I would say it was "pressed" rather than carved. and the back clearly shows circular saw marks dating it as no earlier than 1830 at the very earliest, most likely many years newer. Probably made of oak.
It is a depiction of "The Last supper" as envisioned by Da Vinci....which is not part of "Stations of the Cross" which depicts events on the day of the crucifixion. The Last Supper, depicting the Seder happened 2 days before.

This is not a "pressed" wood piece for sure. It is carved. The marks of the circular saw are just visible in the middle of the piece in the back. But do not forget that the circular saw appeared in 17th century in Europe and only the sawing machine was patented around the end of the 18th century in Britain and Germany. The round blade or circular saw was used all over Europe including France.

Yes, this is a very interesting point about "The last supper". But this is not the one associated with Da Vinci on this piece. Just to make sure that we understand each other: During the first centuries, "the institution of the Eucharist at the Last Supper is remembered by Roman Catholics as one of the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary, the First Station of the Scriptural Way of the Cross and by most Christians as the "inauguration of the New Covenant", mentioned by the prophet Jeremiah, fulfilled at the last supper when Jesus "took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to them, and said, 'Take; this is my body.' And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it. And he said to them, 'This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.'"[Mk. 14:22-24] [Mt. 26:26-28][Lk. 22:19-20] Other Christian groups consider the Bread and Wine remembrance to be a change to the Passover ceremony, as Jesus Christ has become "our Passover, sacrificed for us",[1 Cor. 5:7] and hold that partaking of the Passover Communion (or fellowship) is now the sign of the New Covenant, when properly understood by the practicing believer."

So, back to "the last supper", the latin script of the piece is very specific and means "I arose and am still with you". Another doctrine that could be significant when this piece was done. Those words with "The last supper" carving are a great interesting piece of history, especially for the collectors.

I did my researches about this piece, and I would like to know if there are others or similar ones. Then, I will be able to compare. Because I am still confused with similar renaissance woodcarving works that I came across with. Thanks for your comment.

By the way, the density of the oak woods are less than this type of wood. The density results are around 60 to 69 pounds per square foot. Satinwood could be the type, as example. And this piece is very dry wood, no doubts about it.

Can you show a picture of the whole piece, and give some idea of the size?

And pictures of the inscriptions you are talking about.

The size of the item is in the first posted description. And this is the entire picture of the piece.

Apparently, this was part of a Stations of the Cross where an old
Catholic Church burned in the New France colony (17th or 18th century) .

What makes you think this? Which church and where?

It looks more to me as a renaissance carving work.

What makes you you think this?

=============

It occurred to me that this is probably one of the "Tour of the Holy Land" souvenirs that were popular on the late Victorian to Edwardian era. Made of olive wood, carved with the last supper scene, proof you were there.

Not high quality. The length of the legs on the two people seated in the middle seems a bit off, as well as the size of their feet. I, also, think of it more as a souvenir.

During the invasion of the British army in New France (1756 - 1760), it was ordered to comply with the churches. Nevertheless, on the Beaupré coast, a church was burned and another occupied. On the island of Orleans, five churches are damaged. Around Québec it is the chaos, and churches are first aimed by the English.

In the months that followed, and when the invasion became inevitable, the Grand Vicar Briand urged the clergy of the Beaupré coast to retreat further into the woods with the parishioners, carrying the effects of churches and all that was possible to save. Here as elsewhere, they hastened to shelter all the church's ornaments. Later, all parishes in New France also comply with the same instructions.

During these years of turmoil, where everything is done to save the church's treasures, a british officer named Knox arrives in Saint-Laurent, June 27, 1759. When he takes a moment to visit the church, he found an entire empty building. All ornaments were transported elsewhere by the parishioners. Everything was hidden in the vaults of the Ursulines, hidden in northen village barns, or buried far in the wood.

There we are today. This is where the expression came from. "You can always find in a barn, some treasures." Simple when you understand the old history of the mankind. Most of the barns were the treasures hiding place before the first safes on the new continent. During the following wars, still the churches in Europe went through similar processes in protecting arts items.

This wood piece come from an old family barn on the South Shore about 50 miles from Quebec city and was kept for centuries. During the old invasion, lot of people died in the war, and some of their memories were also buried. This was not under any archives systems... I guess.

The density of the olive wood would be within the type of this piece except that the colour would be more cream or yellowish brown, with darker brown or black contrasting streaks, and the color tends to deepen with age. Olive wood also figured with curly or wavy grain, burl, or wild grain. Nothing of that description correspond to the wood of this piece.

Yes, it looks like renaissance carving work. Except that the heads and the angle of carving are more specific to another type of influence. And the big question still is, where is that renaissance art work was influence mostly? By the way, this wood is so strong and solid, that is why the carving is not deep in the piece. I don't know what you mean by not high quality, but within the old art domain it is strange to the ear.

No, this is nothing to do with any type of souvenirs, this piece never quit the new continent and stayed in the family. "Proof you were there"...??? At that time, late Victorian, my old grant grant father would be the one to visit the holy land... No, he was in the Klondike at that time, and he did bring back some gold too.

Thanks for the comments... we are getting there...

I would have to actually see the wood to ID it (it might be acacia, another Biblically mentioned wood, which is a very tough wood), but from what I have seen of the piece, and what I know of history it's far more likely that it's a Victorian souvenir of the Holy Land than a piece from the Renaissance.

The "ornaments" that the English were looking for were gold and silver pieces such as communion chalices and candlesticks. Not wooden carvings.

Here is what Knox's journal says about the church he entered on the 29th of June, 1759. The gold and silver were gone, some paintings remained, along with a note from the priest asking the British to protect the church and it's "sacred furniture" (perhaps the pews? the lectern?) and the priest's house.

The church silver from the French colonial era is awesome stuff.

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/church-silver/

It appears different from any Renaissance wood carvings I have seen. Shallow carving and unsophisticated, primitive depictions....not to say that there weren't Renaissance bas reliefs that were crudely done, but....
You seem to be sure that it was part of the stations of the cross carved in the17th century and taken from a church in Quebec and hidden in a barn.
In spite of the fact that it doesn't appear like other carvings of the period. In spite of the fact that at the time it would not be considered "church treasure" but merely part of the building. In spite of the fact that it looks nothing like Renaissance depictions of the last Supper because Christ has a chalice and a piece of bread only and there is no meal for the others who were said to be celebrating Passover.
You seem convinced that is what you have.
Oh yes and the screws....they might give you some idea about the age, if you really want to know. Remove them and see if they are hand done and do some research about the type of threads that would be found during the era you suspect that is from.

I am convinced because in the old Quebec churches (before mid 18th century), the First Stations of the Scriptural Way of the Cross were made of carving woods from Europe (France - Germany - Italy), bring by the religious congregations. It was a kind of fashion thing. The ornamented ones came in the churches, around late 19th century, bronze, silver and some gold plated as some orthodox icons. I remember the ones that were in the oldest church in the old Quebec when I was a child(60's); small dark square wood carving stations (12" x 12"). Later, for security and wood conservation reasons, there were removed from the church.

During my studies, I was told that the oldest ones were made of wood and still the Ursulines museum have had some great example (the ones that didn't burned, rotten, or have been eaten by worms). With the time they were replacing the wood by more ornamented ones. Same in France, the wood was used to represent the First Stations of the Scriptural Way of the Cross since the first centuries.

Also, the type of wood that this one is made, was purposely made to resist longer in case of fire, against water or humidity and worms. But I cannot put my finger exactly on that type of wood. The density is so high (over 65 pounds per cubic foot) and especially so dry that people are completely amazed.

The ones from the Holy Land, I know, I've seen a lot. But have you seen real old ones with carved scriptures? The old ones in Quebec were all with carved scriptures at the base, without any frames, like this one.

The bronze bracket could be a later device. The old ones were just angle sitting on a type of wood tablet or on the window tablet in the churches.

Thanks again for your good comments.

Probably carved in Montreal around 1900. Good old Canadian birch.

Casey

So you think it's European in origin?...Carved about 1400 of some unknown wood and brought to Quebec by early Christians to use in their church, then removed from that church and hidden in a barn before being found and brought into a house. And you think that this was one of several carvings like this. So, the only thing you wonder is what kind of wood it could be.
If you believe it was carved before 1500, most likely the wood had to be European and any research tells me that Yew is the most likely wood.
If all that you postulate is true, that can be the only possibility, unless it was made later and the wood came from Africa or an other continent.

Circular saw marks on the back are probative to a post-1850 date. That kind of physical evidence trumps any stylistic evidence. And, no, the saw marks were not added later.

To make matters worse, the other marks on the reverse, the parallel ones, appear to be chatter marks from a badly-adjusted planer. (or the wood being fed through the tool at a rapid clip) So it is fully established within the machine age.

Casey

Linda, you are right about the yew wood, I guess. I will go back to my density calculation... just in case. But yeah, all the yew wood characteristics are visible and apply to it. Never heard about this type of wood, in old carving... just acacia and satinwood types, and later a bit of French and English oak. Linda you are a genius one... Great work!!!

My only big concern is if somebody saw a similar piece somewhere, somehow. I mean, an exactly similar piece (type of wood - latin writings - style of carving). So that I can be able to compare with something else.

And no, it can't be birch, especially canadian birch. This wood can fly compare to the item that we are talking about. And about the saw mark, it is more than probable that somebody saw, later, the middle part of the back piece to make it more even to fit better on a wall. Yes, old carpenter always made several modifications or corrections on existing old works, especially in churches. Maintenance work didn't mean at that time, historical repair work.

Thanks for the comments...

Leonce ... "And about the saw mark, it is more than probable that somebody saw,
later, the middle part of the back piece to make it more even to fit
better on a wall."

No, a carpenter would not have tried to trim the back of a piece with a powered circular saw because it's too dangerous. They would have used a hand plane or powered planer to reduce the thickness or correct any warping. A hand plane leaves very distinct marks, as does a power planer. That saw mark was left when the original board was cut for carving, which puts the date as post 1850.

I know you want very very much to have this thing be a part of Quebec history dating back to the French colony, but you have nothing but an oral family tradition for it. The carving style, the saw marks, the old journal's text ... all are information against it being of that era.

The composition - just the chalice and wafer - is not the classical "Last Supper" image. They almost always show the more dramatic "One of you will betray me" moment like daVinci's famous work.

Also, the Last Supper was never one of the Stations of the Cross.

1. Jesus is condemned to death
2. Jesus carries his cross
3. Jesus falls the first time
4. Jesus meets his mother
5. Simon of Cyrene helps Jesus carry the cross
6. Veronica wipes the face of Jesus
7. Jesus falls the second time
8. Jesus meets the women of Jerusalem
9. Jesus falls the third time
10. Jesus is stripped of his garments
11. Crucifixion: Jesus is nailed to the cross
12. Jesus dies on the cross
13. Jesus is taken down from the cross (Deposition or Lamentation)
14. Jesus is laid in the tomb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stations_of_the_Cross

Do not take me wrong, but I will keep the American history (which is later than the Canadian history) to make sure that we understand each other. By the way, one of my backgrounds is the restoration of old buildings (construction engineer), specialized in wood and masonry structures. I have studied roman masonry and I went all around Europe. Same for wood structures. Of course, Europe was specific to study very old wood structures that were not destroyed during the two last world wars. As example, a church that was completely transformed (four times) and dated of 700 AD. And yes, I did restoration works on several old churches here in North America. And, also today I am still learning about wood type. Ask Linda…

Personally I think it is pretentious to refuse to learn, especially from people that really have a kind of love for what they are doing or saying. My objectivity about antique research and knowledge is a lot more than myself. And no, I do not want anything else than the truth about history. Also, I have more than an oral family tradition behind me.

So let's go back in America. In 1677, Captain John Whipple, a stalwart citizen of Ipswich, Massachusetts, built himself a two-storey house that he had completed by 1683. This was the 17th century… and please, look at the ceiling joist from the house. Yes, the joist has big vertical saw marks on its sides. In my previous comments you can read that sawmills were all over Europe before the 17th century. And at that time, smoothing tool marks out of wood was an expensive process, involving planing with stones or bricks, and then rubbing with an abrasive material made of sand particles, and/or bricks particles. No money was spent for nothing and for something that you cannot see, especially… Those saw marks have proved that Ipswich, Massachusetts, USA had a sawmill at that time, which is around 170 years earlier than 1850, and we are in America. The old Europe had before that time, different technologies in building processes, including sawmills.

Ceiling Joist from Captain John Whipple - Marks are more rough than the back of the wood carving piece.

But I still see saw marks of the piece made by old handsaw like those, not a circular saw:

Look at the marks and distance between them:

And finally:

The Last Supper was the First Station of the Scriptural Way of the Cross, long time before Pope John Paul II has made a modern version in 1991. The Scriptural Way of the Cross appeared around the 13th century with the Rosary and the New Covenant.

"The institution of the Eucharist at the Last Supper is remembered by Roman Catholics as one of the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary, the First Station of the Scriptural Way of the Cross, and by most Christians as the "inauguration of the New Covenant", mentioned by the prophet Jeremiah,”…

Yes, The Last Supper was not part of the modern Stations of the Cross. But I am talking about The First Station of the Scriptural Way of the Cross.

No surprised here that "The Last Supper" as a religious dimension is such an open knowledge that made a huge imprint on the history for centuries and still today.

Thanks for the comments...

I have intimate experience with all machine and hand-tool marks as a historic preservationist with 35 years experience. A curved two-man saw makes straight saw marks, not curved. And there is _always_ a second set of different, fainter saw marks left by the upstroke of the saw.

There were reciprocating (up/down) machine saws, but they leave parallel marks, like the band resaw, but coarser.

The only saw that can leave curved marks is the circular saw. There was a rotary planing machine that was invented even later that also leaves curved traces, often seen on the bottoms of late 19th c. drawers.

What do you take me for, an imbecile?

Casey

Leonce, are you Philippino? because as far as I can find, only Philippine Catholics include The Last supper as one of the Scriptural stations of the cross. It's called the New Way of the Cross. The Scriptural Way begins in Gethsemane.

Casey, this is not a question of who is an imbecile... I am trying to analyse facts with the comments. On the ceiling joist, there is no circular marks, and its still from a sawmill in the late 1600. Maybe an old reciprocating saw type system, like in Europe. My point was that sawmills were long time before later 1850.

By the way, I took the measurement of the saw marks on the back piece. According to the comments that this is a circular saw, the diameter of the marks would show a saw of over 4 or 5 feet diameter. And only the back centre piece has the marks.

As I said before, and especially in churches, a lot of maintenance was done. The priest was the work master of renovation and maintenance. Some old paintings were retouched during the last centuries, ornaments were redone or simply replaced, statues were significantly retouched and repaint, and the list is going on. All those factors are crucial ones when it comes the time to evaluate old art materials. Fortunately, today, arts are protected.

For those who are familiar with the Vatican Museum, it houses miles and miles of arts, also arranged in a confusing collection pattern. Anyway, there is a long hall of Greek and Roman Statues, from around 500 BC to 200 AD. All of the statues of males has been damaged, either by having cut off their penises or covered with leaves attached by masonry grout.

This was the work of 500 years of middle-age repression (only the “damned” were naked). It began with Pope Paul IV (1555-1559). Pope Innocent X (1644-1655) changed metal fig leaves to plaster ones. Pope Clement XIII (1758-1769) had covered with fig leaves all the other remaining statues. Pope Pius IX (1857) did the most damage, ordering any statues that still contained uncovered penises to be destroyed.

The man, whatsoever is position or is power, always took actions to satisfy his own moments. It is very foolish to believe that during centuries everything was kept as it was, including arts. Some were not affected too much but some others were.

In scrutinizing all the facts of art evaluation, the probability factor is another one that make difference sometimes. Especially with an open mind and with all existing technology and new knowledge; all those facts together can certainly help to understand why so many arts are what they are.

No, I am not Filipino. You have to go deeper in the time, between the 11th to 14th century to find The First Station of the Scriptural Way of the Cross remembrances. You could start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Supper

Thanks for the comments...

Historica Canada: http://www.encyclopediecanadienne.ca/fr/article/sculpture/

Translation:

"The first sculpture in NEW FRANCE, a wood sculpture is the work of craftsmen from France. In 1671 Intendant Jean TALON asked the French government to send him sculptors, so they can execute the decorative work of the merchant navy ship that he commanded; The Canadian. Religious communities and local citizens have imported sculptures from Europe, and a tabernacle ordered for the Hôtel-Dieu de Québec in 1704 took 12 years to reach the country. In 1675, authorities of the QUEBEC SEMINAR brought back from France two sculptors; Samuel Genner and Michel Fauchois, who have worked on the decoration of various chapels of the seminar during their stay in the country, which lasted three or four years. Then, a steady stream of sculptors have arrived in New France. The best known of them are Denis Mallet from Alençon, Charles Chabouli Saint-Rémi de Troyes and Jean Jacques Bloem (better known under the name of Jean Leblond said Jacquies) of Brussels. These early carvers met the needs of the colony, and established a learning centre that allows them to form the first local sculptors."

I am originally from Montreal Quebec and can tell you that what was mostly imported by the Roman Catholics from France were works of silver (which were almost always upgraded to gold as and when funds were available). I have seen religious wood carvings but these were, for the most part, done here in Canada, not brought over from France.

At any rate, this carving in particular is certainly not the work of a professional....more of a fast, crank-em-out, get them on the market religious souvenir or could even be the work of an inexperienced carver, but definitely not something like I've ever seen in churches in Quebec. Sorry but that is MHO.

Leonce I believe the above points made by posters are all falling on deaf ears as you definitely want to make a silk purse from a sow's ear!

Like others have said, it is clear that you are mainly talking to yourself. As others have repeatedly stated, there is no "Last Supper" that is a part of the Stations of the Cross. I'd like to see you back up your claim that the Last Supper is the "First Station of the Scriptural Way of the Cross." The wikipedia site that you site above says nothing about it. I'd truly be interested in learning something about Catholicism I don't know--so please back up your claim with some evidence. So far you've not provided it. Also, please name a Catholic Church from the period you are speaking about that has the so-called Scriptural Way of the Cross with Station 1 being the Last Supper. I lived in Rome for years and am very familiar with churches of all ages, from the earliest house churches through the medieval period through the modern. And yet I have never seen what you insist exists. Again, please show some evidence.

Well, it seems that this site is limited in term of understanding, especially when it is question of history of the religions. As many people, the ones that they think there is only one way, the human dimension is fortunately more than one way.

For centuries, man evolved, and all around him, religions dimension included. The eucharistic language speaking during masses is not latin anymore, and this, only since 50's and 60's.

The popes, before you could think otherwise, were powerful enough to mistakenly kill over a million of women and child. This power is now under other hands, but unfortunately still human hands. Before them it was the cave man... and today, we can tell, this animal never disappeared.

You can say that I am only talking to myself... you can also make other non constructive comments... sorry if I invaded a sacred site.

"As others have repeatedly stated, there is no "Last Supper" that is a part of the Stations of the Cross."

Just a few sites, on line, because I suspect that you do not have the right books. And no... there was and there is not only one type of "Stations of the Cross".

http://www.stmparish.com/18.%20L5%20-%20Way%20of%20the%20Cross%20handout%2021%20Feb%202013.pdf

http://www.stagnescathedral.org/Prayers/Stations%20of%20the%20Cross/Scriptual/Station%201.html

http://stmaryswanganui.org.nz/stations-of-the-cross

http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/documents/ns_lit_doc_via-crucis_en.html

http://cectx.org/stations-of-the-cross/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/history/passionofchrist_1.shtml

http://www.ourcatholicfaith.org/stations/history.html

And I can go on and on... because "The Last Supper" was part of it a long time ago, and it becomes again part of it. I hope that reading is not a issue.

Thanks for the comments... I guess.

And... please read all my comments, maybe somebody will understand...

Leonce ... We understand that you fervently want this to be a piece from an important time in Quebec history.

You don't understand that we would be DELIGHTED for it to be true, but nothing in Church history, North American history, Holy Land history, technological history or art history backs up your tale of the artefact’s history.

The clues from the artefact all point to a quickly made post-Industrial Revolution panel, carved by a mediocre artisan from a machine-sawn piece of wood.

============================

I gave you the OLD version of the Stations of the Cross, the one that goes back to St, Francis of Assissi, and the Last Supper is not on the list. (maybe because there was no cross involved?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stations_of_the_Cross#Traditional_form

"The Passion of the Christ" is not the same as the stations of the cross, so your links are not very useful.

A church in New Zealand, with modern Maori style carvings is NOT the same thing as a church with in situ carvings from the 1600s that you think your panel came from, showing that the Last Supper was traditionally on the list.

======================

Yes, there were sawmills dating back to Roman times, but they used water power to drive a whipsaw (straight bladed saw), not a rotating blade. They leave straight marks like on that beam in Massachusetts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_saw#Sawmill_blades

"After 1813 or 1822 saw mills use large circular saws, up to 3 meters (9
ft) in diameter. Large saws demand more power than up-and-down saws and
did not become practical for sawing timbers until they were powered by
steam engines." It's unremarkable that a blade would be a couple of feet across.

As for why the marks are only in the middle, panels are often thinned around the edges to make them fit in a frame. I'd have to do a hands-on examination of the piece to see if there are traces of planing or sanding.

==============

And if you really want to settle the issue, send it out for radiocarbon dating.