Just for clarification in your discussion... A core charge on certain automobile parts is a deposit that is paid up front. It is a recycling incentive mandated by many state legislatures, is only charged on replacement parts, and is returned when a part is exchanged.

If a battery on a car goes bad, and a new one is bought, a deposit fee for that new battery is charged to the customer. If the old one is not exchanged with the new one, the deposit for the new battery will be returned after it goes bad.

This is much different than the policy being discussed here. The core charges on automobile parts are to encourage recycling. They are reasonable... approx. $20 on a battery; $15 on an alternator.

The fee being charged by Apple is not a state-mandated deposit. It is not placed to encourage recycling. It is a charge that allows Apple, and 3rd party manufactures, to save money and/or recoup a cost.

Further, the personal details that are stored on a computer make this a completely different circumstance from a hunk of semi-precious (copper,) or dangerous (lead) metal taken off a car.

This is nothing but a blatant attempt to pass costs on to the consumer. The sale of refurbished parts should have no bearing on replacement costs. There is no rational for the charge except, perhaps, as a refund. However, that refund should be reasonable... $50 is far too much.

If there is any reason for a policy mandating a fee for the customer not making the return, it should be either as a reasonable refund, or because, in the case of a warranty issue, the company wants to make sure the part is truly defective.

Oh, in case you want to try a short cut... no it is not 100% effective to use a common magnet to destroy data. If the drive cannot be wiped using the many software tools available (many for free,) aside from a hard drive shredder, a hammer is your best option.

I'm curious though... will they except a hammered or shredded hard drive and not charge the fee?

My first PC was a Compaq after that it has been HP. I have never ever had bad treatment from HP, never. When I had a problem with an out of warranty computer they charged me $79 dollar for a one year extended warranty and fixed it for me. If they had not been able to fix it I would have had a replacement of equal value. I do not put anything on my PC that I wouldn't mind others seeing. It is not safe to do that.

emma, that might be you, but you are in a huge minority. Most people do banking online, have their investments online, among other sensitive info. that requires passwords, which are on your hard drive, to access. It is ridiculous to suggest that people should buy computers with all these apps, banking, etc., and then not use them just because companies like Apple have a completely reckless, irrational, and unjustifiable policy.

Lindsey, my OP is very clear. I even wrote, "W/R/T" the OLD hard drive.

No, the $50 was not the labor charge. I told you, the $50 was the charge if I wanted to keep my old hard drive.

Whether something is under warranty or not is irrelevant to this issue.

If Apple says, "The new hard drive and labor to install is $137, so if you want to keep your old hard drive, the total is $190..." No, the $50 is clearly a charge to keep one's old hard drive, and I made that very clear.

Your comments make absolutely no sense. Did it occur to me that if Apple didn't return the old drive to me, I shouldn't have been charged labor to install the new one??? WHAT??!

No, that never occurred to me because, as I said many times TO YOU, I fully expected to pay for the new hard drive and labor, and that is in fact what I was quoted and the $50 charge was for being allowed to keep my old hard drive.

The charge for the new hard drive and labor to install it was never an issue for me, so why would I give you that detail? I made it very clear the $50 charge was for keeping one's hard drive.

Seems to me, Lindsey, you're the one with the comprehension problem here. Everyone else understood what I was saying.

This is page one of the contract one agrees to when purchasing the product or service. Looks like contracts are meaningless to a lot of "consumers" here if they happen to not like them. It's pretty much the same contract as all computer manufacturers have.

Repair Terms and Conditions
IMPORTANT: THESE REPAIR TERMS AND CONDITIONS (“AGREEMENT”) CONSTITUTE YOUR
AGREEMENT WITH APPLE (AS IT IS DESCRIBED IN THE COUNTRY VARIATION SECTION, BELOW)
AND WILL APPLY TO YOUR ORDER IF THE SERVICE IS OUTSIDE THE TERMS OF APPLE’S LIMITED
WARRANTY, AN APPLE ADMINISTERED EXTENDED SERVICE CONTRACT OR YOUR STATUTORY
CONSUMER RIGHTS. FOR CONSUMERS WHO ARE COVERED BY CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS
OR REGULATIONS IN THEIR COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE, THE BENEFITS CONFERRED BY THIS
AGREEMENT ARE IN ADDITION TO ALL RIGHTS AND REMEDIES CONVEYED BY SUCH CONSUMER
PROTECTION LAWS AND REGULATIONS AND YOU SHOULD CONSULT THE CITIZENS ADVICE
SERVICE IN YOUR COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE FOR FURTHER INFORMATION ON THESE RIGHTS.
1. Services and Products.
1.1 Services. For service orders, Apple will service your Apple product as described to
you for the estimated charges stated, unless such charges are revised with your
prior oral or written consent. Unless otherwise stated, Apple will provide repair or
replacement services to address a defect in the materials or workmanship of a
product. Service is not available for issues caused by failure of or incompatibilities
with any software or data residing or recorded on your product.
1.2 Parts and Labor. Apple may provide both parts and labor, but may direct that you
replace certain readily installable parts yourself, as described below. In servicing
your product, Apple may use parts or products that are new or refurbished and
equivalent to new in performance and reliability. Apple will retain the replaced part
or product that is exchanged during service as its property, and the replacement
part or product will become your property. Replaced parts and products are
generally repairable and are exchanged or repaired by Apple for value. If applicable
law requires Apple to return a replaced item to you, you agree to pay Apple the
retail cost of the replacement item and shipping.
1.3 Service Options. Apple may facilitate service through one or more of the following
options:
1.3.1 Do-It-Yourself (DIY) Parts Service. DIY Parts Service allows you to service
your own product. If Apple determines that DIY Parts Service is available
to you, Apple will ship to you a replacement part for your Apple product.
The replacement part will be accompanied by instructions on installation
and any requirements for the return of the replaced part. For DIY Parts
Service requiring the return of the replaced part, you must provide credit
card details to secure the return of the replaced part. All replaced parts
requiring return, must be returned to Apple within ten (10) days from the
date Apple ships the replacement part to you (“Return Period”). If (i) you
fail to return the replaced part as instructed within the Return Period, or
(ii) the replaced part is not eligible for service due to a Service Exclusion,
as described below, you will pay the amount agreed by you at the time
service was ordered. If Apple does not require the return of a replaced
part, Apple will ship to you a replacement part or product accompanied
by instructions on installation and any requirements for the disposal of
the replaced item. Apple is not responsible for any labor costs relating to
DIY Parts Service.
1.3.2 Direct Mail-In Service. If Apple determines that your product is eligible
for Direct Mail-In Service, you will ship your product to Apple’s repair
service location in accordance with Apple’s instructions. Apple may
provide prepaid way bills (and if you no longer have the original
packaging, Apple may send you packaging material). If Apple does not
provide prepaid way bills or packaging, you must arrange for the shipping
and packaging of your product to Apple’s repair service location, as
described at the time of ordering, and you may want to consider insuring

Lol... This thread seemed, to me, about the rightness or wrongness of the policy. Writing such a policy into a contract does not infer morality - it simply codifies the charge to the consumer. Yep, when dealing with the unscrupulous, remember... caveat emptor.

Personally, because of distaste for Apple's business model, I have not yet, nor do I ever wish to purchase an Apple product.

It is amazing what people become accustomed to accepting as a matter of course when no option seems to be offered. Build strong human networks and trade services! Do your best to not accept being treated without dignity!

Tib -

I get where you are coming from. I had a similar experience with Apple but was handled much better. I had an iPhone with a cracked screen, which was covered under the Apple Care+ warranty they offer. I assumed incorrectly that I would leave my phone with them, they would replace the glass and I could go on my merry way. But what Apple wanted to do instead was just "switch out" my old phone for a new one. I, too, did not want my old phone and all of the information stored on it to just be turned over to who-knows-who. The phone still operated and the screen could be read; it was just cracked. So, the Apple Genius showed me how to completely erase the phone before handing it in. I felt much better leaving it. I wish they could have done something similar for you. It seems to me Apple would want to ensure they were erasing drives/phones/etc right before customers' eyes to avoid the liability attached to one of their employees using the information on the device unlawfully.

I know that a warranty is nothing more than a contract and that most of them say you have to leave the broken part with the manufacturer in order to receive a replacement part. I am completely fine with that, provided the information on that part is wiped clean. I don't think that's too much of an ask given how we all use electronic devices these days.

That said, I can think of no justifiable reason for wanting to keep the drive when performing a non-warranty repair. If you are paying full price for parts and labor for the work, you absolutely should be entitled to the return of the broken part (barring circumstances where the part contains a hazardous material that the manufacturer must dispose of in lawful ways.) There was no reason for the fee in the circumstances you described. Had it been a warranty repair and you wanted to keep the old part, maybe the $50 fee is justified. But that yours was not a warranty repair entitles you to keep the old part free of charge, in my mind.

You don't have to be sassy Tibbrix...if your mechanic doesn't charge you for a core part that can be refurbished he's included it in the price however the concept is the same. Secondly, since my IT/Network guy is my DH or SIL both of whom are engineer level and worked in the industry for years loosing my privacy to them is not an issue I concern myself with, even so, I do not keep anything that I don't want anyone else seeing, ie passwords, personal id or pictures on my computer period! We don't do social networds or use our computers on a non secure network in public. We also have a strong firewall, and corporate level security on our network. It's just not safe, store your data on a stick drive and then you don't have to worry about who is on your computer. It's an easy solution to what you seem to think is a complicated problem. It would appear you just don't want to admit that others may have a point and/or you could even be wrong! It's one thing to be stubborn but another to be.....

I personally think Tibbrix has a good point.

But more important, what is going on here? Why the vituperation? We've all known each other for years. It's OK to have a different point of view, a completely opposite point of view, but let's be kind to one another.

Lucille, it is because there is right and there is wrong. A contract is a contract and if one doesn't like it they should not sign it. It is unethical to get something for nothing and then encourage others to do the same. It's like stealing grapes. One or two doesn't matter until the everyone starts doing it and then honest people pay the price when the costs go up.

People tried to explain the why it works the way it does but some don't want to hear it. They want to go on feelings rather than rational thought. Well my "feelings" are that there is right and there is wrong and I will always stand on what I believe is right.

Lukki, i was not being sassy at all.

The concept of the car parts is not the same at all. Again, your car parts are not full of sensitive information. If there is a charge for the part I want to keep included in the repair of the car, that is news to me. Apple made very clear to me that the $50 charge was specifically to keep a part I already bought from Apple, owned, and was fully of personal information.

As for your firewall and all of that, yes, we all have taken precautions from people hacking into our computers. That is not the issue here. The issue is handing your hard drive with all of your info. on it, over to strangers at Apple. Anyone who does that is dumb. Your firewall, etc., has nothing to do with the info. that is on your hard drive.

The only way to get that stuff off you hard drive is to wipe it clean, and if your computer needs a repair, I really doubt you wipe the hard drive before you take your computer in for a repair.

Atomicjay, agree. If Apple is going to keep people's hard drives, they should be wiping them clean in front of the customer, and showing them it is clear of their info. But when I asked the Apple employee specifically about that, the answer I got was that Apple employees are very trustworthy. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. In addition, I wanted my old hard drive so that I could take it to my independent Mac guy at home and have him transfer info. for me that I didn't have backed up and need on the new hard drive.

I honestly do not see what a warranty has to do with anything here. When a person buys a computer, they own that computer and all of its parts. End of story, as far as I'm concerned. This, to me, is like if I were to charge my clients a day rate for taking care of their dogs when they travel, and then charging them a fee to buy their dogs back when they get home or Ill put the dog up for adoption or keep it myself.

IT's just bizarre. I cannot believe how many people out there are apparently stupid enough to hand their hard drives over to Apple...or are willing to rebut a part they already overpaid Apple for.

you're so wrapped up in your thoughts its impossible to reason with you. My point is you do what is needed to protect yourself before your hard drive breaks. You don't keep sensitive data on a hard drive period. Then no one from hackers to a repair person will have the ability to access it. Auto parts was nothing more than analogy to show the process is common practice, not just with computers. That practice is for most things that can be refurbished. Lots' of people here who work in the industry have been trying to explain it to you but you refuse to see beyond your perspective. The solution is use a stick drive to store your private information on so you'll never be subject to what you are experiencing now. Learn the lesson and move on.

Tibbrix now claims, "Lindsey, my OP is very clear. I even wrote, 'W/R/T' the OLD hard drive."

Your original post reads in its entirety:

"Speaking of data never really being secure...A dog pulled my computer off a coffee table the other day, killing the hard drive. I took my Mac to Apple to be repaired. I was shocked when I was told that, regarding the old hard drive, my choices were to hand it over to Apple so its engineers can do whatever it is they do for future enhancements, OR I can pay Apple $50 to keep the hard drive that I bought in the first place, when I bought the computer, and has all of my passwords, banking info., etc., on it!

"Of course I told the guy that neither was an acceptable choice and that I would not agree to either. When I asked him how it can be that Apple expects people to turn their hard drive, with all their personal info. on them, over to Apple the answer was - I kid you not - 'Apple hires very trustworthy people.'

"Fortunately, I kept at it, and eventually a supervisor "waived" the $50 fee for keeping a hard drive I already owned and which has my info. on it, but I cannot believe this is a policy of Apple's, and I can't believe anyone is stupid enough to hand a hard drive with all their passwords, personal info., etc., on it over to the mystery people behind the silver wall! I also can't believe anyone would pay $50 to keep something that they already bought from Apple!

"Be aware of this. I really doubt it would survive a court challenge. At the very least, it is outrageous of Apple to expect people to hand over info.-filled hard drives OR pay Apple to keep their own hard drive. That's more like a shake down: Give us your info., or pay us to keep it yourself.

"Not to mention that I need it to transfer info. from it onto the new drive. I'm supposed to pay Apple so I can do that? "

So, exactly where did you say "'W/R/T' the OLD hard drive." ???

No, Lukki. Backing up information (I think you mean a flash drive) is not the same thing as wiping your hard drive. It is utterly unreasonable to suggest that no one should use their computers for banking, investments, all kinds of information, passwords, etc..

"you're so wrapped up in your thoughts its impossible to reason with you. "

And you accused ME of being sassy????

Explain for me why your being obstinate about your position is somehow different from me being obstinate about mine. Again, your car analogy is not a good one, and others here have explained why besides myself. Frankly, I completely disagree that mechanics charge their customers if the customer wishes to keep a car part. I've certainly never had that happen. And again, if my mechanic wants my old car part to refurbish or study, what do I care? He can have it. It's not full of private information. So again, that analogy is terrible. I also said that, if Apple had offered to back my info. up on a Flash drive for me, then wipe the hard drive clean, show me it was clean, I would have gladly given them the old hard drive.

I don't see any reasonable argument, which you call me not listening reason, as far as handing a hard drive over to strangers with passwords, etc., on it. There is no reasonable argument for doing that. It is just a stupid thing to do.

Conversely, it is not at all unreasonable for people to be angry to be told that ,if they want to keep what is their own property, which they've already bought from that same company, they have to basically buy it again.

Yes, Lukki, to me that is not reasonable.

And btw, when I took my computer in to be repaired, I did not know what was broken, did not know I would need a new hard drive, and even if I did, I had no way of wiping the drive before taking it in. I do have a flash drive.

Lindsey, this is from the OP:

"I was shocked when I was told that, regarding the old hard drive, my choices were to hand it over to Apple so its engineers can do whatever it is they do for future enhancements, OR I can pay Apple $50 to keep the hard drive that I bought in the first place..."

Very clear what I was talking about.

So, exactly where did you say "'W/R/T' the OLD hard drive." ???

Here: "I was shocked when I was told that, regarding the old hard drive,"

How silly of me. I didn't know that W/R/T is shorthand for "regarding."

Yes, "with regard to" and "regarding" mean the same thing.

Doesn't matter anyway. In the OP, which is the comment that is what you were getting your info. from, I said, "regarding the old hard drive"...the w/r/t is not relevant. THAT is the info. you had, not w/r/t.

Oh please, you're just being silly now. Everyone knows the difference between wiping out a hard drive and using a stick and yes as in a flash drive, that inexpensive little "stick" you pop into the usb port of your computer so you can save all your private documents on it. And if you push that little tab to the other side, it will even make it so the data can't be mistakingly erased!

.

Something I'm trying to suggest you do in the future so you won't have this problem again. Don't like my auto analogy, ok, so what? I tried to help you with a way to better understand and you don't appreciate it. Whatever, I don't care, maybe it will help someone else later. At this point, it seems the only thing you want is for someone to agree with you but from the posts written already I don't believe anyone who understands is going to do that.

Also, for what it's worth, no one can see your passwords when you're accessing websites for banking or investing; unless of course you choose to allow the site to remember your login or password (as in a cookies). Which no one should do anyways, and can easily be changed (if you have) by simply clearing the cache. As precaution, that should be done often (as in weekly).

Obviously, you've not taken the precautions that you should have to protect your information, that's your mistake, but don't blame it on Apple, they did after all, agree to erase the drive in front of you and that too wasn't good enough. You can disagree all you want, but it doesn't seem like you really understand what you are disagreeing to nor do you want to, so I'm bowing out. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him/her drink.

OMG. Lukki, the issue is not backing up info. The issue is handing a hard drive over to total strangers with your info. on it.

If you choose to do that, fine. I don't recommend it. Your having backed up stuff on a flash drive has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. I have a flash drive. A flash drive COPIES selected info. that is on your hard drive and elsewhere. It does not ERASE info.

I dont' blame Apple for my copying or not copying info. onto a flash drive. I blame Apple for having a bad policy of coercing people to give them back property they already own, their hard drives, which have all their passwords, etc., on them, or PAYING Apple to keep their own property which they already bought from Apple.

You're the one not understanding this, lukki.

As I said, had Apple said they would wipe my hard drive clean, and show me it was clean, I'd have gladly handed the old hard drive over to them. What do I care? But no, I am not going to go out and purchase hard drive erasing equipment on the off chance I will have to have a hard drive replaced because Apple has the gall to ask people to hand over hard drives with a "Trust us" attitude.

That the alternative to handing over a hard drive full of your passwords and other sensitive info. is to buy back something you already bought from Apple is absurd.

Again, if you have no problem purchasing the same item twice, that is certainly your prerogative, but I think most people would balk at having to do so. Paying to keep your own property?? Weird.

So let me ask you this, when you take your computer in for a repair, do you really go out, get the equipment to wipe your hard drive, or hire someone to do it, before taking it in??? I am not talking about a flash drive and backing up information in case it's lost in the repair. I'm talking about ERASING your hard drive. That is what you're not getting. You're confusing a flash drive with erasing a hard drive.

And you are doing so in order to justify a ridiculous policy. Apple should know better, and be more responsible, than to expect people to hand their hard drives over to them. Again, if Apple has this policy, they should wipe the drive clean, in front of the customer, show the customer the drive is empty of all personal info., and then keep the hard drive.

Separately from that, to expect customers to pay for something they already bought from Apple is, as I said, absurd. But hey, you don't mind paying twice for a hard drive, including a broken one, have at it, Lukki. Most people would say no if they were really conscious of this policy.

Btw, it's not that I don't like your car analogy. It's that it's not a good analogy, and that has been explained for you by not only me but by others. The irony here being that you criticize someone for doing exactly what you are doing, ignoring arguments you don't like.

You think handing a brake part over to a mechanic is the same as handing your file cabinet with all of your private sensitive info. in there over to total strangers is the same thing????

It isn't.

As for "blaming Apple for..." Yes, it is Apple's bad policy; Apple came up with it; Apple is 100% responsible for that policy. Ergo, Apple is 100% to blame for imposing a dangerous, reckless policy on its customers and offering as an alternative also a loss to its customers ($50 charge to keep something they already own/bought from Apple).

I'm telling you, that policy would not withstand a legal challenge.

And you were forced to buy an Apple computer rather than a computer from another company that doesn't have the same policy???

No, not at all. I wasn't complaining about buying an Apple, or being forced to do so. I was addressing being forced, by Apple, to make a bad and unreasonable choice regarding hard drive repairs.

Sheesh, lindsey, learn to read. It's a very helpful skill.

Anyhoo, I'm not going to apologize for bringing this terrible policy to the attention of other people. You are welcome to hand over you hard drive with all your passwords, banking info., etc., to total strangers OR buy it a second time if you prefer to not hand your passwords and other sensitive info. to strangers.

Meanwhile, I'll stay here in the sane world, where bad policy is called out, people know it's stupid to hand hard drives over to strangers, and it's unethical to charge people to keep their own property.

Apple: Now, even though you're way overpaying us to buy this computer, do keep in mind that you don't actually own it or its parts, because if a part breaks and you want to keep it, we're going to charge you AGAIN for it. your other option is to give us your hard drive with all your info. on it, and you can trust us.

Lindsey, Lukki and watchmelol: Awesome! Here's the key to my house too! No, wait, I'll pay you to let me keep the key to my house!

Tibbrix stands on the side, watching this, scratching her head.

"Lindsey_CA

And you were forced to buy an Apple computer rather than a computer from another company that doesn't have the same policy???"

Btw, Lindsey, I wonder if you see the irony of your comment here.

Also, what's with the hostility??? All I did here was try to make people aware of this policy, which is what you've been shrieking at me for not being myself.

So which is it? you want people aware or you don't? You make no sense at all. Just seem kind of...peevish and antagonistic for no good reason. Defending Apple! ROFL! Poor Apple, someone is being mean to it and saying it's policy is bad.

You seem t have a lot of anxiety over this.

You got what you wanted from Apple.
You posted it expecting kudos from all.

Many who don't know how the tech market works supported you.

A few tried to explain it to you and others. Several took time to share good info with you. Like so many in our world today when you didn't like what you heard you chose to disregard it.

You seem to be very defensive about an issue that you felt you "won". I suggest a nice cup of tea and that you take a breath. You are spending way too much time fretting over this. You don't understand, don't want to understand and yet are still upset that people who do understand don't come over to your side. When they come back to point out your fallacies you attack them as being hostile.

"You posted it expecting kudos from all."

Oh. I thought I was posting it to make people aware of this. Thank you for correcting me on my motives, watchmelol.

"You seem to be very defensive about an issue that you felt you "won"."

What??!!! Stop telling me how I feel and what my motives were. Cripes. Where did I say anything braggadocio about "winning"?? Where is that coming from? I didn't "win" anything. I succeeded in not being subjected to what I consider to be a reckless, unethical, and bad policy, and I didn't only think about myself and let it go but came here to let others know about this policy. Then you all holler and blame me for not having known about it..but when someone makes others aware of it, that person is just crowing or feels like they won...

Ridiculous and irrational argument.

"How DARE you not know about the pollicy, Tibbrix! It's your fault! How DARE you inform others of it so the know about it! You're just bragging!"

Huh?

"I suggest a nice cup of tea and that you take a breath."

Do ya, now? I'll take it under advisement. Your concern is touching.

"You are spending way too much time fretting over this."

Must be different when you comment on this thread.

"You don't understand" - True

"don't want to understand" - False. I just haven't been given a reasonable explanation. I would LOVE to understand a computer company expecting people to hand sensitive information over to them...or charging customers for something they already bought because the company is worried about some infringement. Seems to me the company should buy the part back if they're worried.

"and yet are still upset that people who do understand don't come over to your side."

while you, et al, seem perfectly civil and content that I haven't come "over to your side". Lol. I'll give you a little tip about myself: I have a dislike of people believing that, when THEY do the same thing as another they're criticizing of that thing, it's somehow different.

"When they come back to point out your fallacies you attack them as being hostile."

No, wrong. That is not what I was referring to when I noted that Lindsey was being hostile. I was referring to the smug and snide, "And you were forced to by an Apple..." comment, NOT some alleged fallacy in my argument.

Btw, what fallacy? That it's insane to turn hard drives over to strangers? Or that a flash drive does not erase a hard drive but only backs it up? Or that buying the same part twice from a company seems kind of..oh, what's the word..WRONG?

Look, watchmelol, I'll say the same thing to you I said to Lindsey and Lukki, you tech industry experts: You want to hand your hard drive with all your financial info., passwords, etc., on it over to strangers, I would suggest you not do that, but you think I'm insane and that it's a fallacy to be concerned about that, so go ahead. YOU WANT to. So do it. I didn't want to, so I didn't.

OR, you want to pay twice for property you already own, again, go for it. I won't stop you. I didn't want to.

Tibbrix forgot to take her meds again.

For some ignorance is bliss until they have to deal in the real world. It is what it is.

No, no, watchmelol You've taught me a valuable lesson. I'm a dog sitter, and from now on, I am going to charge not only the daily rate for caring for the dogs, but I am going to charge my clients a fee for getting their dogs back, and I have many keys to their homes, and if they ever want the keys to their houses back, I will charge them $50 to give them the key to THEIR houses. Hey, you know, I also rent my house out to vacationers. I think I'll impose a $100 charge if people want to take their property home with them, from my house, when they leave.

You know, you and Apple might be on to something here.

Oh, Lindsey, can't you come up with something a tad more original and clever?

And watchmen, what WAS I thinking when I accused Lindsey of hostility! Lol.

"off her meds..." Oh brother.

Ha!!! Is that what it is?? I was wondering.. LMAO.

TibbrIx, You paid for a hard drive, it broke. Pay the 50.00 to get a new one and let a dead horse lay. If it's out of warranty, you should have to pay something, whether it's for the new hard drive or the right to keep the old. The way it seems now is that you are basically saying you want a new hard drive at zero cost and it's Apple's fault for sticking to their policy and refusing to appease you. Seriously? Good luck with that!

Whether you like it or not this is not just an Apple policy, it's a standard policy throughout the industry. But since you don't like what you perceive to be Apple's policies or the prices they charge, next time you need a new computer buy a different product.

And before you rant about what I'm saying to you please READ IT first. I don't save my information to my hard drive AT ALL EVER. I have a stick in my usb drive from the minute I boot up to the minute I shut down. When I create something I don't want seen, I save directly to the stick and use it as a secondary drive. When I use sites to access my bank accounts and investing, I never let them store my login or password and I clean my cache.

So to answer your question as clearly as I can: If I were in your situation today and had to surrender my hard drive because it died, NO it would not be a problem for me. I would not need to wipe it out first, or be concerned about someone getting my personal information or feel badly about surrendering it for a new one. Why? Because my drive is clean. I Don't store anything on it that can't be shared. I save all of my personal data and pictures on a stick.

"t broke and now you basically want a new hard drive at zero cost "

WRONG!

READ the dialogue if you're going to contribute.

"And before you rant about what I'm saying to you please READ IT first"

Ironic.

tibrix, I believe it is dangerous to put your banking info on your computer, you don't fine do it your way. I have been reading about W 10 which will be something we all will end up using unless we buy an apple and I don't know about them. W 10 is the most privacy invasive soft ware that has ever been used. It will record every key stroke, every email, all your banking and investments info you put on the PC. I think it is foolish risk your life savings. I like a bank that I can walk into, see familiar faces and call me if there are any unusual charges on my CC.

I have a lot of time on my hands today. I decided to see why T can't let go of this. (it's a philosophical/psychological interest) T has the same MO all over the internet. If anyone dares disagree the rants go on and on even when no ones responds the rants are layered. Far left values, self entitlement play a role here. Personal responsibility does not.

I was kind in my earlier in my earlier posts. But when someone throws the gauntlet down all bets are off. However I am not going to argue with someone who doesn't have the attributes or skin to take it. That would be cruel. So good luck tibbrix. Keep up the good fight for what you believe you are entitled to. Take those dogs for a walk, enjoy the fresh air, maybe they won't knock over your laptop again if they get some exercise.

watchmelol: "It's different when I wish to keep responding to a topic aka, 'cant let go of this'."

Oh, okay. Got it.

FYI: there is absolutely no correlation between dogs getting walks and not pulling computers off coffee tables.

tibrix, I believe it is dangerous to put your banking info on your computer...

From what I can tell, there is nothing dangerous at all about it, considering a few of these folks here think people should just hand their hard drives over to Apple and "every other company in the industry".

My whole POINT here is that it is not safe to just hand your hard drive to strangers, so it is not reasonable for Apple to expect its customers to do that with a "You can trust us" explanation..or make the customer pay for their own hard drive if they are not comfortable giving Apple their hard drive with all their info. on it.

oh brother, give it up finally would ya!

lukkiirish: "Its different when I don't want to give it up and want to respond too!"

oh, okay. Got it. Someone must be forcing lukkiirish to keep coming back to this thread. More irony.

Lol. I love people who are responding chastising another for not letting it go.

Anyway, message to everyone but lukkiirish, Lindsey, and watchmelol: Be aware that, if you need a new hard drive from Apple - and some here say every computer company doest this - you have to either give them your old hard drive or pay them to keep it.

Oh, lukki, FYI: The bill for the new hard drive and labor: $142, which I fully expected to be charged, to pay, and gladly paid. NO clue at all how you and lindsey both got "I didn't want pay for the repair and the new hard drive from" "regarding the old hard drive, I didn't want to pay $50 for a hard drive I already bought, paid for, and owned."

But who am I to judge another's reading comprehension.

Yes and be aware too that if you badger a company hard enough they will let you off just to get rid of you....and then of course it's only right to go b*tch about it on a forum and make a fool of yourself. There, I said it. Carry on Tibbrix, as I'm sure you will!!!! Good grieve you're relentless

oh wait! I get it, you just need to have the last word, well if that's what will work, then please go for it it's all yours!

I've tried to read all of the posts and, quite frankly, I don't understand why everyone is so angry about this post. As I understand it, this was a NON warranty repair and Tribbix paid out of pocket for the cost of a new drive and the labor to install the new drive. Why can't she ask that her old drive be returned to her? (If this was a warranty repair, I get why the company would require keeping the old one as a condition of giving a new drive. But I do think Apple should have a way to erase the old drives like they do iPhones.)

So........what's everyone arguing about? Am I to understand it is industry practice for a computer company's repair unit to keep old drives when performing non-warranty work and only give it back if the owner pays an additional fee for a drive they already purchased? I feel like I'm missing something??

So are you saying that if I take a computer in for repair, I should remove the hard drive so that people working on it can't access my info? Or is there some OTHER reason why I can't exchange my non-working hard drive for a working one at a discount... Could you not have ordered a new hard drive online?. My son did and no trade in was necessary.

Sure a whole lot of curious views and expectations expressed here.

Lindsey_CA, message me with contact info if you want me to answer your questions. No sense standing on the curb and trying to talk over the noise of a mob.

" mob."

Let's be gentle and kind with each other even if we disagree. I'm not a mob. Incendiary stuff isn't casting light, it's casting heat.

It's good to be passionate but this is only some computer stuff, not even any of the real hot button topics.

We're all going to be together here for a number of years.

redcurls, my understanding is that, at least with a Mac, if you take your broken hard drive out of your machine, which you can do, then take the computer in to Apple to have a new hard drive installed, Apple will charge you an additional $50 for having kept the broken hard drive.

That is precisely the issue I brought up here. I do not understand why lukki, et al, have accused me of wanting a free anything, esp. since I've said here I fully expected to pay for the new hard drive and the labor to install it, that I DID pay for them ($140), but simply that I didn't want to hand my old hard drive over to Apple because it is full of my passwords, etc., and I need it to transfer info. onto the new hard drive. But neither did I want to pay $50 to keep the hard drive I already owned and had bought and paid for already. I don't know how they go from my paying $140 for the new hard drive, paying $1200 for the new computer with the original hard drive in it, and not wanting to pay an additional $50 charge for keeping that hard drive included in the $1200 computer I bought and owned...to "not wanting to pay anything for the new hard drive" and "shaking down a company for a discount or freebie."

So keeping your broken hard drive at home when you take your computer in to have the new one installed won't matter. Apple will just charge you the $50 fee for keeping your old hard drive, which seems to me you already bought, you own, and is your property. I think it is just a bizarre policy.

But again, had Apple offered to copy my hard drive onto a flash drive for me to use to install the info. onto my new hard drive I had just bought from them, AND had they wiped the broken hard drive in front of me and shown me it was wiped, I would have had no problem letting them keep the broken hard drive. But they expect their customers to simply hand over info.-laden hard drives, which seems very reckless for a computer company considering the security issues involved with doing that.

I also have no idea what a few here got so nasty about this. I was simply trying to warn others that this policy exists. They chastise me for not being aware of it; they chastise me for bringing it to the attention of others so others are aware of it. As Taylor Swift sings, "Haters gonna hate, hate, hate..."

tibbrix - I'm definitely not technically oriented so pardon my question here.

If your hard drive is broken is it usually possible to transfer the data? So far I've been lucky and neither DH nor I have experienced this. We buy new computers when the old ones become really dated and my son removes the hard drives and destroys them so that we can then recycle the hardware.

maire_cat, if it's smashed to smithereens, then no, you would not be able to retrieve data, which is why you will hear people say the only save "old" hard drive is one that has had a hammer taken to it. My independent Mac guy should be able to get data off of my drive. We shall see. If he can't, he can't and since there would be nothing I can do about it, I won't worry about it. However, don't ever take for granted that, because a drive is "broken", info. can't be retrieved. Chances are it can be.

I worked, briefly, for a forensic computer detective, so I've seen, and used, the equipment that is out there to retrieve hard-drive data, and I'm sure it's been hugely improved since that time.