For one gallons, I usually leave them alone until there are roots poking out of the bottom, and then pot up a size or two.

What Brittie said.

They're all different, too. I had some 1-G roses this spring that needed a 5-G within a couple of months. And some band plants that went into 1-G, and then also needed 5-G in a couple of months.
Others, are slower.

So my understanding is that I should leave them in their original pots and watch them to see that the roots don't begin to poke through the bottom and that the roses don't threaten to become pot-bound. Move them up to whatever size-pot is appropriate for the size of the roses. That sounds very doable without too much fuss. I've already moved International Herald Tribune from its band size to a one-gallon pot so they can all hang out together over the winter. I'm afraid to plant these new roses in the ground since I don't know how severe the storms will be with El Nino, assuming that much-discussed entity ever comes into being.

Ingrid, I haven't ordered from Chamblee's, but I have received roses in 1-g pots, and sometimes the rose is already outgrowing its pot (which is nice to get a bigger than expected plant). Also, nurseries will often put the bare minimum of soil into the pot, so that the shipping weight/cost stays lower. I'd be prepared to at least add some dirt to the pot, but you may decide to go ahead and pot up any roses that are on the large size.

If you had cold winters, I would probably think leaving them in the pot would be fine until spring, but I'm guessing that winter is a good growing season for you, and a little room for expansion might be a good thing.

It does seem to me that if I put a China in a pot that's too big, that somehow encourages it to expand into the space fairly quickly. Not sure if that's been anyone else's experience...

Did you already mention which roses you've ordered, and I missed it?

Virginia

I concur with Virginia about potting-up working to encourage faster growth. I was hesitant to respond to this thread because our conditions are so different, but if you're looking to get them growing before planting out, take a look at the thread below.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/3426379/keep-weak-roses-potted-longer?n=19

I'm not good at everything, but I think I've gotten the knack of getting tiny bands to grow fast. If you're starting with gallon-sized plants, all the better. Take some before and after shots.

:-)

~Christopher

I would pot up any rose, even a band, I intended to leave in a pot for a few months directly into a 4 or 5 gallon pot. Roses seldom stop growing in my climate and I suspect they would grow even faster in yours.

I might only go to a 2 gallon at most if it's only till "spring". When I wanted to replant after only 2 months or so the root ball would break if it was a small plant to a five gallon. Of course Nik is right if the plan is to be in the pot into the summer. I had a few things get too hot in pots and a bigger pot could help avoid that.

I did have the thought that the potting mix they're in might not be enough in quality or quantity to see them through through six months even if the roses don't grow enough to have the roots show at the bottom. I would hesitate to put a smaller rose into a 5-gallon pot because that's generally not recommended. For whatever reason the roses in my garden usually don't grow very quickly, maybe partly me and partly environmental conditions. Christopher, I remember your magic planting mixture, but frankly just reading about it made me tired. I have to keep things really simple to function, and can just barely do the basics. Even having four roses in pots may be a stretch but I'm going to try it because right now I have no place to plant them, and other roses will have to be removed first.

Virginia, I've ordered two plants of Charles Darwin and one of Darcey Bussell. I'm considering adding another purple or mauve rose as I mentioned in a thread on the regular Rose Forum, but I recently put a rather small band-size International Herald Tribune in a one gallon container and it occurred to me that these two purples, along with Fragrant Plum, Charles Rennie McIntosh, Mr. Bluebird, Heirloom and Wild Edric were more purplish roses than I even realized I had. I was looking for a contrast to the many different pinkish roses I had, and just the other day it dawned on me that a soft gold-yellow like Charles Darwin might also provide a nice contrast, and it's a color I don't have at all.

The only reason that I can see that would make putting a smaller rose in a largish pot not desirable would be EXCESSIVE rain during winter. I don't think that in a dry climate there would be much concern about that and even in a very wet climate that should not be a problem given a properly draining medium. This with regards to roses not other more sensitive plants. I would never plant citrus in a larger pot than appropriate but a rose? If one can contemplate planting the rose directly in the ground, surely planting it in a 5 gal pot wouldn't hurt it...

Of course one may decide not to use a larger pot in order to make subsequent transplanting easier but that would be at the risk of the rose becoming pot bound and/or requiring very frequent watering.

I also cannot see why a rose in a suitable pot would not grow fast for you Ingrid. Roses need warmth, water and nutrients to grow. Your climate provides the first, you can easily provide the others.

As for myself I find that many bands come in a soil that can hold excessive amounts of moisture. If there is any rainfall the roots can suffer in the tiny pot.

Ingrid, it sounds like you'll have a nice palette with your pink, purple and soft golden yellow tones. I wouldn't pot a 1-g to a 5-g either, but that's because I don't have as many 5-g pots as I have intermediate sizes, and also because I mix my own dirt, and always seem to need more than I have...

At any rate, I'm sure that once you receive your plants, your instincts and experience of winter roses chez Ingrid will tell you if they'll need more room or if they'll be fine as is for a few months. I agree you'll probably need to add some soil even if you leave them in the pots they travelled in.

Virginia

Ingrid, I ordered 2 Reve d'Or (among many others) this summer from Chamblee's. The Reves arrived looking cruddy. I didn't want to possibly make them worse by disturbing the roots so I didn't pot them up a size They both died. I did not pot up the other other Chamblee's roses I received. They did fine. When I phoned Chamblee's to request replacement they told me the roses died because I had not potted them up---that it stated in their literature to replace the soil. So----I suggest replacing the soil regardless of what else you do. I was very disappointed in their lack of customer service.

Susan

Susan's comment is very interesting. I just got a couple of bands from RVR I couldn't resist. The weather is 30 F. cool rainy. I might have left them for them to care for but I couldn't leave the "babies" in the orphanage. They are Souvenir d'un Ami and Eugene de Beauharnais. I did water them then push them up/out from the bottom clumsily and put them in one gallon black pots with Gardner & Bloome rose soil. I have them tucked in on the east patio next to the house. I think they are doing fine as is Jesse Hildreth planted 9/28/15 in the ground. I think this is all a bit riskier than peak planting season for the small ones. I bet it is the plant like Susan's experience and not always the gardener. It seems if Susan had "disturbed" them by replanting they probably would have died anyway in that case.

Ingrid, whether or not I pot a one-gallon rose up to a 2 gallon pot depends upon the degree of growth and root development it has upon arrival. Not all one gallon plants are equal. Within a few days of arrival, if the rose has healthy top growth, I gently take the rose out of the pot to check the root system. Well developed plants ( healthy top growth and roots) get potted up. Anything else goes back into the one gallon pot until it develops more.

Lynn

Depends on what they look like when you get them. If there is any deterioration of the mix or crowding of the roots they should be bumped up.

With the roots being pulled open or cut back in the process.

If they look small and weak is it safer to leave them alone after what Susan said?

What Susan said really struck me, wow. I've only lost two or three baby roses out of hundreds over the years, and it would have been my instinct to leave a poor looking rose alone (other than give it some water). I'm giving some serious side eye to chamblees right now over that comment. They probably sent cruddy plants to begin with.

Depends on why it looked poor. If deteriorated soil mix or other problem with the roots was the cause leaving it sitting there in the same situation would be unlikely to result in an enhanced outcome. As the roots go, so goes the top - to get the desired response from the top a good rooting environment must be maintained. Roots of most plants need a well aerated habitat - strictly speaking they grow in the air between the soil particles rather than in the soil itself - and are ever expanding outward, in search of fresh ground. Container walls and other impervious barriers are quite a problem for them - the ideal time to re-pot is when the roots are approaching the pot walls. Plants with roots that have hit pot walls, following them around in circles have been in those same pots way too long. If the top of a plant looks dinky relative to the size of the pot - and it is not because the plant is stunted - then the top of the plant is in correct proportion to the container.

Susan, that's rather disturbing news about your Reve d'Or plants. They really should have given you a refund. This is a sturdy rose and there shouldn't have been a problem, and I don't think any of it was your fault. I prefer the Antique Rose Emporium, but of course one nursery never offers all the roses you want and I think we all end up shopping around at different places.

Nik, I really think my less than stellar success is known as black thumb syndrome. My sister-in-law grows the most beautiful and interesting plants in pots that would curl up their toes and die for me. I'm slapdash, lose patience and interest quickly and am tired after a ridiculously short time and then it take hours to recover. I think it's a miracle I have any kind of garden at all and wouldn't without my husband doing everything that requires effort. For anyone with a normal amount of energy it's difficult to understand what it's like. However, in spite of that I enjoy what I do have immensely and it gives great interest to my life.

I agree about bands getting too moist and I don't leave a rose for longer than ten days at the most in a pot that small. I'll know a lot more after I've received the roses at the beginning of January. I hope they'll be a good size and healthy, but am a little worried after Susan's experience.

One thing, Ingrid, I wanted to mention that you asked about before I was posting is earth worm castings. I have the impression that they provide miraculous benefits to my plants. I have mixed a cup or two in when I planted roses and I think it really helped in colder gardening areas and here in the heat. My property here in Oregon had the previous owner put subsoil fill all over for I don't know what reason. The "soil" was not in good shape. The response you had gotten to your question was cool, but my experience has been different. I think they could give your plants a boost. Of course, you are already growing the most beautiful garden so I don't know how you need a boost, but there you have it.

I love Chamblee's Nursery so don't get me wrong. Their advice too pot up or plant is necessary as the soil it comes in holds too much water. Even when they dry out on top it is still wet on the bottom. In my case even if they don't look the greatest I still need to remove the soil they come in.

I would suppose that were a person not be familiar with different own root nurseries a mistake could easily be made. I'm guilty myself of not reading planting instructions at times. I've order own root bands for so long that I pretty much know each place. Should one change their medium I'd be wishing that I had read. Hope this is helpful.

Thank you for the advice, Sheila. I did order living worms at one time but that was not a success. They were supposed to grow and populate large areas after a while but they did neither the one or the other. In spite of my watering maybe the soil underneath was just too dry with the long drought. I like the idea of the castings since you say you've seen good results. I'll purchase that and use it to plant these roses.

The interesting thing I've noticed, Patty, is that different nurseries have different instructions, even when it comes to the size and the depth of the hole to plant them in, how much bagged soil to add, whether to do other amendments and what kind, etc. It gets really confusing so we end up doing it our way. One thing we always do after digging a good-sized hole is to fill it up with water and then wait until the water has drained before planting and then watering again. In our dry climate it seems to help.

Earth worm castings was "without a doubt", the source of the white grub issue I "had" and hopefully have eliminated. I will never introduce that product to my garden again, and I know the reviews for it are great, but I will never use it again. YMMV....

Lynn

I bought packaged earthworm castings of different commercial brands and thankfully never had that problem. Was it a particular brand Lynn?

The interesting thing I've noticed, Patty, is that different nurseries
have different instructions, even when it comes to the size and the
depth of the hole to plant them in, how much bagged soil to add, whether
to do other amendments and what kind, etc.

Don't add any bagged soil or other amendments. Choose a location that drains well enough for roses or make it suitable with drainage pipes or mounding/raised beds, then plant in that soil - without creating any pockets or zones of differently textured material. You always want a uniform soil texture throughout the entire potential rooting area.

Do mulch after planting. That is where organic material added to permanent (long term) plantings belongs - on top of the rooting area, as mulch.

http://puyallup.wsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/planting-instructions.pdf

Sheila,

The worm castings organic fertilizer was purchase bagged and online from Amazon.com. This product has an amazing number of positive reviews... and it without a doubt was the source of white grubs. This fertilizer was added to the planting beds that run parallel to the sides of my home and a potted plant, then I ran out... fortunately. I noticed that some plants were failing to thrive. When I dug up the plants, the roots were being eaten by multiple grubs. The only places where I have found grubs, are in the two areas I placed this organic fertilizer and the potted plant that I put it in. I found about 10 grubs eating the roots of my potted SDLM rouge, which explained its failure to thrive too.

Lynn

Many beetles will lay their eggs in decomposing organic material be that compost, manure or earthworm castings. Earthworm castings is nothing more than decomposing plant material consumed by earth worms (a process which also happens in a mature compost heap or in the ground). There is nothing wrong with earth worm castings per se. If the particular product was infested that had to do with the particular producer's wrong practices. However this can happen even in one's garden and compost heap. One of the reasons I think that using 'live' organic material in pots, as substrata or fertilizer, is a bad idea. There is some tolerance for grubs in the garden but not in a pot. I attempt to sterilize my compost by spreading it thin under clear PVC sheets and let it under the summer sun for a week or so before using it in the garden and never in pots.

My goodness, now I'm afraid to take a chance with the castings. Gardening is so confusing. What works for one person can be a disaster for someone else.

Embothrium, I think we devoted another thread to the subject of whether to use amendments or not, and it turned out to be quite a passionate discussion. I think we do need to go by past experience as much as by someone else's advice, and in my very poor soil of decomposed granite I've found that amendments seem to work well. However, I've never planted a rose in unamended soil (i.e. in my case small rocks and what looks like sand) in which I have never seen one living organism when digging into it. The pictures below show parts of the garden in which amended soil was used to plant everything. I'd be interested in your thoughts.

OK, I'm outta here..

Lynn, I wish you knew the infested brand's name. I have only bought earthworm castings ("fertilizer" not mentioned). We know anything contaminated, like Nik says, does not implicate the class or amendment as a whole. Nan Sterman "California Gardener's Guide" suggests earthworm castings with every new planting too. I just know this amendment helped the most of anything I tried. I'm afraid I will continue to amend, Embothrium, because I am building soil. Lynn, I am so sorry you had that experience. Ingrid those photos give me hope for us all.

Sheila,

I can check my Amazon account to find the company's name. While I am sure it is the culprit, this is "virgin" soil (un- landscaped) and similar to Ingrid's in that it is essentially void organic matter, which also is why it is recommended that the soil in planting areas/holes be amended. There was nothing living in my soil visible to the naked eye, and the grubs were isolated to only the beds where this stuff was applied....oh and the one pot that I threw the last bits of it in against even my better judgment. Many people have had great success with worm castings.

Honestly, I need to contact the company and complain about the product. It could be a fluke that was contained ...I just do not know, but I would hate to post something "online" that could potentially tarnish the overall reputation of a specific company due to my experience.... if that makes sense?

I too wouldn't dare plant anything without amending the soil.. in the hole or planting bed. Now it will be as it always has been, compost... aged manure... etc.

Lynn

I really appreciate your comments, Lynn. I hope it was a fluke of contamination that was not repeated at that company. I have used the castings over 30 yrs of different brands but never from Amazon. I usually just mixed it in a planting hole in the ground. That would be helpful if we gave feedback to them if a product or company let us down. I wasn't brave enough to raise my own worms.

Grubs are beetle larvae. Some of them are more dangerous to roots than others. Some of them can be a real menace to a field. Difficult to tell one from the other unless you see the adult. In Europe we have the European cockchafer Scarabaeus melolontha which is very bad news if found in abundance in a field. Many beetles lay their eggs in decomposing organic matter or in damp humic soil rich with organic matter so in the case of Lynn, the matter could have contained the eggs when bought or the beetles might have laid the eggs after it was used in the garden. There's always that danger when one makes one's soil very 'lively'.. Digging up all that part of the soil is one solution, repeatedly treating with organophosphates is another. Neither is easy or ideal. In reality an organic content of about 5% is all you need to make your soil fertile IF your soil contains an adequate amount of mineral nutrients and is of proper pH to start with.

Nik,

I identified the grub as a white grub.... I think. Two areas had to be treated, which I am HIGHLY opposed to, having a no spray / strive for "totally" organic garden, but felt there wasn't much choice, not just for my garden, but for that of neighbors in the vicinity. The fact that I planted over 100 roses and other plants throughout my property, and the only areas that had grub issues were the two rose beds on opposite sides of my home, and the one potted plant on my covered patio where the worm castings were used, is highly suspect and compelling; especially due to the size of my property and where plantings are.

My " virgin" desert soil is likely on par with or worse than Ingrid's, and both are alkaline to top it off. For all intents and purposes, my rocky, sandy soil is void organic matter, unless any bits made and left by the spiders, lizards, and crickets crawling around on top of it count.

Lynn

I had the same experience as Nik two years ago. Only mine was a bagged amendment. Don't know which one it was. I was doing a mix for plants I was potting. There was still lots of mix left in the wheel barrow. Several weeks later`when they grew I was able too see hundreds of them. The pots were full of them also. So it happens. Had to spread mix on a tarp and let the sun kill them.