karate

That looks like a wonderful piece of land you've got there.

I'm not one the the resident experts here, but I'm interested in your project as it looks a little similar to mine. You seem to have more nice big trees than I do though. I hope you get some input.

We decided to clear our small patch of woods of ... poison ivy, wild grape vine, black cherry saplings, assorted weeds, and misplaced shrubs. What a difference it makes!

While doing the clearing ... we found many tulip poplar and sassafras saplings, small oak and maple trees, hickorys, and a dogwood. I am so happy.

I also had some spruces removed and pear trees that were spreading everywhere. Relief to have them gone. Keeping the white pines and adding to the hemlocks.

Still working on this project now ... but my intent is to remove the junk and keep the found treasures. My aim is to transition to a native wooded area of sorts. A work in progress .....

Once we are further along, I hope to have a tree person remove a few bigger sick spruce and then have him leave/deliver some good chips/mulch to hold the weeds back.

It looks to me like you could consider clearing your forest floor of the junk. Identify the native saplings and keep those. Then perhaps do a google search of native shrubs for your area for the understory. I haven't gotten that far myself yet. Rhodos, azaleas, pagoda dogwood, bottlebrush buckeye, oakleaf hydrangea? I don't know yet.

Good luck to you. That looks like a great piece of property. Lucky you across from a Federal forest! I'd take your cue from that but clear out the much of the natural debris on the floor, if it were me.

I hope you get some helpful feedback.

ML

Thanks the reply ML! Thanks for you compliments! I love my property to and I think it has a lot of potential but it is so full with invasive plants and undesirable native plants (poison Ivy). I am very lucky to live across the street from the tree farm as I have a great example to model mine off of!

Your description of your woods sound almost identical to mine! We also have the same goals. Do you have any pictures of your land? That would be interesting to see so we could compare. Are you located close to Maryland? That would explain all the similar plants that we both have.

I will clear out the underbrush as soon as I get some native plants to replace them with (Service Berries, Dogwood, maymaple, ect). I'm still unsure if I should clear out all the forsythia that is growing. They are so cool and stunning in the spring but then again they are not native!

Looking forward to future advice/feedback/replies!

TJ

karate

Sorry. I don't know how to post pictures. Maybe soon? I have asked a young person to show me the ropes. Ha.

I'm in OH. Our woods is small but it has always been a mess. And we've lived here 20 years! The job just seemed overwhelming. I've had it cleared a few times, and it reverts to junk in a years time. Poison ivy, grapevine, and lots of black cherry ... and pear. Ugh.

One part of the woods is about 100' x 25' on the side yard. The first 50' overlooks the neighbors roofline. (I want to block that with hemlock and remove the blue spruce that were put in 5 years ago.) The the next 50' abutts deeper woods that is "visually" ours. Behind that first 100'? is another piece of land running another 100' x 50' sited on a slope. That also abutts woods that we "visually" own.

We are starting to work on the slope now. Up on top is a big wild cherry that will stay, hickories, and a few other nice trees. The rest? are big old scotch pine and austrian pine leftover from a Xmas tree farm years ago. HUGE. And not my favorite. Now there are dozens of pine volunteers on the slope that are approaching 8'? high. I'm hesitant to clear them ... because I don't have a replacement plan, yet. For the time being, they give some structure to the slope. Otherwise, there is a noxious weed rose running all through the slope, more poison ivy, thistle.. BUT ... there's crown vetch, wild impatiens, and other weeds that I think I like, for now. Plan is to edit it day by day.

I have real good yard help right now, or this project would not be on its way. What a relief. Finally.

I will definitely be back here to post pics ... as soon as my young tutor gets me on track.

Re forsythia? That's similar to my dilemma with the volunteer pines. I don't want them long term, but for now? They at least take the eye off the solid weed hill. Once we get a little further along on the slope by removing the wild rose bushes? I may consult a landscaper. Maybe have some BIG flat rocks layed into the slope? Hemlocks along the property line where we need some screening. Get some Maxima rhodos in?

Have you considered some sweetbay magnolia? or the native rhodo "Maxima" that blooms in late June/July?

The trick is doing the clearing ... and THEN getting a plan into action so that the whole area doesn't revert again. It's going to be a test, for sure.

I'll try to get some pictures posted in the next couple of days.

ML

karate - I guess I'm missing what is "natural" about the tree farm that your property doesn't have. Visiting any "natural" woods where I live means finding "prickers, poison ivy, vines, weedy grasses, unknown weeds" in addition to the various native and non-native species of trees, shrubs, and herbaceous plants in various portions of it. (We all wish there weren't the non-natives.)

Am I right in guessing that you want something more like a manicured arboretum than a natural woodland setting? I'm just trying to understand what you are asking about.

FataMorgana

I know where you are coming from, I have been 25 yrs plus trying to rescue my small woods from non-native honeysuckle and euonymous. I have mostly ripped it all out, but I still have to be diligent as it still wants to come back in spots--thanks to the 2 acres behind me that are loaded with them still, and the birds that want to scatter the seeds. I have also been fighting poison ivy, which I am allergic to, and I don't really care that it is a native and food plant for the birds. If they want it that bad they can go down to the woods south of me and eat their fill of berries. I want it gone in my garden.

I am aiming somewhere between the wild, natural woods, which can be an unkempt tangle you can't get thru without a machete, at least here in the Ozarks, and a managed area with trails, native trees, shrubs and wildflowers. Managed does not mean manicured, but keeping as natural an area as possible. It means not cleaning up all the deadfall, only that which is dangerous and obstructs the trails. It means leaving dead trees and snags for nesting birds, while at the same time clearing out "widowmakers" and minimally trimming trees; making sure it doesn't become a one-species forest of sumac or juniper; keeping a brush pile for small wildlife, leaving a patch of stinging nettles for red admiral butterfly caterpillars, plenty of Virginia creeper and violets for other butterfly larvae, etc. Leaves fall where they may and make a deep duff on the forest floor for native wildflowers and insects that depend on them, and vice versa, to thrive in, not raked and cleaned out..

It does mean clearing out noxious weeds which would overwhelm desirable species, keeping everything from being totally smothered in grape vines and sweet autumn clematis.

A small managed woods is a friendly place for wildlife and people alike, but it is not "manicured" with beds and perennials, or mowed between the trees like a park. If you want a true forest, there are many National Forest and park areas you can visit with vast acreages for all sorts of wildlife, plant, animal, reptile and insect. But if you look carefully, even National Forests are "managed", though on a much larger scale than a small backyard acreage.

ML- I have not considered many plants other than just the native ones growing in my yard and the service berries and Dogwoods that I'm getting. I also planted a border of American Holly to provide privacy and reduce unwanted foot traffic from school kids taking shortcuts through my yard. I figure that I'm not quite ready to plant new plants in yet. I want to figure out what I have (I'm finding lots of surprises like tree saplings, and bushes I didn't know were there) before I add more plants into the mix. I also want to get rid of the invasives so they can't compete with my new plants.

FataMorgana- Thanks for you input. When I said tree farm I should have said forest or woods. It was a tree farm (20ish years ago) but the the Federal Government bought it and they are changing it into a wildlife habitat type deal.
About the underbrush. I understand the a natural forest has prickers, poison ivy, vines, weedy grasses, unknown weeds. But in my case the vines are invasive honeysuckle and the prickers are a combo of Japanese Wineberry and Multiflora rose. The grasses and poison ivy are plants that i want out so I can plant more desirable plants like maymaples, trillums, and violets.
I think what I want is a natural woodland and setting. Similar to what mosswitch posted after your post.

Mosswitch- I think that you, ML, and I all have a similar goals for our yards. Do you have any pictures of your woods? It would be interesting to compare. I'm not sure how similar Maryland forest's are to Ozark forest's but we are in a similar zone so I would guess pretty similar. I too am also leaving 2 snag trees and one girdled norway maple that is on its way to becoming a snag. I have already seen 2 different types of woodpeckers or maybe a male and female on my snags! What would you do if you had forsythia in your yard? Destroy them because they are not native of let them be because they are not invasive?

Thanks for so many replies! This is so helpful!

TJ

Suggest you work on invasive vines and understory plants before going after large invasive trees.

I do have forsythia in my yard. I love its spring cheerfulness! I keep it to a single bush, it needs full sun to bloom well and there is no room for it in my small woodland. If there is room on the edges of your woods, I wouldn't be opposed to keeping a few. They do get really big, however! There are pictures of my garden and some of the woods on my blog, you are welcome to take a look! I haven't posted for a while as it has been a really busy summer, but I'll be back at it soon!

Here is a link that might be useful: Welcome to Chaos

karate, I will be doing something similar with a sloping wooded area in my back yard. I want some controlled, or managed wildness and to promote native birds.

Consider some winter reading on native plants of Maryland. That will give you an idea of some things to add. I've added a link for you below. You can 'google' Maryland native plants and wile away a few hours.

Here is a link that might be useful: Native plants of Maryland

Boy do I recognize that look!! Been working on a similar project in Oklahoma for a couple of years.... LOTS of clean up.. hauling off the dead limbs and trees makes it SOOO much nicer. So many beautiful trees, lost in the tangle! Did lots of chain-sawing to uncrowd, get the conflicting or leaning or undesireable trees out. ROUND UP FOR POISON IVY in a pump-up sprayer is a first step. You can be very selective how you spray, and just hit the poison ivy. We had a sea of it chest high, and a vine six inches in diameter heading up one tall cottonwood. Two years of periodic spraying, and I've got it pretty much beat back, although it will be a never-ending battle. People are amazed what a beautiful woods it has become. Have planted many redwood trees as blooming understory, dogwood may work better for you. I like forsythia, but since it takes root everywhere it touches, I can see how it could get out of control. If there is enough moisture, I love woodland ferns. We can't pull that off here. I planted some yew for winter color. It's a work in process!, but I love my backyard a million times better than before all that work!!

After you've scrambled through the undergrowth...

If you think of the features you love to visit, and why, and when. Then make a trail to them.

Doing this gives you a management tool. You can take tools 'easily' along a track and keep watch over incipient weed problems. You can also stay on top of pruning - doing it before it becomes a major de-limbing exercise.

I would advocate for a petrol-driven wood chipper of grunty capability so you can turn your branch thinnings into cover for the track/s. Quiet. Moisture holding. Cheap, and definitely renewable.

I don't know what your 'bush' environment is like. Here, a light well allows long-dormant seeds or fresh arrivals to start up. A mini-jungle of pioneer plant diversity which allows a range of other species to be active while the rest of the 'bush' ages.

You might also choose to exploit an ephemeral wet spot as a 'destination' and a place to do enhancement plantings such as ferns or spring plants.

I'd also recommend very strongly making a map of the plot, noting the species you currently have, marking in any tracks and particular weed problems. And keeping a diary, year on year.

I use my garden map to stay reminded about pruning regimes, compost spreading - and areas I need to visit more often.

And, where you can, if you're so minded, - treasure the character of visible roots, trunks and branches. They'll likely add to your enjoyment.