I'm not a huge fan of Alitalia, mainly for their customer service and on-time performance. I don't know if things have improved since Etihad took a 49% stake. In Italy, strikes and work slowdowns used to be pretty commonplace, and all bets are off if this happens.

In contrast, Swiss has outstanding service. Lufthansa is OK but their economy is very cramped. If you two are taller, it can get painful. Germans are so tall and yet their country's airline has some of the smallest economy seats! Check out the seat spacing at this LINK

Our last trip to Italy was a couple of weeks ago. We stopped over in Geneva and Zurich -- we don't mind breaking up the flight. With United, we have status, and their ex-Continental routes have better planes and crews. Flights are getting so expensive to Europe, I think due to high demand from American's pent up demand (lower Euro).

On the Lufthansa flight that I checked, we would get acceptable leg room for the flight from L.A. to Frankfurt and then reduced space between Frankfurt and Rome, but that would be a very short flight. There would be a similar situation with SwissAir.

One of the problems I've heard with Alitalia is that it is completely unionized and that the employees do not have incentive to be nice to the customers. I'm not looking for that much attention from the employees, and so that might not be much of an issue for me, but if they have a strike, that would definitely be a problem. I've heard that the service with Lufthansa and especially SwissAir is much better, but there might not be that much more room. One of my concerns is missing a connection if we have to change planes. The cheapest flight is on Aeroflot, but we would have to change planes in Moscow, and my Russian is not that good - I can read some of it and only speak a little of it. Another option is Turkish Airlines, and that would require changing planes in Istanbul - I'm not keen on that either. I do not speak a word of Turkish and cannot understand their alphabet. Their food might be good, however.

That's a VERY long time to be on a plane.....can you get a flight that has a stop and not change airlines?
And I also second the extra leg room....I wouldn't for an 8 hour flight but you will be in that seat easily 16 hours.....

You can bring food, but follow the general rules for toiletries. That is, any separate paste, gel, etc. (think peanut butter, hummus, salad dressing), needs to be below a certain size (3.4 oz.?), and probably in a transparent container. No foil. The more solid it is, the easier.

I don't know if Alitalia does it, or if it's available at the other end, but I've seen services advertised that will deliver a good meal to the plane for you.

I'd be wary of seafood on an airplane, especially if you're not in first. Even the water on the plane is suspect, even the hot water.

If you're going to change planes anyway, you might consider Air New Zealand or Emirates or some other nice carrier.

Frankfurt is a big hub and a huge airport. I've made connections there many times but once I had to stay overnight in Frankfurt because I missed a connection. Same thing happened to my dh.

last summer we missed a connecting flight to Budapest so we were reassigned to two additional flights all in Germany. all of the German airports were big, modern, upscale with lots of appetizing food places. Tons of shopping. There is plenty of food around that I don't see the need to bring food. You will have the absolute best time in Europe. Pack light.

Also can you get a better price flying into Milan? It's been a long time but it was pretty easy to get around Italy by train if you pack light.

Non-stop flights to Milan from LAX are not available, and so I think it will be best to bite the bullet and go Alitalia non-stop. I do not want to have to go through customs and immigration twice, if I do not have to. That can take extra time and cause us to miss a connection. I'm sure there are many additional connecting flights to Rome from Frankfurt, but I would rather not have to go through that. Also, dealing with luggage will be easier if I go through customs only once.

I had seafood on Air France (crab), which was fine, but perhaps I will change our meal preferences. We can eat in the airport LAX before we depart, and I know we will receive some sort of food on the flight. Alitalia has an office on Century Blvd in Westchester that is outside the airport, and so we might go there in person on Saturday instead of trying to get information on line. The office is open every day until 7:00 PM but is closed on Sundays.

One consideration is to fly to Rome on Alitalia and return via SwissAir, since I would not have worry about when exactly I get home. That would save quite a bit of money, but we are prepared to pay $600 for an upgrade to premium economy on Alitalia. I wish I could just go to a travel agent office and have someone else handle this for me, like I used to.

There are no flights that have a stop without changing planes, unfortunately. When I flew on Air France, I went from Mexico City to Houston, but the same plane continued to Washington DC and Rome. The plane was full of Italians, including Sophia Loren, who had just been in Puerto Vallarta for the opening of a new hotel. She wore dark glasses in the Mexico City airport, although that did not prevent anyone from recognizing her. Air France from LAX does not fly directly to Rome, and neither does any other airline except Alitalia.

Here are some Yelp reviews from Los Angeles. Makes me rethink everything, but it is difficult to find good reviews for any airline. I'm going to check Air France again to see if they may have a flight with a stop that does not require changing planes.

Hi Lars. My husband and I did the exact same flight from LAX 4 years ago. I can honestly say if you can find another airline, take it. Or if locked into Alitalia, see if there is a flight with larger starts, fewer rows, less people squished together. Bring your own TP and paper towels and trash cans. Bring vacuum to sweep floor of food debris that falls off tray and isn't picked up. And finally, bring ear phones to drown out the moaning of the amorous couple that can't keep their hands off each other for the entire 16 hour flight.

We loved Italy and wish we could have stayed longer but Alitalia was a joke.Mary

You don't have to go through immigration and customs twice anymore. With the implementation of the EU and the Schengen agreement (includes Switzerland), you only need to go through passport control once and your luggage will check through. Incoming customs is not an issue. There is a risk of missing a connection, and the risk is highest on your flight out of Italy due to the labor issues mentioned (I have flown in and out of Italy over 15 times). On the return, you will need to go through customs once at the airport you arrive at.... this can take some time.

I noticed that Alitalia's premium economy for overseas flights is not only deeper in pitch but also wider. That's a double bonus versus some of the others.

Avoid Aeroflot. There are safety issues. We're not allowed to fly that and a few other airlines at work, unless there is no other alternative. However, Turkish Airlines had excellent service, food, and a great lounge. The intra-Europe flights will have a tighter pitch, but the flights are shorter.

I avoid economy class seafood, because of the overcooking issue. Some of the better airline meals I've had have been the vegetarian specialty menus, specifically the Indian vegetarian.

Woo hoo, Sophia. I bet she was so gorgeous she lit up the plane. I live in Chicagoland and Ohare airport is only 20-30 minutes from home. United Airlines home base so I am used to nonstop flights. I also know and accept the fact that if I want to go to some places in Europe, I might not get a nonstop other than the main capitals and to me, that's just 'the price of admission'. Not my first choice but ok. I am not crazy about flying. And the price of airline tickets is crazy now. Price is a factor for me.

If I want to see my daughter in Montana, with infrequent and expensive air service, I know it will be a connecting flight on a puddle jumper. That part is tough for me. We are flying dd and her bf to our new winter home in Tucson for thanksgiving and the tickets were over $1000 each. I am used to relatively cheap fares from Chicago so it's a shock-but its thanksgiving and its from Montana. And rarely nonstop.

Im not crazy about yelp reviews but sometimes thats all there is. Did you check tripadvisor.com for reviews. Thats my go-to for travel. Likely to find positive reviews there. More detail and usually better writing and all ages contribute. Yelp is used by younger ppl, no?

Has no one mentioned how the airline was named? Always Late In Takeoff, Always Late In Arrival. Seriously, though, I've never flown on Alitalia so I can't comment. One of the worst flights I've ever endured, though, was from Rome to JFK some years back on TWA (a.k.a. 'Try Walking Across'). Huge jumbo jet that was gonna be a pain to fill, and the flight was fully booked. As soon as they called for the first group of passengers, everybody flooded the gate so it took twice as long for the plane to load its passengers--such that I missed my connecting flight at JFK. I'm married to an Italian, and I have great admiration for the culture--food, wine, art, music, architecture, literature, fashion, you name it--but organizational skills would be way down on that list.

Once you're in Rome, however, if you have time, check out a little hole in the wall restaurant L'Orso 80 near the Piazza Navona. Fabulous food. I still recall a fantastic dish of pasta alla amatriciana. Wonderful stuff.

Lars, do you belong to AAA? They have a travel agency that books international.

I can also give you the name of a good independent travel agent if you want it.

wow, Lars. I just skimmed/read those terrible Yelp reviews and I was wrong about my assumptions. Sounds terrible. Those complaints were written by Adults. I wonder if tripadvisor has the same negative reviews. Lufthansa, a partner of United, is a pretty good airline. Maybe there is a positive to connecting where you can get off a 16 hour flight which I have heard can make people nutsy. A dilemma for sure.

Whatever, I'm sure it's going to be a GREAT trip!

Alitalia: I haven't flown them in years, but I'm sure like most airlines, service has declined as have seat space and comfort. Last year we flew RT NY to Rome on USAir. It was fine over; coming back it was one of the worse flights I have every taken and I have flown a lot. I purposely reserved (and paid to reserve early) an exit row for more leg room and the recline was almost nil.

Food: I'm pretty good at sleeping through out the flight so I bring snacks then just look forward to real food once at our destination.

Check out for a good trip tip website: http://www.karenbrown.com/

Last year we got a great price on at cruise $1,600 INCLUDING ROUND TRIP AIRFARE NYC to Rome and two nights at a 5 star hotel in Rome.

• Thurs, Dec 5, Arrive Rome
• Fri, Dec 6, Rome at Leisure
• Sat, Dec 7, Rome (Civitavecchia)
• Sun, Dec 8, Florence/Pisa (Livorno)
• Mon, Dec 9, Monte Carlo, Monaco
• Tues, Dec 10, Provence (Toulon), France
• Wed, Dec 11, Barcelona, Spain
• Thurs, Dec 12, Valencia, Spain
• Fri, Dec 13, At Sea
• Sat, Dec 14, Cagliari, Sardinia, Italy
• Sun, Dec 15, Carthage, Tunisia
• Mon, Dec 16, Palermo, Sicily
• Tues, Dec 17, Naples, Italy
• Wed, Dec 18, Rome (Civitavecchia)

Thanks for all the information and links - it's been extremely helpful. I am still a bit leery about flying Alitalia, and so now I am considering flying to and from Zürich on SwissAir. That would cost us about $1850 round trip each, and we would then take trains to Rome, changing trains in Milan. I am a lot more comfortable traveling by train and have done it extensively in Mexico in the 1970s and early 80s when they had excellent passenger train cars that they got from the U.S. when Amtrak took over. I have set aside two weeks for the trip, although I do not want to spend more than 12 or 13 days traveling. That should still give us plenty of time in Rome, which is the main place we want to visit. It would probably be nicer arriving at the Rome train station instead of FCO. Zürich is still pretty far from Rome, and I sort of wonder if we should plan a stopover in Milan, since we have to change trains there anyway. Milan is not on my list of places to visit, but it might be more restful to stop there. If we can get a good connection to Rome, I would skip it. I think spending a day or two in Zürich would be quite nice, however.

The non-stop flight to Rome is 12 hours (13 hours return), and the flights to Zürich are about 45 minutes shorter - still long but not impossible.

Westsider, where did you get the information about the seat widths on Alitalia? I got some info on Google, but nothing concerning widths, and it was unclear about the difference between economy and premium economy. I'm still considering Alitalia.

It wasn't me. Perhaps Gooster . I think she sent you a link.

I was a travel agent for 14 years but never flew Alitalia so really can't comment. But I would definitely pay attention to the reviews! And there are still a few travel agents out there if you really want to have someone take care of all of this for you.

Personally, I would do the connection through Switzerland, especially if your layover allows enough time to leave the airport for a bit and do some sightseeing. Switzerland is easily one of my very favorite places in Europe.

You should be able to communicate just fine with the knowledge you have of so many languages. In the airports and major European cities most everyone speaks English at least to some degree.

You are going to LOVE Europe! I really miss my travel agent days and have not been back to Europe in a while. I need to start thinking about a trip there myself!

Linda

Because they partner with Delta, we took Alitalia round trip from Boston to Barcelona this past spring cashing in frequent flier miles. I hope never to fly that miserable airline again. Upon takeoff , my seat jerked backwards and I was never able to return it to a comfortable angle. Propped myself up with pillows the entire flight. Took 3 days before the back pain went away. The flight attendants were rude and bossy. Who cares about the food?. Can't remember any of it, but no booze served on the flights (even for sale) except beer/ wine. I don't fly well without gin and tonics...Oh, and no personal inflight entertainment. What a 3rd world outfit.

Overall, the airline really sucks. No matter what the Pope says.

You are right, it was Gooster, "I noticed that Alitalia's premium economy for overseas flights is not only deeper in pitch but also wider. That's a double bonus versus some of the others."

I did find that Alitalia premium economy seats have 37" compared to 32" for SwissAir economy, and that seems like a very significant difference. Kevin is determined to take Alitalia after communicating with a friend of his who goes to Rome every year, even though his friend goes on Lufthansa. Kevin has decided that he does not want to take trains to and from Zürich, which is understandable - we can visit Switzerland on a separate trip, and I am uncomfortable changing planes in Frankfurt on the way to Rome. It's a bit sad that no one likes Alitalia, but I think I am willing to give them a chance, since they offer significantly larger seats and a non-stop flight. I think I can put up with the rest of the annoyances. I've heard it referred to as a 4th world outfit.

Lots of airlines have alternate names; TACA (the Guatemalan airline) used to be called "Take A Chance", but had cheap flights from Cancun to New Orleans. On one trip back from Cozumel, I went through Cancun on my way to Houston and happened to run into a couple of friends from New Orleans (whom I knew when they were in San Francisco), and I talked them into switching to the flight I was on to Houston, as they were desperate to get back to New Orleans. I told them they could stay at my friend's house in Houston before leaving for N.O. the next day, and my friend was happy to accommodate them. I flew LACSMA (the Costa Rican airline) from L.A. to Mexico City once, and they made me pay $20 extra to get on the plane because, as they said, they had raised the cost of the flight since I had bought the ticket! The only reason I chose that airline was that it was $20 cheaper than the others. When I flew to Costa Rica, I made a point to avoid Costa Rican airlines.

The Alitalia office is seven minutes from our house, and we will go there on Saturday to try to get a feel for the air line. We will have time to make different arrangements. If they confirm the comfort of their seats (i.e. increased width as well as depth), then I think it will be worth the price. The reviews are very discouraging, however, and I'm not sure I want to use that airline both ways.

Because travel has gotten so uncomfortable, I try to focus on the destination. That has worked for me except this last trip where a 4 year old and a 1 year old sat behind me the entire trip...it was miserable. I understand that kids are going to be uncomfortable and confined but the parents didn't even try to calm the kids or even suggest that they NOT kick the seat in front of them (mine).

I did thank the mother as we deplaned on making it one of the most miserable flights ever.

It's easy to stop the kids kicking. Just reach through and grab an ankle and hold it. Nah, just kidding! I have less couth than you, and absolutely would've said, "Can you please stop kicking my seat?" with my head tilted towards the family. The one exception is hockey the other night. Free tickets for all of us, and so, I let it go when they got up when the puck was in motion. Paid for the ticket and I wouldn't have let it slide.

Lars, check out airlinequality.com for pertinent reviews of Alitalia. Short flights get ok marks but long overseas flights get bad reviews, generally.

Yes, I was the one who posted and linked about SeatGuru.com. The site is so helpful in order to pick the right seat on whatever flight you are taking. Not all airplane configurations are equal -- even with the same model number. The interiors are customized to the airline. Believe me, over 12 hours, the extra 1.5 inches of width may not sound like much, but can make the difference between sore hips and not.

Lars, Swiss does offer a premium economy product as well. I lived in Switzerland, so in the future when you take that trip, ask away. You'll love your trip to Rome. With two full weeks, I hope you take time to branch out as well to another Italian city. Two years ago, after staying and visiting with friends in Rome we did a drive up through Umbria and Tuscany -- it was terrific.

Lars,

I'm sure you have thought of this but have you considered flying out of the East Coast or maybe returning via the East Coast? LAX ==> JFK ==> FCO for example?

Yea! Yesterday was Lufthansa's inaugural flight out of Frankfurt nonstop to Tampa International Airport. We will now be a hub for Lufthansa with 5 non-stops to Frankfurt each week.

Gooster, we did the same trek (Umbria and Tuscany). This is a picture of the villa we rented.

Mike, connections through NY to Rome are not as good as the ones in Europe and would involve even more complicated transfers. The way the terminals are set up, it is easier to transfer in Europe. I've not yet seen any offers from airlines for transferring through NY, and so that might involve me having to check in twice.

I was thinking of maybe spending the first three days in Rome, then four days in Florence, and the last five days back in Rome. We are not expecting this to be our only trip to Italy and do want to see Switzerland and Germany as well. I would like to visit Greece, but now may not be a good time to go there.

At one point I considered doing a house swap with someone in Rome - a friend of mine did that when she went to Paris, and it worked out well for her. There are a lot of Italians who visit Los Angeles, although we may not be traveling when they want to come here.

I did some more checking and found one website (momondo) that allowed me to check for all flights that are premium economy, and I found that Air France also offers this and is the only other airline besides Alitalia that has premium economy between LAX and Rome. The price is pretty much the same as Alitalia, but if the plane will be more comfortable, then we will be okay with changing planes in Paris. There is a 2:55 layover going to Rome and a 1:35 layover going back, which seems reasonable, if the flights are on time. I've flown on Air France before and liked it. The flight attendant spoke to me in French, although she spoke to other Americans in English, and so I guess I looked like I was French. Everyone in Mexico asked me if I was French, and so I know I do not look like a typical American. I used to practice Spanish with a friend from Paris in my Spanish class, and so I may have spoken Spanish with a slight French accent as well. Afterwards, I picked up a Mexico City accent. The French I learned as specifically for travelers, and so I should be fine with that.

I have to check seat comfort on Air France and make sure that the planes are not worn out like the Alitalia planes. There are plenty of seats available for the flights we want, and so I have some time before I have to buy the tickets.

I found this info on TripAdvisor, comparing Air France and Alitalia, which now makes me think that I would prefer to go AF to Rome and AZ returning.

After much pondering, we decided to proceed with flying on Alitalia. We were going to fly Air France to Rome and return on Alitalia, but that option was not available - the only way to fly both AF and AZ was to take AF on the way home, and I did not want a 1:15 layover in Paris, as that might be tight for making connections. As it turns out, I did not like the time of arrival for AF in Rome; AZ will get us there at about 1:00 PM vs 7:30 PM for AF, and so flight times really work much better for AZ. I'm a bit relieved that we will not have to change planes. The price for premium economy was the same for both AF and AZ, and so that did not become an issue. The main advantage of AF over AZ is that AF uses Airbus 380 and AZ uses Boeing 777, which is a much smaller plane. On AF, we would have been in the upper portion of the plane and would have had good views from the windows, but on AZ, our seats will be right over the wings. We do have windows seats in both directions, and the configuration is 2 - aisle - 4 - aisle - 2, which means no one will be sitting next to us.

We have eight months to plan the rest of our trip, which should be plenty of time. I'm not sure how soon we will need to get hotel reservations, but I want to wait until we get some more money before we do that, which should happen in the next couple of months.

Thanks again for all of your help! For me, it was a bit of a difficult process to press the button to "pay" over $5000 for the tickets. This is by far the most expensive on-line payment I've made so far! Costa Rica was a fraction of this cost, but we had economy seats and therefore had rather uncomfortable flights of about 5 hours each way. This trip is more than twice as far.

Lars -- congratulations. I'm certain you'll have a great time. Check back when you are planning out your travels. We did AirBnB in Rome and that worked great.

@mustangs81 -- the Villa you rented looks fantastic! We stayed in several places as we moved from Rome up to Florence (for our flight out). We stayed in a similar looking property outside of Montepulciano that was a relais/agriturismo (a converted palazzo) in the middle of vineyards. My only regret on that trip was that I did not know that Montepulciano was home to one of the master copper workshops in the world (Rameria Mazzetti), and that I could have picked some high quality copper cookware up for the kitchen.

We were planning to check out AirBnB in Rome, and so I hope that works out for us as well! I cannot imagine renting a villa, although I have seen photos of many where I felt I could spend the rest of my life!

Lars, I'm of no help with the airlines, as I've never travelled out of the country other than to Mexico and Canada, and only been on a plane three times. Once we flew to California and once to Texas and once I went to Washington DC with a group of 5th graders from White Cloud. That's pretty much enough for me, I do not like flying at all, although I can do it if I have to.

I just wanted to tell you to have a wonderful time and be sure to take lots of pictures. I'm happy enough to see other people's pictures and not have to go there myself. Travel safely!

Annie

We're thinking of going to Rome for a long weekend and a friend of mine who lives in Bologna always stays at this place when she goes to Rome. She says it's very simple, but spotless and very well situated. Also a bit quirky and different! Staying with monks seems the right thing to do in Rome!

DOMUS VITELLIA

“Casa per ferie” - Via Vitellia, 95 00152 Roma – Tel.: 06.536028 Fax: 06 5342484

E-mail: info@domusvitellia.it

LISTINO 2014

PRIVATI e FAMIGLIE

B & B in multipla € 35,00

B & B in singola € 43,00

Bambini 0/5 anni Gratis

Bambini 6/12 anni (B & B) € 25,00

Supplemento Pasto (bevande escluse) * € 15,00

 I prezzi sono da intendersi a persona, a notte, la prima colazione è inclusa

 Nella tariffa è escluso il contributo di soggiorno del Comune di Roma pari a € 3,50 a persona a notte.

 Per la conferma di prenotazioni fino a tre notti è richiesto il versamento di una caparra pari

all’importo della prima notte da far pervenire entro la scadenza della data di opzione.

Per soggiorni superiori alle tre notti si richiede una caparra pari al 30% dell’importo totale da versare

entro la scadenza della data di opzione.

( * ) Il servizio ristorazione ( mezza pensione o pensione completa ) è riservato ai gruppi superiori

Thanks, Islay - that is a lot less expensive than I was expecting. The last line of your message got cut off, and so I do not know the size of the group required for restaurant service. Otherwise, I understood the rest of the Italian, and so I do not expect language to be too much of a problem for me. Kevin is trying to learn a few phrases in Italian, but he does NOT want my help, even though I told him that I would correct his pronunciation if necessary. He found something on line that he can talk to, and he would rather learn from a computer than from me, it seems.

There are hotels in Mexico that used to be 16th Century convents, but they are quite expensive, compared to other options.

Annie, I did most of my traveling in my 20s and 30s, and while I had a lot less money, I was very flexible and could endure hardships much better than I can now! I do not like flying, and I especially do not like airports. I have many nightmares about missing flights and connections, even though this has rarely happened to me. I missed a bus once in Palenque, and I missed a train once in Nuevo Laredo - the first because I was two minutes late and the second because my connection did not arrive on schedule, and so I had to take an overnight bus instead of an overnight train to Mexico City. I am never late to airports, but I have dreams in which I am still packing just minutes before my flight is supposed to leave. In one particularly bad dream, I was forced to take an alternate flight in which I had to help fly the plane, and that was a near disaster.

My mother had a great fear of flying and never got on a plane her entire life, even though her own mother flew to Europe many times. My mother would travel by trains, however, which is how she went to New York when she 19 or 20. I guess she was not very adventurous and did not inherit Wanderlust from her own (German) mother. I have noticed that Germans travel a lot, and so I guess I did inherit the Wanderlust gene, as I like to visit other places - I just do not like the "getting there" part, with the exception of trains.

Lars, I can tell you from experience that picking up knowledge from a brother casually is lovely, but being instructed by a brother is just awful. I'd rather take the online course, as well, than have my pronunciation corrected by my brother. To you, it probably sounds like you're being helpful. To Kevin, it probably sounds like you're showing off an advantage over him. :)

It has nothing to do with showing off - it is only my trying to be helpful. Whenever he puts limits on me, I respect those limits, and there is no competition between us. It is a different story with our sister, who is extremely competitive. She is the type who likes to show off an advantage. I take help from anywhere I can get it, however, even from my sister, although she is very reluctant to take help from me, even in my fields of expertise. She was very jealous of me as a child and perhaps has not gotten over that.

I would love to have a brother who could teach me foreign languages, and I have had Kevin teach me many things already that he knows better than I do, particularly with computer graphics. I am more anxious to learn from him than he is to teach, however. On occasion, he does want me to help him with cooking, although he cooks very rarely.

I traveled with a friend from San Francisco in Mexico City (he met me there, as he was not going to stay as long as I was), and he also resented when I tried to help him with Spanish, but my goal was to help him avoid offending my friends by using the wrong pronouns. He had had much more formal Spanish than I had, and had a much larger vocabulary, but his Spanish was Castilian and fairly different from the way my friends in Mexico City spoke. I would not have said anything to him if my friends had not told me that they were offended. Some people are more willing to learn any way they can than others. I learned a lot of my Spanish from friends and was always grateful when they would help me. From my experience, it is more difficult to find someone willing to teach.

Kevin was very dependent on me in Costa Rica (and also in Mexico) to communicate with people in Spanish, and at times I would try to get him to attempt to speak more Spanish. I think he had Spanish in high school, but he rarely uses it. The other thing is that I am much more talkative than he is, and so it is easier for me to speak to people, even though he taught art classes when he was getting his MFA.

Some people just don't do the learning/teaching thing well. There are different types of learners, which the establishment break down as visual, auditory and physical. Most people do best with a combination of all three, but some people lean heavily to one or away from one and really need a different strategy to learn. When I was taught how to teach language, the big thing was to do it in a naturalistic way. That is, the student should be engaged with the language, not merely observing, should actually hear the language as spoken, not the mathematics of choosing the right conjugations, etc., should understand the bulk of what's being said so that the rest comes through from context, because if you don't have a clue you can't learn, and the student must identify with the speakers of the language. People say they want to learn a language to communicate with workers, but they really don't identify with the workers and usually only learn the bare amount of poorly expressed language they need to communicate. The exception would be if they find the workers interesting and want to learn about their lives and cultures, and respect and admire them.

I, personally, also like the schoolroom part, where you learn the grammar. It helps me make sense of what I'm learning. But I'm weird that way. :)

When in doubt, try alcohol. It famously reduces inhibitions and loosens the tongue.

Un bebida, estás amigo

Dos, estás hermano

Tres, hablas como habitante

Can anyone comment about what this website is? I was looking as to what kind of airline Alitalia is and the majority of answers are not only people who have NOT only been on Alitalia who have flown on that airline but some haven't even flown to Europe at all! And the last post was from someone talking about teaching, and from the looks of it (and the pop up too) this is a home improvement site-is this a free for all forum where people with too much time on their hands do NOT answer the question? That's what I get not not going on TripAdvisor LOL!! Well, if I do a search on another topic and this site pops up, I guess I'll just ignore it.

And come to think of it, please someone tell me why someone would post the question on this website at all, just curious!!

It's a website for those who have all kinds of questions. Some are about gardening, some cooking, some about house decorating, but we also share our lives and opinions. Sorry it wasn't what you wanted, but hopefully, you will find what you need.

Before I answer your question Jeff, what kind of person posts to a two year old thread? Well, to be honest: other than you, plenty of other people even on this 'Discussion' who often aren't paying attention to the age of the thread. But, of course, it would be wiser to start new threads.

And Jeff: it is wise to at least pay attention to the Title of a thread where in this case the Original Poster indicated that the Post was partially Off Topic. Perhaps you aren't familiar with the common notation O/T or OT to indicate 'off topic'. I believe that should answer your curiosity. Furthermore: this 'Discussion' is a Cooking Forum where cooking and preparation and eating are covered. The original post was only partially off topic because it was asking about the quality of food on the airline in question.

I'm sure that if you looked further down a Google Search on that airline, that you would find many links that aren't airline websites and many that don't even relate to that airline at all, but rather to similarly spelled words.

But just like mis-'dialing' a phone call and meeting someone interesting; perhaps you would like to learn something about cooking. That's why I'm here. You might like it too. You are certainly welcome to look around and join us.

I consider this forum to be a community - at least that was how it started out. It is certainly not meant to be as narrowly defined as TripAdvisor, which is larger and varied enough to have many specific subforums. Gardenweb also has a travel forum, but it has very few posts, and so it is rather pointless to expect to get much information there.

We used to have a dedicated "conversations" section in this forum, but it did not survive the transition from Gardenweb to Houzz, even though many people still wanted it. Since we no longer have that section and many of us still feel like a community, we occasionally have O/T threads - none of which are meant to offend.

As for Alitatlia, I will say that I had a very good experience with that airline, but that was two years ago, and I would think that you would prefer to read more recent reviews, since the airline has experienced labor problems lately. I hope it survives, one way or another, as I intend to go back to Italy in the fairly near future, and it had the only non-stop flights from LAX to Rome.

I posted the question on this forum because I am familiar with many people who regularly post here, I value their opinions, and I know that many have been to Italy in the past. If I post on TripAdvisor, I have to rely on the kindness of strangers, but I have gotten good advice there as well, especially for Fiji, and I learned about the Fiji forums on TripAdvisor on this forum.

By the way, I did a Google search for Alitalia and did not find this thread or forum at all, and so I'm not sure how you found this!

Lars, you are right. This forum has always been about community , friendship and sharing...oh yes and cooking too,

We have come together with our love of food and cooking and that has created a special atmosphere that allows us to move beyond the narrow parameters of " Cooking" because after all cooking is all about sharing. ..food comes second

This forum is like being in a Jerry Seinfeld episode. It's about nothing and everything.

Once in a while, it's okay to take the road less traveled.

Sol

As I reflect on this more it occurs to me that we had a very unique, shared experience on this forum going back years ago. It was up close and personal, more so than other forums.

I think it would be very difficult for those who weren't here in those days to understand just how personal it was. We shared recipes, party problems, cooking dilemmas but also personal joys and heartbreaks, ups and downs. We met in person , we sent each other parcels, we agreed and heaven knows we disagreed!

I have tons of great recipes and hints from here and I smile when I use them. ....but I cherish the memories most

I went back to reread this thread and found all of the posts to be pretty much on topic (until the very last three or four), and there is a lot of information regarding Alitalia and other options for European travel. Therefore I really cannot understand why JeffMJohnson was complaining. His post makes very little sense to me, and particularly the comment complaining about people with too much time on their hands. I consider having time on one's hands to be a wonderful thing - I wonder what alternative he thinks would be better.

Oh, and my trip was not two years ago - it was June of last year. As I said, my experience with Alitalia last June could not have been better - both flights left and arrived on time, and there were no glitches. The seats were very comfortable, and the service was all I could have expected.

If I had not had time on my hands, I would not have been able to take the trip, but since I am now semi-retired, I do have the time to travel and also to share information about my trip to help others. So, Jeff, if you have questions about Alitalia, I will be happy to share more information about it, if that is what you want. As a side note, everyone who commented on this thread has been to Europe, with the exception of Annie, and she was just offering my moral support, which I very much appreciated.

jeffmjohnson26, I understand you are new to the Forum and only posted twice so far. Let me welcome you to join the conversation.

This is a "Cooking Forum", yes. A cooking forum is like your dinner table, you can talk about food, or anything else.

Tell us about yourself. Don't worry about off-topic.

dcarch

I have found that when joining a new forum anywhere it's always best to read lots of posts and get a feel for the personality of it before launching in and posting myself. Makes you look more like a Secret Master of the Intewebs and less like a pillock.

As Chase says, we have had some very significant friendships and experiences with others on this forum. I once theorized that I could plan a trip anywhere in the United States and parts of Canada and not ever have to book a hotel room, there would be a couch somewhere that would welcome me, owned by a member of the Cooking Forum. I have had at least six members visit my home and spend the night, and had one "get together" that I hosted with several members. One member not only came and stayed at my home, she brought her sons with her. I'm hoping that Lars comes to Michigan and I'll find space for both him and his brother, they're always welcome. That's the kind of friendships we have developed here.

You're welcome to stay and get to know us, even if you don't have as much "time on your hands" as we do. You'll hear about kids and pets, travel and hobbies and jobs and family and pretty much everything else. There'll be some cooking too.

Annie