Mary, sounds like you've been shopping for your roses at Annie's Annuals ;-). Though near (I'm in Livermore), our climates are a bit different, with yours way cooler in summer. That means you can probably grow Mme. Berkeley without her turning harsh, screaming pink in the summer (I couldn't and so she is gone, but I can say that she had some of the best, healthiest foliage of any tea I've grown). However I will also vouch for the general healthiness of Cornelia, Mrs. B.R. Cant, and Reve d'Or. MBRC and Cornelia may get a bit of pm in the early spring but soon shake it off. Reve d'Or is extremely vigorous; approaching "house-eater". Of the Cochets, I have Niles Cochet, who does just fine here.

My Reve d'Or is not as vigorous as some, which I have decided to attribute to gophers pruning the roots. It has just never really taken off for me. It is now about ten years old.

I had a fair amount of PM with Penelope. Ballerina was healthy but so very thorny it was wearisome to prune and especially to weed. Or am I remembering Red Ballerina, aka Marjorie Fair? Anyway, both are long gone from my garden. I have not grown Cornelia, though I have admired it elsewhere. It is certainly a pretty rose. I like Buff Beauty best of all the hybrid musks, but it only repeats moderately, an impressive spring flush followed by a couple of much lighter repeats.

Mrs BR Cant mildewed in my garden. Le Vesuve mildews too, but only a little and I have kept it. Madame Berkeley and Maman Cochet, both the white form and the climbing pink form, are healthy here. I will probably replace a rose that died recently with Niles Cochet because I like this family of roses so much. I also have had very good luck with Papa Gontier and Rosette Delizy. Rosette Delizy is always in bloom and always healthy. I did not expect to like this rose as much as I do.

In fact, if you crossed a tea with a hybrid musk, Rosette Delizy is just about what you'd expect to get.

I am in the South Bay not far from Los Altos. My soil is alkaline clay like yours, but I expect my summers are distinctly warmer and the fog is somewhat less than yours.

Rosefolly

It sounds like you're off to a great start, and I hope you enjoy your drip system. I think it's the way to go. A caution on The Fairy--watch out for powdery mildew and chlorosis (yellowing of the leaves due to iron deficiency) when The Fairy grows in alkaline soil. I love my Ballerina rose, but it's prone to chlorosis, too (I have alkaline soil in my garden). I've read that all hybrid musks have some problem with this. There are many good soil acidfiers available that can help with the chlorosis problem. Diane

Pax (see thread with that title).

Jackie

I adore all the Pemberton Hybrid Musks, though I don't know how they'd take to alkaline conditions. 'Cornelia' is always and ever wonderful. 'Pax' as mentioned above is lovely, and I like 'Francesca' a lot too. Oh, and 'Kathleen'. This group of roses is likely to bloom mainly spring and fall. They're very elegant plants and all are scented. I put in a vote for 'Bishop Darlington', too. I love the Teas but leave discussion of them to people who grow them in your conditions, likewise "Grandmother's Hat" because I'm not personally acquainted with it.

I may have mentioned this before, but I had trouble with Maman Cochet in East Oakland. At least 80 percent of the flowers balled, although I may have had it in too confined of a spot. It couldn't seem to deal with the cool, damp weather during the summer.

Rbehs, that is a good point with the Cochets. I don't have cool, damp summers to consider, but the OP may.

Thanks so much everyone! I'm rushing before I head to work... wish I could talk about roses all day...

Yes, catspa. I'm an Annie's addict. I see you're also familiar with their rose inventory ;) The guy helping me there raved about Robin Hood and Grandmother's Hat, but they only had the former in stock. He said someone broke into the nursery and stole all of their rootstock(!) and they lost many of their old roses. GH may be available in the spring in limited quantities. That one's at the top of my list.

Of the teas, Madame Berkeley seems the most foolproof. That's a definite yes. I'm in love with the Cochets. Had no idea there was a whole clan of them. I want them all. I'm leaning towards Niles and the white Maman since I have a lot of pink already. Sounds like either could work in my conditions? Rosette Delizy is also a possibility. Mrs BR Cant seems risky, though I love her big fat blossoms.

Of the hybrid musks, this is going to be tough. Cornelia is a definite. Pax and Bishop Darlington both look amazing. I'll have to pick one or the other since I don't have space for both. I'm leaning towards Pax, I think, since the white will work better in the area I have in mind. Francesca is also beautiful. Ballerina sounds less promising, but I love her little hydrangea like flowers. I have one tough spot that gets mostly shade, but then is blasted with several hours of direct afternoon sun. This is a planting bed right in front of my living room window and needs something beautiful. Most everything I've tried there struggles in the extreme shade/sun combo. I had thought Ballerina might work there. Maybe Cornelia?...

Nanadoll, you're so right! The Fairy is my one and only unhealthy rose. Yellow leaves, nearly defoliated. To be fair, it started doing this in its nursery pot before I planted it a couple months ago. So I'm not sure if it's my soil or not.

Soil... makes my head spin. Not to go on a tangent, but I honestly don't know what type of soil I have here. Neighbor told me it's alkaline, but there are lots of established acid loving plants which thrive without any intervention. The clay consistency varies dramatically in different areas of my yard. The types of weeds also varies from area to area. Tons of dandelions in the front, zero in the back, for example. It's an 80 year old house, so I guess the yard has seen it's fair share of love and neglect from previous occupants. I need to do around 20 soil tests for the different areas- for now I'm just experimenting with lots of different types of organics...

Rbeh, just saw you're comment as I was typing. Thank you. Bummer about your experience with Maman. I do remember your comment from a few months ago. Just wished it weren't so. Might have to try one in my sunniest open spot and cross fingers...it's such a beautiful rose.

Thanks again to everyone!

Francesca here got BIG (I trained her as a climber and she easily did 12' +) and blooms are beautiful, in a blowsy way, but go by fast (less than a day when hot). Very nice if you've got the space and in a place that's not too hot.

(Yes, I do have a rather intimate knowledge of Annie's inventory -- I'm an avid and rather frequent visitor who ALWAYS goes to the rose table first. I hadn't heard about the burglary; explains why their rose selection was a little odd lately.)

You might want to check out Ghislaine de Feligonde--hybrid musk/hybrid multiflora/rambler. A rather big rambler/climber, but quite charming.

Kate

I adore Penelope, Prosperity and Moonlight in the Hybrid Musks, though I grow in a Ponderosa Forest in N. California I also have a home in Concord. Betty Boop is a fool-proof rose (although not old) for me in Concord and always is full of cheery blooms and beautiful hips in the fall (along with many blooms). It takes no water, is disease free, about 10' high and 7' wide (don't believe the 3-5 feet at HMF!). Even though it is the type of rose I wouldn't normally go for it is bright and cheery and always gets a smile from me. It is growing under a huge Coast Live Oak tree.

Thanks all for the wonderful suggestions! Can anyone address the shade tolerance of some of the larger roses? Ghislaine de Feligonde, Francesca, Pax, Bishop Darlington, Buff Beauty, Reve D'or, etc? I have a spot which gets morning sun/filtered afternoon shade. I'm leaning towards Reve D'or for this area but still open. I could also try Phyllis Bide or Robin Hood, both of which I already own.

I have Reve D'or growing (in San Rafael 6 blocks from SF Bay) quite happily in dappled shade most of the time - it does get some direct sun in the mornings - Eastern facing. One of my favorite roses - we put it in front of our back stairs, as my DH liked its "open" growth habit (so as to not plunge the back stairs into darkness). It works perfectly. Here is a picture:

On the other side of the house (Western facing, but gets LOTS of shade all morning from the 3 story house) is Pax. Even in the afternoon, it is not in full sun because of trees. Neither rose ever gets sprayed. Here is Pax:

Jackie

Thanks, Jackie. Your roses are beautiful! This is encouraging. I'm trying to track down Pax. It's out of stock everywhere. Might be able to pre order it from Greenmantle nursery up near Humboldt. I'd love to have it.

My understanding is that hybrid musks in general tolerate partial shade. I have Buff Beauty, Felicia, and Ghislaine de Feligonde growing in mid-day shade for several hours. Seems to work fine with them.

Kate

Of the teas, I agree that the Cochets might ball in your climate (blooms get stuck instead of opening correctly, and rot - not a good look). They even ball occasionally here, but I think you get more fog.

Rosette Delizy is bulletproof, and gorgeous, and mine stays in almost continuous bloom 10 months of the year.

Jackie

Thanks, everyone! I ordered from ARE last week: Cornelia, Madame Berkeley, Mutabilis, Sally Holmes, and Marie Van Houtte. These last three didn't come up on this thread, so hope I chose well. Mutabilis and Sally were on my want list, but I had forgotten about them. I've seen both around here looking really stunning. Marie Van Houtte was more of an impulse buy. I wanted Mrs Dudley Cross, but read MVH is less prone to mildew. Rosette Delizy was also a contender, but her color not as good with my existing plants.

I really wanted to order the Cochets, but restrained myself due to the balling. Sigh...

Marie VH and Mme Berkeley will have lots of sun; Mutabilis, mostly sun; Sally H will have morning sun. Not sure yet about where to plant Cornelia. I've read conflicting reports about how much sun she likes.

I'll probably get one more shade tolerant rose- maybe Pax, Buff Beauty, or Reve D'or.

My clay soil is waterlogged, so I'll probably need to wait awhile to plant. No complaints about the rain, though!

Mary, Your choices sound lovely! Good luck with them all.

Mary, I'm in SoCal (zone 10a/20), so YMMV, but I have had Marie Van Houtte for three years and she is an absolute winner. She does not get all day sun --there is filtered light in the afternoon -- but here where we routinely have 90+ days during the summer, she apparently welcomes the shade.

this picture was taken in mid-November of this year.

Mary, I have 2 Marie van Houttes growing under a Jacaranda, and they do very well.

As for Maman Cochet - she balled in my garden. I planted William R Smith last August, and despite having very full blooms (and MC as a parent), he doesn't ball. I am loving him.

I am near the coast, and have a lot of humidity. Mind you, he hasn't struck the really humid weather yet, so we'll see!

Trish

I adore Marie Van Houtte's red tinged creamy blossoms. Great choice!

Thanks so much everyone! I'm really looking forward to Marie Van Houtte. Her changing colors are what interest me most. I so appreciate everyone's kind comments and advice. Besides this thread, I've scanned the archives here and bookmarked tons of old posts. You all have no idea how useful your advice has been to this newbie. Knowing zilch about roses, I was just going to plant a few knockouts...Until I stumbled upon this place ;) In the last few months I've removed my front lawn and collected about 20 antique roses. Obsessed!