Ohhhh. CRAP...,!

Well, thank you for the input although the answer sure puts a crimp in my weekend/upcoming week.

Silly questions:.

I've only ever noticed the smaller bottles of round up.. The kind with a trigger on the hAndle. Is there a concentrate or larger-area Round Up I can use for an application like this? Say with a hose end sprayer or something like that?

Are there different kinds of Round up and would one be better than another for this project? Home Depot or box store pricing on par with online so far as you know?

I sure wish I knew about this site and asked this question a month ago...

Thanks MorpheusPA... I really appreciate the help. Just can't believe how badly I messed up

oh, and with regard to the straw... Matted rather nicely so I got that going for me, too. Yee Haw...! Would you take and compost or just round up and discard? I'm thinking the matted straw might prevent the round up from adequate absorption...?

On the up side, the straw shouldn't get in the way of the Round Up. The stuff works if it touches greenery and it actually deactivates very quickly upon contact with the ground. I'd leave it until the grass is dead, then just rake the matted areas. You don't need to get every straw, or bother with areas where the soil is visible through it.

Round Up sells a concentrate with a red cap (we actually call it Round Up Red Cap, although that's not the official name). http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roundup-32-oz-Concentrate-Weed-and-Grass-Killer-5005001/100094550

Pricing is pretty much identical once you factor in the waiting period and shipping costs.

While it took three of those to do my entire lawn, my lawn is 10,000 square feet. One should be sufficient for 2,500 square feet, although I'd buy a second just in case and return it if you don't need it.

Morpheus... Cut the grass very low a few minutes ago and notice enough little greenies in the soil to be "concerned" about. You mentioned to respray tomorrow, the 29th.Then throw down the new seed on Sunday the 30th?

Just want to confirm as that timing seems tight.

Picked up the replacement seed from Hogan... Those guys were very helpful and delivery was fast

Correct, and yes, the timing is tight to get this stuff in. You could certainly wait a bit on the seeding if you wish, although Round Up has no effect on seeds at all, and only kills plants when sprayed directly on the greenery. Once it touches soil, it deactivates almost instantly.

Ok then. Spray tomorrow, seed Sunday

Thanks again Morpheus

I asked this in the Compost section this morning... But maybe here would have been better since it pertains to this same thread:

Should I discard the dead grass from Roundup (red cap) or would it be ok to use in my compost pile?

They collect vegetative waste here in town but, if ok, I would prefer to keep/use it... but only if absolutely safe.

I hope to be able to top dress established lawn before winter fertilizing and this would be in the Compost used

Thank you

You just asked a question that's guaranteed to get any purist up in arms. They'll tell you that Round Up is instantly toxic to anything it touches and to discard it in toxic waste containers to a safe location. :-)

Well, not quite. Close, sometimes.

Round Up deactivates upon contact with soil, and the excess stuff long since washed off. There are certainly trace amounts in the dead material, but those become food for bacteria and eventually turn into a small amount of phosphorus for the soil.

Are there residuals (that won't kill plants but do show up in the vegetation)? Studies lean toward "yes." They're not shown to be dangerous, but I'd still avoid using the resulting compost on your vegetable garden just on general principles. Flowers, shrubs, trees (not fruit trees)? Awesome.

I regularly toss Round Up killed weeds from the garden into the compost bin.

Thank goodness... finally I get a break from my initial screwup.

I'm all out of hermetically sealed drums at the moment anyway

No...I can appreciate the concern and am as environmentally conscious as the next guy but, since it won't hurt, better off in my compost than the town's. Let them use/waste my tax dollars on something else. Besides, a vegetable garden is another year away... long after this stuff is applied

Thanks as always Morpheus

Now, back to the task at hand.

My first attempt at posting pictures... hope it works.

Here're a couple shots of the area. I was going to rent a roller after seeding.

Am I wastng my time/money? If no roller, just step it in to "secure"?

And just leave it uncovered until germination, correct? I don't have enough compost and have no desire to throw down peat moss - UNLESS, it will be hugely advantageous

I know this has been discussed but now I'm gun-shy of doing anything without double checking. Sorry for the repetition

>>Thank goodness... finally I get a break from my initial screwup.

Would you like to hear about my first lawn? And, to a lesser extent, my second? Don't beat yourself up, it was a pretty minor error.

>>Here're a couple shots of the area. I was going to rent a roller after seeding.

That is a gorgeous, perfect seed bed. The soil disturbance might cause some issues with weeds, but nothing that can't be corrected later.

>>Am I wastng my time/money? If no roller, just step it in to "secure"?

The roller is an excellent insurance policy to assure seed/soil contact.

I didn't use one. It went fine. Most people who use a roller (quite cheap to rent and easy to use) feel better for doing so and probably do get slightly better germination rates.

>>And just leave it uncovered until germination, correct? I don't have enough compost and have no desire to throw down peat moss - UNLESS, it will be hugely advantageous

If you can water 3x daily (2x absolute minimum), leaving the seed uncovered is not a problem. If you have an area where the sun pounds the soil and that tends to stay dry, you might want to spend your limited compost for a thin layer of coverage in that section.

In my case, that was the southwestern edge of the property, which tilts into afternoon sun and is perpetually the first area that wilts. I could have gotten away with just covering that--and even if I didn't, I'd get grass. Just thinner grass that has to develop in more.

>>I know this has been discussed but now I'm gun-shy of doing anything without double checking. Sorry for the repetition

There's no need to apologize! Better safe than sorry, and we don't mind answering questions again when reassurance is required.

I had a second thought. Using a starter fertiilzer with Tupersan in it will help suppress out weed sprout (without harming your grass seed in the slightest). Apply at the same time as the seed.

Tenacity at the pre-emergent rate (about 0.6 tsp/1000 square feet in at least a gallon of water) would also help if you'd rather use that instead. But a bottle of Tenacity is...more expensive.

Either gives about a month of protection against some types of weeds, which will get you through the sprouting period. Suppression rates vary, but usually sit between 70-90%.

Excellent... Less expensive is better

Can I throw that on after seeding/rolling? Probably not but I'm just back from renting the roller and ready to rock. And Home Depot at 1 pm on a Sunday is seldom fun

Might be a moot point, though, as I'm all set with the seed and over now realize that the shipment didn't provide a reminder if application rates for a newly seed area. I'm thinking 3-5 per 1,000 but can't recall and the web site (Hogan) doesn't provide it for these mixes.

Now this is asking a lot but would you go with the upwards of 5 lbs per 1,000 or wait until tomorrow?

(If I felt foolish before,..!)

And, would your spread by hand or use a rotary spreader?. I spread by hand the last time but could very well have wasted some seed or, at the very least, I'm sure my throwing was inconsistent

Thank you

>>Excellent... Less expensive is better

Can I throw that on after seeding/rolling? Probably not but I'm just back from renting the roller and ready to rock. And Home Depot at 1 pm on a Sunday is seldom fun

Absolutely! The only you don't want to do is tramp around on a seed bed when the seeds are dropping embryonic roots. You have a two day window, but I'd advise dropping it before watering to avoid muddy shoes and picking up seeds in that mud.

>>Might be a moot point, though, as I'm all set with the seed and over now realize that the shipment didn't provide a reminder if application rates for a newly seed area. I'm thinking 3-5 per 1,000 but can't recall and the web site (Hogan) doesn't provide it for these mixes.

The top is 80% turf type fescue, 10% red fescue, 10% KBG, so the seeding rate is:

Fescue: 6 to 10 pounds per thousand on new lawns.

Red Fescue: 4 pounds per thousand on new lawns.

KBG: 1 to 3 pounds per thousand on new lawns.

Shoot for the middle, so 0.8*8+0.1*4+0.1*2 = 6.4+0.4+0.2 = 7.0 pounds per thousand square feet.

The bottom seed differs, it's 65% fescue, 25% red fescue, 10% KBG. Or 0.75*8+0.25*4 = 6+1 = 7.0 pounds per thousand.

Edit: Mistake corrected, there's no KBG in the second bag.

If you applied these at anything from 5 to 8, you'll get a nice lawn. 6.5-7.0 pounds per thousand is optimal.

Lower levels of application will more rapidly get dominated by the Kentucky bluegrass in appropriate areas.

>>Now this is asking a lot but would you go with the upwards of 5 lbs per 1,000 or wait until tomorrow?

Today is great if you can, but of course if you'd rather wait until tomorrow then one day's difference is not significant. If it were me, I'd shoot for 6 to 7 pounds per thousand square feet.

I'd also try to have a pound or three left over at the end. You're probably going to get spots that don't come in perfectly and want to dormant seed or later-fall seed just to get coverage.

>>And, would your spread by hand or use a rotary spreader?. I spread by hand the last time but could very well have wasted some seed or, at the very least, I'm sure my throwing was inconsistent

Rotary, by preference, for consistency of throw. And I have no idea of the setting. I'd set it very low and criss-cross the area to assure even application.

If you have really steady hands, hand application can be done, though!

Can't thank you enough Morpheus... You've been a tremendous help!!!

Thanks, and no problem!

In about 7 to 14 days you're going to panic. Almost everybody does.

Check back in and we'll talk you off the roof.

LOL... Will do

Just a quick update:

I suppose this weather in northern NJ is really helping me out... warm, sunny days and cool nights.

I seeded Sunday and have been watering 4 times daily: 9:30, 12, 2:45 & 4:45 for about 3 minutes each. A nice misting - enough to keep the soil dark.

Wednesday morning I noticed a few blades popping up... Just a few scattered throughout. Didn't want to get my hopes up.

Yesterday, quite a few more.

This morning, no question that the seeds are popping. Still scattered but looking like a crew-cut from the 50's.

A few leaves have fallen on spots (very dry here) so I can expect some scattered bare spots but I'm not complaining.

Feeling very fortunate. Will snap a pic once a little more length can be seen.

Once again, thank you all for your input and help

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congratulations!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes, we always love photos of baby lawns!

Hello all... Back after being out of town for a spell,. Had the sprinklers going on the newly seeded areas but, apparently, around 09/09 or 09/10, we were hammered by a very violent storm that dropped a lot of water.

Before I left town, the seed was coming up fairly nicely and filing in the area.

Now I see that the rain must have really done some damage... Plenty of bare spots where there were none before.

Wishful thinking to think that the seed may still sprout?

Also, for the seed that has popped, some of it is getting on the longer side.

Were it not new, I'd cut it, but question whether it's too soon? A solid 3" plus for those areas that "survived".

What a bummer to come home to...

Thank you

Cutting at 3" is fine. Your goal, this first time, is to take off a minimal amount of length, so I'd cut at 2.5" or taller.

>>Wishful thinking to think that the seed may still sprout?

Unfortunately, yes. It's still early enough to overseed those areas again. Weather in our area is holding rather warm for late September, and looks to stay that way for the next three weeks at least.

I'd reseed the spots. It's been warm and 10 day forecast is 80-90% chance we will be above normal temp for mid-Atlantic and northeast. I reseeded my worst bare spot this past weekend. Worst case scenario? I do it against next fall with a thin spot. Better than the weeds I had!

NewToLawnCare: Or you could dormant seed those spots over the winter and have them fill in during very early spring.

@morpheuspa I was reading your posts here (historical) about that. It's been intriguing me, but I'm not sure about Pre-M. I bought Tenacity to use as Pre-M in the spring, figured it will be less harmful than Scott's Halts (me guessing ?) on the new lawn from the fall. If I dormant seed, then spray tenacity when forsythia bloom, or prior, before dormant seed sprouts, I guess that might work? I'd like to have barrier down in spring on the new backyard lawn if safe for new grass planted in the fall.

I'll save the cheaper Halts for front and side lawn in the spring of 2016 and renovate that area next fall. At least, that is the plan.

Tenacity would do some damage on younger sprouts, but fortunately it won't go down until the forsythia bloom. With Tenacity, you can even go somewhat late. Everything it'll control as a pre-emergent it'll also kill as a post-emergent. It's pretty flexible stuff.

I'd use the Tenacity, accept the damage, and finalize the seeding in fall if necessary. With KBG, it probably won't be necessary.