11/8/15: phosphorus from manure & phosphorus factory & air pollution
Above are spring pic. of my peony, fertilized with chicken manure NPK 5-3-2, only $7 for 25 lb. bag at Menards. Plenty of phosphorus in manure, no need for bone meal. There's the myth that we need lots of phosphorus for blooming, and a guy from container gardening wrote to the President of a large fertilizer company to ask that question. The president wrote back to say that they put A HIGH % of phosphorus in the fertilizer just to make it look good & to get folks to buy that, but he admitted that we don't need much phosphorus for blooming, and it's way down the list after nitrogen, potassium, and calcium.
Rose tissue analysis by U. of CA at Davis showed that the roses require a bit more nitrogen than potassium, 1/2 calcium, 1/4 magnesium, and 1/10 of phosphorus. People don't realize that animal manure have PLENTY OF PHOSPHORUS. There's a myth that we are short of phosphorus just to UP THE DEMAND for that nasty chemical. There's plenty of phosphorus in decayed organic matter (leaves), or bone meal (can only be utilized if the pH is below 7). Here's an excerpt of how phosphorus-production cause air pollutant and hurt the environment:
http://www.greens.org/s-r/29/29-18.html
" Death in the Air:
Air Pollution from Phosphate Fertilizer Production
by George Glasser
In the early predawn hours when the air is still and moist, phosphate fertilizer factories are often shrouded in an acidic haze .. And finally, the full impact of inhaling the noxious smog causes choking and coughing.
For those employed at the phosphoric acid factories, this is the work world they enter every day. Day in and day out, they eat, breathe, and drink toxic pollution until they become too sick to work, or die.
In the phosphate producing regions, telltale environmental damage is the legacy of the industry. It is not uncommon to see ragged holes filled with low level radioactive water left from strip-mining operations. Reclaimed land emits high levels of radon; people who have built homes on reclaimed land stand a greater chance of developing lung cancer and leukemia. Phosphogypsum stacks are piled up to 200 feet high and leach toxic chemicals into the aquifer and toxic dust into the atmosphere.
Spills from toxic waste-water ponds dump hundreds of millions of gallons of highly acidic water laced with toxic fluorides, radionuclides, heavy metals, sulfites and phosphoric acid into rivers and streams. Massive fish kills are not unusual when these spills occur. There are few regulations governing wastes from phosphoric acid and superphosphate fertilizer production ...
The entire population of Hamilton County, Florida was exposed to toxic emissions from the plant, possibly many times what are considered safe levels.
Expecting a 20% increase in the global demand for superphosphate fertilizer, chemical corporations have dumped over 10 billion dollars into phosphoric acid and phosphate mining in the state of Florida. Today, Florida’s phosphate fertilizer producers supply 30% of the world demand and 75% of the domestic supply, account for some 50,000 jobs nationwide and $800 million in wages. And it also appears the industry is a major contributor of illness and death to people who live and work in the toxic, radioactive fallout.
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Wal-Mart Fertilizer has no phosphorus anymore.
Comments (24)There is a huge 'dead zone' in the Gulf of Mexico. Do you really believe that it is caused by homeowners using too much fertilizer? I don't. The dead zone is blamed on runoff from farmland. If farm runoff is enough to cause that dead zone, how can it not be the cause of Phosphorus in streams and water supplies? When farmers farm, they do a very carefully analysis of how much fertilizer they need to maximize their profits. If they don't, they go out of business. They could care less about runoff if their farm is at stake. I agree with cyrus on this one; it's political. Just as with air pollution and vehicle pollution controls, it is politically expedient to force the ordinary person to bear the brunt of regulation. Businesses get a pass. For years, trucks were exempted from the requirement to use catalytic converters. They were 10% of vehicles on the road but they were creating 50% of the air pollution. Only recently were they required to clean up their exhaust....See MoreGreen Manure For Food !
Comments (2)I'm sorry I forgot to say what's in the mixes. In the first picture for FALL: This mix is comprised of winter rye, field peas, ryegrass, crimson clover and hairy vetch. Vigorous late summer growth provides winter erosion control. The peas, clover and ryegrass will winter kill to provide organic matter and soil cover. The hairy vetch and winter rye will regrow in the spring to provide nutrients for crops to utilize. For the Spring Mix , in the second picture: Use as a green manure to enrich the garden with both nitrogen and organic matter. The mix contains 60% field peas, 25% oats, and 15% hairy vetch. Designed for spring sowing, but it may be sown anytime early spring through late summer. Our backyard is part of the Rocky Mountain , literally! And so to tame patches of it, since it is not level, our son weed-whacked the rag weeds and other unwanted last fall, and since my Fall mix didn't arrive until too late(didn't want it all eaten by the wild pheasants and other wild residents-might have to pellet the seeds with fine clay powder because of that), I will sow the Spring mix very early on patches maybe 10x20's on the South facing incline for additonal gardening places and let the mix do the weeding out and the fertilizing and the softening of the dirt, and the composting, to get them ready for vegetables and flowers for the year after. I am planning to always have a patch of the mixes growing for seeds, and to rotate them from one patch to the other, and intersperse their plantings with my regulars when ever possible. Bon, bref, I've been long winded,as usual. Chris...See MorePotassium excess & poultry manure application
Comments (13)Peter- Do you have a handle on number that would be considered problematic? Maybe a number that even if row crops were planted in with cover crop following that wouldn't be able to take back down to borderline high/excessive? What you say is encouraging, but I'd really like to know some sort of ranges before I make my decision. Note that too much K will doubtful become a problem around here. The challenge ( I believe) is always going to be P because of the ratio in my manure and it's inclination to stay put. Thanks! Kimmsr- To a degree, I understand how excess P affects the availability of other nutrients.... although only a superficial understanding. So yes, I agree that too much P is not a good thing. That being said, I do not have a handle on the numbers that are considered excessive and where in the excessive range things start to get out of whack. Also, don't know if the P range from Low to Excessive is a linear range or Logarithmic (?) (meaning that for all practical purposes just the excessive range could be between 120 (which it is in this case & 5000 (which I highly doubt), but the fact that excessive is at the end of the range complicates things because it's unlimited. Just want to know how much my addition of 130lbs moves the bar into the excessive range. Note that my water is on a well, so yes the excess P levels concern me. That being said, if my well water is going to get contaminated it's probably from all the farm land around me rather than my relatively insignificant tract. All that aside, I still want to do "the right thing", just want to be smart about it. Note that the only way that the P levels could have gotten this high in the first place (assuming they are this high) is because of the synthetic fertilizers I added last year. Anyway, I'm trying to come up with a system now that is sustainable from my point of view and I'm attempting to start now rather than later. Thus trying to avoid adding more synthetics when possible. Meaning, they got me into this mess in the first place. I have a composting experiment going right now with the chicken manure just not sure how it's going to work. Chicken manure and pinestraw..... yeah, I know not ideal but it's what I use for bedding because I live on pinelands and it's readily available and free. Just not sure how it's going to compost. If it works, I'll be more inclined to compost. If not, less inclined to do so. That being said, I have 3 or so acres planted in oat/clover cover crops right now that I could use to make compost later- a possibility. But, that "requires" more implements/labor etc than rotating out cover crops with cash crops. Bottom line is it's more efficient for me to come up with a method that I don't HAVE to compost, especially since I have my poultry manure available. To answer your question about humus level, right now it's pretty limited and it's sand loam (mostly sand), so yes leaching is a problem. I'm steadily building the soil with cover crops and mulch but still have work to do. Thanks!...See MoreWhat are the Benefits of Cover Crops or Green Manures?
Comments (0)Cover crops and green manures are basically the same term. When these plants are alive they are cover crops. When the plants are decaying they are green manures. Green manuring has all the soil benefits of classic composting, plus other benefits: 1. Green manures can fertilize large acres of land cheaper and easier than hauling in tons of finished compost. 2. You can eat the produce of certain cover crops like beans, peas, or radishes. It is harmful to humans to eat compost! 3. The roots of certain legume green manures can supply tons of free atmospheric nitrogen per acre to the topsoil after the cover crop plants are tilled, mowed down, or smothered. Rhizobacteria live inside the legume roots creating a unique relationship that actually converts atmospheric nitrogen into organic nitrogen for the legume to use. This extra nitrogen fixation built up by the rhizobacteria can not be beneficial to other plants near by, or future crops in the soil next season, until that legume is dead and recycled into the soil by the green manuring process. Compost can't fix nitrogen in the soil. 4. All green manures supply extra organic matter to feed and breed beneficial soil organisms for soil fertility and soil health. 5. The roots of certain cover crops can go down several feet below the topsoil and into the subsoil to break up hardpan and pull essential nutrients up to the topsoil level at green manuring time. After 24 months of continuous growth, alfalfa roots can extent over 20 feet down, that can turn it extra OM down into the subsoil! No regular tractor or mechanical tiller can plow that deep! Without tilling it in, compost can't do that. 6. Some cover crops can weed out other plants. Buckwheat, oats, and sunflowers are good types of these allelopathic plants. 7. Some cover crops can attract beneficial insects and repel bad insects like marigolds and crimson clover. Compost can't do that either. 8. Some special cover crops can help control diseases in the soil or on the foliage of nearby plants. Examples are garlic, onions, hot peppers, basil, marigolds, thyme, and other herbs. These plants can protect plants like tomatos from diseases. They can also control bad nematodes or other soil problems. Some of these cover crops can do these functions as living plants or as decaying green manures. 9. Some legume cover crops, like white clover, can be planted next to your crops during the warm season to be used as a living mulch. 10. Green manures work best when mixed with legumes and non-legumes. That way you get the nitrogen fixing benefit from the legumes, but also you maximize the fast growth of the expansive root development and tall foliage height that is characteristic of grasses and grains. 11. Did you know that about 95% of all the bulk and biomass of all non-legume cover crops is a direct production from only water and photosynthesis! The other 5% is straight from the soil. Legume cover crops go farther and pull free nitrogen from the air also. That means that all cover crops will add more humus to the soil than what was there before just from energy from the sun and the atmosphere. Since humus is mostly carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen from the air, that means that cover crops greatly benefit the biosphere and the soil microherd, just from above! Plain compost can't do that! ******************************************************************************** Green Manures have other nicknames also beside Cover Crops. Sometimes they are referred to as Smother Crops, Catch Crops, Nurse Crops, Living Mulches, or Compost Crops. Green manures also help conserve nutrients from the topsoil and even the subsoil, in bad weather, varying temperatures or seasons or climates. Green manures help solve crop rotation issues for small or large garden spaces. Green manures can even help heal soil diseases. Green manures can help buffer soil pH with its organic matter in the soil just like compost for the next planting season. Green manures are also great at controlling erosion and soil water moisture content. A nurse crop is a fast growing cover crop like rye that is grown close to a slower legume cover crop like hairy vetch in order to help support the plant's foliage as it grows. You can grow a cover crop in order to supply green nitrogen rich organic matter for your compost bins. Next to classic composting, green manuring is the greatest single thing you can ever do improve your soil and your gardening environment. ******************************************************************************** Mostly all cover crops can be grown easier by sprinking or lightly covering seeds on top of 1-2" finished compost or rich garden soil. This a partial list of some of our favorite cool season and warm season cover crops and their basic purposes: A. Crimson clover - cool season annual legume. More cold hardy than most other clovers. Grows great on all soil types in 1-2 months. Supplies lots of foliage and roots OM. Crimson clover and winter peas can be found in deer plot mixes. Attracts lots of beneficial insects. Easy to green manure. The favorite legume green manure of the south. B. Hairy vetch - cool season annual legume. It is the most cold hardy of the popular legumes. Can grow in temps below -5 degrees F. Can be found in some deer plot mixes. Great legume weed suppressor. Grows great with a non-legume like rye as a nurse crop. The favorite legume green manure of the north. C. Rye, winter wheat, and oats - cool season fast growing grass/grain non-legumes. Rye is the most cold hardy of all green manures, and it can grow almost anywhere. Rye can grow in temps below -20 degrees F. Rye and oats are a great non-legume weed suppressors. These crops can grow fast in a few weeks. Supplies lots of OM. Rye must be killed at least 4-6 weeks before planting spring crops to not hinder seed germination. You can find these cover crops in deer plot mix or horse or cattle feeds. D. All beans and peas (legumes) - All beans are warm season except fava beans. Most peas are cool season. The most cold hardy peas are winter peas. Most dry beans and peas sold in bags in grocery stores will sprout and grow fine. E. Radishes, mustard greens, rape, kale - Great cheap fast growing cool season annual non-legumes for lots of foliage OM. A thick crop of mustard, rape, or kale is a great non-legume weed suppressor. a thick crop of radishes are great for repelling many bug pests all year round. F. Buckwheat and sunflowers - Great fast growing warm season annual non-legumes that can break up hardpan, kill weeds, and pull up insoluble subsoil phosphorus from minerals up to the topsoil to make available for next crops. Buckwheat can grow fast on any soil type (4-6 weeks to maturity). G. Marigolds and other herbs - warm season annual non-legumes. Marigolds when planted thick, it's great for nematode control and other pest controls. Garlic, onions, and hot peppers control many soil pests. H. All weeds - This unknown class of green manures recycle much needed foliage and root OM and nutrients back to the topsoil. All cover crops should be either tilled in, mowed down almost to the ground, or smothered by organic mulches before they go to seed, to prevent sprouting later in the year and becoming a weed themselves. The no-tilling option is the best way to get optimal soil health, texture, and soil microbial activity. Recent research has proven that excessive tilling, or tilling too deep, can kill off beneficial fungi in the soil and create soil texture problems and some soil fertility issues. If you decide to go with a no-till garden, you can poke holes in the soil around crop roots with your spade fork, to get more oxygen in the soil to further increase organic matter decomposition and increase microbial activity in the soil. Year round green manuring practices can not only improve your soil health and texture, but also decrease extra periodic plant fertilizers and soil amendments. Happy Gardening!...See More
jim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
8 years ago
rosecanadian
8 years agojim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
8 years agostrawchicago z5
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoJim: I hope your blood test goes well.
Jess: I watched your link "The Great Dance". Such beauty in the gazette? running and the eagle? chasing it? Africa is one of the last place where earth remains wholesome as God created it. There's so much pollution in California, where a few of my sisters live. One of my sister has bad asthma from that. I don't take my breadth for granted, if I can breathe & sleep well at night WITHOUT stuffy nose, I'm happy. People here clean their air-ducts before the winter, but I do that myself with my vacuum.
Below is a picture of Japanese Maple tree in front of my house. Picture. taken this past Friday Nov. 6, before 2nd frost hit.
Here's the same Japanese maple tree, seen from the window of my living room:
strawchicago z5
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoHere's a bouquet of purple Old Port rose, and white Bolero, plus snapdragon. Pic. taken yesterday, Nov. 9.
Below is bouquet of Stephen Big Purple, taken past week, notice the color is a bit more red than Old Port rose:
jim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
8 years agostrawchicago z5
8 years agoJim: The grass was white with frost this morning, but my perennial flowers are blooming & looking good: snapdragons, calendula, purple alyssum, and this bright blue-ground-cover. Marigolds got zapped after the 1st frost. Austin roses are blooming: Mary Magdalene, William Shakespeare 2000, Radio Times, but French Romantica Tchaikosky got balled up, can't open. Zone 4 roses like Marie Pavie and Comte de Chambord's blooms are NOT harmed by frost, neither are Austin roses like Evelyn, Sharifa Asma (bunnies ate one bud, since it's a short rose). Below is Bolero, pic. taken Nov. 8 after the 2nd frost.
jim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agojim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoWhat are some types of bushes and perennials that you folks have in your gardens? Thanks!
I tried Big Bang Spirea but was not impressed and took them out. Our cat would lay in the middle of them then the bushes would look bad the rest of the season...lol
Jess, the pic below is the year we got 3 snow storms back to back and had over 2 feet of snow... A lot of snow for us... See how only the tops of roses/bushes are peeping out of the snow...We made a path for our pet dog...
jessjennings0 zone 10b
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agostrawchicago z5 thanked jessjennings0 zone 10bstrawchicago z5
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoJESS: Red Japanese Maple grows VERY SLOW, and very compact, it took 15 years for that tree to achieve that height. I have one more Jap. Maple (the same) in full sun, it's stunt due to lack of water, only 3 feet tall. My 3rd Jap. maple, a bloodgood, is less than 3 feet tall.
White Bolero rose is one the MOST FRAGRANT roses in my garden, it smells like a French perfume. Yes I used to have 2 Butterfly bushes .. lots of butterflies on those. But they are very late in blooming, they like dry & hot weather best. I grow black-eyed Susan, they are very invasive, I spent hours killing them.
I also grow Balloon flowers (blue), they get tall over 2 feet, needs to trimmed down for best repeat. I have 2 Russian Sage bushes, they are Messy, and invasive, spreading suckers all over the lawn.
JIM: The 1st link of coreopsis, that is NOT hardy in my zone 5a winter, and died after 1st winter. Your 2nd link of coreopsis, is hardier. I used to have a large collection of coreopsis, at least 15 plants of different colors, from dark pink (bi-color), light yellow, to dark yellow. Now I only have 3 hardy coreopsis (dark yellow). Coreopsis like it HOT & DRY and prefer alkaline soil. They bloomed like mad when watered with my tap-water near pH 9, but they are stingy when it's rainy & wet. The blooming season of coreopsis is in the middle of summer, you don't get spring and late summer like marigolds. So the blooming period is only 1/4 the span of marigolds. I would choose butterfly bush as Jess suggest, it attract tons of butterflies, and like full-sun, plus drought-tolerant. Butterfly bush blooms very late, so you won't get early summer blooming either. Coreopsis NEEDS excellent drainage, and don't like wet-feet, acidic soil, nor heavy rain.
This is my last post for the year, I'm off for the winter. I need to e-mail my kid daily to help her with her practice writing. Plus I need to e-mail my child & husband & family & friends daily on tips toward healthy living. I might be off all forums indefinitely, since I figure out all there is to keep roses healthy. Some last pictures before I leave this forum, all these are taken today, Nov 11.
First time in 4 years that I achieve perfect health in Marie Pavie after frost:
strawchicago z5
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoTwo roses from pots grew from tiny rootings: Cloude Soupert next to Lemon Balm, pic. taken today Nov. 11. It's pale since I topped with my alkaline clay to see if that would stop bloom from balling, it did:
Below picture of Perle d'Or also taken today, Nov. 11, I put clover in the pot so I don't have to give it nitrogen. I stuck a cutting of Duchess de Rohan in that pot, and it's growing new leaves.
Below: I put Prairie Harvest in the ground in the worst spot possible: steep hill and shady ... neglect that one since I don't like the blooms. It pumps out 2 more buds. Pic taken Nov. 11:
Annuals like purple Alyssum, petunia survive 3 frosts very well, they keep blooming until the ground freezes. Perennial like snapdragons bloom when snow hits:
Below is my favorite yellow perennial, blooms from early summer to after Thanksgiving, amidst the snow. This Calendula attract tons of ladybugs, lacewings, and bees, they self-seed for the past 15 years:
Below petunias and the blue-flower bloom until hard frost hit. Pic. taken Nov 11.
I put alkaline clay soil on top of Mary Magdalene every year. That blooms until Thanksgiving. Red flowers are snapdragons, all pics. are taken today, Nov. 11
This won't be the last bouquet of the year of Evelyn and Bolero floribunda with snapdragons (last twice longer in the vase compare to roses). There are plenty of blooms on W.S. 2000, Mary Magdalene, and Bolero as of today, Nov. 11. My last bouquet is usually during Thanksgiving. Have a nice winter & God bless & and I pray for you all. I'm off this forum now to focus on helping my kid to write better & taking care of my family.
jim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoOk I'll scrap getting Coreopsis plants as they sounded iffy anyways...
Sadly butterfly bushes bloom real late here also because of our cooler weather...
Calendula & Alyssum sounds interesting...
I'll probably have to stay with planting mostly annuals since we like flowers that bloom most of the season. I just find it a pain to start flowers from seed but only because we have no big windows to set a bunch of seedlings into during the cold months...My wife has the only good spot taken...lol
Superb pics Straw and info! Thanks
Thanks for you info Jess!
Excuse the greenroom...lol...My son wanted it painted green when he was young and I just never repainted it....lol
Take care over the winter Straw!
strawchicago z5 thanked jim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6jessjennings0 zone 10b
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agostrawchicago z5 thanked jessjennings0 zone 10brosecanadian
8 years agojim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoI did not get results of my blood test yet Jess...I'll know Nov 17th...
Yes very nice tribute! Great looking rose bush Jess!
I'm going to order some cosmos seeds and Zinnia seeds... (Starting point)
http://parkseed.com/sonata-pink-blush-cosmos-flower-seeds/p/00646-PK-P1/
http://parkseed.com/sonata-white-cosmos-flower-seeds/p/00613-PK-P1/
http://parkseed.com/profusion-double-flowered-zinnia-seed-collection/p/90441/
Gracie got groomed today...
jim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
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8 years agolast modified: 8 years agojim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
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8 years agojim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
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8 years agolast modified: 8 years agojim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
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8 years agolast modified: 8 years agojim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
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