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'Miss Lowe's Variety' versus 'Bengal Crimson' -- who has both?

8 years ago

I received 'Miss Lowe's Variety' from Rogue Valley Roses this year. I also have my eye on 'Bengal Crimson' at Rose Petals Nursery, but I want to be sure I'm getting two different roses. I know both are similar, especially when young. But to anyone who has both -- and is sure that you have two different roses -- how does one tell them apart?

:-)

~Christopher

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Comments (4)

User
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
I may have "both". Vintage "suspected" their 'Miss Lowe's Variety' to be the same as 'Crimson Bengale' (as they called it), according to their catalog.
AquaEyes 7a NJ thanked User
AquaEyes 7a NJ
Original Author
8 years ago
If you have both, do you notice any differences between them? Oh, and while I have you, how's your "San Leandro Dark Red HT" doing? I tried getting that one but missed out, and just mentioned it in the thread about roses we want but can't get......hint-hint.

:-)

~Christopher
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Hi, Maurizio, Once again you have given us a wonderful picture of the Asian-derived roses that excel in our Mediterranean climate. Thank you so much. I quote Rehder and Wilson's description of Rosa odorata var. gigantea f. erubescens from Plantae Wilsonianae, p. 339 which we now have available to download courtesy of the Missouri Botanical Garden at botanicus.org: "Rosa odorata var. gigantea f. erubescens Rehder & Wilson, n. comb. Rosa gigantea f. erubescens Focke Yunnan: Lichiang valley, alt. 2500 m., May 1906, G. Forrest (No. 2049); Tali valley, alt. 2000-2400 m., May 1906, G. Forrest (No. 4452). This form differs from [Rosa odorata var. gigantea] in its pale pink often somewhat smaller flowers." I haven't read Focke's description, but Rehder and Wilson describe the color as pale pink, nothing reddish. I'll check a later Rehder description in Bailey's to see if he shifted to a darker memory of the rose. But you point out what I think is the importance of this form of Gigantea: its smaller, shrubbier size at the extreme northern range of the species. This is nicely summarized in Bean's Trees and Shrubs Hardy In The British Isles: "R. gigantea, in its typical state, extends into the southern parts of the Chinese province of Yunnan. But of greater interest are the forms collected by Forrest in central and norther-western Yunnan, which are of smaller stature than R. gigantea of Burma, even shrubs no more than 5 ft high, with fragrant flowers in shades of pale yellow or rose....It is perhaps these Yunnan forms, which Forrest found both wild and cultivated, that gave rise to the tea-scented roses of Chinese gardens...." This helps explain why so many of our Tea roses bear so many Gigantea characters, from drooping, mahogany colored foliage to evergreen foliage. Sorry for the diversion. I agree that Bengal Fire resembles Sanguinea, something unique in the blooms that reminds me of Dali's Persistence of Memory and those long, narrow, extremely graceful buds that are unmistakable.
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'Bengal Fire' is identical to Vintage Garden's "Miss Lowe's Variety." I have not compared it to their Sanguinea. It also seemed to be identical to Roger Phillip's 'Bengal Crimson,' which he got from Chelsea Botanical Garden. Since 'Bengal Fire' was imported from "an English botanical garden' by Heronswood Nursery, so the story goes, I believe that the circle is complete on that rose. Bengal Fire = Bengal Crimson. Roger said that seedlings of this rose are indistinguishable from the parent. I adore this rose, which is in full bloom right now in the cemetery and to me is a better Christmas flowering plant than a poinsettia! Dr. Wang said that the word "Dragon" in Chinese roses always indicates a climber, and so he didn't agree that our WPIRDM plants, even ones that build cane-on-cane to a large size, are the same. (Various plants of this rose have been found all over California's Mother Lode - in Fred Boutin's words, "growing feral.) Dr. Wang said that in China they are true climbers. Peggy Martin also thought that the WPIRDM in Louisiana is a bit different. I am looking forward to seeing for myself when I go to New Orleans next spring and talking further about red Chinas with her and other rosarians there. Wow - I seem to be dropping a lot of names here this morning! Please forgive me, but it fascinates me to talk to rose experts and try to learn from them. Anita
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User
8 years ago
Christopher, I am sorry to say that I meant "both" somewhat facetiously, as I have just one plant, but Vintage seemed to regard their 'Miss Lowe's Variety', at least, as being very similar or identical to 'Crimson Bengale'. One interpretation of that might be that they did not have the "true" 'Miss Lowe's Variety', another interpretation that they regarded the two varieties as being the same. The origin of their clone of 'Miss Lowe's Variety' is listed in the catalog as "unknown", unfortunately.

"San Leandro Dark Red HT" is gradually gaining size. It is no ball of fire, growth-wise, but not the worst I've seen, and of course the drought hasn't helped. It's a little over 2.5' tall at this point and healthy overall. I think there should be some cutting material available next season. Cynthia, aka "Nippstress", in Nebraska asked last spring, but the growth was just too spindly then; it has made some better growth since. I am anxious for there to be more plants of it in existence, so I hope you and Cynthia will let me know next spring, or whenever is the right time, and I will see what cuttings from it can be found and send them. I am intrigued by your suggestion of the 'Daily Mail Scented Rose' as an identity -- bears some resemblance, at least.
AquaEyes 7a NJ thanked User
jill_perry_gw
8 years ago
It's all rather confusing. Vintage thought Miss Lowe's Variety was the same as Bengal Fire, a different rose from Bengal Crimson, which is equated with Sanguinea. If you read the notes on Helpmefind, things won't be much clearer, as the correct identity of all of these in commerce is suspect. Our Bengal Fire is different from our Miss Lowe's Variety. I don't think we have a correctly labeled Sanguinea, and I'm pretty sure we don't have anything called Bengal Crimson or Crimson Bengal.
AquaEyes 7a NJ thanked jill_perry_gw

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