Peter- Do you have a handle on number that would be considered problematic? Maybe a number that even if row crops were planted in with cover crop following that wouldn't be able to take back down to borderline high/excessive? What you say is encouraging, but I'd really like to know some sort of ranges before I make my decision. Note that too much K will doubtful become a problem around here. The challenge ( I believe) is always going to be P because of the ratio in my manure and it's inclination to stay put. Thanks! Kimmsr- To a degree, I understand how excess P affects the availability of other nutrients.... although only a superficial understanding. So yes, I agree that too much P is not a good thing. That being said, I do not have a handle on the numbers that are considered excessive and where in the excessive range things start to get out of whack. Also, don't know if the P range from Low to Excessive is a linear range or Logarithmic (?) (meaning that for all practical purposes just the excessive range could be between 120 (which it is in this case & 5000 (which I highly doubt), but the fact that excessive is at the end of the range complicates things because it's unlimited. Just want to know how much my addition of 130lbs moves the bar into the excessive range. Note that my water is on a well, so yes the excess P levels concern me. That being said, if my well water is going to get contaminated it's probably from all the farm land around me rather than my relatively insignificant tract. All that aside, I still want to do "the right thing", just want to be smart about it. Note that the only way that the P levels could have gotten this high in the first place (assuming they are this high) is because of the synthetic fertilizers I added last year. Anyway, I'm trying to come up with a system now that is sustainable from my point of view and I'm attempting to start now rather than later. Thus trying to avoid adding more synthetics when possible. Meaning, they got me into this mess in the first place. I have a composting experiment going right now with the chicken manure just not sure how it's going to work. Chicken manure and pinestraw..... yeah, I know not ideal but it's what I use for bedding because I live on pinelands and it's readily available and free. Just not sure how it's going to compost. If it works, I'll be more inclined to compost. If not, less inclined to do so. That being said, I have 3 or so acres planted in oat/clover cover crops right now that I could use to make compost later- a possibility. But, that "requires" more implements/labor etc than rotating out cover crops with cash crops. Bottom line is it's more efficient for me to come up with a method that I don't HAVE to compost, especially since I have my poultry manure available. To answer your question about humus level, right now it's pretty limited and it's sand loam (mostly sand), so yes leaching is a problem. I'm steadily building the soil with cover crops and mulch but still have work to do. Thanks!

Thanks for the feedback. My general knowledge of chemistry is weak. I know that most of the materials I use in glazes are used because they are not easily soluble in water (which would create long term storage issues), and that sulfates and nitrates are generally avoided in glazes because the are so soluble. I picked up some epsom salts the other day and it got me thinking about what else in my glaze material cupboards might work in the garden. Thanks AL - I do have potassium carbonate and I know that I read that TUMS is an excellent source of soluble calcium. which makes sense. Valerie - I couldn't find a "chemical forum" Dan - from my observations it seems that you and Al often disagree - I enjoy reading the banter. Thanks again for the feedback

Soaps and detergents differ some in their chemical makeup, and also in their effectiveness as a pest control Both can be acceptable as an organic control; it depends on the particular makeup of the product in question. A soap is a metal salt of a fatty acid. The metal is usually from one of two columns of the periodic table: alkali metals (Na or K are the ones most common), or sometimes an alkali earth (like Ca). The fatty acid is often animal or plant in origin, but may also be sourced from fossil sources. There is a carboxylic acid group at the end of the soap structure. All this chemistry points to a critical factor regarding use of soap as a pesticide: it can become insoluble in hard or heavily mineralized water. If you look at containers of soaps sold as pest controls you will often see a note that they should be mixed with soft, or non-mineralized water to be effective. If you've ever seen a film on top of the mixed soap and water, you are seeing some of the problem. An insoluble soap then is not effective at removing the protective coating on the insect which is how the insect is attacked. A detergent is very similar to a soap, but may have a more ionic group instead of the carboxylic group. You might, instead, see a sulfate or sulfonate group. Look at a typical shampoo content list to see some of these materials. Again, the detergent may be made with plant, animal or fossil materials. In many cases detergents are not made with a plant or animal-sourced fatty acid. There are two advantages of detergents: they may not become insoluble in hard or mineralized water, and they may contain additional surfactants which markedly improve their activity. The different chemistry of a soap vs. detergent may mean that the detergent is a better pest control agent if only one material is to be used. Often, adding a little detergent to a soap mix can markedly improve the effectiveness of the product. The improved solubility, increased action associated with the surfactant and sometimes the added coverage due to a foaming agent are very helpful. There is fact behind the often -seen suggestion in organic gardening circles that a bit of Dawn dish soap helps a lot in control. Some detergents are organically certified, some are not. Unless you are looking for a certification for your entire growing operation, the certification of the detergent may not be important. For casual use, detergents may help to better achieve desired pest control, either alone, or in combination with a soap. If a soap is used with soft or demineralized water, it may be fine on its own. Used properly, both soaps and detergents can be used on plants without untoward damage to the plant. Renais

I found a horticultural abstract entitled, "Applications of Potassium silicate decrease black spot infection in rose Fuschia Meidiland". The conclusion: "The results indicate that using potassium silicate in irrigation water may be a useful component of a disease management system." Potassium silicate is a pH up, it makes the soil alkaline and imparts silicon to the leaves. Potassium silicate is sold as "Rhino Skin" for $7 at Planet-Natural .. I wonder how they extract that from Rhino Skin? http://www.planetnatural.com/product/rhino-skin-potassium-silicate/ I googled "Foods highest in silica" and found this info: "one of the best food sources for silica is oats. A breakfast muesli made with raw soaked oats eaten daily supplies lots of silica. (Guess why horses fed with oats are so strong and have such shiny coats?) Without silica there would be no lustre to our hair; we would have brittle nails, rough and itchy skin and no elasticity in our connective tissues." I got 42 oz, or 2 lb. of oats for $2 at the grocery store. I grounded that up in a coffee grinder, and fertilized Bolero, very pleased with the results ... cheaper than Rhino skin! Here is a link that might be useful: Horticultural abstract on potassium silicate This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Oct 6, 13 at 11:47