Do you have just a two dimensional layout? That would be so much easier.

No, he kept that one.

It looks crowded to me. You've got a fridge, range and sink all in one fairly small area of your kitchen. I think this could be a traffic jam. Both Buehl's plan and Funky's tweak of Buehl's plan are better than this one, sorry.

Corner range ... mock this up and practice cooking at it, including moving out of the way when someone puts something in or takes something out of the oven. Where will you stand? Will you be able to reach the pan to continue stirring? Since you'll be moving away at an angle, it won't be as easy to reach the burners. Oh, wait, you said they had this at the showroom? Go back and do your practice there, not just making dinner for a normal night but making Thanksgiving dinner when there's always a whole lot of activity going on at the range.

One more thing. You won't be able to open the oven door and the drawers in the cabs on either side of the range at the same time. So if you open the oven door and realize that you forgot to grab a hot pad or spatula, you'll need to close the oven door before you can open a drawer to grab this item. I'd find that a PITA but maybe you won't.

Yes I agree with Lisa on those points. While, I think the corner range may look kinda neat, I'm not sure I would like using it. Good idea to go to the showroom and pretend cook. Might get a few laughs!

It really does look like the sink, range, and fridge are too crammed together. In that drawing anyways. Hard to tell the actual space.

Do you know how big the cabinets are between the sink and range and also the range and fridge? Idk, I really would like more breathing room. I know you guys prep on the island but still why cram when you have the space to spread those things out. Think Spaaaace! Ahhhh! :-)

Oh and great news about losing the fridge wall!

Here are a few corner stove kitchens I found in a quick search. This first one might be close to your proposed layout?

And maybe this last one? The two in the middle I think are a lot bigger kitchens.

The last one looks very close! ETA: I think the base cab to the right of the range was 36" wide. I'm not sure about the left, but there was at least 24" of counter space before the sink.

So, would you keep the range where it already is in my existing kitchen?

I have a friend with a very similar, close to identical, set up. It is a ONE person kitchen. Zero way for two people to be anywhere near the cooktop. Impossible for one person to be stirring something and the other peak in the oven. Even doing dishes while someone is at the cooktop is a challenge. But, it is just she most of the time and in her space, it was about the only option.

I wouldn't want it if there were other options.

Here are more images to give an idea of size/room. The window is 48" wide.

It looks crowded to me. As I recall, your kitchen is a nice size, but in these images, it keeps feeling like it would be really cramped to cook in. And, then, you've got all that counter space to the left of the perimeter sink that seems wasted - just not really useful counter space.

Only 24" between sink and range? With the range at an angle like that, person at the range will be standing right on top of the person at the sink. And what is the clearance from the front of the range to the corner of the island. I suspect it will be a tight squeeze for someone getting something from the fridge to walk behind cook to get to the prep area on the island, too.

IF you move the clean-up sink down to almost the other end of the perimeter counter, this plan might work but I'd still be wary of clearance behind the cook around that corner of the island. It might be best to have just that corner on the island angled off.

I basically agree with all the concerns raised thus far regarding crowding of all work zones on top of each other and inability to access lower storage if oven door is open, and inability to share the cooktop (since you both like to cook).

I prefer Buehl's design (or the one I tweaked) and both of Sena's designs to this one.

I have a corner cooktop, which I've enjoyed. Because I have separate wall ovens, the concern expressed here about someone at the stove and someone else peeking in the oven haven't been an issue. I will say that I do wish I had at least another 12" between my sink and cooktop (I have 39"). I had this in my previous house and it makes a huge difference. If you only have 24", I would recommend a different design.

Oh yes for sure with a French door. They open quite wide.

I think I would play with Funky's flip. (Lol, that sounds so funny!)

Range where Buehl put it is easiest and works better then the corner range.

But, I would love to see the Funky Flip myself. :-D

Range on the shorter wall (fridge side now) and fridge towards the end of the sink run to the far left.

I am assuming the window and sink are not movable?

Edit: nkbaskets, I knew there was someone who had a corner range that I loved the backsplash on, but couldn't find it. Glad you chimed in.

Because of our budget, we'd rather not move the sink and window. We are having the window completely replaced, though.

I worry that the Funky Flip Fridge would cause people to go through the cook/prep zone rather than walk around the island.

Also, maybe a bit paranoid, but I'd rather not be visible at the stove when people come to the door. Things aren't pretty when I'm cooking! That's one thing we like about the annoying wall -- barely any view into the kitchen. But that's the only thing.

Well, I think with your family room, screened porch, breakfast area, mud room/ garage entrances to kitchen all being towards that side, the cooking zone might be even more protected over there. Kids, people, tend to take the shortest path. Now if the front door and hallway was most used, then I could see them trying to cut through.

I'm adding your original layout as it may be helpful so others don't have to switch threads to see it. OH I hope that's the right one!

Just saw your other comment about the not so pretty cooking...Lolololo!

Yup, that's the right floorplan, thanks!

I'd say the most used entrance is from the hallway toward the front, really from that staircase(s) which leads both from upstairs and also from the basement-level garage. Once you're in the family room, you're kind of stuck. So, breakfast-to-fridge is from that hallway, as is lunch-to-fridge most days because my home office is upstairs. Dinner and snacks path to fridge are from the family room and mudroom. Once seated at the table, a nearby fridge would make sense, though.

Thoughts on how a fridge wall would look there, near the French doors? Any photos to link? FWIW, I have been haaaating putting stuff down to the left of the FD fridge. I'd almost want to end that counter run with the fridge so as to not have wasted, empty, unused counter space to the left. But I think it might look bad.

Honestly I have to say that is probably one of the worst kitchen plans I've seen in a long time for way too many reasons to list right now. I have to be up at 5:30 and it's already 11:30 pm. I think the plan Beuhl gave you is 1000x better than this. Two sinks facing one another with a long span of counter to the left for what? Crowding the sink, oven and fridge all in one tiny corner? And the stove in a corner? It doesn't even work well for a one person kitchen! Did this person just finish his/her KD schooling? If he/she did, I suggest they go back to school

If you're trying to compare apples to apples, take the plan Beuhl gave you and bring it with you to the KDers. I handed my KD exactly what I wanted in terms of where I wanted my sink, cooktop, fridge, and which cabinets I wanted where. It was then her job to fit them in and make them look good.

Frankly, I think the folks on this forum are probably better than 99% of the people who call themselves KD's.

Cp, ;-)

Also, maybe a bit paranoid, but I'd rather not be visible at the stove when people come to the door. Things aren't pretty when I'm cooking! That's one thing we like about the annoying wall -- barely any view into the kitchen. But that's the only thing.

This cracked me up because I totally get it!

I really think this is an important comment to recognize, listen to, and help you to find a solution. And sorry, I just assumed the mud room enterance was coming from the garage. So the hall in front of the staircase is garage downstairs and front hall is what is most used from the upstairs rooms. Is that right?

Here's what my weird take on it is. With either the corner range idea from the KD, or the Funky flip, this is going to be a problem with seeing you standing at the stove from that hall huh?

No difference really. But, if you wanna get technical, the funky flip actually hides the mess a little bit better since the corner stove is even more visible. Plus my side view is better then my slightly angled backside! HA! Anyways let's fix this concern.

I hate to say to just leave the wall cuz I really don't like it..... So, let's see what else these geniuses can work out first.

From what I've learned here on GW and from my own experience, you will be prepping way longer then actually cooking. I think they say it is an average of maybe 10% total time spent standing in front of the range or cooktop stirring or flipping or whatever. Most time is spent prepping. Which in your case, is always, always at the island. You are at least hidden there.

Let me think about this. I have no doubt, it will be awesome. You have so much room and space to work with, so no worries! :-)

Adding that I also never plop to the left of my French door fridge, always behind me on the island. That's why I'm so glad you will have that landing now closer if wall removed.

I thought it would be good to analyze the plans a bit further. I put work zone circles in all the plans. The pink lines are the path one would follow going ice-water-stone-fire-cleanup (fridge-wash food-prep food-cook-cleanup).

Buehl's

In KD's plan, the cook circle is quite small and tight and slightly overlaps into the clean-up space due to the short 24" counter between range and sink. As Nhbasket mentioned, her space between them is 39" and she wishes it was more like 51". Prep person also walks very close behind cook. The cook zone simply isn't protected as it should be. Especially in a busy house with kids.

In Buel's and the Herbie Hop, the pink line runs through most of the kitchen which does indicate that more distance has to be traveled but this is a relatively small kitchen so that's fine. It means that the work zones are spread out with nicer expanses of counter so the worker isn't crowded and fighting for more counter space. In KD's plan, half the kitchen isn't even being used further indication of how crowded this plan is.

One place where Buehl's plan superiority really shines through is in the DW placement. You can open it without it blocking/crowding any of the other work zones. In both of the other plans, it will be difficult, if not impossible, for someone to prep while someone else is accessing the DW. There just isn't enough width in that aisle.

I find it hard to imagine someone coming up with something superior to Buehl's plan. If the DW showing down the hall to the front door is the biggest issue with it, how about splurging on a DW that can have a panel?

The Herbie Hop...now that just made my whole day!

I think Funky illustrated perfectly and nailed this one right on the head.

Buehl's plan just works the best. And saves you the most $$$$. Hello! :-)

Without having to move the range that saves you money. So get that soapstone!

Maybe even get that dw panel. Or Leave it SS or what ever color.

Seriously I hope my little comment on your other thread about seeing the dw isn't even in your thoughts. I think I said, it will never even be noticed. The 48" window will draw your eye to the light and view!

I will sleep on it, but at this point I do think that we could rack our brains forever and keep coming back to the same conclusion.

Buehl's plan just works. Simple. Done.

I've often said on here that gw'ers beat the outside KDs and architect's the majority of the time. 99% sounds about right on it.

Why would they squish everything into that 1 corner area? I don't see how anyone from either sink would get to the fridge if someone is cooking - w/out going all the way around the island the other way. I also noticed immediately the sinks back to back. I don't know the distance from front of stove to corner of the island but it's gonna need to be some good distance for the cook to backup while opening the oven door - are they going to back into that island corner? ouch!

I like the fridge on the left end of the main sink run myself - closer for snacks to FR and for kids to get milk or juice to the breakfast area.

That's a brand new Miele from three weeks ago, we're not splurging again, LOL! I'm not concerned about the panel.

OK, now I have more time to respond. Thank you all for your comments!! You really helped us hash out what we want and don't want in the kitchen. We want room to spread out, and don't want to end up crowding each other. We were a little crowded in our last kitchen (mostly because we had 1,952 appliances covering every inch of perimeter counter), and were actually looking forward to this house's open floor and peninsula, thinking we'd enjoy the extra space. But, we hate walking a mile just to get things together!

Yesterday, we thought we liked the idea of that long counter run to the left of the sink, but really, we don't need that in addition to the huge island.

I LOVE the DW where it is (buehl's plan has it staying there). I keep the dishes/glasses to the right. It makes a nice cozy corner and everything is easy to put away.

I do have a question for buehl, but maybe one of you can answer, too:

• What is the purpose of the deeper cabinets along the fridge run? Is it to mesh better with a standard-depth fridge? Or to make more room for the microwave and Breville?

And another question about a choosing a KD:

• Even if you don't like a KD's design, would you use them anyway if you feel you mesh very well, or is the design a make-it-or-break it test?

As for being able to add in the soapstone... I'm afraid it's the principle with my husband... even if we can squeak out extra $$ from something else, or heck, even if I put in more hours to pay for half of it myself(!), he'll never go for buying 11K worth of stone. But then again, just four months ago, he said "moving is not really on the table." I almost got whiplash from the change, there!

I just had to comment on this, because I have a microwave drawer - "pulling hot stuff up to take out seems more tricky than just pulling forward" - it's absolutely the opposite! Taking things out of the drawer is so much easier and safer, unless you have a microwave on the counter and just slide things out of the microwave onto the counter.

Agree with sjhockeyfan about the microwave. I have one and am absolutely putting one in our new build again. Wouldn't do it any other way.

As for the soapstone, if he's like my DH, plant the seed, show him some examples, let him see cheap and then see if he suggests it later on. That's what I have to do with mine. ;)

I will leave beuhl to answer your first question but to answer the second one, if you like the cabinets the KD has and you feel that they will be willing to work with you, and can manage well, using YOUR plan, then I see no reason not to use them.

"What is the purpose of the deeper cabinets along the fridge run? Is it to mesh better with a standard-depth fridge? Or to make more room for the microwave and Breville?"

The deeper counters were for two reasons:

(1) To make the standard-depth refrigerator look more "built in"

and

(2) To give you more counter space for the Breville oven and MW. Both will take away workspace depth, so it would be better if you have a bit more depth. MWs hanging from an upper cabinet can be "in your face" when working on the counter, so the additional 3" gives you "breathing room".

Regarding the MW - I much prefer the drawer - even to one on the counter! We will always have a MW drawer from now on if at all possible! (We plan to build a retirement home in a few years and a MW drawer will definitely be in the plan!)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Regarding what you "see" from the front door - based on your comments, you will be happier seeing the DW than the range.

How wide is the range? Keep in mind that any corner appliance will take up a lot of wall space. A 33" oven cabinet, for example, requires 48" on each wall. A 30" range will require b/w 42" and 45" - plus 6" or more filler b/w the range and the adjacent base cabinets to ensure the oven door and all adjacent drawers/cabinets will open fully.

A 36" range will take even more than a 33" oven cabinet!

If the range is a 30" range, it will be a one-person range - 2 people will not be able to cook at the same time.

In addition, anyone working at the range will be a barrier to someone trying to get to the refrigerator.

You also have a lot of wasted (and expensive) counter space to the left of the sink - why not make your whole kitchen usable, not just a small corner?

+++++++++++++++++++

"...My husband and I are both island-preppers, period. We just don't use the perimeter counters for primary prep, especially for anything going onto the stove...."

What is your current layout? That may be why you only prep on the island right now.

Do you really want to be bumping elbows and competing for the prep sink?

If you're prepping something for the range, wouldn't it make more sense to prep next to it so there's less carrying of the prepped food around the Kitchen?