From what you wrote, I assume, it would do well in my area, too. Would you second that? *** Well, it is excellent in the San Fernando Valley, and excellent in Camarillo (Coastal Ventura County). So yes, I suspect that it would. Can you describe the fragrance a little bit more? How strong is it? What kind of fragrance is it for example citrus etc.? **** I'm not good at that. There is an edge of citrus, but something spicier, too. And last but probably most important: How can I obtain this plant, if it is not in commerce and I can't go to the Sacramento Cemetery rose sale? *** We are only now beginning to get a few plants large enough for propagation. You know, it takes ten years, more or less, from breeding f a new rose to introduction. With a new-ish Foundling, it still takes time before we can make little plants and cuttings available to sales and charity auctions. Jeri

This has been a really iteresting discussion, and yes dchall, I can usually rescue a plant in any kind of shape too. Don't you think that healthy ones should be on the sales floor? I bought the rescues in November. I was extremely lucky to find them at a WM near the warm gulf coast. The really healthy ones were probably picked over by June and the rest were probably gone by September. These were really the dregs. Bless you for rescueing all of those Walmart half dead NOID's, but ...BIG but, I bet even the walmart staff thought you were nut's buying them. Umm, yes they did. Are you trying to prove that the plants are durable, or your growing skills are so honed that you can save anything and keep them alive? Plants in the condition I got them in are not at all durable. It was my superior knowledge of soil science that performed the successful rescue of 12 of them. (My knowledge is superior to the soil's knowledge) Actually like I said this is an experiment. I expect to learn something. I purchased two healthier plants at WM last May and June. I killed the June one in standing water. Oops! But the other one was standing in water, too, and I caught it before it rotted. It is alive and blooming today in the original soil. Actually it stopped blooming two weeks ago when what appears to be a seed pod formed on a flower, but I digress. The success I had with that one plant after 6 months prompted me to try the rescue project. I figure keeping one plant alive could be a fluke, but keeping 15 sick plants alive would not be. The point of the experiment is to take these sickies and see if I can recover them, nurse them back to a blooming condition, and sustain them in a blooming condition indefinitely in the original WM pot and soil. I don't want any stem rot or leaf spots to form, but I am not taking any of the care y'all do in keeping water off the leaves. They get fertilizer water splashed on them at every watering. In fact I think many of you would be absolutely grossed out to know how I care for them, so I am resisting the temptation to explain it. But they are doing well to survive this long. If the experiment bombs, I'll explain it and let y'all know what not to do. So far my regimen is working inasmuch as I have not lost more than 3 plants in 8 weeks. If the experiments works, that means I get flowers from them all while remaining in the same soil, I will also explain that, but I would prefer to explain it from a position of some credibility rather than as a newby crackpot (which many folks already think I am). Do you think the average walmart shopper has your unique know how? Not hardly. I am an organic grower and not even all organic growers have my unique knowledge. Even after I explain what I do, half the organic growers don't believe it. YOU USE WHAT TO FERTILIZE? Once I'm getting flowers I will explain the concept and the science behind it. There is nothing really mysterious but if your background is in chemistry, it will be mysterious. You will need to forget some chemistry and learn some microbiology. The average WM shopper is the average person. That person may be an expert in some things but the things they are expert in, they probably do not shop at WM to buy (did that make sense?). I have a mentor who is trying an experiment with WM potting mix. He is in the soil amendment business and has been for 35 years. He used to try to compete with WM potting mixes but has since decided to test their mixes. He grows some plants in standard WM potting soil, identical plants in WM soil with his amendments, and identical plants in WM soil + his amendments + other amendments he is experimenting with. This concept goes along the lines of, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em." Now he's promoting the use of WM potting soil, BUT now he has a small amendment package to make the WM soils act like his more expensive soils. This concept is the Genesis of my project. Do you think the average walmart shopper has the AV experience to know that those $25 everfloris violets are less than special, that they're inferior to most AV hybrids? This is probably much more to the point of this thread than anything I've already said. What makes one plant superior to another? In animals it is called 'conformation.' I know some plants are not considered 'conforming' if they have the wrong natural shape. What makes one African violet better than another?

UPDATE! All's well with the patient. It was throwing out some nice leaves very slowly and was still loose in it's pot (after all it only had a tiny button under the crown). I migrated it out of the plastic dome and then after a week or two put it on a self watering matte with fertilizer (Optimara). It has been growing like crazy ever since! SO - now I know i should probably clean up some of the early deformed leaves, but i'm not quite clear on which of these guys need to go - should i just try to figure out the symmetry from the center? I'm so nervous i tend to want to leave it be and let it rest for a bit - would that be best? Thanks again! N

Thanks for the excellent advice everyone. I had read somewhere about the seed mother being the the most likely parent to pass on the variegation, and was hoping to have the newer variegated plant be the "mother". But you mention the time it takes for seed to ripen and I realize that means a few things. It will likely be late winter or early spring before i have seed, if it is viable. And thats only if I disbud, and then only if both plants will flower at the same time, and thats if I like the flower type of my first plant. And of course the cross has to take and survive until maturity. And so on. So I think I have decided to make myself a drink (thankfully not on call tonight), maybe play some Marvin Gaye, and attempt to facilitate a little self-pollination in my newer plant. Just kidding. I suppose, given the timescales involved, if I am successful by this time next year I may be waiting on seeds from offspring crosses from that plant. Perhaps. I'm far too new to this to begin trying to create a certain type of plant in my opinion. That might lead to frustration. Instead I'd rather make a cross and see what interesting things pop up and then meddle with genetics from there. That being said, maybe it is better to purchase some seeds and do some learning on seeds and seedlings that i have not invested what will amount to a great deal of time and possibly emotion. I have really only seen plants for sale and only a few mentions of seeds for sale. Can anyone recommend a reputable place or internet site to buy some seeds? Thanks, I know this is now far off topic from the first post and I appreciate the time you have all taken to help me. Kerry