How wide is your aisle between your cooktop and your sink? You do realize with them being back to back, if someone is cooking no one can be at the sink helping. I wonder why with such a big kitchen you didn't utilize the left hand side for more than being decorative?

And that is a humongous island. Are you planning on using it for serving and that's why you want it so large?

re frig landing -- Ours will be similar. 3 steps instead of 2 to the island for landing. We decided the extra step was worth the trade offs. We have always had a frig opposite an island for landing and never used the counter space next to the frig for a landing.

If I recall correctly it's 40" (maybe 42") between counters and island.

We kept the left side more decorative to create the passthrough to the dining room. We want to actually use our dining room table to eat now and not just be a space filler in the room! Plus now when you walk into our house, you will be able to see through the dining room to the kitchen.

I do like your idea of more drawers next to fridge... will it look odd with no door cabinets on that back wall?

Landing area from fridge - I guess it will be on the counter to the left of the fridge... or the island.

Large island - this is where we will eat informal meals (mainly when we aren't all together), kids can do crafts or homework, etc. And with the odd window in by the fridge we needed to fill the space and not have that area be so void looking without a table.

Well first off congrats on the upcoming remodel. The double sided glass over the pass through, I'm imagining will look stunning!

Couple thoughts...

Have you confirmed that you can get your countertop material the size of the island without having to do a seam? I would not want a seam.

My other thought was that the upper stacked cabinets are looking a little too small in proportion to the cabinets underneath on that main wall. I think 2/3 to 1/3 is a good ratio.

I have bad eyes but it looks like you have a 15" over 42" with a 7" crown. I think a little larger on the stacked cab might be better ratio visually. Maybe 18" over 39"?

Here's a thread that asked about 10' ceilings with stacked cabs. Greendesigns is an expert and explains it well.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2693943/how-to-divide-up-cabinet-heights-in-10-ceiling-kitchen?n=4

I thought Conestoga was fully custom down to the nat's eyelash. No?

I remember this kitchen from the last time you posted. I thought the existing kitchen had quite a lot of cabinets, and now there are even more cabinets in the new plan. It's somewhat overwhelming. They are going to cost a fortune too (seriously, how much is the cabinet quote coming to?), and surely you can't need that much storage? All my stuff would fit in a fifth of that.

I hate giving bad feedback when people have gone through a whole lot of planning and want to be done and just want to hear a "Perfect! Looks beautiful and couldn't be better!" from us. But I really don't think so many cabinets are serving you visually, functionally, or financially.

Additionally, I agree with cpartist that back-to-back sink and range makes it hard for more than one person to be working at once. A centered sink also means a minimum of counter on each side, whereas off-setting the sink would get you a nice long stretch of counter on one side. If someone told me I was getting an 11-foot island, I'd be so excited and then immediately disappointed to see I had no more than 4 continuous feet of counter on it.

Did you ever consider a second sink? A kitchen of this size could totally support one, and it'd be great for keeping people out of the primary cook's hair.

With just one sink and having it opposite the range, you have essentially made this a one-person-only kitchen. People can sit and watch you cook or watch you clean, but they can't help you much without getting in the way.

For a big family house and for family with several children, I'd want a kitchen that could support several workers. It's just friendly and social to cook with family, and also that's how kids learn to cook.

Remind me again of what your goals/priorities were for this kitchen?

I agree that the cabinets lines are a bit overwhelming to me, so lining the cabinets up where they begin and end horizontally as much possible helps. Here's a quick example where you could line up better. And maybe only do two door/panels insread of three on the pantry cab.

Agree with rebunky about the cabinet heights. I'm doing a 10' ceiling and I believe mine are going to be 39 or 40" + 18" above those. Can't remember exactly.

Also agree with Jillius about considering a prep sink.

I do like the idea of the pass through to the dining room. Am I understanding that your dining room will be your main eating area and the kitchen is just eating at the island with no table in it?

I truly appreciate all of your feedback! Yes, I posted this before and wasn't happy with our cabinet guys plan so I hired a KD to help me. She had the idea of doing the passthrough to the living room to break things up. I guess I just don't really see any other way to make this work in order for things to be symmetric.

Where would another sink go? How could I have done this so that the island and sink aren't back to back? And wouldn't it look funny with the sink off center?

Uppers are 15" and I could change them to 18"... that's a pretty easy change that I wouldn't need the KD to do in her design - cabinet guys could handle that. Note that 6 of the upper cabinets are glass (2 on each side of hood and 2 on passthrough side).

Cambria oversize is 133X65 so that's the size we did the island in.

Cabinets are pricey ($48K for all kitchen plus wine bar)... yes... but I have a big kitchen and don't see how I could do less cabinets?

Goals/priorities - honestly just to have a nicer kitchen with more functionality than we have now! I wish I could say I want specific X, Y and Z but I really don't,

Conestoga - may be fully customizable but the kitchen company I hired builds the boxes.

cpartist - yes, dining room will now be main eating area (planning on new 60" round table). Also island will be able to seat 6 so we can all eat there as well.

might be too late, but did you consider windows to the right and left of the range? I can't imagine getting rid of the one window. It looks like you have lots of cabinet storage. That, or put transoms up high if the view isn't nice. I would kill for a kitchen wall with windows.

I also agree with rebunky about all the different cabinet heights as stated above, so I drew it with the changes suggested by rebunky to show you how when made more uniform, it's not as jarring to the eye with all the different heights, etc

I made the upper cabinets about 18" give or take.

The cabinets on either side of the fridge now are cut at the same level where the upper cabinets end.

I put drawers in the cabinets on either side of the cooktop.

small changes but they create a more cohesive look.

How wide is the aisle between cooktop and sink again?

I believe 40" or 42".

Thank you for mocking that up cp! That is exactly what I was trying to describe. Here they are side by side. Subtle change yet huge difference to my eye. So much cleaner and more balanced.

I believe 40" or 42".

Erica, can you pull the island out more so you have at least a 48" workspace between cooktop and sink? Then I think you'd be ok. Not ideal but it would work.

Oh one other thought. Which side do you have the DW on when standing at the sink? I'm hoping it's on your right so it's not in the direct path of your workspace from fridge to sink.

I definitely have room to pull the island back towards our family room. It's probably 12" in further than we have now.

Dishwasher is to the right of the sink. Garbage and 12" pullout to the left.

Getting rid of windows makes me so sad! I have to agree with nightowl and all that is said above - I definitely would have kept the window, skipped the uppers next to the cooktop, and put in a second window with the savings. Or just leave the one window. I would much prefer it to be open next to the cooktop regardless - it's just a little overwhelming as is. I also would have forgone symmetry for offsetting the sink and cooktop - that seems so much more functional to me. That being said, if you are keeping the same layout I agree with giving 48" in the aisle to allow 2 people to work at the same time.

So if you can change all of the small stacked uppers to 18" that would be awesome!

To continue the flow of the 18" uppers to your pass through wall....I think you could maybe skip the two small single drawers (?) at the base of the two cabinets directly flanking the see thru glass cabs to fit in the 18" above them.

I would try and line up the cross piece on those flanking cabs with the bottom of the glass cabs. You'd have to work out the measurements so it all fits exact.

Here is sort of what I mean.

Maybe someone else has a better idea for this area?

It is certainly going to be a WOW with the see thru glass, so you want to get everything looking just right. Cannot wait for this reveal!

eta: sorry for the pathetic mockup, but best I can do on my silly iPad app. Maybe if you ask nicely Cpartist will work her magic again???

Ok here it is. :) But I also evened out the left end cabinet too.

I definitely have room to pull the island back towards our family room. It's probably 12" in further than we have now.

Good. Leave yourself 48"-54" between cooktop and sink and I think you'll be fine. It's going to be a stunning kitchen.

Seriously, you guys rock!

I know you didn't want me to get rid of the window, but we have so much natural light right there in the kitchen and family room that I was okay letting the window go. (Don't mind the messes!)

In addition, this is what we would be looking at out our windows along with a pool cage! I know we could put up bushes, but I just didn't really want to look at leaves right by our window all the time...

I don't have a problem with you losing the window. i can see you'll have plenty of light. I do have a problem with the cabinets at all different heights which is why I redrew it to show you with them lining up. :)

Also, the far left cabinets in the passthrough will be our "desk" area. One of the cabinet doors will house a whiteboard, key hooks, etc.

cpartist - I thank you so much for that!!!

Oh yeah, Cpartist, you definitely rock! How do you do those mock ups? What program? I need to learn to play. Hehe...

I just 'had' to google two sided glass cabinets and my jaw is on the ground. I mean just look at these beauties!!!

Erica, my goodness, you weren't kidding with the 22' wall of windows! Thanks for sharing those photos.

Yeah, I don't think in your case you'll have a problem with lack of view or light losing that one small window. Lol!

Girl, you are going to have one amazing home when you are done! Please, please share your journey as it progresses.

Could the hood be made of another material, rather than more cabinets?

And what if a little more breathing space were allowed on either side of the hood (between the hood and the adjacent uppers) like this:

I think mixing up materials a bit and allowing for some empty space, along with the lining up/streamlining cpartist did of the cabinets -- that'd be all you need on the range wall to make it look less chaotic and less overwhelmingly cabinet-y. Should be very pretty, really.

You could also consider clerestory windows or leaded/stained glass windows, both of which are nice additions to a wall with no view but is too big to just cover with cabinets.

Clerestory windows:

Wavy/leaded glass:

ETA -- another way to obscure the view out windows:

Verona Ranges across the country · More Info

However, I think the pass through wall and where the range wall meets the pass through could also use some neatening/de-complicating. I'll do another comment about those.

rebunky - that last picture is almost how I envision our space (but reversed) and a wall where that last tall glass cabinet is. Or the picture above that again with a wall but to the left.

I'm so excited to get started! I began this journey last December and didn't think it would take so long!!!

I wanted to add that I think my KD used Shiloh cabinets in her design because that's what she had so maybe that's why she didn't do 39/18 over 42/15? Either way it's a much better design than our kitchen cabinet guys came up with. (I'll post that next for giggles).

So here is what I started with before the KD. Keep in mind I'm a CPA hence all the numbers... I just couldn't get past the size of island and trying to be symmetric lol! I was also trying to figure out if we would keep nook table

This was before I switched to a MW drawer.

Try not to worry so much (or at all!) about symmetry. Really, in the grand scheme of things...

Erica said: cpartist - I thank you so much for that!!!

That was easy. Happy to help. Now you have to promise to come back and show us pics as it's being built and then a reveal. :)

Oh yeah, Cpartist, you definitely rock! How do you do those mock ups? What program?

Photoshop. :) Only took me 15 years to learn it. Actually I'm still learning it. LOL.

Oh it's much better.

I hope you can switch to 18" uppers. If not look into Wood-mode cabinets. I know they can do it. And they're another excellent brand. I believe it's what I'm going to use in my kitchen and my sister just finished a kitchen that she used them in.

I almost definitely can do 18". My kitchen guys build the boxes and order doors neither of which have been started. We are finalizing details and giving more $ this week. Or shall I say $$$$!

For the pass through, I am thinking that something like this would look a lot simpler/cleaner and less fussy.

So you'd be keeping the doorway from the kitchen to the dining room that you were going to close and losing the two tall skinny vertical stacks of cabinets on either side of the passthrough. Not only would that visually break up some of the continuous walls of cabinetry, but instead of that whole complicated area where the oven met the pass through, you'd just have a nice clean, straight line of cabinetry dying into the wall and some open space. Visually, that corner of the kitchen will be a lot less heavy and won't compete with the range for focus. Also, functionally, if you are going to be using the dining room more often, I think it'll be nice to have the dining room that much more open and accessible to the kitchen.

My last visual issue is how the angled windows now relate to absolutely nothing. They used to match the island angle and curve around a table. There were reasons for the wall to be like that.

Particularly with everything else in the new kitchen's being so square and symmetrical, that architectural oddity looks SO out of place.

You might at least do something like this to the island:

That said, while I think any/all of those changes would make the kitchen look a lot better, it doesn't really address the functional layout problems that make this mostly a one-person kitchen. I'll do a different comment with some suggestions about that.

Usually, you determine how much space you have, your goals, and then the general layout that would make the kitchen function best. THEN you figure out how to make the kitchen look pretty with everything where it needs to be to function best. It's always possible to make a functional kitchen beautiful. It is VERY difficult to do the reverse. And just brace yourself -- total symmetry is an enemy of function. The most useful kitchens have things staggered around the room so that people are not on top of each other when using them.

Funny that we originally started with keeping the doorway to the dining room but our living room is open to the dining room when you walk in and then with the passthrough cabinets we didn't want it to look like one huge open room on the side of our house.

If we don't put the sink in the center, where would you put it? There were so many inspiration photos on Houzz that were all lined up.

Could I put in a prep sink? Would that look funny in the passthrough area?

I like the idea. It can be used as a beverage area when entertaining.

English Country Waterfront · More Info