Ripping out brand new, never used, builder grade kitchen... Crazy?

tinker_2006

9 years ago

Hi friends,

We are going to be building a new, semi custom home, but after viewing the design center, I'm really disappointed in my cabinet selection they offer (Home Depot - American Woodmark). They will not offer a credit and have to put the kitchen in, The upgrades are over-priced ridiculous... Maybe it would be easier if I was green to building, but I'm not, and our current home has beautiful, custom build cabinets that were half the price of the upgrades this builder offers. I might be able to swallow the kitchen upgrade cost - IF I LIKED THE CABINETS, but I don't! The white is too white for me and the other option is too creamy for my taste.

I'm thinking of purchasing the bare bones, and replace the cabinets before we move in. I'm sure that new, custom built will be less than the $22,000 upgrades (upgrades is basically the range hood, door panels on island, and a few other little stuff). How crazy does this sound? Or it it worth considering upgrades, keep the boxes and replace the doors only? I HAVE to order the granite I want - and that is making me nervous.. that it will have to be removed and replaced. This is NOT a big kitchen at all.. we are scaling down home size, but I don't want to scale down home quality.

Featured Answer

omelet

9 years ago

I agree with Amber. But if you do decide you are going to pay for the cabinets, carpet (and possibly other items) and have them installed and then taken out and replaced, here is a suggestion. Tell your builder you understand you are going to pay for the carpet and the cabinets. But instead of installing them in your house, contact your local Habit for Humanity. Have them arranged to be put in the next Habitat house. You could get a charitable tax deduction, you can feel good knowing these products will be used and appreciated, and your builder can get positive credit in the community. Something to consider.

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Comments (35)

Buehl
9 years ago
Can you order the cabinets from someone else and deliver them to your builder to put in - and let them know that you know you won't get a credit for the cabinets they normally provide? (probably not, but it can't hurt to ask)
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Buehl
9 years ago
Oh - regarding counters. Why not put in inexpensive laminate or butcher block for now? Or, won't they let you do that either?

This doesn't seem like a "semi-custom" home, it sounds like a cookie-cutter builder home (like Ryan or Ryland or similar builders).
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Nice, I especially like what you did in the kitchen. Too often the advice here is that people should save up to rip out a perfectly functioning kitchen with solid cabinets instead of making incremental improvements like changing the backsplash, repainting the cabinets and installing new reasonably priced countertops. I love the new laminate countertops. They make a huge difference in that kitchen. I am not a fan of the stacked stone backsplash, but as long as your parents love it that is all that counts!
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For the record, I really like what you’ve done so far with your house. I think it’s hard for posters of a certain age to understand that trends, particularly among the younger generations, is much more fluid and can’t be contained to one genre. We are far less rigid, and for us, decorating is a process, not an event, resulting in a house that is uniquely OURS. (I’m posting this from my room with a leather sectional, rustic bench, scandi-inspired wet bar, and mcm bookcase.) I agree with previous posters that hardware will make a world of difference in your cabinetry. I lean toward matte black (might be too dark, it’s hard to tell from photos) or an unlaquered brass or brushed gold, if you have that anywhere else. Switching the faucet out to something less generic of a style/finish would also help. I would look for some rugs (I tend to like a flat-weave) with a subtle pattern/texture and maybe some patterned throw pillows for the couch. A cool backsplash would help, but I think you’ll want to replace your counter (and maybe sink?) when you do it, so I would hold off for now until you decide for sure what you want. There are some decent laminates out there, even prefab ones that don’t have the built-in 4” backsplash, which would go a long way toward making your kitchen look custom.
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For the intended use in the foreseeable future, I would not spend that amount of money - plus deal with the aggravation - in order to open up the kitchen. At a certain point - especially if you have been renting it, there would probably need to be major remodeling of the kitchen anyway just from use. Since it is a townhome presumably there are equivalent homes with the same layout which would provide insight into whether it is something that other people have done in the development. Obviously people are different but I personally wouldn't care whether there was an open kitchen plan in a BnB type of short rental. I would be more concerned with location and cleanliness and comfort of beds and also whether there was a great shower. Interesting about how property is assessed. I am also in an area in which taxes are based on initial purchase price with very modest increases permitted. Theoretically remodeling triggers an assessment when permits are pulled. However, when I read the regulations, it appears that most home "improvements" aren't cause for an increased assessment since "replacements" don't cause an increase. If you "add" something like an additional bathroom or square footage it would theoretically cause an increase. There is a gray area in which *theoretically* the quality of the replacements is considered but that is really unworkable in practice since anytime someone replaces the kitchen cabinets (for example), the *quality* is going to be better presumably especially in an older residence.
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Please ignore the clutter :P Nope, can't do it. First, you have such a long, uninterrupted stretch of counter top, you must have something out ... otherwise, it looks empty, and that's its own problem. What you need is to curate your clutter, which will always be a part of your kitchen. Ideas: - You have a smattering of bottles near the stove. Gather them onto a little tray (colorful tray, not white), and now they're intentional. - You have a coffee pot. I'd move it to the far right cabinet and add a basket to hold coffee "stuff". Add a mug tree or hooks under the cabinet to suspend them. Identify the coffee area with a small (colorful) placemat or small runner. The idea is to make it intentional, not just something that's left out. - The cord by the bar stools is bothering me. I feel like the cabinets definitely need to be painted Absolutely not. Your cabinets are -- as another poster said -- uninteresting, but if you paint them, they'll still be one long line of plain cabinets. Said differently, they'll be uninteresting in a different color. Instead, consider removing the center panel /putting glass into a couple cabinets. Since the interior of your cabinets won't be finished, go with opaque glass. Or lace over the glass. Realistically, your cabinets are your background, your base. You must add interest elsewhere, but this is very possible. and I would love to extend my cabinets to the ceiling. To the ceiling! Always to the ceiling. But since you probably can't do that right now, consider adding baskets up top. Simple, square baskets that would give the appearance of being an intentional way of bringing the cabinets to the ceiling. Keep the color close to your cabinets. This adds storage, of course, but it also gives you a new texture and something natural in your kitchen. Done right, this can look like it was a plan. I was thinking navy blue and white ... so leaning towards all white cabinets. You're right to be nervous about navy. Without natural light, it's not for you. But all white doesn't seem like a good choice either ... all white is not easy or cheap to pull off well, and your kitchen doesn't seem like a natural choice for all-white. I'd paint the walls instead. Something bright like a buttery yellow or a robin's egg blue. That big swash of wall at the end of the kitchen /the space above the cabinets -- if painted -- would bring in a good bit of color. Do not for one minute consider painting your uppers and lowers different colors. That's trendy right now, but your kitchen is already long /painting the uppers a different color would divide things in a bad way. Add crown Yes to crown -- 1000xs yes to crown. One reason this space looks builder-basic and uninspired is that the ceiling line looks unfinished. You can go with a simple crown, even something you can do yourself, but crown molding will enhance, upgrade, improve your space exponentially. backsplash tile Backsplash, yes. Doesn't have to be tile, which is expensive. . Wallpaper or stenciling would give you an immediate burst of personality just as well. new counters In a perfect world, yes, but that's real money. When you're able, OP, keep it light but not so super-basic as you have now. new hardware Totally yes. I missed this one, but -- looking back -- your pulls are medium-dark and kinda blend in. Sometimes that's the right choice, but not here. You need an influx of personality, so choose something lighter /brighter. And don't go with simple silver buttons -- something with personality. Hardware is the jewelry of the kitchen. replace over the stove microwave wtih a vent hood. Thing is, where's the microwave going to go? If it can go into a cabinet or into -- is that a pantry beyond the kitchen? -- sure, but if it's going to land on the countertop and become clutter, no. Of course, this assumes the OP cares about the microwave. She might be willing to nix it. the main thing you need is a bit of color. Some art work on the walls. Some colorful rugs here and there, and with that long span of cabinets, a few colorful pieces of glass ware, or something nice to look at on top of the cabinets. You dont need to clutter them, but, it is lack of accessories, you need more than anything. Yes. Again, 1000xs yes to color and accessories: - Sure, neutral kitchens are trendy right now, but those magazine-worthy white /gray /natural wood kitchens ALL have large, lovely windows bringing in perfect morning light. That's their focal feature -- that's why they look great, even without committing to a color. You cannnot have that, so you must bring in color to add interest. - You already have plenty of neutral, basic, simple to ground your kitchen. You are not in danger of going overboard. You need to bring in bold through your color and accessories. - Pick a color that you like for your principle shade, but bring in some print and texture as well. - Add colorful chair mats to the bar stools, and add a couple small "stacked" pieces of artwork next to the chairs. - Add a colorful teapot or soup pot to the stove. Other thoughts: - That door at the back of the kitchen is a black hole to nowhere. Right now it (nothing) is a focal point. Keep the door closed -- put it on a swivel, if necessary -- and add a pretty wreath. While you're at it, add a matching wreath to the door on the right of the kitchen. - Lose that black chalkboard (chalkboard?) by the door. Nothing dark for you -- your kitchen needs light, bright, bold accents. That chalkboard just adds to the black hole effect. - Consider an accent above that door -- a couple decorative plates? Not word art -- too neutral for your space. - You can have a tall-skinny piece of artwork (or several small items "stacked") above the trash can. - Natural accents are necessary. Add a plant at the end of the cabinet near the trash can, and add a hanging plant above the seating bar. - You have loads of functional light in this kitchen, but it's not doing anything for the looks of the kitchen -- I wish the builder hadn't gone with such large lights. You need something in the center for personality -- something "more" than Swiss cheese ceiling lights, something dangle-y, something that ties into the metal on your cabinet hardware. And maybe a second, smaller version of this central light above the seating bar.
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herbflavor
9 years ago
the kitchen could be sold on Craigs list I would think. Plenty of people looking for deals.
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tinker_2006
Original Author
9 years ago
No buehl, I don't believe they will allow me to supply the cabinets, but I will address that question. Granite level 1 is their standard, otherwise I would pick laminate. It is a builder similar to Ryan, but not on such a grand measure. The builder does offer custom builds on your own lot, so they are able to , but choose not to for their profit.

We already know we are carpeting with the standard, and ripping it all out and replace with hardwood flooring from a local flooring store. The builder has limited selections that he will do, at $16.00 a sq. ft. - I can get from a flooring company for $7.80 installed. I can get quality hardwood for $10-$12!

My plan is to upgrade the granite/quartz to what I want, get the upgraded sink, double oven and cooktop... the kitchen footprint will be exactly the same, so I want to reuse the granite. I'm moving here because of the community, and friends, and it's time we downsize...The home is built decent because of codes, but the finishes are much to be desired.
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msjam2
9 years ago
You could put the cabs in the garage for storage.
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Nothing Left to Say
9 years ago
I would have such a hard time with all of this from an environmental perspective. I don't know what I would do n
Amber
9 years ago
I would consider refacing. Get a layout and diensions and see what it would cost from Conestoga or someone else who does that. The idea of putting in cabs and granite then ripping it out sounds horrible. I'm not sure what you could do with the old face frame.. But at least you wouldn't be risking cracking your granite!!
New Freedom Nurse
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
We are thinking of doing the same thing. The cost to upgrade things is out of sight and unreasonable. The cabinets in our potential new home are not up to my standards and there is so much wasted space. There are two corners in the kitchen and they just blocked them off instead of using a lazy susan or a blind corner cabinets. They did this both in the uppers and lowers. We also would just have the laminate counters and vinyl flooring that is standard. The floorplan we like is 220 and with the upgrades we would like, which are nothing fancy, It is 257. I like the floor plan but not the finishes, and because of that, we are also considering a "used" home.
Melissa Johnson
9 years ago
I agree with crl. This would be a very tough decision. I thought the point of building your own home is to design it how YOU like? I had no idea until I joined these forums how awful home building could be. Makes me appreciate my "used" home all the more.
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mrspete
9 years ago
A friend of mine did something similar: She bought a condo, and they only offered carpet as the floor covering. She went round and round trying to figure out how to get hardwood floors installed -- in the end, it just wasn't going to happen. So she asked them to install the carpet but not stretch it thoroughly as they normally would've done -- and literally before she moved in, she had it removed and had hardwood installed. She donated it to Habitat for Humanity and got a good tax write-off, but it was a horrible waste.

In her case, it was the bank who was forcing her into this position. She was borrowing for the condo, and it had to be COMPLETE at closing. And she couldn't install anything different until it was officially her property. Again, a horrible waste.

Back to your cabinets. I don't think I could trash brand new cabinets. Just couldn't do it. If you really can't get around it, I'd live with it a while -- the white-white vs. creamy-white colors might not be as stark as you suspect once everything else is "in". And even cheap cabinets'll be nice for a while.
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tinker_2006
Original Author
9 years ago
This house will be nearly $600,000 + with the upgrades.. it would seem like we would be able to do what we wanted, but that's not how they roll.

Problem is.. if I get the standard cabinets, they are cheap, particle board boxes, if I get the upgrade, I will spend at the minimum of $9000 in order to get plywood box construction - and end up with cabinets I don't like and a basic, basic kitchen.. no oven hood, no panels on the island - nada!

4 years ago we restored our current house, and had beautiful, inset cabinets, custom hood, panels refrigerator and dishwasher made locally with an Amish company - all for about $10,000!! I'm sure that this kitchen, less cabinets and not doing anything really fancy will be less than the $22,000 (+) upgrades!

I have no problem donating the carpets or cabinets to any person or organization in need. It's cash - so I don't even have to worry about a lender.... My biggest worry is the granite.
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oasisowner
9 years ago
Do you have to actually let them install? It would be easier to just donate/sell cabinets, granite, and carpet before they actually put them in and you have the expense of ripping it all out.
sheloveslayouts
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
If you're financing this project, it probably has a lot to do with the bank requiring this stuff be installed. And the builder wants to get paid by the bank ASAP.

You might check with the "building a home" forum. I've read about people frustrated with this same situation over there.

Also, I wouldn't assume that custom in your new house is going to be $22,000. From what I've gathered in the forums, the cost of products and services has skyrocketed since 2011 as the economy has recovered.

ETA: I just caught the comment that you're paying cash. If you really really don't want these materials, I'd make them stack this stuff in the garage. I don't see how they can refuse to NOT install something. Perhaps because they want the permits closed?
Buehl
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Before you can settle, you have to have an occupancy permit - and you have to have a functioning kitchen to get the permit.

.

"...She donated it to Habitat for Humanity and got a good tax write-off, but it was a horrible waste..."

If it's donated to H4H, it's not a waste - someone is using them! They're not ending up in the dump. It is a waste of your money, but you do get some back via deductions on your taxes. But, if this is your forever home and you can afford it - I would do it!

If you're careful, you might also be able to salvage the countertop and maybe H4H would take that as well - a full kitchen (minus appliances)!
Amber
9 years ago
What about putting bare minimum in - can you reconfigure the kitchen? Put in a sink cabinet, two cabs around stove, etc? Then you won't feel quiet as bad? Or is floor plan non negotiable?
PRO
Taylor's Cabinets & Interiors
9 years ago
Find a builder that will actually build what you want.
dan1888
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
You're paying. You write up an offer with the terms you want and submit it. Subtract the items you aren't going to use from the price and make the offer. Cash is a strong bargaining chip. Talk is one thing. The possibility of losing your sale is another chip in your favor. Submit a written offer and let them consider their options.
Suzi AKA DesertDance So CA Zone 9b
9 years ago
I'm amazed that your DH is OK with this. I'd just use the cabinets. They are NEW! Nobody else s junk has ever been in them. I have to agree with Taylor's Cabinets. Find a builder that will build what you want. Walk away.
edenaurora
9 years ago
I'd live with the kitchen for a little bit to make sure the layout works for you before buying new cabinets. After the excitement of having our new build we realized the kitchen layout didn't work for us at all. Now we have a solid idea of the space and we are ripping it all out...five years later. I don't feel guilty at all about it.
chisue
9 years ago
Is this in a development? Will you be over-improving? (Maybe you don't care!)

I doubt an occupancy certificate depends on having cabinets. The building inspector needs to see that all the building codes have been followed and that you have heat, light, plumbing. I remember putting blank plates over some electrical boxes where we hadn't chosen fixtures yet. Our only sink already installed was the laundry sink.
tinker_2006
Original Author
9 years ago
Taylor's Cabinets & Interiors, all we ever had for the last 15 years is custom build homes, this is different.. it's a community of 1900 with ONE builder (one very rich builder). Our kids just build a nice home (not custom, but it's a nice $590m home- their 2nd home). We own a nice 5 acre lot we were going to build on but we WANT to live by them and in this community - so we are stuck with this builder, who by the way, has an A+ BBB rating, and people seem happy. I just returned from Home Depot to look at them again.. they are just not what I want. :(

Suzi... lol, he is fighting me a little.

Dan1888 - honestly, the builder is building about 40 homes in 4-5 counties. He has lots of people walk away because he doesn't open lots - but one at a time, once a month!

benjesbride, I'll be going to kitchen places in the next week or so to get prices. This is a small kitchen, 4 - 30" base cabinets, 1 - 36" cooktop base and the simple island with sink & dishwasher.
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tinker_2006
Original Author
9 years ago
chisue, I remember you from 2011! My user name changed but here's my kitchen going in from back then! http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2697368/sneek-peek-cabinets-being-installed?n=33
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Suzi AKA DesertDance So CA Zone 9b
9 years ago
Happy you recognized that there are two of you. He will fight. I recently asked my DH "are you a contrarian?" He thought, and decided yep, he is. But men look at the bottom line. Personally, I could live with brand new builder grade cabinets.

If you can't then you should back out and buy a lot and go completely custom.
User
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Will you have a laundry area? Maybe measure that out and get the kitchen cabs to magically fit in that area. No bells/whistles. We are replacing builder grade cabs and plan to redo the laundry with some of them. The island is going to young friends just starting out. The rest to H4H. No waste as in filling a landfill. Just an expense we are okay making.

Seems to me to get a CO, you don't need to have cabinets on the walls. Seems odd. Just have them delivered and left for future use. Same with carpeting. Just leave it in rolls on the subfloor.

Suzi -- LOL -- FYI -- I am female, make 3x what DH makes, and we share financial decisions equally. Females are capable of making sound decisions.
User
9 years ago
I wouldn't do it. As a retired builder, kitchens, in my mind, are a huge scam. That being said, if you're set on this house and that's the kitchen that comes with it, I'd take it, and live with it for a couple years so you can both build up a budget and to figure out exactly what you do and don't like.

But that's just my 2 cents.
Justine
9 years ago
I agree with buehl, put laminate tops in now. It will be much easier when you have the cabinets removed and replaced with your dream kitchen. I have a similar problem and I'm dreading seeing the granite taken out. I'm sure it has to be very messy. Laminate tops will be so much easier and I wish I'd have thought to do that. Good luck!
photoclick33
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I wouldn't want to settle for builder grade either. But I did just visit a store that takes high end kitchens out and resells them, and I would say that about 25% had the granite broken when they were being taken out. And these were people who's job was just to demo kitchens. Also would you mind sharing the name of the Amish cabinet makers that did your custom inset cabinets?
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beachem
9 years ago
You're not going to be able to reuse the granite. My insurance company went thru great lengths to protect my granite so that they don't have to replace it and it still got broken when they took the cabinets out. There were five guys slowly moving the cabinet out with levers to prop up the counter and still it broke.
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PRO
Taylor's Cabinets & Interiors
9 years ago
I've had pretty good success rate at removal and reusing stone/e-stone counters, so it is possible. It's also possible that you break the counters into many pieces. If you are want to reuse the counter, see if the installers will just silicone the seams instead of epoxy/polyester. That's always the hard part of removal, breaking the seams free cleanly. It's a case by case thing, with 100 different factors.

On the other side, you need an artist to reinstall. Not your regular drop it on and caulk it in guys.
12crumbles
9 years ago
I'm not clear on what is needed for a CO for you and whether a bank is involved and actually will do an inspection. If the cabs can be placed in your garage or similar protected space and left in their packaging, them I second the idea of omelet and nightowl. Pre-arrange pick up by H4H. Same for granite. Not sure where you live but I have read about companies in the greater NYC area that will buy - and remove - kitchen cabs. For carpeting I'd have the rolls delivered and picked up by H4H. No installation. I've read that it is quite pricey to have carpeting removed! If for some reason everything has to be installed, then Ichabod's idea of living with the arrangement for a short while to see what does and doesn't work sounds like a good idea. Lemonade from lemons.
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tinker_2006
Original Author
9 years ago
Thank you all for the feedback. I'll be working on getting a firm price for the EXACT same kitchen going in with custom cabinets, so I can accurately compare. their $22,000 upgraded charge. I than will get a price for the custom cab's, with the same layout, but quality. I HAVE to buy the granite, but I will insist that it NOT be installed and I'll install cheap laminate. I have already been to the flooring company and the price includes installation, so I already saved $12,000 on my floors and will get quality flooring that I love. Certainly not the ideal way to build a house.... but we love the community, desire to live there. There is no bank involved.... but why wait an live in a house that with finishes I don't like? I expect to be saving money going this route, not spending more... just the inconvenience of this is a pain, however, I much rather do it now than be living in it and having it done 2 -3 years from now.
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Russ Barnard
9 years ago
We picked up a brand new kitchen with cabinets and granite and a sink for under $200 from a couple that bought a house that the kitchen had been refinished before they bought it and never used, but they did not like it. We went in and took it all out and hauled it to the ranch for the hunting cabin.. fanciest kitchen out there with granite counters and all.. lol.

Russ
lam702
9 years ago
I am too practical myself to tear out a brand new kitchen and replace it, but that's just me. You will have to have some kind of working kitchen done before you can get the C.O. (certificate of occupancy) If you are stuck with the builders kitchen, you can either live with it for a while, or pick the basic option, without any upgrades, laminate counters, just to get the C.O. and then either sell or donate it , then replace with the kitchen you really want. But, of course, if DH is not in agreement on this, doesn't he get any say in his home as well? It would seem to me that something like this would be a joint decision. If he prefers to keep the builder kitchen, perhaps a compromise of living with it for a year or 2? Moving is enough of a hassle without adding a tear out and replace as soon as you move in, IMO.
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12crumbles
9 years ago
If you just need a "working" kitchen to get the CO, then why not just get a sink and cabinet from H4H and have it set in place and working? I think that is not uncommon in kitchen renos anyway where there are going to be delays. Plug in a refrigerator. Set up a surface, cabinet or whatever, and put an induction hot plate in place. And a Breville oven maybe. That's a functional kitchen. CO's don't differentiate between beautiful and ugly, just safe and functional. Have all outlets, etc up to code and finished. Vent hood in place if you can be pretty certain of location. If you aren't sure of the location, you will need to get a permit (later, when you real cabinets are installed) because you'll be going through walls/roof and wiring (although maybe the wiring can be done now if you know the general location, so you wouldn't need a later permit).

I'm thinking you actually have an almost ideal situation now. A big empty room with all wiring, plumbing and finish work done, just waiting for the cabinets you love to be installed.

Ripping out brand new, never used, builder grade kitchen... Crazy?

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