I think I alternated banner maxx with Compass, back when I used to spray my roses, which was back when it used to rain here. Have you tried Compass?

Instead of that awful and expensive Bayer 3-in-1 (you don't need all the extra insecticides and fertilizers), just buy the fungicide only by Bayer: Bayer Advanced Disease Control for Roses, Flowers, and Shrubs. It is cheaper and much more effective and you might not need to spray so often with it. You will need to buy a 2 gal plastic sprayer container --cheap at Home Depot for about $20.00. It will last a long time.

Are you really spraying every week? Surely every 2-3 weeks would be sufficient.

Good luck,

Kate

I don't spray any more but used to use. I used Banner Maxx for one of the sprays. It cost more up front. However the amount used in a 4 gallon sprayer was a very small amount. It ended up being the most economical for me.

In the day I had wanted a quality Atomic sprayer as they accomplish the task using far less spray material. Was to expensive at the time.

Agree with Kate. You don't need the 3-1 it's overkill and won't help that much with blackspot. I've been using Honor Guard, which is a cheaper version of Banner Max. I used up my Bayer. It's more expensive than what you can buy in the store, but you use much less of it. You can get it on Rosemania.

The Bayer Advanced Garden Disease Control for Roses, Flowers, and Shrubs is also available at Lowes stores.

Hoovb, thanks for the heads up on Compass. I'll check it out.

Kate, I'll see if I can find that one, although the reason I use the 3-in-1 stuff is to control chili thrips which is my primary problem all year long. At this time of the year I also start dealing with sudden black die back that comes up and down the cane, so I definitely need to rotate my fungicide.

Patty/Bufford, I use the generic version version of banner maxx and honour guard sold on Amazon for under $30. It does the trick for the most part, but like I said I need to alternate in order to prevent developing resistance.

Thanks to everyone for your advice!

HA.... Just when I almost have my spray program down.... now you are thinking of changing. :) I want to be kept in the loop of which sprays you get because I have/had an awful infestation of chili thrips. They almost got the best of me before I realized what has happening to my roses. What a difference. Thanks to your spray program.

I do have a few questions.... as always.

What is the generic version of the sprays that you are using.

Do you have a picture of the black cane dieback. I think I have that.... and my (your) spray program isn't really touching it. I would like to nip it in the bud ... so to speak. Though it really is a cane issue. I lost my Sharifa Asman from this. It just kept dying.

I am also having problem with whitefly.... But I don't think it is the same whitefly that most people think of like the kind that normally gets on tomato plants... been there done that... but the whitefly that is notorious in decimating and killing ficus trees and hedges in Florida. My neighbor (and neighorhood) has a huge problem with this kind of whitefly and I notice now that their hedges are almost destroyed their whitefly has started attacking my banyan tree, coconut palms, and now my roses. I can spray pesticide one day and still see whitefly tomorrow. Any thoughts?

Also, one last insect that I just hate and is a white hard shelled weevil. It was in lychee and citrus trees. Nothing I sprayed on it seemed to work. The gardener sprayed some kind of triple action organic insect/fungus (cide) on the them. It looked like it had snowed. However, his product had neem oil in it so I can't use it on the roses.

If you spray and it rains, because of mister weatherman is never correct on his predictions), do you reapply or just wait til your next day in the rotation?

Do you have to fight any of these other insects as well... and if so what do you use.

What is this "black cane dieback" you people are talking about? Cause by chili thrips? Or what?

Dublinbay, I am not sure what it is as I am trying to figure it out. I don't know if it is a fungus or damage from insects. I do not have a way to upload a picture, but I will try and describe how my sharifa died.

After a flower was cut from the plant, the stem would start to turn black and die down a few inches. If I cut the black or dead part off - even if I cut a few inches below the black infected area- the green would turn black a few days later. Cutting off the black part did not stop the die back. The cane would keep turning black.

This happens on several of my rose plants. I use pruners which I dip in clorox bleach to disinfect the sheers.

I knew Sharifa was in trouble when I noticed one of her canes not only was dying from the top down in dieback but that she also had a black streak in the cane that was going fro the middle of the cane up. I thought this might be a a fungus, but I used fungicide to try and get rid of it to no avail.... I am hoping to find out what is causing my problem.... I was hoping Kublakan had a picture of his rose to determine if my problem is the same as his.... Pictures is how I normally identify problems...

Sharon, here are the answers to your questions in multiple responses:

Generic Banner Maxx:

http://www.amazon.com/Propiconazole-Honor-Guard-Spectrum-Fungicide/dp/B004GTOHZU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448409012&sr=8-1&keywords=Propiconazole+14.3

The contact fungicide (I use a powder form that I buy from what used to be called Atlantic Fertilizer in Homestead (now Diamond Fertilizer):

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BWZ9JO/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1WJB349LV48O7&coliid=I2W4TWOA4EKUCA

http://www.amazon.com/Southern-Ag-Dithane-Disease-Control/dp/B00C30KA0U/ref=pd_sim_86_35?ie=UTF8&dpID=410jOHl6KVL&dpSrc=sims&preST=AC_UL160_SR97%2C160&refRID=03RYZN9VMN6TM33RXD3C

This has the same active insecticide that the Bayer product has. It was recommended to me by a man the works at a pest control store:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006Q4U8KQ/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1WJB349LV48O7&coliid=I3P1IAQWAV1M5S

I purchased this Sheila's Perfume in October. It was pretty small, but I figured she would grow. This is the fourth rose bush this happens to me this year. Once the black die back begins to work its way UP from the graft the chances of a recovery a slim to none. I don't expect to be able to save this one.

Conserve will help a bit with the white fly, but you need the big guns to fully take care of it. I would recommend using Neem Oil during bouts of cool weather like we've been having lately. It should NOT be used during hot weather days, as it will burn your leaves. I've noticed the white fly on my roses also, especially when I started up my spray program again after Halloween (didn't have time to spray before that). You get a real sense of it when you spray at night (like I do...bees...) and use a flash light. During the humid weather they would come up from the plants when I used the Bayer and Ortho stuff. I wouldn't doubt that the die-back is a result of the white fly chewing on the roses and introducing bacteria into the plants. Humidity is also a factor, I think, in the spread as most roses that were affected and died were placed in shady areas and displayed symptoms after heavy rains.

I have white and black weevils. My gardenia's seem to be their choice meal. I scrape them off or use the expensive Bayer granular and let it work its way up (down side it that bees and butterflies will be affected). Soapy water has been known to help, but most of what I've read says it has to be dealt with using a systemic insecticide.

I've never seen one of these on my roses, so I don't go crazy treating these critters.

Spraying down here has been such a pain in the @$$!!! Yes, I have had times when I spray to only find myself sitting in the rain as I spray my last rose bushes. I do not spray again until the following week. These chemicals will bond with the leaves, perhaps at a diluted rate depending on the amount of time between spray and rain, but the chemicals are there. I don't spray again for fear that it will turn into overkill and damage my roses. It's also not that great for the environment.

Kublakan, Thanks for the pictures. Yes! That is what mine looks like. I have a couple that have that blackish area at the graft area.... I have been applying fungicide around the graft in hopes of stopping the spread. I guess it is doomed, but still trying. Most of my bare root roses have this problem. It seems to me there is some kind of wax that his been applied to the canes, and that was is causing the problem. Do you ever purchase bare roots, or just those on Florida root stock. I would like to get that wax stuff off the canes, but have no idea how to get off. But I really think it causes more damage in the long run. Just my theory. However, my Sharifa did the same thing only she was an own root and her blackness came from the bottom area up. I think it started below ground. Once it started up the cane, the rate at which she declined expedited.

So please let me know which of the fungicides you are using to combat the problem.

I just hate the weatherman. I blame them for those two boys that got lost at sea during the summer. They had announced previously that day it was going to be a perfect day for boating. I even joked with my husband that we should take off work because it was going to be nice on Friday and rain the rest of the weekend. Anyways, the weatherman gets it so wrong, I can start spraying as you say end up in a shower or a down pour. Then I read the label of the product I'm spraying and it says it needs a half an hour before it gets wet and I just say $$$$ that was a waste of money. But you have reinforced my idea that it is better not to reapply until the next allotted time frame.

Thanks for you help. It is always appreciated.

Sharon

I don't think any spray can help with the black canes. That is canker that likely will kill the rose if you don't cut it off as far down as you can until you see healthy pith.

It may help to look at a weather map immediately before you spray to see if there is any approaching storms or signs of pop up thunderstorms. Where I live, thunderstorms are more likely in the afternoon and less likely in the morning.

Has anyone used Actinovate? Do you think it would help with canker?

I am with Dingo2001 in asking what to do about canker. This is another new term for me. What causes this? Is it a fungus or an insect or something totally different the cause. If one stem has this is the whole plant doomed or is it a hit or miss.

What is the best way to cure canker? Bufford, is back the only way? What if it is black all the way down to the graft. Do I cut it off at the graft? And what about when it is on an own root rose and seems to be coming up from the root system. Do I cut it off right at ground level. Do I have to worry about anything in the ground.

What causes this and do I prevent it in the future. I lost my Sharafa Asman and now I think I have problem with my Twilight Zone. Any help is appreciated.

Thank you

Happy Thanksgiving to Everyone!

Canker is a fungi. It is NOT caused by insects.

Here is what the Rose Magazine has to say on the topic:

"Controlling Stem Canker[link] is a combination of proper pruning procedures and appropriate fungicides.

1. As stated above, keep canes from crossing each other. Even if they appear not to be touching, wind and growth can change that condition.
2. Pruning out dead or dying wood during your regular visits to the garden is also essential.
3. And when planting new plants, use care not to damage canes. If you should damage a cane seriously, consider removing the cane entirely.
4. Likewise, when pruning or deadheading, cut back to the node. Failing to do so, results in dieback to the node, and the resulting dead wood is an invitation to canker spores.
5. As for fungicides, those that control black spot on ornamentals will also control canker."

That sounds as good as anything I know on the subject.

Hope that helps.

Kate

I would guess that the weakest roses would require the most diligent and complete removal of the diseased plant material--which would of course be contrary to what the rosarian might want to do. It is time consuming, but I typically clean the pruners whenever I cut into actual cane infections. I typically cut well below the infection. This is one of the benefits to wrapping canes with burlap for winter protection--the part of the cane covered by burlap is usually infection free.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/2807709/many-of-my-roses-have-canker?n=34

Scrub pruners with Lysol instead of dipping them in Clorox.

Cankers, diebacks and wilts are caused by pathogens that infect stems, branches and roots. Because these pathogens affect the water conducting tissues they are considered serious, and in many cases, life threatening. A canker is caused by either a fungal or a bacterial infection. It may appear as a localized lesion or as a discolored/distorted larger area associated with a stem, branch or trunk. Cankers often have discolored areas that become dried out and shriveled so that the outer tissue or bark is wrinkled. In other cases, cankers can appear similar to normal tissue, but show up as flat spots on woody branches or trunks. Cankers commonly enlarge to girdle stems, branches or trunks, killing the water-conducting tissues and causing the death of upper branches or terminal growth (top). This form of dieback can also be caused by root rot fungal pathogens that have invaded the roots or the crown of the plant at the soil line.

Diebacks and declines are often associated with large trees that have been under stress due to adverse environmental conditions such as drought, excess water, and temperature extremes. These stress factors, often combined with poor planting sites, are leading cause of tree mortality. Once dieback and decline are present corrective action may be difficult. Control is best focused on prevention and site improvement. Do not replant the same species into a location where a plant has died of a root problem without making significant site modifications. Ideally plant a different species that is better adapted to the site conditions.

Wilt diseases can be caused by either bacterial or fungal pathogens and result in the interruption of water and nutrient movement to the leaves. These are of the most serious plant disorders and may lead to death within weeks to months. Because pathogens become embedded in the host tissue, they are essentially protected from external control measures. Often there is very little that can be done to manage these problems except to lessen any water stress by improving drainage, or in the case of drought, applying water. Fungal wilt diseases are common in both woody and herbaceous plants. Bacterial wilts are more common for herbaceous plants.

http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/3000/3063.html

I don't think that rose is salvageable either. I frequently get this on new bare roots either in the ground or potted. They could have had the disease before I bought them and it takes awhile for it to take over. Sometimes I have a healthy cane above, even with blooms but once the black starts to creep up from the graft, it's a goner. Sorry. It rarely happens to established roses because there is more material there so you can cut away the canker and save the rose.

The black cane dieback may be a fungal cane canker or bacterial cane blight--caused by two different pathogens, one fungal, one bacterial. We get the blight here after wet, cold springs, and early pruning. Our university extension plant biologist recommended using Phyton 27 (don't confuse it with Physan 20, a disinfectant) which is a systemic fungicide and bacteriocide for these problems. You might try it. Gotta go and cook. Diane

Thanks for the information. I appreciate it and learn a lot.

Hope everyone had a happy thanksgiving.

I too have this problem of stem canker and what i call the black death. I had alot of it towards the end of the summer. I lost Elina, Sheilas Perfume, oregold, secret and most recently ingrid bergman. I even lost a very large potted Dames De Chenonceau to this which was shocking as its such a tough variety (and my favorite rose, good thing i had two others or i would have been devistated). Its tough to grow roses here in S. Fl. Sometimes you just have to replace the ones you loose. Keep Calm And Garden On.

I lost so many to this that I actually stopped growing roses for abit . It can really be depressing . Buttttttttt I'm back. Ordering a few austins. Growing roses in south florida is only for the most stubborn LOL

Update: I cut back all the die back as far as I could and applied the granular Bayer 3 in 1 and Mancozeb. Thus far existing canker has stopped and new growth has begun. We just had a hellish week of non-stop rain and I'm hoping that I won't have a recurrence of more canker.

Interesting. Do you have a picture of where you cut it back to Kublakan...... I think all the rain contributed to the crabs that I now have digging under one of my roses. I am so afraid that it is going to get air pockets around the roots.... if it isn't bugs, mites its other critters. Ugh. Good luck on stopping the canker.

I'll take some pics tomorrow morning. I've been taking an hour to work in the yard early in the mornings since the afternoon rains make work impossible.

I have never seen crabs in my area (western Miramar). Are you coastal or in the Keys. I've seen crabs wreak havoc in the Keys. Perhaps you can post some pictures.

I live on the Intracostal in Plam Beach County. The crabs are normally next to the water, but with all the rain I guess they had too much and moved closer to the house. I lost a rose several years ago to one's digging. I have only had this rose in the ground maybe a month or so, I am afraid the air will get into the roots. Last evening there was a 3inch wide hole at least 8 or more inches deep angling right under the plant. I tried to fill it with dirt but kind of hard to do. So I put dirt on top and put more water on t.... just what the poor rose needs with all the rain we have been having. Then I tamped around it hoping I got all the air pockets out. Then this morning there was another hole on the other side of the plant. I repeated water and dirt like last evening then went and found a glue trap and stuck it under the rose..... Hopefully I will have caught a crab by the time I get home.

Out of curiosity, was the rose on Fortuniana and what variety was it?

The website says to try to catch the little devil with a net at night. A glue trap sounds interesting, although it might catch more than just the crab, lol.

You could also lure the crab to another spot in the yard by leaving some dead fish lying around somewhere else.

I completely empathize with you. My parents had one kill a coconut palm tree once when a colony made their home in the parent's back yard (Key Largo).

You could always adopt a cat, lol.

Well I got home from work and I see all caught was his dirt on the glue trap.

Yes the rose is on Fortuniana.... I am actually contemplating digging it up and putting it in a pot temporaily.... and while digging try and catch/kill the the thing..... my husband likes to fish.... I could give it to him for bait. As for dead fish, I think I would be luring the raccoons. I have a cat.... he is an inside cat but maybe I could tie him to the bush lolThough my husband just told me we could throw him outdoors anytime.... (He isn't really a cat person-can you tell)

We had looked at a house in Manalapan, Florida before we purchased here. The backyard had a sink hole maybe 45 ft by 30 ft. The Real estate person state the crab hole colony caused it... They can be devitating.... I think I (hope) have only one right now .... that is why I want to get rid of it.

holy cow, I never knew crabs could be so destructive. As if we didn't have enough critters here to wreak havoc on our roses, now we have to worry about crabs too? #onlyinflorida

I think my crab is gone. I went to Home Depot and the garden person told me to put snail bait in his hole. I had been tromping his hole shut with dirt and it came back everyday until after the snail bait. The Home Depot person said the snail bait was not strong enough to kill it, but strong enough to make him move on. Just thought I would share for others who have this problem.