Geothermal vs. natural gas for our new home
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
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- 9 years ago
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Geothermal or Natural Gas for new construction in MD?
Comments (6)Despite some always saying geothermal will not pay I would suggest crunching the numbers and coming to your own conclusions. The fact remains that geothermal is currently being installed in virtually every part of the country, so others have come to a different conclusion that may be worth examining. For your situation, a $10k differential is not necessarily a big deal if you calculate that cost over the life of a mortgage, broken down to its monthly cost against the potential monthly energy savings. All the discussion seems to be related to the cost of heating as it relates to gas. However, I would imagine that Washington DC requires a lot of A/C. At a COP-4 with geothermal, that would cost at your rate 2.9-cents per kW of cooling (or heating) required, certainly less that any other active cooling method. Should you plan to remain in your home for 15 years or more, you will have to consider replacement cost of your gas furnace and A/C condenser at a time when a geothermal heat pump will only be at about 1/2 way through its life cycle. Will that replacement be $10k or more at a future time? Other variables to factor are tax breaks still on the table and quite attractive as well as increased resale value due to energy efficiency and green factor. IMO SR Here is a link that might be useful: International Ground Source Heat Pump Association...See MoreGeothermal: Electric or Natural Gas Backup
Comments (1)The answer to your question all depends on the comparative energy rates in your area. Your contractor may best answer this. Some things to keep in mind are that natural gas could be a very good choice for backup, particularly if you plan to install gas for other household applications (stove, dryer, fireplace, BBQ). Keep in mind that ground source heat pumps have no defrost cycle and the gas backup will only activate to assist the GSHP - not instead of the GSHP. So in all likelihood very little gas will be used, comparatively speaking. The geothermal heat pump can be used in conjunction with a gas instantaneous water heater such that the hot water generated by the desuperheater is stored in a buffer tank, which then feeds the gas instantaneous water heater. This way the gas instantaneous water heater only has to make up the difference in temperature between its set point and the output of the buffer tank (about 110ðF), again resulting in reduced usage of gas. If I were choosing this type of configuration, I would install a geothermal split heat pump coupled to a Carrier Infinity gas furnace, appropriately sized. You would of course require the Carrier NIM module to interface the geo unit to the Carrier Infinity system. SR...See MoreHelp - AC vs Heat Pump vs Geothermal in Oregon Log Home
Comments (6)Thanks Tigerdunes: Electricity use is as follows: First 1,000 kWh 6.778 â per kWh Over 1,000 kWh 7.500 â per kWh ( I use about 800 kwh without AC and 1300 Kwh with it) Propane: 2.69per gallon - usage in winter used to be approx 350-400 gallons per month! I agree that the mark ups for the Heat Pumps condensor are outrageous. The cheapest price I was quoted was $5310 for a Trane XB14 unit, or $5225 for RUUD. I started shopping in May, have had 4 contractors out here, and still see major issues with each contractor. The one I like the best is from Sky Heating, as he was the most thorough, and company got the best reviews. He had the lowest prices as well, but they are still about 3 times the wholesale cost. I have the money to pay for the more expensive systems, but I just can't find a good reason to do that. won't, on principle, as I feel they are purposefully marking them up. This kind of stuff happens to everyone, but seems to happen a bit more to single women ?!? (kind of a sexist comment, but I have noticed this to be true). Back to the subject at hand - I looked at QualitySmith.com for nationwide averages for installation on various Trane Heat Pumps - I compared it to the bids I received: Trane Installation costs (range nationwide) XR15:Install cost $4500-$10,000 (quote= $8100) XB14 Install cost = $3000-$7500 (qutoe was $5300) XB13 install cost =$2500-$6500 (quote was $6400) I noticed in another post that you were recommending a SEER 13 unit, but did not like the Trane XB13 (SEER 14-15) but not the Trane units. You specifically wrote that wrote that you would not get a Trane XB13. I was wondering if you liked any of the Trane models that I have listed? What Brands/models do you like that are SEER 13? Any suggestions for how to find a more competitive bid? I tried Bargaining with one contractor, and I could tell he was completely resistant to it- giving me less information each time I contacted him; strong arming me to come back and meet with me again, etc. Here are some other Brands I received bids for - they also seemed a bit high but are cheaper than others: : Carrier 25HBC5 Comfort - SEER 14.5 FOR $6289_ York YHJFLX series SEER 14.5 for $5869.00 RUUD 4 ton Achiever SEER 14.5 $5225 I would like to pay less than $5000 but that has not been possible. With 5000 Square foot home, and the logs not chinked, I don't envy the contractors for trying to decide what would work best. A two zone system is preferred in houses like this but the cost to retrofit is exorbitant. Desperately confused in Oregon! Thanks again...See MoreNatural Gas Forced Air or Geothermal for small new build?
Comments (6)You didnâÂÂt mention what you electrical rate is per kWh. You did mention some pretty magic words, âÂÂI will need a wellâÂÂ. Since youâÂÂll be drilling a well anyways, that opens the possibility of exploring an open loop geothermal heat pump system. Driller just has to make sure the well drilled can pump enough water for both domestic water supply AND geothermal. The well should be deep enough that if the water table drops due to drought or neighbors on the same aquifer that youâÂÂre deep enough to not run dry. The other issue is responsible discharge of âÂÂleaving loop waterâÂÂ. The best way would be back into the same aquifer at about 80 to 100 feet horizontally apart. The only âÂÂmodificationâ to the water is a change in water temperature of just a few degrees up or down depending on whether youâÂÂre heating or air-conditioning. ThatâÂÂs it - no other changes to water quality - so it can go back into the same aquifer! Open loop does require more maintenance than closed loop. Water quality would have to be tested for suitability but this sounds like it might be a relatively shallow well that would keep pumping cost low. Open loop also represents the possibility for the highest theoretical geothermal heat pump efficiencies (COP) possible. I would suggest separating all the HVAC, geothermal and well drilling from the general contract if you feel youâÂÂre up to the task. Hire properly accredited companies. I would also suggest that if you do go the geothermal route that you add to the contract a âÂÂCancellation DateâÂÂ, particularly with the drilling and ground loops. The last thing you want to hear after signing and waiting for a driller to appear is that, âÂÂThis is my busy season, IâÂÂll get to you as soon as I canâÂÂ! You could also consider natural gas for the geothermal backup, particularly if youâÂÂd be using it for other applications as well. It would however add additional installation costs, such as, gas line and venting but should be discussed and explored. IMO SR Here is a link that might be useful: International Ground Source Heat Pump Association at Oklahoma State University...See MoreRelated Professionals
Oak Grove Design-Build Firms · Plum Design-Build Firms · Centralia Home Builders · Grover Beach Home Builders · Ives Estates Home Builders · Troutdale Home Builders · Bay City General Contractors · Easley General Contractors · East Riverdale General Contractors · Enfield General Contractors · Mentor General Contractors · Mineral Wells General Contractors · Troy General Contractors · Uniondale General Contractors · Westerly General Contractors- 9 years ago
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