Thanks so much for the suggestions. I added some leaf mulch today just to see how it would look and it actually looks really great. I guess in my effort to mulch, I just mimicked how nature would fill in the bare ground of a real woodland! No wonder the leaf mulch seems to look "right." I'm sure the plants will like it too. It's interesting that you mentioned the Dicentra eximia/Fringed Bleeding heart because I was looking at the Bleeding Heart today and thought its leaves looked unusual. The nursery tag says Dicentra spectabilis but the leaves look more like a Dicentra eximia. It's possible the nursery put a spectabilis tag on an eximia I suppose. I didn't know that Dicentra eximia doesn't go dormant in the summer -- thanks for the info! We have a pink Dicentra spectabilis that goes dormant in the summer but the "Alba" is new, so we haven't seen it through a summer yet. Maybe we're in luck and the new "Alba" spectabilis is actually an eximia. I was planning on planting some ferns around it so that when it goes dormant the ferns will cover the fading foliage, but maybe now I won't need to. Wow, Cardinal plant--it must be beautiful. We have violets popping up all over now too (in our lawn), so I'm transplanting some of them to the mini "woodland". Thanks again for everyone's help!

Hi. What a coincidence: I just joined GardenWeb because I'm making a shade garden myself at the back of my yard, due to start this weekend. It's not quite as big as yours - 60' x 200' is A LOT of garden! With ash, hickory, walnut? Sounds wonderful. I have a large lot myself, but the shady area is only a small portion of land at the back that has several large ash and maple trees that make some very deep shade in the summer. We've been in the house since January before last, and our previous owner wasn't a gardener either. I've already done some research on shade gardens, and here's what I've come up with. First of all, do some planning. Are you interested in flowers, or leaf textures? Most shade plants don't flower nearly as well as full sun plants. Overall, I'm going with differnt textures myself, trying for a calm, quiet, cool place to relax, very natural, almost wild, away from the summer sun. I'm concentrating on native shade plants, stuff like monkshood, solomon's seal, cardinal flower, celandine poppy and maidenhair fern because these usually do better than other non-native species, they are more drought tolerant, and less invasive. Also, I'm leaving a downed tree along the west edge of the wooded area because it fell in such a way as to make a natural barrier between the shade garden and my kids' playset, and a beautifully curved bench to sit on as well, just the right height and width. I just finished cutting off all of the branches and the tops, leaving only the trunk. The stump is almost eight feet tall, so I've planted morning glory all around the base, so it will cover the stump with a mass of leaves and flowers this summer. At the end of the year I'll decide whether or not to leave the stump. You do need to ammend the soil. Everything I've read on the subject says that most shade plants need good loose soil with plenty of leaf mold and humus, good mulch and a fair amount of moisture too - the trees soak up huge amounts of water. But, you only need to ammend in the area that you are planting in. Some basic long-release fertilizer should do the trick, followed by mulching after the plants are in. Also, pay attention to the soil's acidity. Some shade/ part shade shrubs, like rhodedendrons and azaelias, need acidic soil. From the sound of it, you already should have a fair amount of leaves, sticks and stuff that you can use as mulch. I have a fairly large area (for me!) that I'm dealing with, and I'm going to do it in sections: dig it up, ammend the soil, design a scheme for that particular section, plant and mulch before moving on to the next one. I think that this will mot only not kill me within the first week (!), it will also mean that different sections of the shade garden will have different plants and shrubs, and therefore different textures, colors and "feel", for lack of a better word. Also it'll be more natural, I hope. I'm going to put a flagstone path around the outer edge of the wooded area, with a sun and partial shade perennial border in between, and the paths under the trees will all be wood mulch, so its quiet when people walk there. I'm going to plant things like yarrow and mint along the edges of the border path and let them grow so that when you walk, you bruise their leaves with your feet and get that beautiful herb kind of scent. Then, between the border and the shade garden I'm going to plant a line evergreens, probably juniper, so that the shade garden is more enclosed, kind of secret. It should have the effect of making the shade garden quieter, and greener, and the evergreens will make a good backdrop for the plants and shrubs on both sides of the edge border. Also (phew!), My wife wants to have either a large patio or a small gazebo under the trees as well. So far I'm leaning towards a patio of natural stone, to keep the 'wild' character under the trees, as it were. One of the ideas I also had is to plant early bulbs, crocuses, daffodils and maybe tulips under the trees. These all bloom before most trees leaf in the spring, so leaf shade is not a problem for them. This should give me a lovely splash of color under the trees, for a month or so before the native plants take off. I'll be planting these in the fall, so I'll have to carefully mark the areas that I want them in, once I've planted the other plants and shrubs. Getting a chipper would be a good idea if you have a lot of branches. Or, if you aren't too fussy about having a compost heap (like me!) you could layer the sticks in a bin with grass clippings and leaves instead, wait a year, turning it over once a month or so, giving it a sprinkle once in a while, and you'll have some great compost/mulch the spring after. You should save all your dead leaves and grass clippings for compost and mulch too. Rotten stumps make good mulch as well. I've got a huge old stump of a willow tree at the east edge of my yard, a real eyesore, almost four feet high and as wide across, but it just comes away in my hands, so I spread it on my bulb bed down the side of the house. I've got so much that I'm going to use it in my shade garden too. In terms of shade plants to use, try this: go to google and search for "shade plants". There are a number of nurseries around the country that specialize in them, and some of them have shade garden packs that give you several different plants, and suggestions for arranging them. Prices of these packs range from $500.00 to $200.00. In terms of ground cover, I have ground ivy that's been established for years. The stuff is very tough, grows quickly, has nice shiny, sculpted leaves and pretty purple flowers in the spring, but it's horribly invasive, chocking out everything. It's taken over almost a third of my lawn, and it'll be years before I can get it all out. Again, you probably want to go with something local. Can you tell that I LOVE gardening? Hope this helps!

I am always here, just feel foolish because I have yet to master the posting picture thing. My goal for this summer is to post my pictures. I am over whelmed at how prolific my gardens are. I have hosta that are over three feet across and they can't be five years old. I am in central MN just west on Mpls. I garden under 100 yr. old burr oaks so no I do not mulch, nature does that for me. The leaf drop each fall is sufficient. I also have a few ground covers slowly giving me a "living mulch". I am such an amature and have experimented with what works for me when I read what the master gardeners advise. My successes are not always "recommended" practice. I actually rake out some of my beds, because I don't like the look of the leaves and I know they harbor slugs. I am trying to resist raking and am discovering about now I can't see the leaves anymore anyway. My gardens are full to the point no dirt shows through much anymore. I have many, many stepping stones I made and set around to protect my plants as I stomp around to weed,and to add color , whimsey and interest to my "green" shady gardens. They can no longer be seen to the casual visitor to my yard. I am full up. I have never used any chemical weed control like preen in my beds because I was encouraging nature to help me fill them in. I have columbine,solomans seal,jacks,etc. that I did not want to inhibit. If anyone wants me to e-mail some pics I do know how to do that. I spend my days thinning and weeding. Yesterday I pulled out five, five gallon buckets of what I was told is wild geranium. It is done blooming and I don't want it to compete all summer for moisture with my more desirable plants. It is invasive and a weed in most opinions, but any color is welcome for as long as it lasts. (except dandylions). All my pulling doesn't irraticate it so I keep pulling knowing next year it will return. I find invasives hiding as I go and add them to my buckets. I think I answered all the questions. I will try and be quicker to respond. I am here every day. I am a tish intimidated because I am not a pureist in this woodland gardening. Shade gardening is where I am probably more matched, and I am on that site daily too.

karate Sorry. I don't know how to post pictures. Maybe soon? I have asked a young person to show me the ropes. Ha. I'm in OH. Our woods is small but it has always been a mess. And we've lived here 20 years! The job just seemed overwhelming. I've had it cleared a few times, and it reverts to junk in a years time. Poison ivy, grapevine, and lots of black cherry ... and pear. Ugh. One part of the woods is about 100' x 25' on the side yard. The first 50' overlooks the neighbors roofline. (I want to block that with hemlock and remove the blue spruce that were put in 5 years ago.) The the next 50' abutts deeper woods that is "visually" ours. Behind that first 100'? is another piece of land running another 100' x 50' sited on a slope. That also abutts woods that we "visually" own. We are starting to work on the slope now. Up on top is a big wild cherry that will stay, hickories, and a few other nice trees. The rest? are big old scotch pine and austrian pine leftover from a Xmas tree farm years ago. HUGE. And not my favorite. Now there are dozens of pine volunteers on the slope that are approaching 8'? high. I'm hesitant to clear them ... because I don't have a replacement plan, yet. For the time being, they give some structure to the slope. Otherwise, there is a noxious weed rose running all through the slope, more poison ivy, thistle.. BUT ... there's crown vetch, wild impatiens, and other weeds that I think I like, for now. Plan is to edit it day by day. I have real good yard help right now, or this project would not be on its way. What a relief. Finally. I will definitely be back here to post pics ... as soon as my young tutor gets me on track. Re forsythia? That's similar to my dilemma with the volunteer pines. I don't want them long term, but for now? They at least take the eye off the solid weed hill. Once we get a little further along on the slope by removing the wild rose bushes? I may consult a landscaper. Maybe have some BIG flat rocks layed into the slope? Hemlocks along the property line where we need some screening. Get some Maxima rhodos in? Have you considered some sweetbay magnolia? or the native rhodo "Maxima" that blooms in late June/July? The trick is doing the clearing ... and THEN getting a plan into action so that the whole area doesn't revert again. It's going to be a test, for sure. I'll try to get some pictures posted in the next couple of days. ML