Wow! Thanks for this. My Optima is in and I'll get to start using it in a few weeks when our remodel is done.

Wallycat, Do the tea/coffee stains come out in a longer wash? I've never had a DW that would remove those, no matter how long the wash cycle. Dodge, I think that's the learning curve I'm most concernd about mastering---how much soap. After the DW formulation changed and I had used up all of my old dw soap, I switched to buying Finish all-in-one tabs from Costco. I'm hoping I don't have to start cutting them in half, as I like the convenience of being able to just pop one in and be done with it. My mother recently was gifted with a new Kenmore DW, and she's had a hard time figuring out detergent/rinse aid. When she uses the rinse aid, she's ending up with several inches of bubbles at the bottom of the dw and she still has bubbles after running a couple quick wash (1 hour) cycles with no added detergent. She's started using the Finish all-in-one tablets and said she still has a bit of an accumulation of suds at the bottom. She's been pouring water on top of the suds and running a rinse and drain cycle to get rid of them. I don't know what to tell her, but I suggested she have a service call, since it's only a couple months old and under warranty. (We do not have hard water.) PS Dodge, I wouldn't presume to advise you whether to tell your wife to use less soap or just resign yourself to cleaning the soap dispenser every seven years. :) This post was edited by sail-away on Thu, Mar 21, 13 at 20:42

This is a two way street. The people that get all ruffled at Miele when they suggest that there might be operator error are guilty of the same behavior they're accusing Miele of. They are not considering the possibility that they or a particular use might just using the appliance improperly ! I've had almost 20 years with these machines and Miele sometimes sends out or you receive a bum steer. I've personally seen ones arrive with seized pumps or non functioning heaters - you can count them on less than one hand, but they are out there. second, Miele designs and builds one of the most advanced and highest quality units in the industry today. Like any other company, they sometimes ship a defective unit or it gets broken in transit from Germany or they just get or specify a not so good batch of parts. This does not man that they are a bad or inferior company. It does mean that THAT particular user's experience is not so rosey and like a wrecked car you can't un-wreck it. Knowing that you design and produce one of the best machines in the market it's natural for a company to take the view that if there is an initial prob. that it is operator error, especially when the data actually bears this out. Now, what this doesn't take into account is that the product might just not be the correct choice or a particular individual. i.e I just like rinsing my dishes so they don't get crusty or I like using x brand of detergent which for whatever reason doesn't work in a particular unit. (asolo - I agree with you in principle, but some combos just don't work especially in the prior generation) Or - my dishes are wet AND I refuse to use rinse aid. The prob. is big corp. brother makes NO provision whatsoever for the fact that sometimes a product is not a good fit for or able to meet the needs of some customers. For those that take umbrage at all the try this or that. Take a breath - most of these are good suggestions that have worked for people that have had problems with these in the past - sure it'd be nice to take it out of the box and have it adapt to my habits without needing to read the manual, but that isn't the case with much these days. Again - all this hopping on one leg patting one's head while tugging the left earlobe may be more than a particular customer wants or feels (s)he should have to invest in getting a tool to work for them. But, refusing to do it once you're in the game AND THEN calling the product or co.'s stuff, junk isn't quite fair. I'd advise megg not to get a Bosch - or any other Euro washer and the results are very likely to be the same. I do hope (s)he will come back and tell us what they ended up replacing the miele with and how the new unit fairs.

markdavis: "I'm in the process of researching this as well for a new Miele that will be installed next week. "Our Costco only has the finish non-quantum version. The problem that some report on these is that you can't break down the tabs and it's a lot of very strong detergent...some use it only for highly soiled loads. "I have both the finish quantum and non-quantum versions that I plan to experiment with. "I'm also looking at: - Cascade all-in-1 actionpac - Miele tabs - Method Smarty tabs - these split nicely in half, but are rated pretty low by the latest CR stuff...obviously, highly dependent on water softness." In other words, you are limiting your choices to what is on the shelf at your local supermarket. That's o.k., but it is a pretty severe limitation. "I'm also doing a lot of wine glassware, so I may end up preferring something w/glassware vs. regular loads vs. heavy soil loads. "BTW, people recommend that you scrape, but not pre-rinse, else the detergent will eat up the plates/glassware." We have VERY soft water in Portland (Oregon). That means that very aggressive dishwasher detergents will etch just about anything you put into the dishwasher. However, in our Miele dishwasher, we wash quality crystal wine stemware every night with Ecover powder dishwasher detergent. Some of our glasses have been through 2,000 or more cycles in our Miele dishwasher, without even a hint of etching. Nevertheless, our dishes come out of the dishwasher every morning spotlessly clean.