JDS,

I meant to say Drag Trusses. There's actually trusses missing. One is over the great room and it's supposed to connect to the shear wall at the back of the house. I believe all of the drag trusses were missing but I know of atleast two.

Thor thanks for filling us in.

I take it you'll be talking to your RE Lawyer to get your money back? I would be sure to talk to the bank too and let them know what is happening. Good luck.

I have not found a RE lawyer to represent me yet. My agent knows one in Colorado and she asked him a few questions on how we should proceed. His suggestion is to not talk to the builder anymore and get a RE lawyer. My brother in law is an attorney (not RE) and I'm having him glance over the contract tonight. He's also going to ask some of his attorney friends for RE attorney recommendations.

You might also ask the bank where you have your loan for a RE Agent unless the loan is from the builder. Honestly, I feel bad for you because you're getting a raw deal. But I also feel sorry for anyone buying one of their homes. You had the good sense to come on here when things made you uneasy. How many don't even know what to look for.

If the home is in UT, you need an attorney there (RE or possobly litigation with some RE background). RE law varies by state, but in general, a contract as certain implied covenants -- like meeting code and being safe and habitable when completed. There is no way I would go forward with puchasing this home. I wouldn't consider another home by this builder or in the development unless you could be comfortable that this is an isolated situation (not likely). Period. The only issue in my mind is whether you get your deposit back, and that is not so much a legal question as a practical one.

I think you have a good argument for being entitled to get the deposit back, but the real question is, whether you get an agreement or judgment and court order, would the builder have the funds to return your deposit. Theoretically, if not now, once the house is sold, they should. But the poor construction and the repairs are signs there may be financial problems and whethever the financial situation of the builder is, things are about to get worse. The problems may snowball for the builder, especially if this is not an isolated issue. Other homes don't pass and the fix-it costs keep going up. Sales are delayed -- or don't happen. The completed and occupied homes may start having issues and so on. Sooner or later, the builder may file for bankruptcy -- leave everyone stranded and then pick up down the road under a new company name.

Now, nothing there says don't try. I would make the claim and press -- I just wouldn't spend a lot of money on the process. Using the media is cheap and may be effective, but it could also speed up the snowball effect. Something to consider. A well structured letter from a good lawyer might get the builder to refund your deposit rather than fight with a lawyer and/or the media. Spending more to go to court will take a lot longer (possibly years) and may not increase the chances of getting your money back. I wouldn't waste time getting going. Transactions in the 90 days prior to bankruptcy filing can sometimes be challenged. You don't want to be in that position if you can avoid it.

Worst case -- losing your deposit may be less expensive than living in that house. We bought a 11-12 yr old home and have since discovered several different issues with the plumbing don'e during construction. About 4-5 were addressed during a kitchen reno, but our son couldn't use part of his bathroom for the months leading up to that. We had sewage pouring through our master bathroom ceiling and had to tear all of that out and re work the plumbing on the other upstairs bathroom and hotwater overflow line. But the most fun by far was discovering that a 7-8 foot segment of main drain line had absolutely no cement at either end during original construction. Had to tear out the entire powder room and a portion of the slab foundation under it, then put everything back together. Took a long time - a lot of $$$ and none covered by insurance. The builder was long gone...... My situation was expensive and inconvenient, but my house has never been in danger of falling down.

I would talk to an attorney if you can. I would not let $25K make you feel you cannot walk away. It may hurt to walk away and it may change your options, but it could save a life or at least months to years of headaches.

25k is a lot of money. Seeing this, I'd walk away. I really would. It would hurt badly but there is no way I'd continue. I'd probably spend 5k going after the deposit with a lawyer and that's it. No reason to throw good money after bad.

Thor --we walked away from 25K just because -- no real evidence things would go south like you have, just a feeling. Over a year later, we still think it is one of the best decisions we ever made.

The assumption is that professional, experienced, tradesmen are doing a quality job. The inspector is there to catch anything that they have missed, by accident. The inspector is not there to turn sh*t into ice cream. The quality needs to be built in. Not added on as an after thought. Just think of the plumbers / electricians / roofers / HVAC that this builder might use.

If you are posting under your real name you might consider stopping and find a new name and forum to discuss this.

Thor or TJ what has transpired so far? btw, I showed some of your pics and what the inspector had said to our builder and to quote my builder said, "A complete mess!"

Just wanted to wish the OP good luck in getting it all figured out! Are you building in Utah county?

I'm building in Salt Lake County. Not much has transpired yet. I'm having a RE attorney look over the contract. I may not be able to do anything until we go through a mediator but we'll see what the lawyer says.

The mediation requirement would only apply if the builder did not agree to release you from the contract and refund the deposit. If he is able to refund, he should. He should be bright enough to figure out that this house is not going to be on track and anyone who has seen this many problems is going to watching like a hawk, questioning everything and possibly not happy with anything. His best bet would be to mutually rescind the contract and then figure out just how bad the situation is and whether he needs to take it back to the foundation and start over.

I hope the attorney can convince the builder mediation would only add to his expense. Maybe the attorney should show him this thread along with the inspector's report and any further notes or comments from the inspector -- there really shouldn't be any doubt that the mediator is going to see your side. The only question is whether you could reasonably be expected to still have confidence in this builder and his contractors. If not, there isn't much else to talk about.

Along that line, go walk any other homes under construction in the neighborhood and take pictures to document the condition of the other houses if you find the similar issues (make sure the photos make clear it is another house -- take a photo of the sign in front showing the address, etc.)

Thanks for keeping us updated, TJ. I'm also hoping for a good outcome with this mess and that you can be made whole financially to move on to something else.

Lascatx last paragraph is good advice about taking photos of other homes in the development to use as more evidence.

I have a meeting with the owner tomorrow at the house. I don't want to give too many details on my actions going forward as it is sensitive information but I'll update you on the outcome of the meeting.

You're being smart right now TJ. Good luck with your meeting and thank you for keeping us informed.

Wise choice. Best of luck.

The meeting with one of the owners went as expected. He said they would fix all the items that did not pass inspection and get them up to code.

He agreed to provide a third party engineer to inspect the home with me after it passes city inspections to address any concerns I might still have. I also have a friend who's a structural engineer who will be inspecting the home after they pass city inspections. I'll rely on the engineers to ensure any repair work they do is sufficient.

There's only 1 other home that's finished framing in the community and I've inspected it. It's a rambler and a simpler plan but it looked good but I do not have the plans or truss detail so I could only go by what I saw.

There's 2 other homes being framed soon and I'll be watching those closely as well.

Do you have these promises in writing?

Good point chisue. If not, send him an email outlining everything you agreed to in the meeting and ask him to send back confirming.

Also, did you question him as to why the workmanship was so shoddy and if so, what did he say?

I summarized our plans moving forward in a text for confirmation and he confirmed. If that counts as in writing or not I'm not sure.

I am not going to let them move forward with the home until I am completely satisfied and assured by the engineers. If they try to do it any other way I will walk away, even if I have to risk losing the money I have put it so far.

The guy I met with didn't have much knowledge when it comes to building codes or construction in general. It's his business partner that handles all of those details and as far as explanations go so far it's mainly just excuses that are easily refuted. For example, they said the home wasn't finished when I inspected it as an explanation for the shoddy work done so far. Obviously this doesn't even make sense and I can press harder but I'll just get excuse after excuse.

As mentioned above -- you really need a RE attorney. If you are willing to walk away from 25K, you should look at the minor investment as possibly spending 10% of that to recoup 90%.

TJ, it could count, but I'd also do an email confirming again. This way you have it in two places. :)

Text is probative, but email is better and better still is a letter sent by email and regular mail. Certified to if you really want to cross all the T's.

When meeting with the builder about construction defects, the person in charge should have been there. I would insist on meeting with him. You want the guy who should know this stuff cold to get it, make sure he's on top of it, and follow through with you. You know how much can get lost in passing the message and the buck.

Just bumping this up, hoping to get an update.

Request update from the OP *in a new thread*. My pokey service takes a long time to load this thread with so many photos.

I would call a private inspector or engineer over right away. Give the report to the builder and copy to the city inspector if there is one. You have lots of good advice in the comments. Make sure the engineer represents you.

Request update from the OP *in a new thread*.

Nope. Proper internet etiquette would keep all questions about a topic in the same thread.

I think it's time to update your service if a few pictures makes that much of a difference. :)

I'm also curious if there's an update, but I wonder if his lawyer has advised him to keep quiet until everything is resolved.

greg - agreed. When one sees a thread without a resolution, often times it is impossible to find another related thread. Post the resolution here.

It is improper to break off the thread just because the pictures cause someone on a slow connection to run slow. The person on the slow connection can disable the loading of pictures automatically in their browser and only load the ones they want to see.

Browser can be set to not download images

I know what its like to become addicted to a someone's construction problems; they're so much more interesting than your own. There should be a therapy group thread for those who are waiting to hear the end results.

Well, most any of our projects could have turned into a hellish nightmare but for the favor of the fates. So yes, we want to see how this all turned out!!

Is it safe to assume you do not have an architect?

Mark, read the entire thread!

I do not have the time to read the entire thread. I did read TJ's comments and looked at the images (that beam bearing on OSB is amazing). There was mention of an architect, but I think they were working for the builder and of no benefit to TJ. Projects where an Owner hires an architect can benefit by having the architect observe the construction as part of their services. Often this will catch errors early and avoid or minimize problems.

I did read Virgil's comments also; he is spot-on.

Part of TJ's contract states:

"Seller reserves the right to repair or replace any defects or deficiencies in construction of the Property, both during the construction process and thereafter."

I would contend that the entire structure is defective or deficient and the builder should replace the entire structure using a different skilled rough carpentry crew, even if it is on a different lot.

I too would hate to live in a house with so many defects and deficiencies even if they all were repaired. I think TJ paid for a new home not a repaired home.

Good luck TJ.

I think TJ paid for a new home not a repaired home.

I like that.

Here's the update so far.

The builder has had the home pass city inspection. They also brought in a structural engineer from a company called LEI and the engineer did an inspection, found some more things that needed repair, and has passed the repair work they did.

The builder has fully dry walled the house. Today they were weather wrapping the exterior and installing doors and casings around the doors and windows.

The house was originally supposed to be complete Nov-Dec but it looks like it will be delayed until Jan at least.

Hi TJ. Did you also have your own inspector look over everything? Good luck with the rest of the build and thank you for keeping us updated.

Does it seem backwards to anyone else to drywall before the house is weatherized on the outside?

"Does it seem backwards to anyone else to drywall before the house is weatherized on the outside?"

Absolutely, unless by "weather wrapping", he means siding then I have seen them done at the same approximate time. Not ideal or the best but not the worst practice either in my opinion.

Sell this house immediately following possession and don't look back. It's a complete disaster of a constant warranty claim waiting to happen. It will only decrease in value as the defects and insurance claims multiply over the years. It will never be worth more than it is when they hand over the keys. Take advantage of tha and move on.

If he sells he'll have to disclose everything in this thread unless Houzz deletes it.

My lawyer told me the inspectors are only responsible for code and the homeowner is responsible for reviewing all craftsmanship issues. Be sure to push that end as well. Good luck and be sure to start developing a relationship with a good home inspector as well to check things out. Might be worthwhile getting him out there before they finish drywall if they haven't already.

First, I don't see any legal reason that you would have disclose something that doesn't meet your standards so long as it meets building code standards. You have to disclose known defects, just because he wanted a nicer house doesn't mean that this one is defective. He has a perfect alibi- "the building inspector said it was fine."

Second, your best bet is to become such a hassle that they fire you. This happens all the time. Many of these builders really don't want to deal with a problem customer, if you can get them to see the writing on the wall, they may let you out of the contract. It is a bit late for it now, but generally with tract builders you want to become a nuisance and not just a dissatisfied customer. One tactic is have them agree to fix something small, and then something else, then something else. Every other day find a small deficiency that you want corrected, each of these will seem reasonable and doable but over time your builder will get tired of dealing with you. Find good reasons for the fixes you are asking for. You can throw in a few expensive ones that are really important, but generally keep them small, but keep them coming.

It doesn't always work, and there is some risk. Also you can try talking to your lender. If he thinks it is bad enough he can pull the financing (assuming you have a financing contingency in your contract.)

Any update on this? Curious because I purchased in Herriman, Utah (10 minutes east of Draper) and had a completely different experience. Love this area and our builders were much better than the one the OP posted.

The structural engineer said they fixed all the issues so I closed on the house on Feb 1st. Structurally I have confidence in the home as it was looked over by a very meticulous city inspector as well as a structural engineer who did end up finding some things on top of what the city inspector found.

The finishing work on the inside was done very poorly however. I blue taped the hell out of the house during the walk through. There were paint runs on the trim pieces and stair railing. There are some arched and crooked ceilings where they should be flat. My hardwood floor creaks because it is not flat in some areas. There's a blue halo on the ceiling where it meets the walls, might be from the painters tape. I had a toilet that felt too close to the side wall and there was plenty of room to move it over a few inches. There's too many cosmetic issues to list but I blue taped them all.

They fixed few of the cosmetic issues but removed all the blue taped. They said I had to close because they had the certificate of occupancy. They said any remaining issues would be taken care of under the home warranty.

Many of the cosmetic issues I can learn to fix myself and I know I'd do a much better job than what they would do. Some other issues however I'm trying to get fixed through them. Like the toilet being too close to the wall, I came to find out there's a code requirement for how close it can be to a finished wall and mine was closer than code. The builder tried to tell me the distance was measured from the studs and not the finished wall but I had already looked into this heavily and knew it was from the finished wall. He agreed to move it 1.5 inches which brings it within code.

I'm not sure what to do about my hardwood not being flat. The house is level from one end to the other but within that there are high and low points. The variance is between 1/4 inch to 1/3 inch in a 2-3 foot space and is noticeable without a leveler. The builder says this is "industry standard" and normal. I might be able to get it fixed if I prove it's not, but not sure how to go about that. Are there inspectors I can hire?

Would I go with this builder and do it all over again? Definitely not. And they probably wouldn't want another home buyer like me I'd imagine.

Definitely hire an independent building inspector work with you now. Try the flooring forum to find out about flooring inspectors.

I've just read through this entire thread, and I am gobsmacked the OP actually bought this house!