Curious ewwmayo, how do you make use of the Parrot Flower Power in your smaller pots? I came across this product in the store today and it's actually quite big (the store owner mentioned the entire metal portion of the probe needs to be inserted into the soil?). It's even taller than most of my small pots!

Also, given most of my mixes are pretty gritty (e.g. pure pumice for some), and not 'mushy & paste-like' (like peat soil which would make it easy to stick this probe into), how easy it is in reality to insert the probe into said mix?

Can't believe I missed this awesome post when it first came out. You're plants are showing some really nice progression and the record keeping makes me envious. :)

Are those graphs part of the app that comes with the monitoring device or is that a program you use independently?

Makes me think I need some better quality photos with dates on them to track progress. Sounds like a day off project to me. Now I just need a day off.

I was thinking that, too! I completely missed this thread. You always inspire me to track my plants better. I am amazed that you had that much improvement in that many plants in just 6 months!

I just got an E. purpusorum a couple weekends ago and was reading how slow of a grower they tend to be. Mine looks just how yours did in your before picture. I am hoping I am able to replicate your success.

You have some really nice compact growth on all, but especially the Silver Dollar jade. I do not have the best setup for my more favorable jades right now. I will probably be researching your methods that you mentioned in this thread a bit to try to improve.

I am glad you are having such wonderful outcomes with your plants.

-Erica

Obi - The Parrot Flower Power does work in gritty and sandy mixes. The exact moisture % reading is dependent on the particular mix and it's contact area with the sensor. In the FAQ I believe Parrot confirms it is good for sandy mixes.

Because of this, I recommend following data trends rather than the instantaneous values. This applies to any moisture meter used with a high porosity mix.

Water when the moisture loss rate plateaus / slows - when the plant encounters difficulty extracting water from the soil mix. This is typically around 16% and depends on your mix composition and plant species. It's an exponential decay curve, so it is easy to see on a graph.

I did some 'sanity checks' with my mint plant (wilts readily when not enough water) and this helped confirm the moisture sensor readings are reasonable/accurate. You can use succulent species too, but their response rates are slower and you must know exactly what to look for.

Yes, the entire PCB portion of the sensor must be inside the soil mix. I do not recommend using it with a pot less than 4.5" deep. My mix is 60%+ granite grit, so I am careful when inserting the probe.

The probe/sensor portion is quite stiff and sturdy, but I am careful to not damage it. I use metal chopsticks to create a 'slot' in the soil mix and then insert the probe. It's important to 'settle' the mix around the probe for good contact. My method is to tap the bottom of the pot and water thoroughly after inserting it as recommended by Parrot.

Here is the Flower Power Sensor in a 6" orchid pot (sorry image is overexposed).

Nicholas - The graphs are part of my monitoring device. There is a android/iphone app and online web interface, which is quite convenient. I use a separate program to get my actual DLI numbers, since it requires calculating the area under the logarithmic curve.

Many thanks for the kind comments!

With digital, my dates are always encoded into the images. =) A simple habit is to always bring my phone for quick images when I check on my plants or water them. If I see something interesting/different/troubling, then I take a photo. I also take periodic progress images just in case something is happening and I just didn't notice it.

I think I take so many pictures because I'm fairly new to being a 'keen grower'. I've owned succulents for maybe 12+ years now, but never with such an extensive collection and dedication? For sure nowhere close to many other members around the forums here.

Usually succulents give small hints/indications of trouble before they actually become big problems. I'm still learning a lot and the photos help me go back and see exactly when the problem started and understand what to look for.

Here are my Gibbaeums from the weekend - still can't tell if they are growing new leaves or buds growing. But I started watering again!

Erica - Thanks and happy to help! I've been really pleased with how things have turned out so far, so hopefully the next six months will be just as good.

E. purpusorum is definitely a bit of a slow grower, but not my slowest. I give mine as much light as possible. The leaves look very plump unless it gets excessively dehydrated. Please post updates on yours as well!

C. aborescens is growing much faster than expected. I give a lot of light, but not too much? If intensity is too close/bright then it doesn't seem to grow as much.

Mine grew throughout the summer and lots more in the fall. With winter it's still growing, but I have to be careful not to over water, otherwise the older leaves can get too fat and start to split.

Let me know if you have any other questions. =)

Hi, Thanks for sharing your plants.

I have a question? what kind of mix are you using for your plants?? i don't see soil on your succulents? Your mix looks like the one for bonsai trees.

Can we plant the succulents without soil?

Thanks for sharing again.

Danny

Thank you for the information Eww. I'm the same way in that I've been growing succulents for years but never really, truly appreciated them before. Only recently have I become obsessive about them to the point of spending all spare time/money on them in one way or another.

For example I wish I could purchase those digital instruments for all of my plants but that will not happen, so it's back to excel and spot checking.

May I ask where you got your E. purpusorum?

Danny - I've posted in your other thread. =)

Nicholas - Agreed! I think observation is probably the most important 'tool' anyway. I got my E. purpusorum from a local garden center / nursery. It was part of a new shipment they received and they had a lot!

Thanks ewwmayo for the info. I've gone ahead to purchase it today and unfortunately when testing it out, found it's even taller than I had thought seeing it in boxed up in the store! Most of my pots are barely 3-ish inches tall (most of mine are small/young specimens), with only like 2 in slightly taller plastic pots. Guess I might have to find a set of taller/bigger pots and go through a repotting exercise, or just be intent with keeping tabs on those 2 larger plants for now :D

ewwmayo(ON-CA 6a)
Amazing progress! Thank you for sharing. I've had a gollum similar to yours for about 3 years in a well draining soil but it only has had indoor light, and for the last year some direct afternoon light but it's barely grown at all or changed in those three years! I'm astounded at how fast your's have grown.

Dang. Your work is so impressive and well rewarded. I'm feeling more than a twinge of self consciousness about my own cultivation habits. Big, big props to your expertise!

Obi - You may be able to find a taller but skinnier pot to 'represent your whole collection'. Like you, I have many small 2" and 2.5" pots. Sometimes they dry out a little faster than my big pots, sometimes about even. All depends how vigorously the plant in them is growing (and what you have in them).

It'll get easier and more useful as you get more data. At first, I found it difficult to understand what the data meant and what action (if any) to take. Feel free to post any of your data anytime if you want to discuss and compare.

Claire - I appreciate the great comments! I had no idea my Gollum would do so well either. What really kicked off growth for me was having the roots finally be well-established in my mix and lots of light.

Bringing it outside for the summer helped a huge amount, as did grow lights indoors. It was under full sun (with a clear plastic sheet protecting from rain) on my rooftop all summer. Fall/winter has been the best with the cooler temperatures.

I'm watering it well throughout the year so far and fertilizing it every other watering (MG 12-4-8 at 600 EC / which is close to what the bottle recommends for container plants).

Dorkstenia - Thanks!! Hopefully I can keep the good work up over the next 6 months. Every season brings a new set of interesting challenges and learning.

That echeveria purpusorum really took off. I think of that one as more of a gremlin than my other echeveria. (Gremlins are what I call plants that you can't get wet)

I really want one of the crassula morgans beauty, anyone know where I can buy one?

Todd - I found mine at a local family-run greenhouse. Haven't seen any at big box stores or garden centers before.

Well, winter is now over and it's time for another update on my plants! This round will be a completely new set of plants, all of which are slow growers. Sounds exciting doesn't it? Haha.

To me, they've changed a lot and come a long way. They are bigger, some have grown flatter, and nearly all have taken on a deeper colouration.

It's been a lot of fun growing my collection of 'Winter Growers' so there is definitely action year-round for me! =)

Adromischus maculatus, Antegibbaeum fissoides, Aloinopsis rosulata, Faucaria felina subsp. tuberculosa

Lithops helmutii C271, Lithops terricolor C132, Lithops terricolor C345

Nice.... But where are the IMPORTANT plants????? Haworthia?????

Thought I would go a bit off topic about one of my recent STC acquisitions. I accidentally knocked it loose from its moorings. It was rootless when planted about March 15th. Didn't have much hope for survivability.... now the question has been answered! I'm hoping those small brown nubs will produce more roots.

Howard - Haha, I totally left my Haworthia out on purpose! It has been 6 months already... for my next update maybe. =)

That one root is looking pretty promising. More to come for sure. I don't like to disturb my rooting plants much, but if I accidentally knock one over it's always a good time to check how it's really doing under the soil.

Ok, how do you keep track of your pictures? I've tried 5 different collection/database apps on my phone, but haven't found one that I love. I found one that I liked a LOT, but after about 15 plants I got a notification that I'd used all of the free storage and my next option was $5.99 a month....

Ewwmayo, or anyone else, is this amount of growth really normal for 6 months or is it higher than average?

Beautiful plants by the way, I loved looking at your pictures!

I am just wondering if most succulents SHOULD grow this much, because mine haven't really, and not sure if I am doing something wrong culturally, or if the amount of growth that your plants have shown is NOT the norm?

Amy - I sort my photos in two ways:

• DSLR photos are put in folders labelled by date (per day).
• Phone photos are backed up to my computer in folders (by months).

I keep an excel spreadsheet where I have growing notes for each species I grow. If anything interesting/unusual happens, I take a photo and include the date in my growing notes for that plant.

• This helps me find old photos quicker, since I can check my notes for the date and then find the right folder for the photos.
• On my phone, I just keep a single album of my best plant photos. I like to have at least one good photo of each plant, preferably with it flowering.

A S - There are so many talented growers here, I'm not really sure what the average would be! The goal is definitely to have my plants do very well.

• At least for several species, I think I did much better than 'average'. Two good examples are my Echeveria purpusorum and Adromischus maculatus. Both are supposed to be very slow growers, but they did very well for me this year.
• For the plants that I'm growing, I want to believe they at least look a lot nicer than they did when I got them? More compact, more colourful. It is a bit of a trade off though because while stressed plants look very nice, they do grow a bit slower.

If you're not seeing as much growth as you'd like, it could be something cultural. I find following the most important:

1. Good soil --> root health.
2. Lighting conditions --> maximum possible before stressing plant.
3. Fertilization --> ensure this does not limit growth.

#1 is probably the trickiest because once you pot a plant, you don't get to see how the roots are doing. Sometimes it takes a few attempts to get just the right mix for a plant, but the effort is worth it.

• If a soil isn't working well, I don't hesitate to change or improve it. It's far easier to unpot and check progress than keep guessing all the time.
• Once you get a good soil going, repotting becomes a quick and easy task, with minimal root damage. The big plus is that re-establishing roots takes minimal time and normal growth is resumed quickly.
• I've now repotted many plants (from a pot of my mix, not original mix) that were budding or flowering and they did not have any problems whatsoever. Not recommended, but it's a sign that repotting doesn't have to be very stressful on the plant.

#2 is a bit easier, if you have enough light to work with. This requires careful observation for signs of stress. For most species this is not too difficult, because they start to change colour.

• It me a took a long time to figure out how much light is required to get the desired look for my plants, but I achieved that it was much easier. Took a lot of pot shuffling! (This applies to indoor and outdoor growing.)
• With good light, the challenge then just becomes figuring out how much light a plant can happily handle. Often, this changes over time as roots establish further.

#3 is something I'm still learning about and working on. At least right now, I'm trying to make sure this isn't holding my succulents back.

• In general, I think fertilization is one of the most poorly understood aspects to growing. It's complicated, hard to measure, and hard to see the direct result.
• There are so many myths and misconceptions, that most of my time has been spent debunking them.
• For example, I've constantly fertilized all of my Lithops and Mesembs for the past year and they haven't gotten soft/mushy/gangly. Many already completed their re-absorption cycles without any issues.
• The most important concept is that plants use nutrients as required, their purpose is not to encourage growth/blooming/etc. Essentially, fertilizer helps enable succulents to grow well.

Well, this turned out to be a lot longer than what I expected to write. Hopefully it at least helps and includes some things you were wondering about or wanted to discuss!

Since some people have heckling me about not posting any updates on my Haworthia, so here's another set of progress photos! =)

I'll keep the text to a minimum - this time it's all about the plants:

Haworthia: 'Crystal Ball', 'Rioja', 'Colvir'.

Haworthia: 'Shin Mizumo', Sp., 'Murasaki'.

Job well done!!! Your are looking better than mine. You should be very proud of your efforts.

Is your 'Kegani x Korizato', STC 81207

A S

Kevin described his way of growing + some excellent observations/tips.

In my opinion, the growth he gets is not really normal/average - unless one can supply similar conditions (I am referring to growing indoors, under light, in colder locations).

If you can supply the amount of light + temps + fertilize as he does, you should expect same - similar results. Obviously, that includes well draining mix...

He has it down to 'science' and the results are there. Some refer to his way of growing 'showroom' type, and many suggest to grow plants the way they would be in their natural habitat. I don't think there is right or wrong way. It all depends on what one can supply to their plants & how much effort is spent. And he does it without heated greenhouse (I think that would make it easier).

I would love all my plants to grow as Kevin's with my amount of effort, and under my conditions...not quite possible :(

Rina/Ewwmayo, thank you for responding. Especially Ewwmayo, thank you for all of those details. I don't think there is a right or wrong way either, I am just so envious of all of his plants!

I THINK I have soil down, and have as much light as I can get, so I think now that it is springtime especially would be a good time to try fertilizing.

One more question- I notice some of your plants look a bit overpotted in their "before" picture, for example the Gollum and the cymbiformis in your first post. Would you say that is helpful as well? I typically pot my plants so the roots have about 1.5" of empty space below, because I don't like the look of an overpotted plant and to save space, but now I'm wondering if more space for the roots would be good?

Howard - I am proud! Happy to see results. Yes, Kegani x Korizato' is STC 81207. =)

Rina - Never really thought of my style of growing, interesting! It is true that I am not really growing them that much like in habitat. Some of my Mesembs are a little 'bountiful', but I am trying to not have them growing too unnaturally.

One day, I hope to at least have a couple artistic pots with rocks or wood. I really like that aesthetic. Suppose right now I have enough on my hands just learning how to grow things in the first place.

A S - So many different ways to grow, I agree. Still trying to learn as much as I can.

My C. 'Gollum' and H. cymbiformis were overpotted with the hope that they would fill out. Is it helpful? Somewhat. I think it was good that those two aren't very picky species, so if they were over watered a little it wasn't a problem.

I suppose pot sizes really do limit succulents somewhat. Even though most of my plants have been in gritty mixes for less than a year, I'm pretty sure nearly all are root bound already. So with larger pots, that would take longer to happen and they (plant and roots) would have a bit more room to expand.

A bit of overpotting is manageable, like in those 6" clay orchid pots (with side slits). But in a 8" pot, it would be way more trouble than it's worth.

Yes, I don't mean absurdly overpotted, just a little bit so, like in some of your "before" pictures. I think I may try a teeny but bigger pot size for my next plant.

Thank you for sharing your pictures and for sharing so much of your knowledge!

My oh my! Such well grown plants! Great results from all the work you are putting into it. Couldn't find what you feed your succulents, esp. for haworthias and how often.

"Fertilization --> ensure this does not limit growth."
Also, I may have missed your elaboration on this part of your post.

Aztcqn - Appreciated! I'm using Miracle Gro 12-4-8 liquid. I dilute to a concentration of 0.6mS/cm and fertilize every other watering. This provides a fairly even amount of nutrients in my soil, very close to my target level.

Since I am watering every 4 days now, that ends up being once a week. I don't really want to say it's "weakly weekly" because I'm really going for something much more specific.

I am also using DNF Gro A 2-0-2 and Gro B 0-1-3, but only because they were free. When the bottles run out, I'm not going to buy more of them.

"Fertilization --> ensure this does not limit growth."

My mix is fairly inorganic with low CEC, so I was concerned that over time the amount of available nutrients would limit plant growth. That is the basis for me constantly providing a small amount of nutrients.

The idea for me is that plants take nutrients as required and as long as there is no significant excess, there is no harm. For example, my Lithops and other Mesembs aren't growing abnormally leafy or crazy, even though I fertilize them frequently.

I once considered this approach being slightly wasteful of fertilizer, but think it's actually more efficient. This became most apparent to me when trying to maintain a nutrient level of 6mS/cm outside in my vegetable garden. Every time it rained, I pretty much had to fertilize again. So many of the nutrients are flushed out at higher concentrations that it's a struggle to keep them there.

The whole notion of "growing succulents hard" is becoming more strange to me as time progresses. Maybe as an aesthetic approach it makes sense? But for actually making healthy and more resilient plants, it doesn't seem very logical.

Been a long time since I've updated this post, so here are a few more before and after photos! Hard to tell as the pot sizes are all different, but the overall differences should be observable.

1. Crassula 'Morgan's Beauty': 1 year, 8 months
2. Duvalia corderoyi: 11 months
3. Haworthia 'Omori': 1 year, 8 months
4. Anacampseros rufescens: 1 year, 7 months
5. Adromischus maculatus: 1 year, 6 months
6. Echeveria purpusorum: 1 year, 10 months

Most filled up their pots already and I think I'm stunting them so they don't grow any larger! No space to grow massive specimen plants here in Ontario - too cold in the winter and no place to put them.

I never tire of this thread. You just grow the plants so well! Amazing....

Thanks for reviving this thread Kev. Your work is amazing, and your plants make me drool :-)

That purpusorum has gotten scary big lol! Truly a monster. i have one the size of the before pic (or a bit smaller) and it recently put out 4 tiny flowers! Cant imagine the giant flower stalk that yours can put out! Great job!

Thanks Nick, it is a monster! Still hasn't flowered yet - I've only owned it for 1.5 years so maybe it's not old enough yet? Really hoping this year it will do it. Congrats on yours flowering. =)

I, on the other hand, completely missed this!!

Okay, gang. It's spring, so let's everyone take photos of their plants this April and then again in autumn so Kevin can start a 2017 thread before our plants go in for winter!

Oh. Guys in the south will have to turn that around the other way.

Please do. Every time I look back on old photos I think how bad some of my plants looked. Still learning!

Kevin, after seeing your plants yesterday, it was so much fun to go over this thread and recognize 'friends'. Your plants are amazing seen in reality, and I was truly impressed with the beautiful colour and the compactness of your plants, also mesembs, even with regular fertilizing. I will try to give mine a bit more for dinner too, once they are in the sun.

Love this thread, especially the before/after pics. I take more of a look at the plant, lift and feel the pot (I grow mostly in clay pots), and poke at the mix approach when it comes to watering. The most high tech I ever get is a wood skewer stuck into the mix, and that's pretty rare. I really like reading about a more detail oriented scientific approach. Makes me want to try it out :)

Clay pots are definitely better. Was sad to make the switch but it simplified my life significantly simply because of space and the way I water.

I'm still using my meters consistently and finding them helpful. Think I just like quantifying things and that helps me understand what's going on. Don't have 20-30 years of growing experience to lean on like many others here, so I need to discover faster ways to learn and get my plants up to that level.

Love what you've done. Your succulents look amazing and are really inspirational. What is your lighting setup? Have you shared it before? It would be really helpful to know (and see!)

Kevin posted lots about his growing. Did you search this forum? There are few, and here is just one of his threads -please click me-

I really enjoy before and afters. Really cool. Good growing.

Alisa,

His lighting setup is the best part of his collection.

Thanks Rina and Palm! Today was such a nice day right now, I wish I could keep my plants out there. But the forecast is still too cold at night - around 1C later this week.

My rooftop succulent shelter survived the winter with no issues at all. Can hardly tell it was a major storm this afternoon.

Here is my main T5HO lighting setup today.

Some Haworthia under my second setup.

Assortment of succulents under my third setup. And my forth isn't so exciting (no photo for now) with just rooting plants and others staying at my home temporarily while my friends travel.

@Rina Yes, I have and was wading through posts. Thanks for the link! :)
@Palms Haha, it is impressive indeed.
@Kevin Thanks for sharing your latest lighting setup :) It's beautiful, your succulents look so cheery. Am figuring out how best to do an indoor lighting setup in a shady apartment, don't have a good place for them at all. Am learning a lot from your posts.

Conny - Thanks for adding to the thread! Lots of progress in your Haworthia. Getting that springbok to plump up in a short time is great. Lots of improvement over just one month.

Alisa - My home isn't that bright either. The windows are shaded most of the year. Luckily I have a rooftop to work with in the summer.

Put a lot of effort into my lights, even though it is a very simple setup. Works for me though!

Super old thread but I thought it would be fun to have a "4 years after" post! Houzz ate my last post so I'm going to try this in parts...

Most of my plants did very well over the years, until least year where I had a major fungal problem and it killed many of my best plants extremely quickly. I wasn't able to stop the fungus at the time and lost a large portion of my collection. Now I have some fungicide and can handle such a problem, but the damage is already done.

Crassula aborescens has been downsized in pot but thickened up substantially. Many leaves are damaged due to squirrel attacks this summer. Overall I can't believe the difference. Echeveria purposorum (or likely dionysis) has gotten substantially taller with a very thick stem. I find it hard to balance watering so the leaves don't dry out on the bottom but also don't split from too much water.

Alworthia 'Black Gem' was sold off and the offsets were kept in far too bright light until yesterday. Hopefully one of them survives! I put it in a better spot now. Crassula 'Gollum' has grown upwards and outwards, looking very different from years ago. It's in a smaller pot because I couldn't handle growing a huge specimen indoors over winter.

I never had good luck with Pleiospilos nelii for some reason, even though other Pleiospilos are not a problem at all. In general my mesembs have grown a lot and look more 'aged' and chunky rather than small and cute. Crassula 'tricolor' has been downsized to a smaller pot and much smaller leaves due to higher light now. The bigger pot made such a big different and it has really slowed down growth since.

Continuation from above! Resizing the images to be much smaller helped a lot.

Gibbaeum is not super fast growing with only a couple new leaves per year. The squirrels did a number on this one, as well as some lasting leaf damage from the fungal problems over winter. Stomatium has grown so much that you can't even see the bigger pot I have it in. The older leaves tend to dry up so it looks a bit scraggly now. My beloved rabiea died after so many years this winter due to fungus. It was at least six times the size and a huge clump, very sad!

Gasteria pillansii has been downsized into a much smaller pot to make space for other plants in my collection. Since being restricted, it is not able to keep many leaves but does flower reliably each year. My absolute favourite Morgan's Beauty was lost to the fungus last winter. My biggest loss since this beautiful plant flowered so much for me every year and had tripled in size. Neohenricia is a bit scraggly now. It's tough to keep this one looking perfect all the time, especially as it gets older!

Crassula perfoliata var minor tripled in size and I beheaded it to save space. It flowered every year before, so I will see now how it does. The single sempervivum is now growing outside all year long and showing some lovely hues for summer. Lastly, Gasteria 'Little Warty' flowered for the first time in 5 years for me. It's not that much bigger honestly Aand I've removed many of the offsets.

And that's it for now! Hope you enjoyed those changes over the years and hopefully you may be includes to share your own "before and after" photos. =)

This is awesome, fun and so useful. I really wish I had your passion and gift for documentation. I am growing thousands of plants, mostly outdoors, many in ground, and lots of small containers. I am lucky to have space and northern California weather suitable for year round outdoor growing for most of my plants. But I envy your locales narrower pest profile and the wonderful controlled conditions you've been able to create with your beautiful indoor set-ups. Thanks so much for the work you put into sharing:-)

Kevin

Your plants are beautiful. Sorry to hear you lost some to the fungus.

Very much agree with what Lisa said above about your dedication, your knowledge you share with us and certainly your thorough documentation.

Kevin, it is so I interesting to see your plants again after four years. Using pot size to restrict plant size is a good idea that I might need one of these days, though I have just moved some plants into bigger pots ;-). That Cheiridopsis pillansii is a beauty, as is the Stomatium. And your Neohenricia is still alive after these years! I must have killed three at least. I love that little thing.

@lisasfbay9b - Thanks and that's quite a collection you must have! Very jealous of your growing conditions and space! I have to be so picky on what I grow because virtually everything has to come inside for the winter each year. I guess I could grow some optunia, but my flowerbeds really don't get enough light for that.

@rina_Ontario,Canada 5a - Much appreciated. =) It's been a learning experienced a quite a bit of regret over the past year or so for my mistakes too.

@gdinieontarioz5 - Bigger pots is the easy solution because things stay looking nice and pretty as they grow. Also I realize that I found out a long while back it's not Chiridopsis pillansii, rather it is Ihlenfeldtia vanzylii. It never flowered for me yet, so here is hoping this fall it happens.

I have been trying to root a couple pieces of Neohenricia so if they take and grow you are welcome to have a piece. They are a little tricky to take care off, probably due to their small leaves and shallow roots.