Except for the range being a little close to the dishwasher, I don't see any problem with the plan. I like the fridge, pantry and microwave over by themselves. It makes a great snack area!

The sink is close enough to be convenient and if you don't have the dishwasher and oven open at the same time...I don't think you'll have any problem with this layout.

The access to the mudroom is fine. My only concern would be, is this your only access to the rest of the living area? Having a short walk to the mudroom is great....as long as everyone coming into the house doesn't have to cut through the kitchen :)

I've nothing constructive to add (though your fridge-to-sink-to-prep-to-stove flow (Marcoloflo?) looks subject to at least provisional approval), but I definitely have to thank you for this post. I've been in a deep, dark funk about the misfit layout we've developed, questioning how bad the bad is--will knives leap from the block and impale us? will some extra steps and a second sink out of synch materially shorten our lives? If so, how much, and is the time and expense put into things thus far worth setting aside.

While I guess one shouldn't build in problems when it isn't necessary, I wish I could better quantify what happens when the sink is One Step Too Far. It's great to be reminded that many things work for many reasons.

I don't get the impression that the "work triangle" is sacred around here anymore. It's more about not interrupting sink-prep counter-range. Poor fridge is often left out.

I might put the dishwasher to the left of the sink because I'd probably keep the glassware/dishes/flatware near the fridge and MW and it would make for easier unloading.

One more observation... If there's a good chance kiddos will be running in and out between play room and deck, I might move the doorway between kitchen and playroom a couple feet toward the beverage fridge if the door swings into the opening.

And another... we can't see what your aisle widths are. I think a minimum of 42" would be recommended between the island and the table and the same for island to fridge.

I have a thing about symmetry, and so one thing jumps out at me. The upper cabinets flanking the range are different sizes. I would make those two uppers match in size. I'd also make the range hood 6" wider then the range. Not only for the solid kitchen advice that I learned on GW about it being better functionally, but also because I just think it looks better aesthetically to have the hood slightly bigger as well.

What are your isle widths?

Keep the DW where it is and have dish storage across the aisle. This puts the dishes where they need to be - next to the dining area.

Move the range "down" so the range is not "lined up with" or "overlapping" aisle space with an open DW door. This way, someone standing at the range won't risk backing into an open DW door when moving around with a hot pot/pan and/or when turning to drain pasta, etc.

Now, you have the DW and dish storage on the dining side of the Kitchen and the Prep and Cooking Zones on the other side. Someone setting the table while dinner is being prepared will not get in the way of the cook(s). Ditto someone cleaning up and/or loading/unloading the DW.

Actually, the Mudroom entrance does not direct people through the primary work zones - on the contrary, it directs them away (unless they want to go to the dining area or play room, but nothing is perfect!)

Normally, I like the refrigerator on the perimeter so that it's easily accessed from the Kitchen, the dining area, and outsiders looking for a snack w/o anyone getting each others' way. However, I'm not sure it can easily be done with some of your "wants" (e.g., near the Mudroom door) without the island becoming a "barrier island" for the Prep & Cooking Zones or causing a lot of zone-crossing. At least having the MW near the refrigerator will help keep snackers out of the kitchen for the most part. But, it will be a "hike" for someone preparing a meal to use the MW - but it won't be too bad since your kitchen isn't huge.

The biggest thing is that I wish you had more counterspace to the left of the sink for prepping. The right will be for cleanup b/c the DW is on that side. You should have at least 36" (42" would be better) on the prep (left) side of the sink. Is it possible to bump out the dining area a couple of feet? Then, you could add another foot or two to the island and have a nice prep space.

Along with the above concern about prep space, think about having more than one person prepping and cooking. Do you have enough room in the kitchen to accommodate multiple cooks as your children begin to help you in the kitchen? I'm asking b/c right now I think the answer is, "no". With all three primary work zones located in one fairly small section, I think you will find yourselves butting heads (or other parts of the anatomy!) when trying to work in this kitchen.

.

Work Zones vs Work Triangle:

Death to the Work Triangle??

Ok. I have nothing to add to your layout discussion, but kudos to you for delivery! The Day I Forgot My Beverage and Had to Get Up...very, very funny.

I actually think if you just move the range to the right so the person at the sink doesn't butt butts with the person at the range, you're good. I think if you could find a way to move the dining table over to allow the island to be as long as the window wall cabinets, you'd be golden as this would give you more prep space. As buehl stated, what you have is fine for now but, when the kids are older, it doesn't give you much room for them to help you in the kitchen. And it would be a shame to make it harder for them to learn to love cooking. Fridge placement is fine to me. My own fridge is out of the triangle and it isn't an issue.

"will knives leap from the block and impale us? will some extra steps and a second sink out of synch materially shorten our lives? If so, how much, and is the time and expense put into things thus far worth setting aside."

yes, all of these things and more will happen to you. Don't worry about time and expense - by the time you're done you'll be retired and so poor you won't give a darn anymore. By then you'll be grateful for the SS pittance to help cover the cost of your meds (or booze) whichever is the best at dulling the pain and blocking your memory.

What are the measurements? It might seem big enough now with 2 little ones, but they grow. Those that aren't here yet will grow too. Kids often have friends that eat over... I remember going about a yr with at least 1 more kid at the dinner table than I bought shoes for...

They grow and that means more space is needed, more food needs bought, stored and cooked. that's more groceries to bring in (I do hate that part too). That also = more trash, more dishes to do, more dw loads to load and unload. More forks.

Addressing all of the question marks...

(1) Yes this is the only access from entrance to the living room / bedrooms / bathrooms. I'm sitting here looking at my previous build kitchen right now and trying to remember a time in the past three years when anyone traversed through the kitchen in a way that made me shake my spoon at them. To be fair, my memory is terrible, but I generally do remember the moments in which I felt someone had done me wrong (husband can verify this).

(2) Knives won't leap from a block if you lock them securely in a drawer. :D LOVE my knife drawer! Tuck one of these into a drawer and never look back: http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/9942640/?catalogId=80&sku=9942640

(3) Aisle widths are 3'3" in this design. I'm 100% open to adjusting them.

(4) Dining area could be bumped out, and I really like that idea. I've always felt like this current dining area is a smidgen tight. I might also increase the width as well. Could add some windows on the east/west walls then and get some nice multi-directional sunlight in the space. (Please no one suggest a banquette. Being a human who has sat in banquettes before, I have no desire to bring that torture device into my own home, Susan Susanka be damned. I'd rather sit on a baguette.)

(4) I'm interested in ways we can make the kitchen 2-chef-friendly within the available footprint. Right now, when my son "helps" me, he works on the bar-stool side of the island (because I get him all set up w/ his "little helper" tower and all the tools/ingredients he needs and then clean up after him-- note to any childless couples following the discussion: parenthood is not a time-saving endeavor).

(5) I'm relieved to hear that the work triangle is not so sacred in recent years. :)

Moving the dining area a bit farther from the kitchen would allow you to do something like this. A longer island even though I moved it out of the mudroom pathway a bit. I also widened the aisle to more easily fit multiple workers in the kitchen.

Just measured the aisles in my current house -- 42" and it's quite comfortable. But the space from island counter to dining table edge is 47" and feels a smidgen tight (in my current kitchen the island is a wedge shape which is admittedly too large for me to clean the center of without reeeeally stretching ---see photo.)

Arial- Are you SURE you want everyone (even groups of people visiting, holiday parties, etc.....coming into your house THROUGH the kitchen and in front of your fridge?

I think you should post the rest of your floor plan. You might get some really good ideas on how to manage that a little more effectively :)

So here's where I'm at with that... I'm a little gun shy after the response to my post last week. All the feedback I got was so adamant that I change my needs/preferences/lifestyle to fit into some arbitrary mold (and spend a lot of money / square footage to fit into that mold).

So yes. Let's see. I would like a way for guests to enter my house through the mudroom. I don't see the problem with them entering into the kitchen, in general (kitchen/dining will have wood floors, living/sunroom will have carpet so they aren't good entry rooms). I am having a hard time visualizing what's wrong with people walking in front of my fridge?

All jokes aside, I AM interested in hearing about the pitfalls of having people pass through this walkway. But I think I just need someone to tell me a story like I'm a kindergartner for me to really visualize the problem. :)

Here is the floorplan, as it is currently drafted. I am wide open to thoughtful suggestions! I really do appreciate the time people take to type up helpful responses. I know you could be doing something more fulfilling than typing at an Ungrateful Internet Person! :)

(The kitchen in the very first post is a more recent draft than the one in this floorplan.)

Good lord.. just had to second third or whatever.. just move the stove and BAM! yer done!

That was easy .. lol

Maybe my concern comes from my own galley kitchen. Far from a perfect layout and people always seem to be walking though it. I can't imagine it being on the path from the front door. It's bad enough trying to cook/bake with just the kitchen crowd in the way!

I don't think this is "the answer" to your layout, but just want to illustrate an idea that let's people enter the house and then wander back into the kitchen....to inconveniently block your work areas :)

What I dislike about this layout is guests either enter through a long narrow hallway OR the carpeted sunroom (whose sole purpose in my life is for toy clutter and sewing clutter---stuff I'm trying to hide! I know I said I don't need to impress guests, but we don't need to parade them through our messiest room either. ;)

Arial- It's your home and you can do whatever you want. And I mean that sincerely, not being snarky. But if you've come to the forum and want advice, that's my biggest concern.

And I thought you wanted kids to go in the sunroom, to avoid mud in the living room. Isn't that why you didn't like the living room in front?

I'm not saying these are better or worse, just different suggestions. I'm sure others will have better ones....but since I posted these on the Smaller Homes forum, I thought we could see what you don't like and move on to what might work.

Headed out for ice cream, after that I'll take a look at your suggestions! I genuinely do want suggestions and don't want to seem ungrateful. It is just hard to visualize a new space from 2-D to real life. I think I'm a little scared to deviate from the things I like in my current house, mainly due to fear of the unknown. :-)

One way to help you move away from fear of the unknown is a crash course in making it feel familiar. If you can I'd visit family/friends' houses and see what their entrances, flow etc are like. Look at houses online as well. Practice going through the space in your mind, doing the things you would do. Read about what changes in flow have/haven't done for people. In other words study each choice until it feels non threatening to you. Then factor in family's needs etc. That's the plan that will work for you. And even if you don't change much, the exercise will grow new brain pathways. :) Warning disclaimer. You will likely become TKO (Totally Kitchen Obsessed). I know I did. And loving every minute. :@)

One observation. If there's a beautiful view out the master bedroom window, you might position the bed on the closet wall or the bathroom wall so you can take in that view from bed.

Is there such thing as the Ideal Galley Kitchen? I'd be curious to see it for inspiration.

Also, I think the two kitchens I most admire are my mom's and my friend's. They are both basically U-shaped with an island and the path past the kitchen passes by the island seating, not through any work area.

But I'm seeing a theme in the basic layout. Something to explore. :)

I hadn't realized your front door was there. You must be a better manager of the sink area than I am! "Hi, here's my sponge. And the little bowl of vinegar I'm hoping to trap fruit flies in. And the compost bucket. And a couple of freezer bags that need rinsing. Make yourself at home!"

I like the u-shaped kitchens with the path along the edge, too-- I bet you can do that if that's what you like.

LOL lori! Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. I'm an at-home mom and I do keep my kitchen pretty close to spotless -- or at least nice enough that I'd never be embarrassed by it. (And a tip -- I keep my scrub brush in the dishwasher. That way it gets sanitized more often AND is out of sight.)

Meanwhile every horizontal surface in my bedroom, bathroom, and closet has a thick layer of clothes. :D

Lavendar -- do you think it's possible to have this style of kitchen in that basic floorplan that I have going on, but without the entry becoming a long lonely hallway? :)

I like that tip on the scrub brush! I will remember that. Thanks. BTW, I really like your current kitchen. Very pretty.

Not a U-shape...and you still walk in by the fridge. But you don't HAVE to walk through that little doorway into the kitchen. Now you can 'flow' around the island, too :)

You erased my kitchen! LOL! I think I'd rather have those cabinets back and just deal with the flow issues. :P

Even if, at the end of the day, I'm right back to square one, all of this rejiggering is a good mental exercise as yeonassky pointed out. :)

Actually, I erased your beverage fridge and moved the pantry into storage by the stairs. Not that different, really. And now your view is out the windows!

Ah I see what you have in mind. Well, here's the dirty secret...I already had that storage closet mentally JAM PACKED. LOL. :) But I like this idea and am going to mentally chew on it for awhile. :)

How many of you just sit here and read the banter going back and forth and feel like a kid on the playground? lol. You just can't beat a group of people that all just love the remodel / fun of making a kitchen better.

I really like the floor plan. The only thing I would change is putting the dishwasher to the left of your sink so that it doesn't open so close to the stove.

My frig, heaven forbid, is on the opposite side of the island from my sink and stove. Ideal? No. But, it doesn't bother me and the island is close to unload the groceries. So, a few extra steps isn't a big deal.

I already had that storage closet mentally JAM PACKED. LOL

I have the same problem! See this thread :)

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3277373/arghhhhdo-i-need-more-storage-or-less-stuff?n=1

I made this one for you designsavvy.

I have no suggestions..Your floor plan and traffic patterns look roomy to me. I'm the one where my front door hits the side of my XL side by side fridge right now...and less than 6" between my sink and the other side of that monster fridge.

I was told to move my kitchen to another part of the house....which I'm not, I'm leaving it where it is......just taking out closets to move the fridge. :)

and your sense of humor is awesome!

You are a hoot, arialvetica. I love your current kitchen, but....

Oh, kitchen layout critiques are going to be so much more fun now.

I tried to give you the U-kitchen with island but didn't do a good job of it and I couldn't figure how to do it and give you the sunroom. Sorry. I flipped the front door to the other side of the porch. Maybe someone more creative than me can riff with this a bit. The aisles are wonky.

Lol, Arial.

You know.. if you turned the current house into a guest house and built a 7 bedroom mansion onto the side of it.. and moved.. wait.. that might not be in your budget.. my bad...

:P

R

I think this has the changes you wanted...no more corner pantry and slightly larger entry into kitchen.

Maybe also think about bumping dining area out more (as already suggested) and adding a window on each end?

And you may want to move the island over (just a bit) to line it up with the range wall, on the 'traffic' end.