility would be to change the His/Her wardrobe to a bathroom for BR#3, and expand the master BR into the space over the family room, including a couple of big walk in closets (one his, one hers....seperate wardrobes help with family calm...). 8. Nit-picking, but you might look at the flow from the living room to the family room, it seems a little odd that it looks like it has an open hallway from the family room and then a closable door into the LR, not sure why the door. (maybe for sound blocking?) If a door, should be a wide one for visual and flow. 9. "Entertainment center" seems useless for a TV and such, but maybe a good place for stereo and storing vids and music. 10. I agree with folks on leaving a full bath downstairs for illness/handicap issues, and making doors and hallway access wider into the bath and into the whole area. 11. Do you really need an entrance from the LR to the stoop? That means stuff will get tracked onto the LR rug. It might be nicer to just put another big window there and have an L shaped window seat in that corner. (If you have dogs, they LOVE having a window seat. Trust me.) If you want a wide/double door, put it in the breakfast area. 12. Why not put a washer/dryer on both floors? An up/down compact in the utility room for first floor stuff, and a full set on the 2nd? That would be a "touch of luxury" that you will actually use, and would get a LOT of good comments, for not a lot of extra expense. 13. Don't ignore the space under the stairs! Have it finished with access doors or shelves or such, storage space is valuable! But overall it's a very nice plan, very "livable", just needs a "few tweeks" to make it a great plan!...See MoreBack for Layout Input -your opinions are needed
Comments (11)If the windows cannot change and it's important to you that the sink be centered and under the middle window, then the DW will not fit on the other side. Wanting it centered is not a bad thing, it's just something that means more to some than others. We all have things that are important and are worth some compromises. FWIW, my DH was very insistent our main/cleanup sink be centered in front of our bay window...and I think I agree with him, although if it meant sacrificing function I may not have. In your case, if you put a prep sink & a second trash in the island, I think it can be an acceptable compromise since you have wide aisles. Yes, there is a "danger" of backing into an open DW when working at the island, but with... wide aisles (important here) the fact that the cooktop is away from the DW (so you aren't moving toward the DW when going to the cooktop) it looks like you have approx 36" b/w the open DW and the edge of a prep sink (if the prep sink is in the left 18" space on the islands), leaving you with enough room to work at the island w/o the DW getting in the way ...I don't think it will be that much of an issue. Since most trash & recycling occur while prepping & cooking, I would be sure to make the trash in the island a double-bin pullout. If you don't recycle much or don't mind walking the recyclables over to the other side of the kitchen, you might be able to get away with a single trash bin in the island, but I don't recommend it. The one by the cleanup sink could be a 12" or 15" single-bin trash-only pullout, but then it would affect the "centering" of the sink under the window! BTW...it helps if draw in the open door...most DW doors are 27" tall, so draw in a 27"tall x 24"wide rectangle to show where it opens into the aisle...that will tell you how much space there is b/w the open door and the island for walking past the open DW as well as how much room b/w the door and the prep sink in the island. (Line the "bottom" of the DW door with the edge of the DW square, not the countertop edge b/c the DW door opens from the DW, not the counter.) Our DW opens partially into a 47" aisle and there's plenty of room to walk by it. It's partially b/w the end of the peninsula & counter on the other side and we've never had a "roadblock" when the DW was open. So, go and draw in the open DW door and, while you're at it, do the same for the open refrigerator, MW drawer, ovens, and trash pullouts. Yes, the MW could face the cooktop. Since it's a cooktop and not a range, there won't be an open oven door to worry about being in conflict w/an open MW drawer. My MW drawer is the previous model (i.e., not one of the new, bigger ones) and opens approx 16" past the countertop. So it would stick out 16" into the aisle. If the aisle is 48" wide (or even 45" accounting for counter overhang on both sides), that leaves you with a 29" (45" - 16") walkway b/w the open MW and the cooktop...plenty of room to walk by. And, since MWs aren't open for very long, I don't think the fact that it's open while someone is working at the cooktop will pose a problem either. I do like the crown around the bottom of the hood....See MoreShow Me Yours! What Does Your TV Sit On?
Comments (57)Mine is a totally different style than what you are looking for but I'm sharing the picture because it's a great company to turn to for quality custom units. We looked at Hooker, and The Custom Shoppe was the same concept, but the quality was so much better. Here is ours (with the pocket doors open): http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=17785607&uid=2658828 We ultimately needed a custom unit because of the narrow size of that TV niche. Everything readily available was too wide, and I didn't want a built-in. We also specifically needed pocket doors because right to the right of the niche is a hallway, which would be blocked by regular doors. The link below is to the Custom Shoppe. They can make any size, color, style, etc. that you want. Here is a link that might be useful: The Custom Shoppe...See Morekitchen design-- please give me your opinion
Comments (11)You don't have enough room for that island in your space. As others have pointed out, it's too big. You do not have room for seating at the island + the table - you need at least 54" (and 60" is much better) b/w the island counter and the table edge. I speak from experience - I have 48" b/c of a mistake I made and it is not enough - I need another foot! Do you really need three seating areas? Island, Nook, and DR....that's a lot of seating! Your Nook is a bit narrow - can you still modify the exterior walls? It would be nice to have wider aisles around the table - especially if you plan a round table. In some respects, a round table takes up more space than a rectangular table. To accommodate more people, a round table must be deeper - you'll probably need a 42" wide round table by the time your children reach the pre-teen years. It would be nice to be able to have 42" of aisle space on the "top", left, and right sides of the table in the Nook. I put in a rectangular table b/c of the need for a wider aisle b/w the table and island. If you want a round table, I suggest making the Nook at least 6" deeper. I think the current width would be fine if you have a 42" round table. [Aisle recommendations: 36" to edge past diner and 44" to walk past diner.] Are you measuring aisles counter-to-counter or cabinet-to-cabinet? Cabinets, without doors, are 24" deep (and that's how most are represented in designs - without doors). Counters are 25.5" deep. If you're measuring cabinet-too-cabinet, then your aisles are 3" narrower than you show. Personally, I don't like cleanup sinks or ranges/cooktops in an island - they both take far too much space away from the island and negate the best thing about islands (and peninsulas) - that wonderful expanse of uninterrupted workspace (except, perhaps, for a prep sink). (There's also the safety issue for ranges/cooktops if your island isn't at least 48" deep, but you aren't showing one in the island, so no need to continue with that discussion.) Cooking Zones should be the most protected zone in the kitchen - you will be dealing with hot items when cooking and moving around with boiling water, etc. The last thing you want is traffic getting in your way! (You don't want to trip over a child or run into someone coming into the kitchen to raid the refrigerator or get a drink while carrying a pot of boiling water to the sink to drain!) So, what do I recommend? Consider changing the island to a rectangular island. It will fit better in your space and it will give you room for seating at the island as well as decent aisles in general. Consider moving the cleanup sink, DW, and Cleanup Zone to the "bottom" wall Consider moving the Cooking Zone and range to the left wall Consider adding a prep sink (smaller than a cleanup sink) to the island making the island the Prep Zone Getting rid of the small wall to the right of the "bottom" wall to gain 4.5" and allow you to.... Move the refrigerator to the bottom wall so it's on the perimeter of the kitchen and easily accessible from the FR for snackers to access without those snackers getting in the way of those working in the kitchen. Is that bottom area 11'1" like the "nook"? A possibility: Details of the layout above: Overall: It separates the Cleanup Zone from the Prep and Cooking Zones - something to strive for b/c it allows several tasks to be going on at the same time, it doesn't mix the dirty dishes with the prep and cooking space, and it allows you to separate the prepping and cooking storage from the dish storage. This separation of storage allows you to easily store items at their point of use - no overlapping and people getting in each others way! It reduces zone-crossing - having to cross another work zone to go to/from appliances (especially the refrigerator) and dish storage Aisle widths are much better for a multi-worker kitchen and for seating at both the island and the table (no more back-to-back seats!) Cleanup Zone: Moved to the "bottom" wall Deeper counters as well as deeper storage (30" deep counters, 27" deep base cabs, 15" deep uppers). This gives a lot of storage for dishes, glasses, silverware, etc. as well as space for prepping as a Secondary (or Tertiary) Prep Zone. Wider aisles to accommodate traffic Single-bowl 30" sink base with a 27" to 29" wide sink - plenty big enough for the vast majority of needs. (There's a prep sink in the island for a "second" bowl...more later) Dish storage (as well as glasses, silverware, etc.) is right where the DW is, so unloading and putting the dishes away is easy! Dish storage is placed such that it's easy to get to from the Nook as well as the DR - both w/o crossing into the Prep or Cooking Zones. Refrigerator: Has been moved to the bottom wall - it's not quite on the perimeter, but it's located so it's accessible from the Nook, DR, and FR, w/o cutting through the Cooking Zone or zone-crossing when prepping or cooking. Because of the deeper Cleanup Zone counters, it looks built-in and does not look like a "standard" refrigerator. The other things that make it look built-in are the finished end panels on either side and the full-depth cabinet above the refrigerator (it's either 27" or so deep or it's 24" deep and pulled forward so it's flush with the refrigerator carcass (box) Prep Zone: Prep Zone is in the island. Locating the Prep Zone in the island allows you to visit with guests, help children with homework, or watch the TV in the FR while prepping. Since 70% or more of the time working in the kitchen is spent prepping, it makes the most sense to have the Prep Zone in the most desirable spot. There's no conflict b/w the Cleanup and Prep Zones - no fighting for sink space, counter space, or a place to stand! Prep Zone is directly across from the Cooking Zone - making the prep sink handy for both zones. The aisle b/w the range wall and the island is 48" - ideal for when your family starts helping more - you'll be able to have several people working in the Cooking Zone and in the Prep Zone at the same time. The Prep Zone is protected from traffic. While it's true that the Cooking Zone is the most important zone to protect from traffic, the Prep Zone comes in a close second. You're using knives, etc.... There is a prep sink in the island to provide water for the various prepping tasks that require it. A trash pullout is in the island for the trash and recyclables generated while prepping There's a 12" cabinet for cutting boards - placed right where you need it! There are 45 inches of prep space on the right side of the sink and 20" on the left side (more for landing space,though). The refrigerator is placed such that you can unload your ingredients straight from the refrigerator onto the island where they're needed without having to unload in one place and pick them up again and carry them to your Prep Zone. Island: The island has plenty of storage for both often used as well as seldom used items - in addition to the storage in the Cooking Zone and Pantry. Seating at the island will accommodate all four of you (although, I think the table is better when you're all together for a meal). The seating overhangs are sufficient for all - one seat even has a deeper overhang for someone who is tall or has long legs. So many people skimp on seating overhang that it becomes uncomfortable for average or tall people to sit for very long (unless you enjoy "straddling" the cabinets or leaning way over to reach the counter - I don't, but YMMV). Orientation of the island allows you to interact with others both in the kitchen as well as the FR - you're facing the "action". Cooking Zone: The Cooking Zone is now protected from through-traffic as well as incidental traffic in the kitchen. Traffic will go around the Cooking Zone - whether someone needs to use the MW, wants to get into the refrigerator, or wants to cleanup the kitchen (or DR or Nook). There is plenty of room on either side of the range for both workspace and landing space. You should have at least 24" on each side. The MW is in the Cooking Zone but on the periphery so you can easily use it while prepping or cooking. Outsiders can also use it w/o getting in the way of the cook (or the person prepping). The MW is near a water source (prep sink) - most MWing requires water be added. The MW is near the trash for the easy disposal of the wrappings - again, w/o getting in anyone elses way. There's a 12" cabinet for tray storage - cookie sheets, cooling racks, roaster pans, etc. Note there is an 18" trash pullout in the Prep Zone and near the Cooking Zone as well as one (21") in the Cleanup Zone. The most important place for a trash pullout is in the Prep Zone and near the Cooking Zone. Far more trash and recyclables are generated while prepping and cooking than any other task - and for longer periods of time (and more often). If you only want one, then consider moving the 18" one down to the other end of the island so it's somewhat close to the Cleanup Zone - but don't remove it from the Prep Zone. Even the 21" one is too remote to be of much use during prepping and it's even worse for cooking. I think you have plenty of space to accommodate two trash pullouts - but it's up to you. 54" b/w the table and island. There is no longer direct competition for floor/aisle space since there are no back-to-back seats (island seat is farther to the left than table seats), so 54" is fine. [Edited to add detailed explanation of layout[ This post was edited by buehl on Sat, Jul 20, 13 at 11:04...See More
sarahbr2
8 years agosarahbr2
8 years ago
cpartist
8 years agoUser
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoOaktown
8 years agoUser
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoUser
8 years agoeosinophil
8 years agoUser
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agosarahbr2
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agosarahbr2
8 years agoHere is garage side elevation (I didn't draw trim on yet)...oh and we are not doing the stone, I think it will just be brushed concrete (stone is expensive!)
User
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoThe Andersen 400 Tilt Wash is one of the few nail-fin windows that has a traditional sill profile so it doesn't need a sub-sill or any trim added at the bottom of the window.
The window has an adequate slope to the sill, a nice big drip grove and a 3/8" notch for siding to slide up into but, like a traditional window sill, the notch is designed for siding NOT a trim board. Adding a trim board under a window sill as if it were an interior stool and apron is a modern corruption of a traditional double-hung window so you should avoid it.
Here is what an Andersen 400 Tilt Wash sill looks like installed:
I don't know where the reveal is but a frieze is a continuous horizontal board under the cornice (roof overhang) which in this case looks to be boxed. There is usually a crown or bed molding where the frieze meets the soffit.
Make the installer draw what he is proposing. I get the impression he has a pretty fuzzy idea of traditional Colonial Revival detailing. Be glad he is asking for guidance and make it clear what you want him to do.
sarahbr2 thanked Usercpartist
8 years agosarahbr2
8 years agoCPartist- mighty anvil and Renovator8 are the same person. He's had a few other names too. Hoping he is well as I haven't seen him either.
JDS- Thanks. Would it look weird with no sill or trim or anything below? I think with the siding abutting the window it might look bizarre. Here is a pic of a window. I think what you are saying about a sub-sill sounds right. That would still give us just a little white under the window for aesthetics, and something for the jamb trim to rest on. What would a sub sill look like? Is it flush like a trim board or does it extend like a sill? I can tell him to make this an notch it. I agree he doesn't know about trim styles or shutters which is why I have to specify everything. It sounds like if I specify, he will do whatever but I have to make sure I figure out what to tell him and how to convey it all.
FYI here are windows in the neighborhood as a comparison. I do not want to do mine this way but this is what the norm is.
and I saw this where the shutters are hinged and look better (yes I know they are not proportional)
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8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoYou should install a cellular PVC sub-sill for any of these reasons:
1) The sill profile is not steep enough to quickly shed water and/or there is no drip or siding notch under the sill overhang so there is a greater risk of water penetration. (this is not the case with the Andersen 400 but it is for Marvin, Pella, JeldWen, etc. aluminum clad wood windows)
2) You want "sill horns" for a more historic window appearance instead of a modern "picture frame" appearance popular with builders and developers. (note: flat trim under a window sill is not a "sub-sill")
3) You want a thicker sill for a more historic window appearance instead of the typically thin ones of modern nail-fin windows (the Andersen 400 sill nose is about 1" and the sill of Marvin, Pella, JeldWen, etc. aluminum clad windows is about 1/2" .... An historic sill nose would be 1 1/2" thick or larger.)
Here is a Marvin ultimate DH with a historic factory made cellular PVC sub-sill added below the sill with sill horns:
Another thing to be aware of is that an Andersen 400 has a thick frame that adds about 5/8" to the apparent width of the casing trim so a 3 1/2" wide trim will appear to be 4 1/8" wide. The frame also stands about 1/2" proud of standard 3/4" thick casing trim. If you like that strong shadow line that's fine; if you don't, try a thicker 5/4" casing trim (5/4" is actually 1" thick)
sarahbr2 thanked Usersarahbr2
8 years agoUser
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoI would be skeptical of anything the installer makes since he clearly doesn't understand the purpose of a projecting sub-sill. Azek and CertainTeed make a cellular PVC sub-sill they both call an "Historic Sill". Either should work fine because they have a drip groove as well as a notch for the siding. Calling it a sill instead of a sub-sill is a source of confusion so make it clear what you mean with a detail and explain that it must be long enough to reach the outside edges of the jamb trim.
For a crossband pediment head trim you will be better off using Azek (see below). Unless CertainTeed provides dimensioned details of their historic sill I would use Azek for that too.
sarahbr2 thanked Usersarahbr2
8 years agoThanks so much JDS and others. I just wrote to the guy to ask some questions and mention this azek option. I did a slightly updated rendering based on the trim sizes. I don't know if it is better to post here or start a new thread but we are now thinking of going with the color plus hardi so we would have to pick a color now. My husband sees this as a minor thing but I am overwhelmed as that is a major decision to me. We are currently thinking blue or grey (I am actually kind of liking the countrylane red but it would absolutely not go with the neighborhood we live in). The houses on each side of us are Iron gray and light mist (basically a very dark gray and a light almost bluish gray). Since I don't think a link would work since some are 'local' colors, here are some pictures (I can try them on the rendering but the colors never match perfectly). The deep ocean, evening and booth bay are blues, the aged pewter, gray slate, night gray are the gray/neutrals we are thinking about. If you think some color we are not even considering would be great, feel free to let me know.
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sarahbr2
8 years agoThanks JDS that's very helpful. I was actually curious how that worked since you said the siding went right into the sill. Now I see how the sub-sill can go over that.
Thanks scone911- that's actually a great idea to compare the roof too and do it outside at the site. The only problem is, the siding samples are so tiny! I have a lot of trouble visualizing them so small. Roof is timberline ultra HD in charcoal (it's basically black).
treehuggergirl
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoscone911
8 years agosarahbr2
8 years agoIf anyone if following this, siding is going on. The siding itself looks good (we went with pre-painted booth bay blue). But I am not thrilled with the window trim. The header looks too thin. I wanted it to look heavier than the sides and bottom but form a distance, it looks the same size. I have expressed my concern with the contractor and he keeps telling me, let me finish and then we can change if you still don't like it. His argument is that they did it smaller because the window headers under the porch don't have the room to be bigger and this looked nicer, consistent. However, the windows under the porch already have a different style header since he used the crown to run into them. Thoughts?
Also, I do not like the crown. I thought it would be much thicker. This is hardly noticeable (under the porch and under the roofline in the pics). I really don't like that in the cornice returns have the trim on the angled part. He is telling me it has to since the hardi cannot abut shingles. If the crown were thicker I think this would be less noticeable since it would run into the returns. But as it is, I am not too happy. What do you all think?
Janet Kennedy
2 years agolast modified: 2 years ago
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