More layout help?
We're progressing toward planning out kitchen reno, early next year. It will be an Ikea kitchen on a budget, this is a condo and we don't want to over-improve as we want to enjoy living here another 5 or maybe more years, but don't intend to retire here.
I'm using Ikea kitchen planner and on another thread which I can't find now I got lots of great suggestions. Our current kitchen is essentially like the link below - it's 1980's builder crap, but I replicated it as closely as possible in the planner for reference. We hope to remove the pass-through wall altogether to create a peninsula, but the contractor says if there are load-bearing posts we may need to leave a post in the corner. If we do that, we'd probably leave or re-build a partial wall instead of having back faces on the peninsula cabinets in order to create a more contiguous look than just having a post there.
Here's our current layout - you can see how bad it is in several ways:
looking in from the LR/DR pass through window wall (invisible wall)
One of the challenges in this small space is the fact that the short wall where the range currently is cannot be removed or changed because our front entry is on the other side, and I tried to indicate this as best I can but our front door is inset into the home in an alcove so the front door opens up against that wall and comes to 2" from the kitchen doorway.
Another is that we do not want to change the flooring - it is throughout our whole home, and the flooring is discontinued and I have 1.5 boxes left to patch areas but can't change the footprint too much. We also don't want to push into the dining and living room area (not shown - the first floor is 40' long open floor plan) and we do want to maintain a partial barrier between the kitchen and the dining area as a peninsula/serving bar. Initially I wanted to move a cooktop to the peninsula but DH was very concerned about our cats being naughty and jumping up there or when guests are getting food from the peninsula cracking the cooktop or burning themselves... and there is no space for stools/overhang etc.
So here is my latest plan, I love the built-in feel of the fridge flanked by pantries and the range feeling close to the peninsula and sink but against the wall for safety. It will add a lot of expense to move the sink, but with it under the window I am forced to have 3 corner cabinets in the kitchen unless I move either cooktop or sink to the peninsula. Moving the sink to the peninsula would be a lot more expensive of course - probably prohibitively. I don't love the placement of the sink, but we don't spend much time standing at the sink really - we use the DW for everything.
I'm a bit worried about the window wall just being blank, and looking weird. It' just a view onto our front patio and carport, not a great view to highlight.
What do you think - is this a good compromise between budget, functionality, and aesthetics? Or can we do better still?
link to planner:http://kitchenplanner.ikea.com/US/UI/Pages/VPUI.htm?LoadDesign=2c0e8abee9c54b2b934bb4878bed3461&UIContext=SE_Menu&IsSharedDesign=1
Comments (16)
sheloveslayouts
8 years agosheloveslayouts
8 years agoI still believe this is the best and most economical layout, leaving the sink in it's present location:
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More layout helped needed if you please
Comments (40)It's difficult, because of that back door/basement stairs. The little table you have in the other plan is cute, but the right side chair is in the doorway and might be hard to work around. I think the kitchen layout is wonderful, but the dining area ends up feeling cramped. Can you move the dining area window over, at all? Maybe something like this? Move the fridge down by the stove (microwave across from the fridge?) and have the overhang for the stools...and room for your table, at least a smaller one. Also, more room to get to the basement/back door. I don't think the table would seat more than three or four people, but if you could move it into the living area, for bigger parties...this might be a possibility :) You might also want to start a new post, with the info that you can move the garage door over, and see if you get new ideas! Buehl is back and maybe you'll get more input with a new post....See MoreNeed more layout help please! Ikea kitchen
Comments (6)My guess is that you don't want to move windows, doors, plumbing etc. I would orient the island so that you have a long island facing the sink and the window. That way, the view from the island is through the window, which will be pleasing. Another option is to put a square shaped island, then you can sit on two sides of the island. L shaped island does not look good, (IMHO) and it will not function well because you will be squeezed in the L. I would move the sink to the left of the window as you look at it so the distance from the sink to frig is reduced. Is your window drawn properly? That is a rather low from the ceiling window. Did there used to be soffits that you are taking out? If you are taking out the soffits and not raising/enlarging the windows, I think it will look odd. You may have to spend some money and raise the window appropriately.... I have a similar L with a center island. Frig/range then to sink. It actually works quite well for me. I don't need/want the water source on the island. The skinny uppers next the hood does not cut it. It needs to be balanced with long horizontal shelves perhaps... I have my speed oven mounted under the counter on the island. It works fine for me. This is not so popular here, however. Kitchen design is a balance of esthetics and function. What functions you accept may not suit another user. Pay attention to what functions/esthetics are important to you not what others think are important to you. 10 years ago, the rage was the two level island. I loved my 1 level island then and I would not budge from the position. Now, one level is more popular I also LOVE my island without a sink on it. Again, not a popular choice. But this works better for me..... Another option for your kitchen, since it is so big is to fill the left side wall (where the frig is) with solid wall of cabinets/frig/pantry/wall oven. Then you have the island and 17 ft counter space to work with. This is a popular European plan. They often fill one of their walls completely....See MoreLayout help - please help make this more than 1 person kitchen
Comments (17)I'm just talking out loud - maybe some stuff applies and maybe it doesn't. I'm looking at the 42" aisles - they are less than the recommended minimum of 48" for a multi-cook kitchen. Some people are sensitive to stuff like that and some aren't. But I think about what cooking with each other AND the swarm in the aisles would be like ... People take the shortest route all the time - its not necessarily the same as the route that would make you happiest. So, there is a certain pile-up of stuff that clogs the route to other stuff - again a little uncertain of "The Way of The Swarm". BUT the ref and the drinks ref create a pile-up on the dining room side, clogging that aisle. The same clog might explode through the work area if DW doors are open and get in the way of table setting operations. People setting the table would need to be under extreme duress (aka, parental intimidation) to walk the dishes around the outside edge of the island instead of cutting through the work zone to the informal dining. It makes for a challenge. I'd be tempted to go more like the below (just an idea). It sorta shows two island shapes, one dotted, one solid - and it certainly would need more thought. So - instead of butler's pantry, I'm thinking scullery. Dish storage can be in wall cabinets above the sink and in one section of the pantry if you've got a lot. The ref moves back out into the perimeter and becomes twins with a nice fat aisle in front - complete with micro for reheating leftovers or melting sandwiches. It has 3 decent work areas plus a 4th in the scullery. It does not solve the cut through traffic to the informal dining, but takes away some of the strain in the aisle. The scullery can be devoted to a bar without impacting the main kitchen. The pantry area can certainly be enclosed and either look like this or push the doorway back over almost to the dining room wall and have one wall of regular cabinets and one wall of 12" deep shelves. It might help start some other thoughts. I'd also try an "L" shape with the leg on the dining side (runs away)...See MoreMore layout help needed
Comments (12)I think a 36 inch walkway between the island and pantry is too constrictive. I love a walk in pantry, but I would make it about 1/3 less deep with a a 26/30 inch door and 10-12 inch deep shelves on both sides and 12-15 shelf on the back wall. (more of a step in pantry.) If you can move the wall. Or maybe you could cut back the corner where the walk way is tight and make a corner pantry with the door on the diagonal....See More
huango
8 years agoJillius
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agotmnca, I like where you put the fridge very much.
However, it is awkward to have so much counter on the peninsula at the expense of stuffing a range into a corner (it's not comfortable to stand in front of a range positioned like that, especially if you are right handed -- it's an aspect of my old kitchen that I remodeled to get rid of) and smooshing the sink and range in together with very little counter where you need it.
Also, your peninsula appears to be only 24" deep. At that depth, things will fall/drip off the back. You either want a deeper counter (30" or 36" at least) or a wall behind the counter to help contain everything. However, simply deepening that counter as you have it will smoosh the range and sink together even more (unless you can steal a bit of space from the dining room?).
So, instead, I'd keep the general L-shape + fridge on the short wall as you have it (that seems about as roomy as things will get in this footprint), but I'd spread out the sink and range so you can have your big prep counter where it's more useful -- between the sink and the range.
You also might consider shortening the wall the fridge is on by just one foot. It's fine as it is, but there would be a world of difference between how roomy the kitchen will feel in the work triangle if that doorway into the kitchen is 48" wide instead of 36" wide. From the foyer, I don't think you'll miss the foot. It'll still feel like a foyer -- just roomier. You'll have to get a different kind of door stop since the door knob will no longer be hitting the wall, but that is a very cheap and easy swap.
I presume there is no chance you could make the window full-length?
sheloveslayouts
8 years ago
funkycamper
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoI would be fine with either BB's plan or your plan with a few tweaks. First tweaks = everything Huango said. Better work flow and would allow for more visiting while prepping.
My tweak would be to use a hidden hood over the range and then use a shorter cabinet over the sink to match the height of the hidden hood cabinet. Even if you're not at the sink a lot, it would still be nice to not have cabinets so in your face. And this would make your kitchen look more streamlined which is, I think important in a small space.
Something like this for the hood but then having the same shorter cabinet above the sink instead of the taller cabinet over the sink as shown here.
Larkin Street Residence - John Maniscalco Architecture · More InfoETA: Jillius was posting when I was writing mine so I just saw her post and she makes excellent points. Another great idea. Isn't it nice to have several good ideas to choose from?
rebunky
8 years agoJillius
8 years agoTmnca
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agosheloveslayouts
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoTmnca
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agobenjesbride, oh definitely not offended by you bringing that point up - there is barely enough flooring to patch the area under the window... but if we had to patch in the middle of an area (especially a highly visible area like that) then we'd have to replace planks on both sides of the patch area - since the planks are randomly overlapping. Not sure if I described it well, but essentially it's easier/less material to patch an area against a wall for that reason. And I have to assume more patching will be needed around some areas due to damage from demo etc. I'm actually nervous that something will happen and we won't have enough even for the window area. The flooring and the fact that we really really like the serving bar configuration with either a pass through or peninsula for entertaining. We just don't want to give that up!
Here are a couple more. The first plan is simply switching the fridge and range, more or less. We'd have to add a few inches to the wall where the fridge is, but we can still make that doorway wide enough by using the pass-through wall width to gain he inches back on the peninsula. This would not entail any plumbing moves, but it's not as good for food storage as the ones with pantries. And those evil space-wasting corners... colors are not changed on this one and I would add another wall cabinet at the end it disappeared somewhere. This is still some improvement over what we have, I think. The dishwasher placement is not ideal but no worse than what we have now. Minimal or no floor patching.
Oh and for "skinny" peninsula we can add an overhang of countertop along the back to widen, I just can't draw that in the planner. Or if we squeeze the DR table over and move the fixture we could add 15" cabinets, but I think that might be too much squish. I might "hack" something with shallow open shelves under an overhang.
And then here is the beautiful but probably expensive sink in the peninsula version. It has it all, pretty much!
But now I am wondering - is it a problem to not have a nearby surface to set things on from the fridge? I guess I could get a little kitchen cart or something to sit below the window, and transport items from the fridge to the prep area, as long as it fit between the drawers and pantry.
lisa_a
8 years agoHere's another to mull over, one that does not require moving your plumbing, which will save you money. I used IKEA cab sizes. There's a couple hacks but I'm sure nothing that hasn't been done before.
Sink stays put with DW to it's left (from above). The base area between DW and wall will be empty, just structure to support the counter and upper cab that rests on the counter. We stopped at IKEA over the weekend and saw this set-up, see cabs, left side to see what I propose.You can either have a wider aisle (49") or add a 6" deep cab to the side of the pantry cabs, facing the fridge. This will be a hack. You can store a surprising amount of pantry goods in a 6" deep cab. You could also turn part of it into a charging station, Command Center, etc. Or you could make it open display, somewhat like this:
Or this:
Nabors · More Info
mango design co · More InfoI moved the fridge to the top wall, extending the wall partway to hide the back of the fridge. Yes, you'll see the fridge from the front door but you won't see if from your living areas plus it will be handy to grab drinks and snacks with it placed in the doorway.
I reduced the wall's depth to the left of the fridge so that the fridge doors can open unhindered.
I moved the range to about where the fridge used to be.
You've got storage and loads of counter, continuous counter, too, which is always a plus. This plan will allow 2 cooks to work in the kitchen. That's a little harder to do in your proposed plan because there's limited counter between sink and range.
The 5" wide cabs are also hacks. I'd suggest keeping them open and storing cutting boards and such in them but with cats, that's not a good idea. Cat hair everywhere! DH said that it must have some kind of nutritional value but I think he was just trying to make light of the situation. =)
Anyhoo, here's how those spaces could be used.
Retro Minneapolis Kitchen · More InfoOr, you can custom make a cutting board to fit the space, like this:
In Frame Shaker Kitchen in Green Blue & Wimborne White · More InfoI increased the opening between kitchen and DR, extending the counter over the half wall. If you can completely open the wall to the right, I think that would look really nice.
I did a slight tweak to the above.
All I did was ditch the 38" corner cab in the lower right corner in favor or wider drawers between corner and range. As with the corner next to the DW, this area will be void, nothing more than structure to support the counter.I can seem crazy to not use the corners in a small kitchen but IMO, when you gain wider drawers, you come out ahead. Corner storage is not the most efficient use of space. Plus the mechanisms are kinda spendy.
There will be very little floor repair required in Plan A & B and slightly less structural/wall repair, both of which will also help the budget.
Tmnca
8 years agolisa_a
8 years ago
Jillius