Well, that's the standard depth for ikea cabinets now, so all you'd have to do is get yourself to an ikea and play around in one of their display kitchens to try it out.

Have you thought about doing 18" on one side and 36" on the other, with 36" over the range?

If it's balance you're after not space (in an open way, not extra storage) then I revise my answer to 1. Howeverrrrrr, now you've given option 4 and said you'd use those uppers for glasses and cups etc so you do need them and the installers have confidence about installing, I'd defo go for option 4. I think the no filler will look better And as long as the top cupboards are centred over the base cupboards ( halve the total width of base and same again for uppers, then put centre line of top cupboards over centre line of base cupboards) then I reckon you will have your symmetry. It's important to me to so totally understand.

Decoranna, probably at some point I did - but at this point I want to limit any tweaking to those three the upper cabinets. I don't want to change the lower configuration, as I like it and we're almost finished with rough-in.

Writersblock, yes, I think you are right. I haven't seen any online comment about the 15" cabinets being a problem, and I've been reading threads related to Ikea installation here and elsewhere for months. The restriction doesn't really make sense to me either. But when I saw the specification in the manual for 13" (or less) deep uppers (I was re-reading them all after we took delivery on the appliances), My initial impulse was to panic and pull out my correction pen.

GE customer service is almost nonsensical in their insistence of only quoting official literature back; they don't want to say an installation is "approved" if it is not specifically sanctioned by the diagram. So they'll tell me that I can upper cabinets up to 13" deep directly next to the range, because this is what the one picture says; for example, I couldn't get them to confirm that I can install 15" uppers an additional 3" or 6" away left and right. But of course at that distance, it must be OK. Everyone and their cousin has already done this.

In any case, I think the experienced Ikea installers are probably a good guide to what works. As they've also been installing these kitchens in my area, that means a portion of these kitchens must have pulled permits and passed local inspections. I can run the question by my GC too.

Now that I'm high on morning coffee, I think our best options are two. One is to keep things as-is - I have liked the glass uppers for a long time. If we don't have to modify the existing plan, we might as well stay on course.

The other option would be to use the latest mental exercise as an occasion to reconsider the possibility of switching to no upper cabinets. DH has had that preference for a long time, but always conceded to my desire to have a few upper cabinets.

Oh, in case someone reads this thread later while trying to figure out their ikea cabinet options -

I missed this comment bbtrix made yesterday:

"Does IKEA still carry the 12" glass shelves?"

In my rush to create an alternative plan, I thought only about hacking the wooden boxes; I spaced the fact the glass uppers look best with glass shelves. So far as I know, no, there are not 12" glass shelves at Ikea any longer. So trimming down the glass uppers would have been a bad idea, although it might be possible to find little glass shelves from an alternative source.

I would not worry about that. Any glass shop can make glass shelves fairly reasonably, for not much more than ikea charges. So if you really wanted to go through the hassle of cutting down the cabinets that wouldn't be a major issue.

I cut down one of my 36" uppers to a 30". I called the glass shop in my area to have them cut the tempered glass down or make custom shelves and it was cost prohibitive. It depends on where you live.

I'd try another shop, bbtrix. You'll usually get the best prices on household stuff (shelves, table tops, shower enclosures) from the places that advertise for auto glass. They all do everything, really.

I called all the shops in my rural area and I wouldn't pay $50 to have a $12 shelf cut. Ikea's prices just couldn't be beat. I paid $10 each for 30" shelves. I'm just saying that I was very surprised to find it cost prohibitive to have it done locally and I assumed it wouldn't be an issue.

That's interesting, bbtrix. Around here the average was about 4 shelves for $50, for a 30" cabinet, when I checked about a year and a half ago. Huh.

EDIT It was a lot more if you wanted any kind of special edge treatment, but I presume you mean equivalent to the ikea ones, right?

Yes, just to have the tempered glass cut and the edge smoothed and rounded. New ones were over $100 for three. We only have two glass companies and they do all the commercial work in this area too. I got the sense that this was small potatoes and they price it high because they can and don't need the work. This was also about 1 1/2 years ago when I did my last IKEA kitchen.

Interesting. I would say the attitude here was more, "Yeah, it's a piddly nothing job, but if you're doing the kitchen now you may want a shower surround, too, sometime in the near future."

Oh, and I didn't ask about cutting down ikea shelves, just about getting some new ones made. Possibly they have a source for those, so it might be a lot more for shelves for the 15" deep cabinets ikea has now.

Just came across this picture of an open area flanked by two tall cabinets:

Might help with the visualization?

Thanks, that does help! I'm standing in the demo'ed space every so often today trying to picture everything.

On matching cabinets on each end: currently there is no plan to wall in the refrigerator because it is so tall (24" x 79"). Would you build a cabinet around this to match, even if the box on top could only be very small (10" max I think; the ceiling is only about 91")? Would it bother you to have it exposed when the appliances on the other end are enclosed?

[I accidentally deleted some of the text here and so have retyped it. Sorry for any confusion.]

It would bother me. Everything else is fitted on that wall. What did you end up doing with the wall to the dining room? Remove it or cut it back? How deep is your fridge? I would purchase two large panels in Bodbyn Gray, one for each side of the fridge and ask your contractor if he could create a storage piece for over the fridge to join the two. Or create a box for over the fridge using the 9" unit. I would want the height to match the glass cab to its right.

Oh, interesting point; I figured I was safer with the fridge not being boxed with scenario 1 (glass door upper cabinets), simply because so much else is filled in, and the refrigerator nearly reaches the glass cabinet tops on its own (uppers are sitting somewhere around 86" H and the fridge is 79"). But I see what you mean about everything being carefully framed in the scenario, except the refrigerator.

I suppose one possible advantage of the no-uppers scenario is that the look is less fitted, so if we were to leave the fridge unframed, it would be consistent with the look. Then again, perhaps its better to frame it in to mirror the w/d stack.

There will be just enough wall to cover the depth of the fridge [just under 27" including the door] on the side of the kitchen with all the tall items. (We can't fully expose that side of the kitchen even if we wanted to, because there's a bump out sitting just on the other side of the entry way - a legacy from when we installed central air.) On the other side (the long wall with the sink), the kitchen will be completely open to the dining area, except for a half-wall just high enough to cover the cabinet sides.

Regarding the 9" cabinet: Do you mean flip this one on its side and remove the inserts?

Possibly relevant internet fodder - pictures of the refrigerator (and close cousins to it) in other contexts where it's not boxed in. Notably, these are more in the "no-uppers" style.

And two where they are built in:

small kitchen · More Info

Berkeley Cottage · More Info

Visually, it makes sense for the top of fridge to match the height of whatever else is there. So if there is nothing on that wall, nothing above the fridge make sense. But if you have uppers or another tall cabinet on the wall going to the ceiling, then the fridge should also be built in to the ceiling.

So no matter which of your options you go with, I think a cabinet or some other built-in above your fridge makes sense because of the cabinet that will be around the washer/dryer.

I agree with Jillius. And yes, I did mean the 9" on its side, but would still need to be altered for the width. Are your installers willing to do this type of tweaking? To me the best way is to use the all fall from the large side panels but I don't know the capability of your guys or f you want to involve DIY. You will have finished edges from the back sides of those sheets so you'd have plenty of extra material to work with. A box can be created like in the last pic you posted to match the dimensions you need. You would need framing to attach to the back wall which could be another plywood box. I can ask my DH what he used if you decide to go that route.

I'm a little confused with the heights you are going with. What is your tall pantry, 80 or 90"? Won't you have the tops of the W/D cab and the glass cabs align with that? Also, when calculating your height for the upper glass cab, don't forget to take into account your light rail if using, so you have enough space between the counter and the rail.

Ah the heights - there's a wrinkle that the planning software isn't showing, which is why I don't make total sense.

The ceiling is about 91"---until the last ~14/15 inches of the space on that wall. There's a support column in the corner of the room [which I wound up having to build the cabinets around]. A beam the runs across the ceiling room in the same place, and at that point the ceiling drops 4" lower, so about 87".

So, I can't fit a 90" cabinet once the legs are added, so we have a 80" planned. I planned to align all the upper cabinets with the top of that cabinet, which is just a bit lower than the lowest point on the ceiling. That would leave just a little room over top of the the cabinets in the final 14/15", and leave about 6" on top of the rest. It also allows me to install 30" uppers sitting 20" over the counter.

With cabinets at this height (tops ~86 off the floor), putting a box on top of the refrigerator is possible, but it's a (comically?) small box. I think the 79" tall refrigerator wants a half inch breathing room over top, but let's say 1" to be safe. So the box and any trim should be about 6" to line up with cabinet tops sitting at the ~86" mark with trim.

If I don't try to align the top of the entire cabinet run, the pantry is now sitting in front the support pillar and under the full extent of the lower ceiling. It could be a different height to mirror the ceiling descent here, ~86 high, and the box over the washer / dryer could be raised closer to the ~91 ceiling. If a box over the refrigerator were to match the w/d installation height, there's possibly 9-10" over the refrigerator. But only if it's not overly goofy to misalign the the pantry and washer dryer stack heights.

The ikea installers will perform some hacks. We already have plans to make a couple of cabinet in the plan shallower. In regard to the refrigerator, I gather that they'll attach side panels to box and cut the box, but there are some restrictions. I think they would flip that 9" box on its side and cut it less wide, then attach side panels to it. The smallest box with a door they are willing to hack would be 10" tall. They are willing to hack a basic white box to a wide range of sizes, but we'd have to be OK with it being an open white box. The exposed box edge wouldn't match the gray cabinets.

It may or may not be important to note that because the space is long and narrow, elements of the kitchen are viewed in mostly close quarters and on angles.

Hopefully that makes sense. Here's a graphic:

So the support column is the reason you have the pantry all the way to the right. As you have planned to this point, does everything line up in the same depth plane? I think either solution over the fridge would be fine. If I chose the first, I would add color matched crown to the ceiling. If you choose the second, the backsplash and hood take center stage and I really don't think it's goofy to misalign those heights since there is a beam perpendicular to the pantry. How many inches is the gap between the WD and cab in the 2nd? Your fridge is lovely and fits the space and your style well!

Historian - For the fridge surround in the first plan (with the glass doors) could they hack a fridge surround with side panels and a 5" drawer front above the fridge? Now, I don't know how they'd make that work, but I was thinking maybe a drawer front could fill in that space and create a consistent height across the whole run.

Also, have you inventoried your stuff to determine if you need the range-wall upper cabs? Your need may help determine your choice.

"So the support column is the reason you have the pantry all the way to the right."

Yes. In the pre-demo plan, I had the pantry next to refrigerator, which boxed it in nicely and put all the food storage together.

But once we demo'ed the kitchen and found out we had a masonry column in that back corner (previously concealed), subtracting the standard pantry cabinet from the main run and placing a shallow pantry in front of the column seemed like the best adjustment. I've been trying very hard not to lose any lower drawer storage.

"As you have planned to this point, does everything line up in the same depth plane?"

I'm not sure what you mean by depth plane, but the wall is the same depth until the pillar, where the pantry cabinet is going. The front of the refrigerator, lower cabinets, washer/ dryer stack + box, and pantry would all line up. (If that doesn't answer the question let me know.)

"For the fridge surround in the first plan (with the glass doors) could they hack a fridge surround with side panels and a 5" drawer front above the fridge?"

In an earlier conversation with the installers about fitting something over top of the refrigerator, and they stated that the smallest cabinet with a door the can make is 10" high. I am not sure why 5" was not stated as an option. They would make a smaller, white open box however. So perhaps they would make a short box and just use a 5" drawer or toe kick strip on the front to make a decorative top (that doesn't open). It's nicer to be able to hid something in a very slim box, but at 80"+ inches of the floor, it's pretty far out the way, anyway, in addition to being very small.

"I really don't think it's goofy to misalign those heights since there is a beam perpendicular to the pantry."

If it makes a difference, there isn't an exposed beam here - the ceiling drywall simply makes a right turn and falls a few inches.

It is helpful to know that having the pantry and the w/d cabinet next to it sitting at different heights (and following the ceiling height adjustment) doesn't bother you. I have a hard time picturing details like that, so I'm never sure if they're the kind of things people would notice.

"Also, have you inventoried your stuff to determine if you need the
range-wall upper cabs? Your need may help determine your choice."

Most of what I need to store will fit in the lower cabinets. The glass uppers offered extra space - a small amount of supplementary storage on an open shelf or in the dining room cabinet can make for up them. Putting in the glass cabinets was from the start a decorative decision first, and a functional calculation second.

It never hurts to have more storage; but since we don't need the storage, I feel free to pose the question of what looks best or makes the kitchen more pleasant for cooking.

I'm trying to give myself some time to picture both options - I'm used to the uppers plan and haven't spent a lot of time with the more open plan. That is an interesting excerise now that the old kitchen (with massive uppers on the wall) is gone, and I see how much larger the space feels without anything on the wall.

I tend to lean the same way Jillius does. Less uppers, more openness. Especially in your narrow kitchen.

I'm not big on symmetry and tend toward function over form but it would really bother me to have the W/D framed in with the fridge side open. I think I would always notice the difference out of the corners of my eyes. I would want them both open or both framed.

Symmetry of the heights of any uppers should be of relatively little consequence as the narrowness of your kitchen means that nobody will be standing back from that wall from a far enough distance to take it all in at once and notice anything non-symmetrical anyway.

Here's an idea I haven't noticed anyone else suggesting yet. I think you can still get the horizontal, glass front cabinets from Ikea in Sektion, can't you? I feel like this gives you a bit more storage without it hanging low enough to be in your face and, thus, helping to retain some openness and airiness.

"Symmetry of the heights of any uppers should be of relatively little consequence as the narrowness of your kitchen means that nobody will be standing back from that wall from a far enough distance to take it all in at once and notice anything non-symmetrical anyway."

This is a good point. You are either standing right in front of things, looking up, or else approaching by the back door or the dining room. From either pathway of approach, you can only see one corner of the short run. Not both of them.

An update to our deliberations: We have decided to cut the uppers from the plan. We will put a cabinet around the tall refrigerator, to match the stacked washer/dryer cabinet. There should be enough ceiling height to put a deep, but only 10" high box over top of the refrigerator, with a door. We will scribe the tall cabinets to the ceiling. Tile can go to the ceiling. I'm going remeasure everything after the floor and new ceiling go in, in case something changes. But this plan ought to work.

Instead of the upper cabinets and under-cabinet hood, we are going to put in a 36" wide hood over the 30" range. I'm thinking about a triangular hood with a relatively low profile.

Thank you so very, very much for all the suggestions and comments. They were all extraordinarily helpful to me in thinking about the space we have - with I can see better with everything removed - and trying to evaluate what we'd like best.

Closest mock-up I can make on the ikea planner:

Possible hood choice:

We're trying to decide whether to add anything else to the wall now. In terms of function: I have concluded that it would be more functional to add a shelf for mugs elsewhere. So I don't need to add anything to the wall.

It might be best to leave the space as open as possible - that is the point of dropping the upper cabinets, after all. After we live with it open, we could see if we need a little decoration.

But if a shelf or two would make the wall look more complete, maybe we should plan them now. I currently have wiring on the wall that would have supported under-cabinet lights, which I could employ to add puck lights to an open shelf.

Additional view, and where we might put other things ....

Inspiration photo for cutting board idea:

Modern Pantry By Tinsley Hutson-Wiley Interior Design · More Info

Fantastic! I think it will look great and can't wait to see updates of your progress. I love your hanging cutting board idea!

Pretty please start a new thread documenting your journey. It's always fun to follow along with pictures and updates!

You'd need to decide what to do with the electrical before you tile. If you decide against shelves with pucks, how about sconces? They'd add another layer of light and industrial flavor. Love the airy, minimalist look.

The home of Stella and Joeri · More Info

Mazama Ranchero · More Info

Nathan Cuttle Design · More Info

Ohhh... that third photo. Happiness. Nice visual aid too.

Yes, if possible I'd like to figure out now what I might want to do with the wiring (or not). If we want to wire something on that wall, it will be simple (and according to the original plan) to bring the wires in at the right spot when the drywall goes up (in the next week or so). It will be possible to get to it at some point after. We really don't want to make the discovery that we want it post-tile. At that point I think my meme will be 'too bad, so sad.' :p

"how about sconces...?"

We've wondered about this - and I'd love opinions on it. My total lack of comprehension of kitchen lighting is confounding me. If we've got recessed lighting above that is sufficient, and lights on the range hood, and no shelves / upper cabinets blocking that light, are sconces overkill? Or a good idea?

It would depend on the efficiency, size and placement of the recessed. I've got a 6" LED recessed on each side of the range and that along with the hood halogens provides excellent task lighting. But I also have good general and task lighting from the island pendants that adds another layer. What do you have so far?

I don't know all the specs I ought to know on this - the ceiling lights 4" disk LED lights, and there are three placed along the run of cabinets in question. There are another set following the opposite run of cabinets.

I have forgotten the output, but its pretty high and on a dimmer switch.

Other than the windows / back door, there are no additional light sources.

Hmm. There's a helpful photo:

It's difficult to know if you'll have adequate light without the specs, but these threads were helpful to me when I made these decisions:

long running UCL discussion

LED recessed can guide/ discussion

My thoughts for suggesting them are for all the reasons funky said. They add another interesting level of lighting and have a great look. I found many examples doing a Houzz search but don't know what style industrial you lean toward. Here's a few. If you decide to add shelves later, I think cab matched gray or reclaimed wood would look great. What color are your pulls?

Kitchens · More Info

Homeward Hills Kitchen · More Info

Highland · More Info

ETILER APARTMENT · More Info

Ice, thanks for posting your lovely kitchen. I struggle with visualizing ideas, so it is really helpful!

Funky, if we go with additional lighting I think you are right that the sconces are going to work better with the look and small space. It also makes a lot of sense to add a little additional light - it can always be turned down - and to have a couple lights that are task-specific or for mood. The artwork idea is so fun. I'm going to have to think about this! I also have that evil powder room wall, if I could find the right decoration.

There's something terribly pleasing about having begun the kitchen planning with the thought, "Oh my, where am I going to put all my stuff? How is this ever going to work?" and to be drawing toward the conclusion and be thinking things like, "My storage plan around the range should be nothing, or art.

Bbtrix, Thanks for hunting out this pictures for me. The style you pictured and the placement might look really good in this situation.

The pulls are a kind of a strange color, "antique pewter," so maybe hard to match. The faucet is chrome and lighting fixtures in the dining area are currently dark bronze. So ... we're already getting patchworky, for better or worse.

Here are the pulls - first is the stock photo, and the second is a photo I took when investigating flooring. (We're probably about to order the brown tile on the top.) The pull looks more silvery in direct light:

If you get small sconces that don't stick out very far, you might also want one on that powder room wall. A huge, colorful modern print lit by the sconce would look awesome there. Of course, you will want to be sure that the laundry cabinet doors don't bonk it.

I can't wait to see your finished reveal. I think your kitchen is going to be great.

Thanks, funky. There are still plenty of ways to drop the ball, I'm sure. But I am having a lot of fun with it. We'll see what comes.

Thanks for the input!

I am glad you are going with no uppers and boxing in the fridge. That's what I would have done too!

I notice that none of the pictures posted with sconces or other interest added to the wall have statement tile on the backsplash. It's all fairly simple tile or plain painted wall paired with the other stuff. Which makes sense.

Are you planning on an especially interesting backsplash tile? That might change how much else you want happening on that wall. You could just do extra cans in the ceiling there if more lighting is desired, but not necessarily additional interest on the wall.

P.S. It's a shame you can't install all your flooring options simultaneously. They look really good as a grouping with your cabinet!

For tile, we're planning just to use white subway. Since the room is small and long, it seems like the best way to keep from having too much pattern. It also saves me from having to commit to picking a bold feature tile. :p

It also means we can probably add a feature without the look getting too crazy - if I can figure out what the feature should be.

I like the idea of putting up a couple of small sconces and then playing around with some framed art to see how it looks on the PR wall and / or next to range. Unlike a bold feature tile, I can always take down the print if it looks odd. And it's a good excuse to by myself a bright Chagall print. "Oh, dear, I can't return it; I suppose I will just have to keep it."

I didn't read this entire thread word for word - but I like that cooktop wall with just tile and not with sconces. I like bbtrix 3rd photo in her last post.

If you go with a hood that has halogen lighting, you may not need more light there. I didn't see whether or not you can install recessed lighting. If so, I would use can lights for your entire galley style kitchen.

Also, it appears that your range is 30"? Consider a chimney hood that is 36 wide.

jpmom raises a good point. A bigger capture area does a better job of exhausting the GOSS (grease, odors, steam, smoke). Your hood should always be 6" wider than the range. This will, of course, also take up some space which will fill that wall a bit more than your renderings show.

It might also make that space seem busy enough to not need sconces. Recessed ceiling lights could very well be enough in that case. Although I would still hang art. You could even do recessed lights that are directional to highlight the art in addition to task lights. Chagall would be perfect!

If you opt to not do sconces, I think I would still have wiring run there while the walls are open. Ensure that you carefully record the exact measurements of where the wires are hidden so if, in the future, you decide to add sconces, you only have to cut into the tile above the wires and not dig out a bunch of tile to find the wires.

Burying wires in your wall for future use is against code. All wires technically should all end in a junction box (which you can't tile over) or they can be a fire hazard.

Not that I haven't broken any rules in our remodel, but it's good to know when you are doing it!

Historian stated several posts up that they have decided on a 36" hood, have 6 4" LED cans, 3 on the range side and 3 on the sink side, and electric is already in the range wall for UCL.

Yes, the revised plan - now that we've opened up the space and there is room - is for the 36" wide hood. The mockups show 30" wide hoods because that is all the ikea planner widget provides.

It is a good point that the 36" wide hood will chew up space, so we probably do need to avoid adding too much extra detail. It might make sense to have something there - but to keep the choice small and understated. I'll have to find a couple options and see how they look.

Thanks for the note on the wiring, Jillius. I hadn't asked our electrician what needs to happen if we decide not to use the wires at all; only about flexibility on how to use them if I changed my mind on placement. Since the walls are open, either taking the wiring out or bringing it in where we want on the new drywall now should be simple. Good reason for me to decide now and stick to the decision.